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[lostinblue]

Yeah undoubtedly they will improve that to reach a satisfactory level. See their web-browser, it was ready in time and praised for its quickness. Basically, I think it was either you got the features in this update available day 1 but not totally optimized yet, either you would have waited longer for it but with a faster use.

Although you're certainly right, they said the same with the Wii, that they had this goal of each channel taking at most 3 seconds to load, and that although that wasn't the case they'd keep improving them with that goal in mind.

Never happened. Nintendo doesn't have the best track record on that/they have a lot of catching up to do.

I hope they do though.

 

[Van Owen]

Where did you read that ?.

From the tear down last night.

I feel more and more vindicated from the speculation threads.

 

[lostinblue]

I'm reading that verge thing, how biased can they get?

It's jarring because it's actually well written, but then force feeds you crap assumptions in between.

Dude at some point basically concludes at their best games equal PS3/X360, but implies they can't possibly surpass them; pretty sure that's not the case even with launch software.

Then comes the "lacks processing power because it takes time to load unoptimized shit".


Oh, and the thing about Nintendo stuff being ill constructed is pretty dumb. I mean, PS3 dual shock 3 have very flimsy plastic compared to the dual shock 2's, and X360 controllers aren't deluxe finished either; the shoulder buttons never felt right for me. Speaking of which, the assembly construction of the X360 console itself was so bad I exchanged mine 4/5 times until I got a satisfying one. And I'm not complaining.

All this to say, Nintendo is probably the best when it comes to track record in assembling sturdy things that could survive a 5 year old; it's in their DNA.


From the time I held the controller, it didn't feel cheap; the classic controller shoulder buttons though... needed work; but it was straight after E3 when they unveiled it so I figured it was early.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Well, for all the DDR3 drama, i can say that i've never heard once complains from my sources about it.

On the rest, don't know a lot about the GPU. For the CPU, i'll reveal a little golden nugget in a few days/weeks when the mood will calm down a bit, nothing major though (like the frequency).

What? That's it's able to underclock and run Wii games without the need for any CPU emulation? That's what I'm calling.

 

[IdeaMan]

Although you're certainly right, they said the same with the Wii, that they had this goal of each channel taking at most 3 seconds to load, and that although that wasn't the case they'd keep improving them with that goal in mind.

Never happened. Nintendo doesn't have the best track record on that/they have a lot of catching up to do.

I hope they do though.

I'm not totally sure of what i'll say, but my sources described me the OS, the dashboard, and all the different pushes from Nintendo (updates), and i relayed some of it here. They told me nearly everything, and never once they qualified the navigation on this OS of slow, cumbersome, etc. And they weren't shy to point to problems before so i don't know why they would have hidden that.

So i really think (it's the assumption part) that Nintendo somewhat rushed this update for customers, or there is an optimization problem in files, etc, i don't know, but it seems it's not the way it was supposed to be.

 

[MadeInBeats]

Ideaman, wherefore art thou ?.

Someone hit the Ideasign !.

So the console is out, the games your sources have been making are released, care to spill some more 'beans' ? .

Sorry it's late.

 

[lostinblue]

So i really think (it's the assumption part) that Nintendo somewhat rushed this update for customers, or there is an optimization problem in files, etc, i don't know, but it seems it's not the way it was supposed to be.

There's probably an easier explanation.

Dev console's have double the RAM right? they're better at running unoptimized code, which is probably the case here.


That would imply that the current problem is how heavy the code is or how it multitasks.

 

[wsippel]

It really depends on when something finally leaks. Unlike marked RAM chips, you can't just look at a CPU die and say "ah, this has 3 X cores running at Y GHz".

Chipworks is probably decapping the chips as we speak. That should tell us a lot - if they decide to disclose any details.

 

[Apophis2036]

From the tear down last night.

I feel more and more vindicated from the speculation threads.

What tear down, you got a link ?.

Does it make you feel like more of a man to be right about the speed of a Nintendo consoles Ram ?, loool if so .

@Ideaman

You should make the CPU reveals as soon as possible, the CPU / Ram specs will more than likely be out in the next day or two.

The GPU is obviously a lot harder to decode.

 

[Smurfman256]

OK! So after watching THIS teardown, I can say that:

Wii U uses Samsung K4W4G1646B-HC RAM (4Gb, most likely clocked at 1066MHz).

 

[Thraktor]

OK! So after watching THIS teardown, I can say that:

Wii U uses Samsung K4W4G1646B-HC RAM (4Gb, most likely clocked at 800MHz).

There's already a thread on it. As far as clocks are concerned, double the GPU clock would be a good bet (ie around 1GHz).

 

[IdeaMan]

There's probably an easier explanation.

Dev console's have double the RAM right? they're better at running unoptimized code, which is probably the case here.


That would imply that the current problem is how heavy the code is or how it multitasks.

Devs got 3GB in a certain dev kit (i'm not sure if the mass production ones still got 3GB), but 1GB wasn't accessible for them. It was already reserved/planned for the OS.

So if it was fluid for them, it wasn't because of the additional memory of the dev kits used for debugging. It really seems there's an optimization problem in the day 1 update customers received.

 

[Apophis2036]

4GB's of Ram !, wtf !, i thought Iwata confirmed it had 2GB, 1GB for OS, 1GB for Games ?.

 

[Backfoggen]

4GB's of Ram !, wtf !, i thought Iwata confirmed it had 2GB, 1GB for OS, 1GB for Games ?.

4 Gigabit = 0.5 gigabytes per chip. 4 RAM chips are in there.

 

[Apophis2036]

4 Gigabit = 0.5 gigabytes per chip. 4 RAM chips are in there.

Lol, ah ok, sorry i dumb .

 

[Horse Armour]

What happebed to BGassassin, he was evangelising the power of the console for like 2 years straight and talking about the inside connections he had and now when we finally start getting tear downs of it to see if he was right, he's nowhere to be seen?

 

[blu]

Teardowns ahoy. Memory down, GPU and CPU silicon to go ;p

 

[lostinblue]

Devs got 3GB in a certain dev kit (i'm not sure if the mass production ones still got 3GB), but 1GB wasn't accessible for them. It was already reserved/planned for the OS.

So if it was fluid for them, it wasn't because of the additional memory of the dev kits used for debugging. It really seems there's an optimization problem in the day 1 update customers received.

I see, thanks.

 

[Fourth Storm]

What happebed to BGassassin, he was evangelising the power of the console for like 2 years straight and talking about the inside connections he had and now when we finally start getting tear downs of it to see if he was right, he's nowhere to be seen?

He never claimed to have any information on RAM speed, type, or interface. Let's cut the nonsense lynch mob. We speculated for fun in those threads. As for where he is, he told us he was gonna be spending less time on message boards. Some of us here could probably use a little break likewise.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

4 Gigabit = 0.5 gigabytes per chip. 4 RAM chips are in there.

Off topic but wasn't there some confusion regarding RAM and gigabits and gigbytes with the PS4?

Anyway, I think I'll refrain judgement until some people really dig into the WiiU and see what's cooking.

 

[Van Owen]

What tear down, you got a link ?.

Does it make you feel like more of a man to be right about the speed of a Nintendo consoles Ram ?, loool if so .

Yes.

A lot of people owe me an apology.

 

[DieH@rd]

So Wii U uses slower RAM than 360 and ps3? Anything else revealed last night?

It has a little slower ram, and little slower processor than x360, but GPU is more powerful and 1gb of ram will soon enable developers to create games that were not possible before.

Of course, nextgen products from MS and Sony will blow WiiU away, but traditionalu software support will show us who will be the "winner".

 

[Lonely1]

Teardowns ahoy. Memory down, GPU and CPU silicon to go ;p

Can't wait to see dad transistor counts and fab. (Did we ever got 3DS' fab?).

 

[Phazon]

and little slower processor than x360,

Got a source for that.

Because all I've seen are some devs saying that the clock speed was lower. That doesn't mean anything nowadays

 

[Apophis2036]

Yes.

A lot of people owe me an apology.

Ahahaha, what are you like 12 ? .

 

[ozfunghi]

Yes.

A lot of people owe me an apology.

Nobody owes you anything. I also fail to see what exactly has changed. Speculation has been that the RAM would be DDR3 for the past 6 months and might be slower than that of the HD twins but with a lot lower latency and more of it. Which is exactly what it turned out to be.

Lol, ah ok, sorry i dumb .

The difference is in the capital B (bytes).

 

[Lonely1]

And, unoptimized for "exotic" memory architecture shows it's ugly head:

Wii U version looks a bit sharper (look at the platic bag or wheelchair tires), but the shadowmaps are clearly lower res than 360's.

 

[Eideka]

Apparently this video is pre-rendered.

I remember reading the Wii U version has better textures.

 

[Lonely1]

Apparently this video is pre-rendered.

I remember reading the Wii U version has better textures.

From that screen, it does. But shadowmaps are still lower res. Explained by slower main memory. Now, if the video is indeed pre-rendered...

 

[Reiko]

And, unoptimized for "exotic" memory architecture shows it's ugly head:

Wii U version looks a bit sharper (look at the platic bag or wheelchair tires), but the shadowmaps are clearly lower res than 360's.

Confirmed in other thread. Wii U Realtime Vs. compressed Xbox 360 Bink Video

 

[Lonely1]

Confirmed in other thread. Wii U Realtime Vs. compressed Xbox 360 Bink Video

Oh, I see. Thanks for the info. Care to share a link?

 

[blu]

Can't wait to see dad transistor counts and fab. (Did we ever got 3DS' fab?).

I believe somebody did xrays to the 3ds, but that never got publicity.

Anyway, the real fun is just starting ; )

 

[wsippel]

I believe somebody did xrays to the 3ds, but that never got publicity.

Anyway, the real fun is just starting ; )

Chipworks did. As always. They only released details and images of the custom FCRAM chip, though.

 

[Reiko]

Oh, I see. Thanks for the info. Care to share a link?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=44469907&postcount=1025

 

[Fourth Storm]

Chipworks did. As always. They only released details and images of the custom FCRAM chip, though.

Why wouldn't they release the images? Nintendo got some type of legal hold on them?

I believe somebody did xrays to the 3ds, but that never got publicity.

Anyway, the real fun is just starting ; )

Indeed, it is! I'm sure there are lots of little optimizations that Nintendo made that will keep my interest in the hardware going strong.

 

[Deku Tree]

A few questions. Anyone know why the Wii U controller has such pathetic battery life?

 

[AzaK]

Yeah undoubtedly they will improve that to reach a satisfactory level. See their web-browser, it was ready in time and praised for its quickness. Basically, i think it was either you got the features in this update available day 1 but not totally optimized yet, either you would have waited longer for it but with a faster use.

They either have a file system that doesn't pre cache anything, have super super slow flash or maybe they released debug code 10-15 seconds to load a main menu is terrible.

I believe somebody did xrays to the 3ds, but that never got publicity.

Anyway, the real fun is just starting ; )

Blu! Can you shine some light on this news? Is it good, bad, irrelevant in the scheme of things once we look at EDRAM or what? What are your feelings?

A few questions. Anyone know why the Wii U controller has such pathetic battery life?

They put the cheapest battery in that they felt would to the job, 3-5 hours isn't that bad IMO. I never play that long in reality, I will just need to remember to charge it.

 

[Deku Tree]

Thanks. Here is my other question. Did they include a lot of extra space in the battery compartment so the battery has room to "explode" without damaging the controller? Or so that you can buy a better battery from Nintendo later for more money? Or for some other reason?

 

[Piggus]

It has a little slower ram, and little slower processor than x360, but GPU is more powerful and 1gb of ram will soon enable developers to create games that were not possible before.

Of course, nextgen products from MS and Sony will blow WiiU away, but traditionalu software support will show us who will be the "winner".

Wouldn't the CPU be a major bottleneck for certain games if that's the case? When you're talking about CPU-bound games anyway.

 

[Mr Swine]

Wouldn't the CPU be a major bottleneck for certain games if that's the case? When you're talking about CPU-bound games anyway.

That is where GPU comes in and takes of some of the stuff the CPU does

 

[Lonely1]

Thanks. Here is my other question. Did they include a lot of extra space in the battery compartment so the battery has room to "explode" without damaging the controller? Or so that you can buy a better battery from Nintendo later for more money? Or for some other reason?

Weight issues.

 

[v1oz]

A few questions. Anyone know why the Wii U controller has such pathetic battery life?

there is space in the compartment for a much larger battery,

 

[Deku Tree]

there is space in the compartment for a much larger battery,

My second question above:

Thanks. Here is my other question. Did they include a lot of extra space in the battery compartment so the battery has room to "explode" without damaging the controller? Or so that you can buy a better battery from Nintendo later for more money? Or for some other reason?

 

[Piggus]

That is where GPU comes in and takes of some of the stuff the CPU does

For certain tasks that's possible, yes. But then you're just using GPU processing power to make up for the deficiencies of the CPU. :/ This system doesn't sound very balanced. Bit I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the real final specs are.

 

[Thraktor]

For certain tasks that's possible, yes. But then you're just using GPU processing power to make up for the deficiencies of the CPU. :/ This system doesn't sound very balanced. Bit I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the real final specs are.

The issue is that, all through this gen, developers have had to use CPU processing power to make up for the deficiencies of the GPU. Next gen is going to be even more GPU-centric, as tasks like physics are going to be offloaded to it, and Nintendo's architecture seems quite sensible in that respect.

 

[wsippel]

Why wouldn't they release the images? Nintendo got some type of legal hold on them?

They sell the data. That's their business. Competitors or companies looking for patent infringements buy it.

 

[Lonely1]

Courtesy of dark10x

Wii U:

360:

So, I can say again: And, unoptimized for "exotic" memory architecture shows it's ugly head.

 

[blu]

Blu! Can you shine some light on this news? Is it good, bad, irrelevant in the scheme of things once we look at EDRAM or what? What are your feelings?

Business as usual. You've been following the WUSTs and you know that most people who seriously partook in the conversation back then were expecting the edram pool to ease the stress on main RAM and allow nintendo to go with a streamlined DDR3 setup. I could go dig out some conversations involving Fourth Storm, Thraktor, wsippel, BG et al, but I don't see a point in doing so.

 

[arit]

Courtesy of dark10x



So, I can say again: And, unoptimized for "exotic" memory architecture shows it's ugly head.

Looking at the shadow on the floor, it just seems to have a rather limited distance until shadow resolution drops and not general a lower resolution?

 

[Donnie]

So Wii U uses slower RAM than 360 and ps3? Anything else revealed last night?

Why do people keep lumping 360 and PS3 together when referring to main memory bandwidth? PS3 has over twice as much as 360, obviously 360 is less than half the power of PS3 yeah?