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[Zoe]

Why are there even separate men's and women's washrooms these days?

Just make generic washrooms with only toilets in stalls. It's not like anyone else is going to see your genitals in a toilet stall.

I don't remember much of elementary, but throughout middle school and high school we frequently turned restrooms into dressing rooms in the middle of the day for clubs, sports, and other random events.

 

[CrazyDude]

To be honest, is it that important to have separate bathrooms at that age in the first place?

 

[Deified Data]

Are you magically made aware of the genitals of the person sitting in the stall next to you?

This is only an issue because they're making an issue. This was there one chance - treat this trans kid as a perfectly normal human being and the children would naturally follow suit, but no, gotta set that precedent. Can't have those kids thinking she actually belongs anywhere.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

Why are there even separate men's and women's washrooms these days?

Just make generic washrooms with only toilets in stalls. It's not like anyone else is going to see your genitals in a toilet stall.

Also, why are they afraid male genitals will be seen in a women's washroom when women's washrooms are all stalls?

Some people are married and have jealous spouses. Also the fact being accused of rape makes you guilty even after being proven innocent. Yea I'm on the side of men and women being separate.

 

[depths20XX]

This is partially what confuses me, too. It's also why the Genderbread picture is kind of odd to me. I believe pretty much everything we are is on a scale, much like the picture, and can be very fluid. But it feels weird to me that it still describes things in a binary nature. What exactly is "woman-ness" or "man-ness" when talking about gender? Like, I really just don't understand what it is if it isn't talking about just gender roles. And if that's the case then that should be pointed out, and even talking about things in terms of traditional gender roles seems reductive to me. Perhaps there just isn't a way to do that graphic without going that route. I dunno.

To me, though, you're just you, and whatever that means to you, and I'm just me. I don't feel especially "male" in any way. I guess I fall into a good amount of traditional male gender roles, but I still identify more as just "me" rather than "male."

Yeah I still don't get what it means to be a man or a woman. Outside of following social norms.

 

[TOP SHOTTA]

A trans woman isn't gay if she is attracted to men.

My brain hurts.

 

[Log4Girlz]

A trans woman isn't gay if she is attracted to men.

But if she was attracted to a woman she would be gay...but what about the partner? What if the transwoman never has an operation and her mate loves penis and wouldn't be with her if she didn't have a penis. Would the partner be a lesbian/bi-sexual/straight?

 

[RDreamer]

My brain hurts.

But if she was attracted to a woman she would be gay...but what about the partner? What if the transwoman never has an operation and her mate loves penis and wouldn't be with her if she didn't have a penis. Would the partner be a lesbian/bi-sexual/straight?

This is why labels kind of suck. You like what you like and you are who you are. Have fun and be safe with whatever the hell you're going to be doing. All these labels of those activities and feelings make things kind of weird and corral people into places they might not otherwise be.

 

[BigDug13]

They are allowing her to be able to use the faculty gender neutral bathroom as well as the nurse's bathroom. So they're not just giving her the finger here. It's going to be a difficult transition going forward. How will gym class and showers be handled?

 

[Dead Man]

My brain hurts.

If a woman is attracted to men only, what would her sexuality be? Heterosexual.

But if she was attracted to a woman she would be gay...but what about the partner? What if the transwoman never has an operation and her mate loves penis and wouldn't be with her if she didn't have a penis. Would the partner be a lesbian/bi-sexual/straight?

The partner could be many things, he may be bi, he may be straight but open to different genitals since she presents as a woman in all other ways. Sexual orientation is not just about what genitals you want to fuck.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

If a woman is attracted to men only, what would her sexuality be? Heterosexual.

So then what's the difference between transgender and body modification?

 

[Log4Girlz]

This is why labels kind of suck. You like what you like and you are who you are. Have fun and be safe with whatever the hell you're going to be doing. All these labels of those activities and feelings make things kind of weird and corral people into places they might not otherwise be.

If a trans woman retained a penis and wanted to marry her female partner, would it be legal, or would it constitute a gay marriage?



Odd questions.

 

[Dead Man]

So then what's the difference between transgender and body modification?

What? I don't understand what you are asking.

 

[Dead Man]

If a trans woman retained a penis and wanted to marry her female partner, would it be legal, or would it constitute a gay marriage?



Odd questions.

Oddly enough given the defence of traditional marriage rules so many places have, and the lack of recognition of transgender issues, some odd things have happened over the years. I think a transman and his girlfriend got married since he was able to get recognised as a man, but in other cases a transwoman was able to marry her girlfriend because her status was legally that of a man.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

What? I don't understand what you are asking.

Transgender woman, who is still attracted to men. Since gender does not equal sexuality, does it fall into body modification rather than gender identity. I'm so confused my head hurts.

 

[Log4Girlz]

If a transwoman impregnates her partner, is she a mother or father? Its all so strange.

 

[Dead Man]

Transgender woman, who is still attracted to men. Since gender does not equal sexuality, does it fall into body modification rather than gender identity. I'm so confused my head hurts.

Sorry, I still don't get it. Are you saying they are extreme body modifications done to men, rather than medical procedures to help a girl present as a girl?

If a transwoman impregnates her partner, is she a mother or father? Its all so strange.

She is a parent.

 

[Eighty Deuce]

If a transwoman impregnates her partner, is she a mother or father? Its all so strange.

I give up, I'll let someone else figure this out haha

 

[Kai Dracon]

This is why labels kind of suck. You like what you like and you are who you are. Have fun and be safe with whatever the hell you're going to be doing. All these labels of those activities and feelings make things kind of weird and corral people into places they might not otherwise be.

I must admit, I've always liked this statement on the subject:

 

[Log4Girlz]

Sorry, I still don't get it. Are you saying they are extreme body modifications done to men, rather than medical procedures to help a girl present as a girl?



She is a parent.

But a mother parent or a father parent?

 

[RDreamer]

Transgender woman, who is still attracted to men. Since gender does not equal sexuality, does it fall into body modification rather than gender identity. I'm so confused my head hurts.

I think the difference would be that body modification is something you do just because you want to or possibly on a whim. Getting your sex changed would be something you do because your psyche doesn't accept the body it is already in and needs to change to be comfortable.

That's as far as I'm able to really understand things. To me it seems entirely logical that someone could be psychologically not able to accept their body. It'd be like being allergic to a part of yourself (which I think can happen). It's a sort of glitch in the system in a way, and putting the body in the right configuration to what the psyche wants makes sense to me and I support that. It's the stuff beyond that like actually identifying as a gender that still kind of eludes me.

I must admit, I've always liked this statement on the subject:

Hah, I think that describes my confusion with everything quite well. People are describing these boxes and I'm just sitting here wondering what the fuck box they're talking about even is.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Considering there are no urinals in girls bathrooms I'm puzzled by this decision. I can understand why a parent would be concerned simply out of being protective but the stalls ensure no girls would see her dick, so no harm no foul. As she grows older and starts looking more masculine I'd imagine girls might become concerned, but right now I don't think it would be a major issues.

 

[Kai Dracon]

But a mother parent or a father parent?

"But if the carriage moves by itself, where does the horse ride?"

I suppose it's a bit like that. A parent is a parent, binary gender concepts, even in language tradition, may hide or confuse the plainer truth.

 

[Log4Girlz]

"But if the carriage moves by itself, where does the horse ride?"

I suppose it's a bit like that. A parent is a parent, binary gender concepts, even in language tradition, may hide or confuse the plainer truth.

But the binary gender concepts are still important. I mean, if we call this girl a boy some people would get in an uproar. Some people are upset that this girl may be forced to use a boy's restroom, despite sharing the same genitalia. Its all a very complicated issue.

 

[Dead Man]

But the binary gender concepts are still important. I mean, if we call this girl a boy some people would get in an uproar. Some people are upset that this girl may be forced to use a boy's restroom, despite sharing the same genitalia. Its all a very complicated issue.

Unless you feel that a single parent or a same sex couple cannot raise a child as well as a mixed sex couple, it doesn't really matter, does it?

 

[poppabk]

I must admit, I've always liked this statement on the subject:

Isn't the issue that this girl has decided she fits in a specific 'box'.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Unless you feel that a single parent or a same sex couple cannot raise a child as well as a mixed sex couple, it doesn't really matter, does it?

What we refer to people matters a lot to them. I'm just trying to get the labels right. But ultimately, labels are not of much value to me, though it varies per person.

 

[CrudeDiatribe]

Transgender woman, who is still attracted to men. Since gender does not equal sexuality, does it fall into body modification rather than gender identity. I'm so confused my head hurts.

!? I'm confused by your confusion.

Answer these questions:
What gender do you feel you are?
What is the gender of a typical person you want to fuck?

See? Gender is the first, and together with the second answer you can figure out what label (gay/straight/bi/asexual/whatever) to apply to your sexuality.

What we refer to people matters a lot to them. I'm just trying to get the labels right. But ultimately, labels are not of much value to me, though it varies per person.

I've found that if it's not completely obvious (as in your scenario), asking someone what label they'd like usually works.

 

[Jeff Albertson]

I've seen the rationale for it (and the drawing many times in these threads) but I'm another that thinks this is just too young for this kind of decision and do wonder about the parents.

Of course some kids know something isn't quite right but I feel at times others will maybe want to wear a dress one day and the parents jump on the chance to make some point.

We don't know about this case in particular but I'm sure it happens.

It's just a stretch too far for me to fully comprehend I think that kids that young are with it enough to know something that serious, if the kid is 7 now then how long have they been identifying as a girl?

 

[mantidor]

As great as I think transgender kids have accepting parents, it always bother me how much of it could be an influence from the parents themselves. A huge amount of kids do cross dresing at least once, just as the response from a conservative parent being terrified is something terrible for the child, going "omg you are transgender" could also be harmful.

I'm not talking about this specific case since I don't know the details, but I do hope they are having professional psychiatric support.

 

[Kafel]

the school needs a third bathroom

 

[T.M. MacReady]

the school needs a third bathroom

it has one.

and a nurses bathroom they gave her the option of using.

The school did the right thing on all fronts, the fact that this is news makes me think the parents are blowing it up for attention.

 

[Mumei]

That's a nice picture and all but doesn't the genitals reveal what kind of body you have and what kind of hormones you produce, which affects the way your brain develops, which controls every expression you make? Just checking..

Well, not every situation of being transgender (or intersex, for that matter) is the same; there are various intersex conditions, issues relating to hormones, and all involve issues of one's gender identity not matching one's apparent physical sex. So with that in mind it is a bit difficult to answer your question directly.

But I think it is important to remember that the key thing is that for a transgender person there is incongruity between the physical sex (what you are describing) and the mental (the internal sense of being male or female), and correcting this is done by changing the body through hormone therapy and possibly surgery, because it is not possible to change a person's gender identity.

BTW, is there any research on how strongly and how early transgender kids know that their sex doesn't match their physical parts?

I found something that had a mean age of around eight (and a modal age of five), but I couldn't find further research so I didn't post it. As it is, I have heard personal testimonials of transgender people knowing at a very young age.

This is partially what confuses me, too. It's also why the Genderbread picture is kind of odd to me. I believe pretty much everything we are is on a scale, much like the picture, and can be very fluid. But it feels weird to me that it still describes things in a binary nature. What exactly is "woman-ness" or "man-ness" when talking about gender? Like, I really just don't understand what it is if it isn't talking about just gender roles. And if that's the case then that should be pointed out, and even talking about things in terms of traditional gender roles seems reductive to me. Perhaps there just isn't a way to do that graphic without going that route. I dunno.

Well, I think if you look at the pictures they aren't actually showing a binary scale. A binary scale would be something like this:

Male <-----------------> Female

Instead they are showing two separate scales:

Male |----------------------|
Fem. |----------------------|

Or masculinity and femininity or "man-ness" or "woman-ness" (which I think sound like very silly words, but I'll live). The point is to show that while most people's internal sense of being female, tend to express themselves in ways that are "normal" for women in their culture, and whose physical sex is unambiguously female (and reverse all of those things for cisgender men), and this can create the impression that there is a binary, there is actually an almost infinite variety of possibilities and this is an attempt to represent that.

This actually represents a shift; in the 1930s you had the psychological inventory test developed by Catherine Cox Miles and Lewis Terman in their study Sex and Personality, which presented an inventory of attitudes and behaviors parents could use to measure successful acquisition of masculinity and femininity. Tests such as this (M-F test) were used to construct a continuum from feminine to masculine that a child (or adult) could be placed on and could indicate successful gender acquisition. By the 1940s this would lead to the development of sex-role theory. For instance, this is how one test looked:

Gendered Knowledge: In the following completion items there are right and wrong answers, and it was assumed that the more "boyish" would know the right answer to questions 2, 3, and 5, and the more girlish would know the answers to items 1 and 4. Girls who knew the answers to 2, 3, and 5 would be scored as more "masculine"

1. Things coooked in grease are: boiled (+), broiled (+), fried (-), roasted (+)
2. Most of our anthracite coal comes from: Alabama (-), Colorado (-), Ohio (-), Pennsylvania (+)
3. The "Rough Riders" were led by: Funston (-), Pershing (-), Roosevelt (+), Sheridan (-)
4. Red goes best with: black (-), lavender (+), pink (+), purple (+)
5. The proportion of the globe covered by water is about: 1/8 (-), 1/4 (-), 1/5 (-), 3/4 (+)

Gendered Feelings: The test also included a variety of stimuli that were thought to provoke certain emotions. Respondents were to answer whether these things caused (a) a lot, (b) some, (c) little, or (d) none of the expected condition. For example:

Does: being called lazy; seeing boys make fun of old people; seeing someone cheat on an exam make you ANGRY?
Does: being lost; deep water; graveyards at night; Negroes (this is actually on the list!) make you AFRAID?
Does: a fly caught on sticky fly paper; a man who is cowardly and can't help it; a wounded deer make you feel PITY?
Does: boys teasing girls, indulging in "petting"; not brushing your teeth; being a Bolshevik make you feel that a person is WICKED?

(To score this section, give yourself a minus (-) for every answer in which you said that the thing caused a LOT of emotion, except for the answer "being a Bolshevik" whihc was obviously serious enough for men to get very emotional about. On all others, including being afraid of Negroes, however, high levels of emotion were scored as feminine.)​

And it goes on. Of course, as we know now the problem is that cultural norms for masculine and feminine behavior change over time, and today some of these are downright amusing. In most cases the reason for tests like this was because the perceived connection between homosexuality and failed gender acquisition in boys (and the similar connection between lesbians and failed gender acquisition as girls, though there has always been more hysteria about gay men than lesbians, I think). These perspectives also still have a lot of currency among people who are anti-gay or people who claim to practice reparative therapy (there's a difference?) For really poignant example of this, I would suggest reading this blog project on BoxTurtleBulletin.

Over time there were challenges to these tests (e.g. feminist psychologists who pointed out the androcentric bias that presented maleness as the normative standard both men and women were measured against, criticisms of male sex role identity actually creating male sex role strain, the realization that what masculinity and feminity means at different ages will change (e.g. early childhood as compared to early puberty as compared to early adulthood), and can mean different things to a person based on changes in ethnicity, sexuality, and even education. I think part of the difficulty with these conversations is that those older models lasted for decades and still have a lot of cultural cache with them.

To me, though, you're just you, and whatever that means to you, and I'm just me. I don't feel especially "male" in any way. I guess I fall into a good amount of traditional male gender roles, but I still identify more as just "me" rather than "male."

Maybe this has something to do with the way that for people in a dominant group (e.g. white, straight, cisgender), their status as a member of that class isn't necessarily always salient for them. I'm not sure; I'm not really usually conscious of, say, being white. I am, of course, but this just isn't really something I think about when I think "I am these things."

 

[GaimeGuy]

Comments in this thread and that article show that trans rights have a long, long way to go compared to gay/lesbian rights. Probably about 30 years of progress.

 

[RDreamer]

Well, I think if you look at the pictures they aren't actually showing a binary scale. A binary scale would be something like this:

Male <-----------------> Female

Instead they are showing two separate scales:

Male |----------------------|
Fem. |----------------------|

Or masculinity and femininity or "man-ness" or "woman-ness" (which I think sound like very silly words, but I'll live). The point is to show that while most people's internal sense of being female, tend to express themselves in ways that are "normal" for women in their culture, and whose physical sex is unambiguously female (and reverse all of those things for cisgender men), and this can create the impression that there is a binary, there is actually an almost infinite variety of possibilities and this is an attempt to represent that.

It's an attempt, but I don't think it quite gets there. It's still defining things based on man-ness or woman-ness, and I think if you're trying to express that there's an infinite variety of possibilities you're doing yourself a disservice by already starting to define things based on the two people are already stuck on. I believe there are an infinite variety of possibilities for people, too. As I said, you are just you, but that means I don't know what the hell "man-ness" even is in that case.

Maybe this has something to do with the way that for people in a dominant group (e.g. white, straight, cisgender), their status as a member of that class isn't necessarily always salient for them. I'm not sure; I'm not really usually conscious of, say, being white. I am, of course, but this just isn't really something I think about when I think "I am these things."

I think I could make the argument that the opposite of what you're saying is also true. Those not in the dominant case are more salient of their status and/or label simply because they are likely being discriminated or singled out in some way. The social status creates that group from which they can say "I am this." In a world where there was theoretically no real racism and everyone was in a completely integrated culture would you really still identify with a skin color? Would you as much as you do now? It'd be like identifying with having a big nose. Your skin's just that color. So what?

In that way I'm saying in a world where we want you to just be able to be you on the spectrum of infinite possibilities, then where is gender? Where do you identify with your gender, specifically? Is it with your genitals? Is it with what you like to do? Is it with your role in your family or household? Where is "man-ness," and where is "woman-ness?"

 

[genjiZERO]

it has one.

and a nurses bathroom they gave her the option of using.

The school did the right thing on all fronts, the fact that this is news makes me think the parents are blowing it up for attention.

Honestly, I feel the same way. I can see how it's not big deal to let her use the girls restroom, but I can see how it would make some parents reasonably uncomfortable. I think it's a fair compromise.

edit:

The social roles are social constructs, the prevalence of chemicals in the brain is a biological basis for differences in behaviour.

Edit: For instance, wearing skirts and liking pink are things girls do because of societal rules. Feeling like a female is because of differences in brain chemistry.

That might not be entirely true. Girl monkeys prefer dolls and boy monkeys trucks. I do realize that the particular examples you gave probably do represent cultural biases, but the evidence does suggest that gender preferences do exist.

 

[Juicy Bob]

Maybe this has something to do with the way that for people in a dominant group (e.g. white, straight, cisgender), their status as a member of that class isn't necessarily always salient for them. I'm not sure; I'm not really usually conscious of, say, being white. I am, of course, but this just isn't really something I think about when I think "I am these things."

I think you're absolutely right. Being white/male/hetero/cisgendered means that it's often very rare for you to be put in a box or stereotyped and so you tend to have more freedom to express your own identity as an individual.

 

[Seanspeed]

The social roles are social constructs, the prevalence of chemicals in the brain is a biological basis for differences in behaviour.

Edit: For instance, wearing skirts and liking pink are things girls do because of societal rules. Feeling like a female is because of differences in brain chemistry.

What does that mean, 'feeling like a female', though, if not being attracted towards 'feminine' behavior and disposition?

 

[RDreamer]

What does that mean, 'feeling like a female', though?

This is my question, too.

I get how one could possibly feel uncomfortable in their own body, as I've explained before, and I get how correcting that would be great and fix things, but I just don't get what it means to feel like a female? Does it just mean comfortable in your body (that happens to have female genitals)?

 

[ShinNL]

Well, not every situation of being transgender (or intersex, for that matter) is the same; there are various intersex conditions, issues relating to hormones, and all involve issues of one's gender identity not matching one's apparent physical sex. So with that in mind it is a bit difficult to answer your question directly.

But I think it is important to remember that the key thing is that for a transgender person there is incongruity between the physical sex (what you are describing) and the mental (the internal sense of being male or female), and correcting this is done by changing the body through hormone therapy and possibly surgery, because it is not possible to change a person's gender identity.

In the end it comes to using gender identity as the main argument, but as you can see a lot of people do not grasp this very concept. Maybe because most people are perfectly fine in their own bodies and never thought about being 'born in the wrong body', thus never tried to separate the body and mind (including me) as "different things". "I am me" is what most people know. To look in the mirror and having to say "That isn't me" seems to be a very foreign concept outside of movies and storytelling.

I conclude that I am unable to speak on this very subject, simply because it is impossible for me to grasp the concept of 'gender identity'.

Sexual orientation is much easier to understand. If people asked me "Why do you like woman?" my answer as a heterosexual would be "I don't know", which can promptly be replied with "For the same I-don't-know reasons, I like people from the same gender" by a homosexual.

 

[Cat Party]

I admit to some (likely baseless) skepticism about the circumstances of the child's identification, but if I'm the principal, and I'm seeing this kid who believes she is a girl in every way she can, I'm not telling the girl to use the boy's bathroom. It would be a tough decision to make, but I hope I could be brave enough to do it, because the pressure from parents must be insane.

The school is wrong here, but I respect that they are in uncharted waters.

 

[Artemisia]

it has one.

and a nurses bathroom they gave her the option of using.

Why should she be prohibited from using the girls bathroom?

 

[.GqueB.]

Double post?

 

[.GqueB.]

I'm not saying it's fair, but by that logic, why even have separate bathrooms?

Guys would stare and be all weird about it and women would be creeped out because we're creeps. You know they would. Let's not pretend we're actually mature enough for such a thing.

 

[RDreamer]

Why should she be prohibited from using the girls bathroom?

What defines the separation in girls bathroom and boys bathroom anyway? I mean what is the reason for the separation? Is it a separation based on physicality, or mentality? I always thought it was mainly a sexual thing. People would either gawk or be self conscious about it. But then the existence of gay people and their ability to go into the same bathroom basically voids that sort of thought right off the bat. A gay guy could pull up next to me in a urinal just fine and dandy, and it wouldn't be against any rules.

 

[Pau]

What does that mean, 'feeling like a female', though, if not being attracted towards 'feminine' behavior and disposition?

This is my question, too.

I get how one could possibly feel uncomfortable in their own body, as I've explained before, and I get how correcting that would be great and fix things, but I just don't get what it means to feel like a female? Does it just mean comfortable in your body (that happens to have female genitals)?

I'm not trans (and TransGAF, please correct me if I'm wrong), but as a cisgender girl I can tell you that feeling like a female literally means I feel and identify as female. That's it. Whether I'm "feminine" enough to feel like a female doesn't factor into it - or at least not as you seem to think. Actually, if you were to give my traits a gender based on today's society, I should be identifying as a man because I'm so "masculine". But no, I still identify as a girl. I imagine that it's the same for a lot of transwomen. Are some transwomen attracted towards typical "feminine" behavior and disposition? Of course. Not all are though and those that aren't still very much identify as and are women.

 

[Deleted member 20920]

But a mother parent or a father parent?

Does it matter? Knowing whether you're a dad or a mum doesn't automatically make a person a better parent. A good parent is a good parent.

What we refer to people matters a lot to them. I'm just trying to get the labels right. But ultimately, labels are not of much value to me, though it varies per person.

Does not really matter really...If my child choose to call me by a name other than dad I'll gladly allow him/her to do so.

As great as I think transgender kids have accepting parents, it always bother me how much of it could be an influence from the parents themselves. A huge amount of kids do cross dresing at least once, just as the response from a conservative parent being terrified is something terrible for the child, going "omg you are transgender" could also be harmful.

I'm not talking about this specific case since I don't know the details, but I do hope they are having professional psychiatric support.

I think someone said, in a previous thread, that there are professionals that the child has to see before a child can be said to be a transgender child. It's not exactly an easy process where the parents can just randomly declare the gender of their children. They probably had to be certified for them to even have the official records changed.

Also, I'm not sure why people complain about her purple hair. Didn't anyone of you wanted awesome hair colours when you were kids? There's nothing inherently wrong about dyed hair beyond possible health effects, She could also be wearing a wig. I mean aethetics wise, her purple hair sort of makes sense if you consider the colour pallete they were aiming for in that photo.

 

[RDreamer]

I'm not trans (and TransGAF, please correct me if I'm wrong), but as a cisgender girl I can tell you that feeling like a female literally means I feel and identify as female. That's it. Whether I'm "feminine" enough to feel like a female doesn't factor into it - or at least not as you seem to think. Actually, if you were to give my traits a gender based on today's society, I should be identifying as a man because I'm so "masculine". But no, I still identify as a girl. I imagine that it's the same for a lot of transwomen. Are some transwomen attracted towards typical "feminine" behavior and disposition? Of course. Not all are though and those that aren't still very much identify as and are women.

But you feel what and identify as what based on what?

You've ruled out behavior and disposition, rightfully. We've ruled out that your actual phsyical traits mean anything. So what exactly are you identifying with? I mean are you sure you're not just identifying with "female" because despite not fitting in a lot of ways you still fit in enough societally to identify with others that also call themselves females?

I mean I identify as a man, but I suppose when you separate out sexual orientation and perhaps some traditional gender roles altogether I literally only identify as that because I have a penis. Other than that fact I don't really feel "man."

 

[WorriedCitizen]

Watching the video of the kid made me wonder what she would identify as if gender roles wern't so stereotyped for boys and girls. She loves pink and loves dresses. What if in our society it was a-ok for boys to dress pink, wear dresses and play with Barbie? Likewise if girls playing with cars and running around in blue pants was a normal sight.
Would this kid still identify itself or being identified as a girl? To me these are social aspects that could be completely reversed in a different time and different culture.

Can a 6 year old kid actualy reflect about it's sexual physique that its absolutely sure it wants a vagina and not a penis? This for me would be the strongest indicator that the kid is actualy transgender and not just has a quirk for all stereotypical female things. From the video this isnt clear to me. It seems to be much about just the "girly stuff" and i think ther's a danger that the parents and the doctors are putting things in her head come puberty that maybe wouldn't be an issue at all if it was considered ok for a boy to do all the things that society considers to be for females.

That said she should be allowed to use the girls bathroom imo. I don't see a good argument against it.

 

[StarWolf]

Wouldn't letting it use the female bathroom set a bad precedent? All some perv would have to do is dress up as a woman, claim to be transgendered and then go into women's bathrooms/locker rooms etc.