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1st Grade Transgendered Student being barred from using Female Bathroom

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Dude Abides

Banned
im basing childhood development on what we know and have researched. A childs upbringing has everything to do with their cognitive development.

http://www.jstor.org/action/doBasic...velopment&hp=25&acc=off&aori=off&wc=on&fc=off

and like electricblanketfire stated, no one can come into this thread and wonder out loud how much the parents had to do with this without being targeted as some hateful person.

No shit parents influence their children. The claim that you are making is that the parents are doing this against the kid's will "because parents." Neither the article search nor the poor me whine explain why we should agree that the evil parents are manipulating the child into being someone she doesn't want to be.

There's a large pool of possibilities between being willfully a terrible parent and possibly pushing your child into something they may not have otherwise. It's perfectly possible that they saw this child very interested in things that normally a boy might not be. Maybe they heard the child make statements about wanting to be a girl or wondering what it would be like to be a girl or something like that, but then may have jumped a bit too far to identify her as transgendered. To note: I am not saying that's what happened. I'm just saying you can be well intentioned and misinformed and make mistakes like this very easily. We live in a society that pushes gender roles and norms very hard on children and I could see some parents getting a bit confused on things if their child didn't conform.

I said it was certainly possible in my first post. What we're being asked to assume is not just that it's possible, but that it is most likely what happened.
 
There's a large pool of possibilities between being willfully a terrible parent and possibly pushing your child into something they may not have otherwise. It's perfectly possible that they saw this child very interested in things that normally a boy might not be. Maybe they heard the child make statements about wanting to be a girl or wondering what it would be like to be a girl or something like that, but then may have jumped a bit too far to identify her as transgendered. To note: I am not saying that's what happened. I'm just saying you can be well intentioned and misinformed and make mistakes like this very easily. We live in a society that pushes gender roles and norms very hard on children and I could see some parents getting a bit confused on things if their child didn't conform.

I know you've said you don't identify as male, but which would you rather have been born with: A male body or a female body? Would you like to have boobs or no boobs? Would you rather have a penis or a vagina? Do you wish you could give birth?

I mean, as a girl, I'd rather have a girl body than a boy body.
 
Same shit as every trans thread ever, suddenly everyone is an expert on child development and what they're capable of except they don't ever bother to fucking look up milestones:

Youngsters actually begin developing strong gender identities long before middle childhood. A child's awareness of being a boy or a girl starts in the first year of life. It often begins by eight to ten months of age, when youngsters typ­ically discover their genitals. Then, between one and two years old, children become conscious of physical differences between boys and girls; before their third birthday they are easily able to label themselves as either a boy or a girl as they acquire a strong concept of self. By age four, children's gender identity is stable, and they know they will always be a boy or a girl.

During this same time of life, children learn gender role behavior—that is, do­ing things "that boys do" or "that girls do." Before the age of three they can dif­ferentiate sex-stereotyped toys (trucks, dolls) that are identified with boys or girls. By three years of age they have also become more aware of boy and girl ac­tivities, interests, and occupations; many begin to play with youngsters of their own sex in activities identified with that sex. For example, you probably saw your daughter gravitating toward dolls, playing house, and baking. By contrast, your son may have played more aggressive and active games and might have been attracted to toy soldiers and toy trucks. These gender role behaviors, in­cluding the toys children play with and activities, in which they engage, are in­fluenced by how youngsters are raised and what expectations are made of them.

In middle childhood, gender identification continues to become more firmly established, In middle childhood, gender identification continues to become more firmly established, not only in children's interest in playing more exclusively with youngsters of their own sex, but also in their interest in acting like, looking like, and having things like their same-sex peers. During this time of life you will see your child express his or her gender identity through gender-specific role behavior.

http://www.healthychildren.org/Engl...dentity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx
 

Juicy Bob

Member
You are correct in saying this isn't about sex. However one of the factors of gender is sexual preference. Point I'm trying to make is this kid probably has no idea about sex or most likely his own sexual preference, maybe does not even know the difference between a penis and vagina (thinking back to first grade i remember knowing about breasts on females but didn't have much thought beyond that.) It's just ridiculous for this to be an issue this early on when this kid has not developed to where he's thinking about any of this.
Actually, it isn't. Gender identity and sexuality are two entirely different things. Most of us determine whether we're male or female long before we realise who we want to have sex with.
 
D

Deleted member 20920

Unconfirmed Member
I don't see an age but i assume this kid is in a 6-8 age range. At most this kid was probably enjoying playing with dresses and barbies and his parents took over and forced him to identify as "transgender". I mean what's stopping this kid from waking up tomorrow and not being "transgender"? Have we heard anything from him?

This thing stinks of parents looking for attention.

Why would you say this? In what way did the article suggests that the parents are seeking for attention? There is a different between feeling like a girl and wanting to play with 'girly' toys. I'm sure cousellors could let the parents know the difference between whether their son just wants to play act/gender perform as a girl or really does feel like she is in the wrong body.

I don't know how what processes are needed for the parents to have gotten the child' sex changed to female on official identification so maybe someone can expand on that. But I doubt it is as easy as parents wanting to seek for attention and getting it changed that easily.

Actually, it isn't. Gender identity and sexuality are two entirely different things. Most of us determine whether we're male or female long before we realise who we want to have sex with.

This. I never had problems grasping my gender or my sex, even though as a kid I liked a mixture of boyish toys and girlish toys. And being gay certainly didn't make me feel like a girl or make me want to be a girl or make me feel like my body is wrong.
 

RDreamer

Member
I know you've said you don't identify as male, but which would you rather have been born with: A male body or a female body? Would you like to have boobs or no boobs? Would you rather have a penis or a vagina? Do you want to give birth?

I mean, as a girl, I'd rather have a girl body than a boy body.

Would it be hard to believe that quite honestly I don't think I have a preference? I suppose I might lean toward a male body because period shit seems a bit annoying, lol. I think I'd enjoy the concept of giving birth, but the pain involved would likely scare the fuck out of me. I have thought about what I'd do if I were female in that case, and I think my instincts for family would still get the better of me. I don't mind if I would be giving birth or if I had a wife if she did. My main concern is that I have a child at all.

I mean I guess I prefer to be male too just because that makes things easier because I think even were I a woman I'd prefer to be with women sexually, so in the case of having kids it would just make it easier if I were able to procreate with the people I was most sexually attracted to.
 

The Adder

Banned
I'm not quite certain I understand how a child that age would be able to self-identify their gender. It seems like a rather heavy topic for a person under 6 years old.

I ask this in open curiosity as I don't know a whole lot about transgender issues.

You knew what youwere at that age, right?
 

Dead Man

Member
This is completely ridiculous. Kid is literally less than 10 and is already identifying himself as transgender. In first grade is this kid knowing what he wants sexually? No. Of course not. That in and of itself is ridiculous. Let's move onto the bathroom issue. You have a penis use the mens. If you have a vagina use the females. Pretty simple guidelines.

When i was a kid i wanted to be batman but i didn't get to have my own frigging bathroom to change to bruce wayne and back.

Also how the hell does this kid have female identification on his passport? There's been no sex change surgery if i read the article correctly. Just bizarre. There's definitely a parental issue here.

Holy shit this is an ignorant post. Read the thread first, then post.
 

besada

Banned
I feel like you can't ask legitimate questions in this thread without being made to feel stupid or like a bigot.

I said legitimate. "Not LOL If he has a penis why does it think he's a girl?!!?" kind of questions.
What question do you feel you can't ask? The people getting banned aren't getting banned because they asked a question.
 

Angry Fork

Member
We should just get rid of separate bathrooms in general, it's likely where society will end up. The reasons given here for allowing this (there are separate stalls) apply to men too. Unless you're going to say all men are potential rapists, which still wouldn't be a good argument since any guy can walk into the women's bathroom and rape someone anyway.
 
Maybe the parents jumped the gun. They could have given the kid a little more time to figure things out before taking a stern path in one direction. This is a little heavy of a situation for a child to be expected to know and understand what it wants. I'm not sure what I would do though.

As for the bathrooms, you can't have someone who identifies as a girl go to the boys bathroom. That wouldn't be right for the mental health of the child. But of course the majority of parents won't understand and won't want to hear it, so I think the school is up against the wall on this one.
 

Sibylus

Banned
I don't see an age but i assume this kid is in a 6-8 age range. At most this kid was probably enjoying playing with dresses and barbies and his parents took over and forced him to identify as "transgender". I mean what's stopping this kid from waking up tomorrow and not being "transgender"? Have we heard anything from him?

This thing stinks of parents looking for attention.

You are correct in saying this isn't about sex. However one of the factors of gender is sexual preference. Point I'm trying to make is this kid probably has no idea about sex or most likely his own sexual preference, maybe does not even know the difference between a penis and vagina (thinking back to first grade i remember knowing about breasts on females but didn't have much thought beyond that.) It's just ridiculous for this to be an issue this early on when this kid has not developed to where he's thinking about any of this.

Was there even any bullying issues? Parents say they're "worried" but don't mention anything. Would kids even bully him? They'll probably wonder why he looks different ask questions (which are completely valid) but in 1st grade i don't he's going to be on the receiving end of transgender slurs.
Uh, you're giving me what I specifically asked you not to give: I'm interested in established fact, not more suppositions that her parents are overbearing social eugenicists who've built this entire identity for their child and forced it on her. You're inventing methods and motives as though you're the author of your own political drama here, but we're not dealing with a fictional canon of your own devising. This is a realm of medical science, statements on record, and track record. Your gut doesn't have any mileage in this country, nor does anyone's.

So again, can you show me something that's established? Your or mine's personal character judgement of the child and her parents aren't worth the pixels they're printed on.
 
Would it be hard to believe that quite honestly I don't think I have a preference? I suppose I might lean toward a male body because period shit seems a bit annoying, lol. I think I'd enjoy the concept of giving birth, but the pain involved would likely scare the fuck out of me. I have thought about what I'd do if I were female in that case, and I think my instincts for family would still get the better of me. I don't mind if I would be giving birth or if I had a wife if she did. My main concern is that I have a child at all.

I mean I guess I prefer to be male too just because that makes things easier because I think even were I a woman I'd prefer to be with women sexually, so in the case of having kids it would just make it easier if I were able to procreate with the people I was most sexually attracted to.

But have you ever wanted any of that?
 
Gotta find it funny that being an open minded parent who is willing to let their child be the person they want to be in spite or societies opinions are "leading their child on" and "telling them to do that." Yes, mommy and daddy are telling young Billy to get into a dress at his own behest because it means a lot if media attention.

Where do people get this stuff?

Not agreeing or disagreeing but I will say that we don't know the parents in this situation. We don't know what their intentions or motivations are one way or another. It's hard to speculate when we know absolutely nothing. They could be overbearing and slapping an agenda on their child or they could be the greatest, open-minded people ever. We really don't know.

As it stands, if the child truly identifies as a girl, she should be allowed to use the girl's washroom. Simple as that.
 
Gotta find it funny that being an open minded parent who is willing to let their child be the person they want to be in spite or societies opinions are "leading their child on" and "telling them to do that." Yes, mommy and daddy are telling young Billy to get into a dress at his own behest because it means a lot if media attention.

Where do people get this stuff?

Because it's only okay for society to dictate things.


Not agreeing or disagreeing but I will say that we don't know the parents in this situation. We don't know what their intentions or motivations are.

As it stands, if the child truly identifies as a girl, she should be allowed to use the girl's washroom. Simple as that.

This is always a hilarious line of questioning. Clearly the motivations of the parents must be worse than that of a society that pressures people into a binary system of gender separate interests, attitudes and expectations. Then treats people who don't conform like utter shit.
 

Angry Fork

Member
Gotta find it funny that being an open minded parent who is willing to let their child be the person they want to be in spite or societies opinions are "leading their child on" and "telling them to do that." Yes, mommy and daddy are telling young Billy to get into a dress at his own behest because it means a lot if media attention.

Where do people get this stuff?

There's nothing wrong with letting a kid do what he wants/feels is right, I think people are just skeptical of something so concrete as 'he is now a girl, forever' based on something like playing with barbies which I'm sure plenty of boys have done without mentally being a girl. It's a pretty permanent decision to make at such a young age that's all.
 

RDreamer

Member
Gotta find it funny that being an open minded parent who is willing to let their child be the person they want to be in spite or societies opinions are "leading their child on" and "telling them to do that." Yes, mommy and daddy are telling young Billy to get into a dress at his own behest because it means a lot if media attention.

Where do people get this stuff?

I understand where you're coming from and mostly agree. I think some people might be hung up on the fact that children like to push boundaries, change their mind on a whim, an test boundaries. They will sometimes say or so things just to see if they can. Now if they stick with it for a while there could be something legitimate there. I just think people worry that sometimes kids test boundaries and then parents quickly proclaim that's who they are, when it may be more of a test.

I do think it is silly that some are quick to condemn and/or accuse parents which they know absolutely nothing about, though.
 
Not agreeing or disagreeing but I will say that we don't know the parents in this situation. We don't know what their intentions or motivations are one way or another. It's hard to speculate when we know absolutely nothing. They could be overbearing and slapping an agenda on their child or they could be the greatest, open-minded people ever. We really don't know.

They have four other kids that are not transgendered, I can't imagine that they thought "hey, with this triplet, let's try something wacky!"
 

commedieu

Banned
Gotta find it funny that being an open minded parent who is willing to let their child be the person they want to be in spite or societies opinions are "leading their child on" and "telling them to do that." Yes, mommy and daddy are telling young Billy to get into a dress at his own behest because it means a lot if media attention.

Where do people get this stuff?

The awareness isn't out there. People still think these are choices people are making, or being convinced to make. Yet, ask them when did they decide to be straight. You'll get -_- back. Ask them who is to blame for them being straight...

Gaf has these threads all the time. All it does is expose how far the LGBT community has to go educating the masses. Science is behind LGBT, as is nature. Its just convincing people that their opinions don't override reality.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Same shit as every trans thread ever, suddenly everyone is an expert on child development and what they're capable of except they don't ever bother to fucking look up milestones:



http://www.healthychildren.org/Engl...dentity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx
But that explicitly explains gender identity as a function of physical gender. It's facile to see how a boy can identify as a boy at an early age, it doesn't require any knowledge of self only an understanding of classification. A boy identifying as a girl requires a much more complicated thought process or intuition or combination of both as it breaks the simple rules a child lives by and requires a complex understanding of gender.
 

Levyne

Banned
My little brother played with barbies when he was younger, but never identified himself as anything but a guy. It's not like something as trivial as that could be used as "evidence"anyways. Luckily my parents didn't care and bought him what he wanted and let him do what he liked that didn't harm anyone else. Any kid should have that luxury.
 
But that explicitly explains gender identity as a function of physical gender. It's facile to see how a boy can identify as a boy at an early age, it doesn't require any knowledge of self only an understanding of classification. A boy identifying as a girl requires a much more complicated thought process or intuition or combination of both as it breaks the simple rules a child lives by and requires a complex understanding of gender.

It explains that people who want to act like this kid can't possibly understand gender are frankly full of shit. If a child can understand gender and the expectations that comes with it, there is not much of a leap when it comes to realizing there is a mismatch within themselves.
 

Mission

Member
Same shit as every trans thread ever, suddenly everyone is an expert on child development and what they're capable of except they don't ever bother to fucking look up milestones:
During this same time of life, children learn gender role behavior—that is, do­ing things "that boys do" or "that girls do." Before the age of three they can dif­ferentiate sex-stereotyped toys (trucks, dolls) that are identified with boys or girls. By three years of age they have also become more aware of boy and girl ac­tivities, interests, and occupations; many begin to play with youngsters of their own sex in activities identified with that sex. For example, you probably saw your daughter gravitating toward dolls, playing house, and baking. By contrast, your son may have played more aggressive and active games and might have been attracted to toy soldiers and toy trucks. These gender role behaviors, in­cluding the toys children play with and activities, in which they engage, are in­fluenced by how youngsters are raised and what expectations are made of them.

http://www.healthychildren.org/Engl...dentity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx

I'm not sure how helpful this one is. At this age my daughter was indistinguishable from any other girl. The same dolls and other girl play. It wasn't until 5 or 6 that she became distinctly tom-boy and decided she preferred to dress like the boys and take on more activities like the boys. Of course (probably like yourself) that didn't reflect either her gender or her sexuality. She was and is still a girl and now that she's entering puberty she's making distinctly more feminine clothing choices again despite her activity preference remaining the same. All of these decisions were made against duress (word chosen carefully - I don't mean negativity, just not enthusiasm) from her parents. The first being warnings that she would have trouble with acceptance if she dressed like a boy, and then later from confusion this summer when she made a seemingly overnight choice to dress more feminine where she had completely shunned it before. Then again maybe tom-boys throw a wrench into that because its mostly about preference rather than either gender or sexuality.
 

RDreamer

Member
But have you ever wanted any of that?

I have wondered and kind of wanted to know what it would feel like, sure, but I suppose most people have wanted to know that.

I dunno what else to say, though, I just don't feel like I have an overly strong preference or attachment to being "male." Would it be annoying if suddenly tomorrow I woke up as a woman? Sure, because that would mess with some child birthing plans with my wife down the road, and I may worry about how much she's attracted to me, but other than that would I feel so out of place? I'm not entirely sure. I feel like I could adapt. But that's such a farfetched scenario that I don't know.
 

Rubbish King

The gift that keeps on giving
I dont really know much about this but the boy thinks he's a girl? So does that mean we have to call him a girl now?

Surely mental and physical things are different....

I really dont understand the outrage, biologically he is male, he should use the male toilets. what's there to argue?

Perhaps I'm missing something, I'm not very well informed in this department..

I feel like you can't ask legitimate questions in this thread without being made to feel stupid or like a bigot.

I said legitimate. "Not LOL If he has a penis why does it think he's a girl?!!?" kind of questions.

I was debating posting for this exact reason, then I thought, fuck it.. I shouldnt be scared to post because of the subject
 
I'm not sure how helpful this one is. At this age my daughter was indistinguishable from any other girl. The same dolls and other girl play. It wasn't until 5 or 6 that she became distinctly tom-boy and decided she preferred to dress like the boys and take on more activities like the boys. Of course (probably like yourself) that didn't reflect either her gender or her sexuality. She was and is still a girl and now that she's entering puberty she's making distinctly more feminine clothing choices again despite her activity preference remaining the same. All of these decisions were made against duress (word chosen carefully - I don't mean negativity, just not enthusiasm) from her parents. The first being warnings that she would have trouble with acceptance if she dressed like a boy, and then later from confusion this summer when she made a seemingly overnight choice to dress more feminine where she had completely shunned it before. Then again maybe tom-boys throw a wrench into that because its mostly about preference rather than either gender or sexuality.

I was a tomboy myself, it goes a bit farther than interests, hence the whole point of gender therapy and all that. I wasn't gender dysmorphic. Sounds like she (your daughter) isn't either. These kids see plenty of specialists, it's not just the parents declaring this or that.
 

TCRS

Banned
It explains that people who want to act like this kid can't possibly understand gender are frankly full of shit. If a child can understand gender and the expectations that comes with it, there is not much of a leap when it comes to realizing there is a mismatch within themselves.

Which doesn't mean that they actually understand what is going on and that they are transgender. And the fact that parents might have misunderstood their kid still can't be ruled out.
 
This idea of getting kids on hormones before puberty bothers me. I have no problem with them making the choice after a proper age post puberty. Not trying to come off as a bigot, the human body is a complicated thing. Meddling with it so early does not sit right with me. If this child wants to dress and be associated with females then so be it. Just on the medical side I will disagree until nature has run its course.
 
Which doesn't mean that they actually understand what is going on and that they are transgender. And the fact that parents might have misunderstood their kid still can't be ruled out.

You know how many specialists and doctors these kids see? The parents can't just declare this or that.
 
The kid has access to a third, neutral option in the nurse's bathroom. I think that was a good compromise given the situation.

Hell, I would lie and pretend to be transgendered just to have the private bathroom all to myself!

No I wouldn't.

They should have had this rule established at the start of the year, not half way through. I would have let the child finish the first year as was established, then enforce the new rule the following year.
 

Cyan

Banned
I dont really know much about this but the boy thinks he's a girl? So does that mean we have to call him a girl now?

Surely mental and physical things are different....

I really dont understand the outrage, biologically he is male, he should use the male toilets. what's there to argue?

Perhaps I'm missing something, I'm not very well informed in this department..

You might try checking out the OP of this thread, it has a lot of good information for those not well-informed.

I was debating posting for this exact reason, then I thought, fuck it.. I shouldnt be scared to post because of the subject

You don't have to be scared just because you don't know much about it. But in a contentious topic, it certainly behooves you to try to become informed. :)
 
As a fellow tomboy, I also did not at any point in my childhood actually feel like I was a boy trapped in the wrong body.

I enjoyed girls' clothes when I played dress-up at that age. I knew it was 'wrong' (unusual, whatever), but I knew I was a boy.

Perhaps I'm missing something, I'm not very well informed in this department. [...] I was debating posting for this exact reason, then I thought, fuck it.. I shouldnt be scared to post because of the subject

Spend some time reading this thread from page one and viewing the linked videos about this kid and the lecture that Lexi posted.
 
This idea of getting kids on hormones before puberty bothers me. I have no problem with them making the choice after a proper age post puberty. Not trying to come off as a bigot, the human body is a complicated thing. Meddling with it so early does not sit right with me. If this child wants to dress and be associated with females then so be it. Just on the medical side I will disagree until nature has run its course.

They don't take hormones, they take hormone blockers. It allows them to delay puberty so they can make the choice.
 

Mission

Member
I was a tomboy myself, it goes a bit farther than interests, hence the whole point of gender therapy and all that. I wasn't gender dysmorphic. Sounds like she (your daughter) isn't either. These kids see plenty of specialists, it's not just the parents declaring this or that.

And that last line is what too many people in the thread are ignoring. These conclusions aren't just reached by the parents. My quoting you was really just saying that I thought the quote you chose was focused too particularly on the toys and activities a boy or girl might gravitate to, as if it was an indicator. But as a tomboy you know that those two things aren't necessarily good indicators. My daughter, like yourself, is still a girl, and yet those traits they mentioned both changed shortly after the age mentioned (3 or 4) and some of them kept evolving.

I agree the big difference is whether the child is actually gender dysmorphic, just that those 2 indicators (toy preference, type of dress) don't work so well.
 

Sibylus

Banned
This idea of getting kids on hormones before puberty bothers me. I have no problem with them making the choice after a proper age post puberty. Not trying to come off as a bigot, the human body is a complicated thing. Meddling with it so early does not sit right with me. If this child wants to dress and be associated with females then so be it. Just on the medical side I will disagree until nature has run its course.
"Nature running its course" in this case is practically a guarantee of submerging a trans child in even deeper dysphoria, advocating that it should isn't by any means doing the child a service. And I think you're a bit mixed up as procedure goes. Puberty blockers to give the child time to contemplate and decide is the standard course, not just dumping the desired hormones on them immediately and without a second thought.
 

besada

Banned
They have four other kids that are not transgendered, I can't imagine that they thought "hey, with this triplet, let's try something wacky!"
Not to mention as a possessor of a state ID in Colorado, she was required to have a medical professional sign off on her gender identity.
 
I have wondered and kind of wanted to know what it would feel like, sure, but I suppose most people have wanted to know that.

You're confusing "wanting to know" and "wanting to feel like" with "wanting to have." Have you ever really, really wanted to have a female body so much that you hate your own? Have you ever had the thought that it would just feel right to be a girl?
 
D

Deleted member 20920

Unconfirmed Member
I'm not sure how helpful this one is. At this age my daughter was indistinguishable from any other girl. The same dolls and other girl play. It wasn't until 5 or 6 that she became distinctly tom-boy and decided she preferred to dress like the boys and take on more activities like the boys. Of course (probably like yourself) that didn't reflect either her gender or her sexuality. She was and is still a girl and now that she's entering puberty she's making distinctly more feminine clothing choices again despite her activity preference remaining the same. All of these decisions were made against duress (word chosen carefully - I don't mean negativity, just not enthusiasm) from her parents. The first being warnings that she would have trouble with acceptance if she dressed like a boy, and then later from confusion this summer when she made a seemingly overnight choice to dress more feminine where she had completely shunned it before. Then again maybe tom-boys throw a wrench into that because its mostly about preference rather than either gender or sexuality.

I would say that being transgendered goes beyond whether one wants to dress as a boy or a girl.

To be honest, maybe the using of the term "identify" isn't the best to explain what non-cis people feel. So many people just randomly and ignorantly attack the use of identity and identify with stupid questions like "what if your son wanted/identified with a dinosaur/batman/house???".

Also the comments on that news article is mostly hideous...People saying she'll end up being in a life of drugs and whatnot...

I watched the video that was with the article and the mother said that she first thought her daughter was "just a little boy that likes girl's things" when she starting expressing that she wanted to be a girl when she was 18 months. They later noticed that she was getting depressed and finally brought her to seek medical professional help. So it wasn't like they just said "welp our son's a daughter!" on their own. There was actually a process that they went through.
 
And that last line is what too many people in the thread are ignoring. These conclusions aren't just reached by the parents. My quoting you was really just saying that I thought the quote you chose was focused too particularly on the toys and activities a boy or girl might gravitate to, as if it was an indicator. But as a tomboy you know that those two things aren't necessarily good indicators. My daughter, like yourself, is still a girl, and yet those traits they mentioned both changed shortly after the age mentioned (3 or 4) and some of them kept evolving.

I agree the big difference is whether the child is actually gender dysmorphic, just that those 2 indicators (toy preference, type of dress) don't work so well.

Well interests divergent from the established norm can tip some off to there possibly being more there than meets the eye. They are not sole indicators but do establish a pattern of behavior.


Don't hormones make a large impact on gender association?

Did you feel as though you were a boy or girl before your balls dropped?
 

Rubbish King

The gift that keeps on giving
After reading the thread Cyan posted I think I kinda understand it a little better...however if I switch the sexes around I think it's weird... I wouldnt want a woman coming into the mens toilet.. Even when younger...the thought makes me quite uncomfortable...I dont really know why... It just seems to be a biological thing

Men use the mens

Women use the womens

Is this view frowned upon?

Did you feel as though you were a boy or girl before your balls dropped?
I think puberty is a very important stage in identifying sexuality and...as for..well alot of things in general, puberty is a pretty damn important stage of growing up

My mums friend (One of the few lesbians I actually know) said that she wasnt really sure about stuff untill the hormones settled down after puberty...something along those lines at least

If they do the hormone block thing, will they never go through puberty?
 
After reading the thread Cyan posted I think I kinda understand it a little better...however if I switch the sexes around I think it's weird... I wouldnt want a woman coming into the mens toilet.. Even when younger...the thought makes me quite uncomfortable...I dont really know why... It just seems to be a biological thing

Men use the mens

Women use the womens

Is this view frowned upon?

She's a girl. So essentially you'd have problems with her in your bathroom. You're arguing in her favor without even realizing.
 

Sibylus

Banned
I think puberty is a very important stage in identifying sexuality and...as for..well alot of things in general, puberty is a pretty damn important stage of growing up

My mums friend (One of the few lesbians I actually know) said that she wasnt really sure about stuff untill the hormones settled down after puberty...something along those lines at least

If they do the hormone block thing, will they never go through puberty?
Whether the individual decides to transition or not, they will go through puberty at some stage. If they decide in favor of transition, their puberty will be facilitated by hormone replacement therapy.
 

THRILLH0

Banned
Stuff like this will honestly probably make us look at the whole separated bathrooms thing in general. It probably needs to go. I would miss the in an out no nonsense and space saving urinal, but we may as well just slap stalls in all bathrooms and get rid of the boys/girls room shit.

Funny that 98% of proponents of this idea are male.

We live in a world where gender-based societal divisions exist. I don't understand why so many people think this is an inherently bad thing.

I feel for the girl in this instance but I have a question: if another child claimed to be confused about their gender and identified equally as male and female, should that child be able to use both bathrooms arbitrarily?
 
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