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VGleaks: Orbis Unveiled! [Updated]
- Thread starter ekim
- Start date
4CUs forms a cluster with it's own cache, so it makes sense for 'reserved' GPGPU items to be a multiple of 4CU.
http://www.amd.com/uk/Documents/GCN_Architecture_whitepaper.pdf
apparantly GCN has dual ACEs (asynchronous compute engines) which schedule graphics or compute work to CUs. This might mean that you are limited in the granularity of how you address jobs, and so Sony went with a 14:4 setup (14CUs for graphics, 4CU for GPGPU). Not sure if the cut down CUs compared to something like 7970 might mean only one ACE for Orbis?
http://developer.amd.com/wordpress/media/2012/10/AMD_Southern_Islands_Instruction_Set_Architecture.pdf
also, the DMA engines are a standard part of GCN - wasn't this speculated as 'special sauce' for Durango? But might be standard in the architecture - dont' know if it's simply not exposed in DirectX and therefore not utilised directly on PC GPUs?
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
The only thing that caught my eye here is that the GPU is formatted at 14+4 CU. Can someone explain what that means exactly? Is the extra 4CUs the "Compute unit" the Eurogamer was talking about? If so, that means that the compute unit flops are rolled into the 1.82TF count, right? Does anyone care to guess why they did this instead of making all 18CUs available for whatever? I remember Durante was making TF/BW calculation for this hardware, saying that its ratio there is higher than AMDs GPU normally are, so is this why they dedicated the 4CUs for a non rendering purpose? Because they'd otherwise be wasteful?
*edit* OK, I see this is already being discussed.
Interesting thing about this hardware is that it will have larger fast memory pool than practically any PC when it launches, no? In that sense it's still an interesting custom design (Or if not, and a GPU with 4GB of GDDR exists, I'm pretty sure no game in existence is designed to actually make good use of it on a single monitor setup). I think the hardware sounds great, and I just hope they allow LibGCM style metal access to it again, for skilled devs to really make it sing.
*edit* OK, I see this is already being discussed.
Interesting thing about this hardware is that it will have larger fast memory pool than practically any PC when it launches, no? In that sense it's still an interesting custom design (Or if not, and a GPU with 4GB of GDDR exists, I'm pretty sure no game in existence is designed to actually make good use of it on a single monitor setup). I think the hardware sounds great, and I just hope they allow LibGCM style metal access to it again, for skilled devs to really make it sing.
grimshawish
Banned
I dunno. Thats the issue. Just who will Durango be for? I feel it falls into the Windows 8 trap of trying tp meet all markets but then failing to meet any of them.
lol Why do people keep trying to directly compare PC to closed systems? With these specs, Orbis/Durango are going to output some ridiculous looking games and I can't wait.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
yup and then some, and there's nothing OMG FABLEDDD about it.
Clay Davis
Member
you're right of course, but these advantage will surely play a major part in the console as time goes on. it's all speculation, I expect both consoles will have stunning games at launch and beyond.
this is my worry. I loved microsoft's direction before kinect hit and accepted that this late into the generation isn't the wisest time to release a large number of new ips or buy exclusives, but if the rumours about kinect in the box are true and them dedicating 2-3gb for the os / kinect / other features, they risk alienating the group that got them to where they are now.
the masses who bought kinect are gone, just like they were gone when nintendo launched the wii u. that group is incredibly fickle and won't particularly care if a new kinect is out.
let's hope so. if only to put to bed the speculation about which is more powerful.
longdi
Banned
shucks they downgraded the gddr5....
sony planning to sell this for $399 and turn a profit with the first-second games bought? i see no problem hitting $399, the specs are not impressive. by the time PS4 launches, i believe high end gaming laptop will surpass the performance with ease...
too conservative, should have built for $499. people pay for ipads at a higher price.
sony planning to sell this for $399 and turn a profit with the first-second games bought? i see no problem hitting $399, the specs are not impressive. by the time PS4 launches, i believe high end gaming laptop will surpass the performance with ease...
too conservative, should have built for $499. people pay for ipads at a higher price.
Easy. They'll target 3.5 GB DDR3 RAM and all will be good.
grimshawish
Banned
Other way around imo. So Sony dun good.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
I'm not sure why people assume what is in the box, the leaks are based on docs and dev kits. Supporting a camera or a Move is different than being in the box. I would assume at this point that the developer documents and software have support for a camera and Move.
funny the 2012 discussions on RAM speed vs size at B3D between developers was whether 2GB of GDDR5 was better than 4GB of DDR and the 360 developer said he would rather have the fast RAM. No one then suggested they wanted 8GB. Now the discussion is 4GB vs 8GB. At some point there is a sweet spot between bandwidth, fill rate and available RAM. We will find out in a few years where that sweet spot is.
Baconsammy
Banned
I hope "evolved dualshock" means it evolved into something that fits my man hands. A split controller similar to the current two Move controllers would be nice.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
ipads can be used for more things and are 100 times more portable.
Lion Heart
Banned
The only concern for me is that multiplat games will have higher res textures on Durango than Orbis, I don't see any way the opposite will be true. Faster Ram can't compensate texture resolution can it?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
What is BDXL? And why is it better than the BD in the PS3?
R10Neymarfan
Member
lol you wish. Luckily for me I'll get my 1080p24fps pre-rendered cutscenes, I wager they'll get that HDMI 2.0 spec out and for next gen consoles so 1080p30 and 1080p60 3D cutscenes can be played.
Schnozberry
Member
Because they use parts very similar parts to the ones you find in PC's? You can make apples to apples comparisons with x86 CPU's and AMD GPU's, since they are also found in PC's.
Tarin02543
Member
That's good.
Felix Lighter
Member
I don't have a single game that comes close to 50GB in my PC game collection. What games are pushing that limit? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just haven't ran into any, personally.
I think Max Payne is in the 30GB territory because it uses some HD video for cutscenes and I think the Force Unleashed 2(?) is inexplicably enormous. Maybe some MMOs + all their expansions get up there but even games with optional HD texture packs don't typically come anywhere near 50GB.
That would make for some crappy multiplats.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
BDXL is 100GB blu-ray disc.
Well the rumors say that Durango's OS takes up to 3 gigs (which seems enormous) so really we're talking about 5 gigs versus 3.5 gigs.
FlyingTeacup
Member
with the higher bandwidth, the amount of ram per frame available is exactly higher.
R10Neymarfan
Member
BDXL allows for 100GB and 150GB storage on a disk. Necessary for 4K videos and 9.1 lossless sound. Maybe even 1080p48 3D for movies like the Hobbit.
Devs can put 1080p60 3D content for their pre-rendered scenes, Dolby True HD and DTS MA game soundtracks, and more higher quality textures.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Don't put too much into the potential of more RAM in Durango as in Orbis. You will find quite the same performance in both as dedicated memory to games is close. And GDDR5 (in Orbis) is pretty "hot".
Manmademan
Member
no need to wish, 3D televisions did not sell well at all. They're largely considered a flop and the new focus will be on 4K.
up to 100GB on quad layer discs, will probably be required if they ever ship 4k movies on bluray.
Either Sony will use BDXL and devkits simply have a standard drive, or they think perhaps there is no market for 4k on disc (they've been talking about downloading 4k stuff) and so won't bother investing in it?
The cost isn't just the drive but also the printing cost of discs.
BloodMoney
Banned
Nor do I.
The poster you quoted won't be able to come up with a game that is larger than 50 gigs unless the pulls the whole 'Skyrim Modded with ULTRA insane wasteful textures' card.
Yeah.
Someone with more knowledge of how task scheduling works in GCN might be able to answer, but at a guess, I think they're giving 4 of the CUs more than just their own cache, per mrKlaw's post above, but possibly its own thread scheduler etc. So that if you're doing GPGPU, you can keep them segregated and not have a (less optimal?) mixing of tasks on one group of CUs. jeffrigby mentioned that AMD is for the moment recommending APU+GPU setups in systems that want to use GPGPU in a non-negligible way, because more optimal GPGPU/render task switching within one GPU etc. won't be on stream until next year...so that would tie in with why, maybe, they'd want to segregate two groups of GCN CUs.
I think you'll still be able to use the 4 CUs for rendering tasks if you prefer. How transparent the split will be in that case, to the programmer, I'm not sure. Hopefully it would be transparent and if no GPGPU tasks are scheduled, the libraries can send tasks off to both schedulers for you.
That's pure guesswork though.
H_Prestige
Banned
Then I really hope it has BDXL. 1080p48 looked incredible in the hobbit. It would be ridiculous if Sony's premiere AV device wasn't able to support that.
Felix Lighter
Member
Even Skyrim modded to hell and back won't break 20-25GB.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
WHOA!!! So what speed would you guys think can be in the system if it does have a BDXL drive? At least 6x?
maverick40
Junior Member
Yeah but the ps4 won't have this plastered all over it. $399 is the least it will cost.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
The RAM in Orbis that is available for games is enough and most importantly, SUPER FAST.
Yeah but the ps4 won't have this plastered all over it. $399 is the least it will cost.
Come back when they announce the price
That's it for me.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Let's not forget it allows for an easy crossfade between two completely different sceneries which is a typical thing you could need in a cutscene and is a nightmare to pull off completely in realtime.
Manmademan
Member
I recall hearing somewhere that 4K was a certainty for the PS4, so BDXL is very likely to be in.
Hell, Sony should just call it the PS4K. perfect marketing.
R10Neymarfan
Member
You're crazy to even think many people will be able to digitally watch 4K content, at least good 4K content. Even then the ISP monthly cap will be blown in like the first 10 minutes.]
3D is in every TV now. I don't consider it a flop and I expect manufacturers to make 144hz or higher tvs for 1080p48 and 1080p60 content in the future whether for gaming or movies. Maybe even 1080p120 for those major GAF gamers.
weekend_warrior
Banned
No pictures? Shame.
BloodMoney
Banned
Disagree. If you are in the market for a high end TV, i.e. a great 2D image, the set is also going to be 3D.
It was a target that was never actually met to reduce costs.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
If this were the case we would see PC video cards with 8GB of DDR3, you don't.
Nope. These are THE EXACT textures that are inside Uncharted 3. 720p resolution makes them look much worse than they could be.
Also, Orbis has hardware for automatic decompressing of textures, they could be much more detailed than these ones that can fit in 512MB console.
I disagree. $500 for a DS4, 2 Move+1 Eye, large HDD and a game is a package a fair amount of people will go for.
This is how I see it going:
$350: Base model - PS4, DS4, 250gb HDD, 1 month PS+
$400: + Model - PS4, 1-2 DS4, 500gb HDD, 1 year PS+, PS Store credit $10-25
$450: Move Model - PS4, DS4, 1 Move+PSEYE, $250gb HDD, 1yr PS+, Move Game, PS Store credit $10-25
$500: Premium Model - PS4, 1-2 DS4, 2 Move+PSEye, 750gb HDD, 1yr PS+, 1 PS4 game, PS Store credit $25+
OG_Original Gamer
Member
Didn't take long for this one to head down hill, reminds me of vomit.
Of course not. All that extra bandwidth can't help loading data faster from BD to RAM. A 6x drive loads 27 MB/s at peak. Means PS4 will have either lots more pop-in or additional loading screens.
Xenon
Member
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136250
14X. $70. I'm sure it'll be cheaper if it's read-only, and most definitely cheaper than what is used on PS3 right now.
Please stop comparing PCs to consoles.
What PC video card is also packed with expensive ESRAM?
The only reason why I could see Sony dropping a BDXL into the PS4 is either 4k or insanely large texture files. Cost isn't that bad for 3rd party externals, but even a small difference in cost could make or break the system at retail.