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[NEOPARADIGM]

Bros before hoes is now the cause of serious outrage?

I think posts like this are what fuel these kinds of half-assed discussions where people throw around insults and intentionally mislead the thread into thinking people are "outraged" or the like.

Nobody's fucking outraged.

Sorta hope they remove that trophy or change the name of it. I can imagine something like that making the news and giving the game publicity for the wrong reasons.

That trophy name is crass and disappointing that SSM would stoop that low.

Poorly named trophy, bottom line.

It's not the end of the world, it's just crass and uncalled for. That's all.

Those posts along with Sessler's review is about the extent of it.

"GAF loves to get outraged" (i.e. TeethDummy's initial and persistent insistence that this NOT turn into a debate) is fueling this "debate" moreso than anything anyone here's actually posted. From what I've read, anyway. Maybe I'm missing some posts that contain more "outrage."

 

[Derrick01]

You kill a female monster and get the trophy

Spoiler

Bros before Hoes

NOW ARN'T YOU ANGRY AT THIS UNFORGIVABLE SEXISM

sessler come on

One of my ex girlfriends years ago said that phrase to me when I was going to go out with friends one night. It's a phrase that has no real serious meaning anymore, if it ever did. Talk about making a big deal out of literally nothing.

 

[zoukka]

Again, there seems to be more offended people over the fact that Sessler was "offended" (lol who believes that anyway).

 

[Roland Deschain]

It took people six games to be outraged at misogyny in God of War games?

Yeah, and now when they try add some extra dimension to Kratos people are complaining too. It was the right way to go though.

 

[Narolf]

Oh nothing, it's not difficult to come to terms with at all. I'm quite familiar with how attention-seekers love to let everyone around them know just how offended their delicate and exquisite moral sensibilities are at the most meaningless things.

I was just pointing out how hilariously hypocritical it is in this regard.

Luckily the PS3's wireless controllers have excellent range, so you'll be able to play (and get offended by) the game just fine from atop your politically correct high horse.

Missing the joke.

 

[AgentP]

Why is Aegis reviewing Sony first party game? Let's stop with this charade that he doesn't dislike anything Sony.

It was him? (I didn't click), that would explain the 7/10 when every other crap game gets a 9/10.

 

[ironcreed]

Mixed bag, but generally good. Will be a great play through for the presentation. Glad I decided to rent.

 

[T.M. MacReady]

The trophy pops after you graphically beat the shit out of a female character's face. People who are complaining are complaining about the context, the interaction between the game content and the trophy text. NOBODY is complaining about the mere phrase "bros before hoes" and nobody is complaining that you beat up a character brutally in a God of War game. It's the two things together that create a potentially offensive or insensitive meaning.

Female character = Demon from Hades that is trying to kill you.

Lighten up, Kratos isn't beating up some 20 year old girl for no reason.

 

[Tallshortman]

Was Sessler trying to take advantage of people saying Games Journalism was too kind to games by manufacturing a stupid controversy that's literally nothing? So dumb, how about you focus on things that actually matter.

 

[Globox_82]

Sessler is irrelevant to me since he had his Sly 4 rant. I almost believied him. Didn't play the game for 2 weeks, then I gave it a try and guess what it is best Sly game so far, ha...

I like how he ends his review with "I really really wanted to like this game". He said the same crap for Sly.

 

[Verendus]

HUGELY flawed argument on whether or not Kratos is boring. People don't buy GoW for Kratos, the buy it for the action. Keaton's was boring 3 games ago.

No, they don't.

People's investment is needed outside of just "action" to make a series extremely popular. They bought God of War because of a combination of things. One of those things was Kratos' journey and the characters vengeance. Even stuff like Devil May Cry, which doesn't sell gang-busters (averages around 1-2 million), has a dedicated fanbase who want the Dante character in there. These will likely be die hard action gameplay fans. Yet, they still want that character. It's an emotional engagement on their end.

That's because when you're introduced to a new world, a new setting, a new mechanic, something you end up really enjoying, you'll identify with the protagonist that you shared that journey with. He's your first point of connection. It happens with most fans.

If you just crap out action games like Platinum do, and don't take the time to build everything around them to a much higher quality, you'll never reach a high level of success. It works, but to a limited degree only.

God of War doesn't necessarily need the Kratos character to always be present in the future, but he is part of that world that was introduced to the fans. An integral part, and people will expect him to be in there if the journey has not ended. With a clear ending now with God of War 3, the door is open to really change things. However, by re-inventing things, you may not necessarily achieve the same level of success that you did with the Kratos character and setting, and some fans could naturally go away. The question is whether you can build new ones in their place or potentially retain them also with a new appealing character and setting.

 

[famousmortimer]

Why is Aegis reviewing Sony first party game? Let's stop with this charade that he doesn't dislike anything Sony.

As soon as I clicked on the link and saw he was reviewing it I shut the tab. I have no problem with god of war getting middling reviews... in fact the series to me has always been a solid 7. But gies has never been able to hide his disdain for anything sony to the point of tweeting "My ps3 broke, anyone know where i can get a cheap blu-ray player?"

Hating the ps3 or sony or whatever is fine, but being so open about it is bound to make people think that you, perhaps, have a bias. Which if you're some kid on neogaf - whatever. If you are the reviews editor of a site... well, yeah. Ok.

 

[Demon Ice]

Female character = Demon from Hades that is trying to kill you.

Lighten up, Kratos isn't beating up some 20 year old girl for no reason.

Hey man, Furies have feelings too.

Apparently.

 

[LightofRohan]

I didn't even notice that trophy...

What? Who cares. And that scene wasn't that graphic...

But GOW3 > GOWA > GOW2 > GOW1 > GOWPSP

 

[Alcoholikaust]

It took people six games to be outraged at misogyny in God of War games?

thank you

 

[Globox_82]

Not that it matters since game will sell great regardless, but this hunt on big Sony IPs is funny. Same fate expects Uncharted 4. Bookmark this comment.

 

[Narolf]

As soon as I clicked on the link and saw he was reviewing it I shut the tab. I have no problem with god of war getting middling reviews... in fact the series to me has always been a solid 7. But gies has never been able to hide his disdain for anything sony to the point of tweeting "My ps3 broke, anyone know where i can get a cheap blu-ray player?"

Hating the ps3 or sony or whatever is fine, but being so open about it is bound to make people think that you, perhaps, have a bias. Which if you're some kid on neogaf - whatever. If you are the reviews editor of a site... well, yeah. Ok.

Moreover on GAF quite franky, and rightfully so.

 

[meta4]

As soon as I clicked on the link and saw he was reviewing it I shut the tab. I have no problem with god of war getting middling reviews... in fact the series to me has always been a solid 7. But gies has never been able to hide his disdain for anything sony to the point of tweeting "My ps3 broke, anyone know where i can get a cheap blu-ray player?"

Hating the ps3 or sony or whatever is fine, but being so open about it is bound to make people think that you, perhaps, have a bias. Which if you're some kid on neogaf - whatever. If you are the reviews editor of a site... well, yeah. Ok.

I completely think the score is justified but I really dont think anyone should pay attention to aegies reviews of Sony stuff. He is one of the most open console warriors and is not at all subtle about it.

 

[Shtof]

79 on Metacritic as we speak. That's what you get for trying to cater to the CoD crowd. First mainline God of War I won't be picking up at launch. Might consider SP if they split it up and let me purchase only that.

 

[ezekielpacman]

Yes, of course he was. Strange since the latest main entry happens to be the best selling in the series.

SSM has two options. Do a drastic thing, and take a different approach to the next God of War entry. It'll take you 2 to 3 years to finally get it out of the door, and you'll do it a time when Sony will be preparing for the PS4. Sure, you might get critical acclaim, it might feel fresh, but you're taking a big risk and you'll be getting lost in the next generation shuffle.

Alternatively, you have your engine ready, and you can provide another solid entry in the God of War franchise. While it may not be revolutionary or drastically different, it gives you a little chance to experiment with multiplayer, but provide another good single player experience for God of War fans. The project won't cost that money either and will give you more time to think about the future of the franchise to ensure you don't mess it up. Fans will likely enjoy the game, you'll make plenty of money since it's bound to be a good success, and you still have the opportunity available to re-invent God of War on the PS4.

If it was me, I would fire the person responsible for going the first route in this case. It's much smarter to go the second route.

The reason why I basicalled laughed off Platinum is because it's a tired old thing people repeat. Yeah, they make good games, but do you know how much Platinums games sell in comparison to God of War? It's not even worth discussing. They are basically bombas in comparison since they sell less than even stuff like Resistance. What did Bayonetta sell? 1 million? What did Vanquish sell? Not even that. God of War 3 sold over 5 million. Platinums most successful game is seemingly going to end up being Metal Gear Rising, the game which is part of one of the biggest franchises in gaming. And even that will likely not touch the likes of God of War.

Which IP have Platinum created that is extremely successful? They haven't.

There is a lot more that goes into God of War than just combat. It's the presentation, the ridiculous aesthetics, combined with the combat and setting. Platinum probably couldn't pull off half of what SSM do with the PS3. Why would any business risk their franchise in that manner? When the God of War fanbase, the ones who go out there and buy millions of copies, expect that as a standard?

SSM can re-invent God of War themselves when the time is right. And the time for that certainly isn't 6 months before the launch of the PS4.

My golly gosh, you make an absurd amount of sense.

 

[T.M. MacReady]

"GAF loves to get outraged" (i.e. TeethDummy's initial and persistent insistence that this NOT turn into a debate) is fueling this "debate" moreso than anything anyone here's actually posted.

I am guilty of this in some regard, I don't deny it. But there's plenty of hyperbole on both sides, the people you quoted weren't really the people anyone was arguing with. Though I think Vire got into it with someone else a few pages back. We've all gone a bit too far here. I was really just shocked that people got so upset and then defensive over something so minor.

Hopefully the OT goes up soon and we can get back to scheduled God of War discussion without this silly debate.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Female character = Demon from Hades that is trying to kill you.

Lighten up, Kratos isn't beating up some 20 year old girl for no reason.

I have no problem with killing a female enemy in a video game. I'm not going to be offended when I play the game and see the trophy. I do think it's obvious WHY there's potential offense here, and it all could have been avoided. One unfunny joke isn't worth the trouble given the growing discussion about gender issues in the games industry.

Also this:

The idea that misogyny is impossible when a female goddess or other anthropomorphized female is used as a stand-in for a woman is absurd.

 

[Margalis]

Regarding the trophy title, I do think it's kinda dumb and can see why people might find it offensive, but at the same time, it apparently is in the context of a creature that's not even human and is one of the main villains of the game so I don't think it's quite as bad as some are making it out to be.

The idea that misogyny is impossible when a female goddess or other anthropomorphized female is used as a stand-in for a woman is absurd. Claiming that a female goddess is not technically a woman is a bizarre sort of rules-lawyering that ignores any sense. It's like claiming that WW2 era comic books that featured a heroic American fighting yellow-skinned clawed demons were not racist since those were demons and totally not Asians.

Especially if you are familiar with Greek mythology, which frequently uses gods, animals, etc to make points about humans. In Greek mythology gods are not particularly different from humans - they are more powerful but have similar morals and cognitive abilities, intermingle with humans, can produce offspring with humans, etc.

That's not to say the scene or game is misogynistic. Just to say that claiming it somehow can't be by definition is silly. The fact that you can even call the "creature" a ho means that it is similar to a woman. If in the game you killed a goat that just happened to be female "bros before hos" wouldn't make much sense.

 

[moolhy]

Bring on the reviews!

gif

WHAT THE FUCK GUY?! Spoiler that shit.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Sessler probably overreacted, but at least some people are starting to care about the overall message a game sends and at least he's going with describing his actual emotional reaction to the game. Most reviewers just check off boxes for features and describe how well the game works which makes them really boring to read/watch. Adding in personal reaction and analysis of its artistic merit at least can make reviews interesting.

 

[IHaveCandy]

See this is the major problem - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=OkG_vfVcMXQ#t=49s

The exact same enemy and exact same kill animation. Why?? Why did SSM put so much effort on MP but not even bother to change stuff like this. This is what I meant by a lack of ambition when it comes to SP.

Seriously? Did you flip out and get pissed off when you saw cyclops, sirens and satyrs return? We've been killing Medusas the exact same way since GoW2.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

WHAT THE FUCK GUY?! Spoiler that shit.

It was in a trailer. If you're on complete media blackout then it's on you to stay out of the thread.

 

[sflufan]

Adding in personal reaction and analysis of its artistic merit at least can make reviews interesting.

That's the purpose of a critique, not a review.

 

[nordique]

I can't wait to play this game


Love God of War

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

Wait a minute.

This is important.

The plural of "ho" - is it "hos" or "hoes"?

"Hos" makes more sense grammatically, but looks weird.

"Hoes" looks better since it lines up with "goes", but reminds me of the garden tool.

The level of my outrage depends on the correct answer.

 

[Huff]

One of my ex girlfriends years ago said that phrase to me when I was going to go out with friends one night. It's a phrase that has no real serious meaning anymore, if it ever did. Talk about making a big deal out of literally nothing.

I'm a fan of sessler, watching the review was just a big eye roll. like really, sess

 

[LightofRohan]

WHAT THE FUCK GUY?! Spoiler that shit.

I know, I didn't want to say anything :|

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Sessler probably overreacted, but at least some people are starting to care about the overall message a game sends and at least he's going with describing his actual emotional reaction to the game. Most reviewers just check off boxes for features and describe how well the game works which makes them really boring to read/watch. Adding in personal reaction and analysis of its artistic merit at least can make reviews interesting.

That's dumb! Don't take games so seriously! They're just toys for children and man-children with no real meaning at all!

 

[Tookay]

That's the purpose of a critique, not a review.

Is there supposed to be a distinction?

 

[IHaveCandy]

The idea that misogyny is impossible when a female goddess or other anthropomorphized female is used as a stand-in for a woman is absurd. Claiming that a female goddess is not technically a woman is a bizarre sort of rules-lawyering that ignores any sense. It's like claiming that WW2 era comic books that featured a heroic American fighting yellow-skinned clawed demons were not racist since those were demons and totally not Asians.

Especially if you are familiar with Greek mythology, which frequently uses gods, animals, etc to make points about humans. In Greek mythology gods are not particularly different from humans - they are more powerful but have similar morals and cognitive abilities, intermingle with humans, can produce offspring with humans, etc.

That's not to say the scene or game is misogynistic. Just to say that claiming it somehow can't be by definition is silly. The fact that you can even call the "creature" a ho means that it is similar to a woman. If in the game you killed a goat that just happened to be female "bros before hos" wouldn't make much sense.

I don't think he means "Well technically she isn't a female human". I think he means "The furies kill and torment many people. They aren't innocent women being abused by a male-power fantasy."

 

[Wynnebeck]

79 on Metacritic as we speak. That's what you get for trying to cater to the CoD crowd. First mainline God of War I won't be picking up at launch. Might consider SP if they split it up and let me purchase only that.

 

[Loudninja]

Each weapon has a dozen or more moves associated with it that showcase a different visual effect in battle; and the fact that you can switch between these elemental weapons with a simple press of the d-pad means you now have access to an unprecedented amount of moves. As a result, combat is a hard-fought, flurry of flashes that produces a kaleidoscope of colours, inevitably leading to the chance to run in close to a downed enemy to trigger a short QTE, perhaps pulling their sword from out of their grasp, slicing their legs off and then ramming it through their skull.

http://www.psu.com/a018637/God-of-War--Ascension-Review?page=2

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

That's the purpose of a critique, not a review.

The purpose of both is to tell you whether something is worthwhile in a variety of ways. For video games I don't see why there needs to be a serious distinction. Both kinds of evaluations are available for those who seek them.

 

[IHaveCandy]

That's dumb! Don't take games so seriously! They're just toys for children and man-children with no real meaning at all!

In this case, you really shouldn't take a trophy name that is meant to make a dumb joke seriously.

 

[Roland Deschain]

Not that it matters since game will sell great regardless, but this hunt on big Sony IPs is funny. Same fate expects Uncharted 4. Bookmark this comment.

"This hunt"? Like getting good to great reviews like this game? Give me a break...

 

[Cartman86]

That's the purpose of a critique, not a review.

You are really going to stand behind that aren't you? Good luck.

 

[R1CHO]

I'm a fan of sessler, watching the review was just a big eye roll. like really, sess

I actually laugh my ass off with his reaction. Joke is soooo dumb to make a big deal about it, shining armor too much Sessler.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Scores look better than average but nothing great. I will reserve judgment. Ascension seems to have more variety in environments than GoW3 which is something I look forward to.

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

79 on Metacritic as we speak. That's what you get for trying to cater to the CoD crowd. First mainline God of War I won't be picking up at launch. Might consider SP if they split it up and let me purchase only that.

So every game with multiplayer is a CoD ripoff now?

 

[The Bookerman]

What is so drastically different from God of war 3 that this game warrents a 70/60 rating?

Spoiler

Bros before Hos ?

Pacing?
I mean, I've played 70/60 games, and they aren't this polished.

Guess I'll have to play it.

 

[Margalis]

I don't think he means "Well technically she isn't a female human". I think he means "The furies kill and torment many people. They aren't innocent women being abused by a male-power fantasy."

Multiple people in this thread latched specifically onto the notion that furies are technically not human women and thus something involving them cannot be misogyny by definition.

The poster I responded to mentioned the not human part, and other posters have devoted entire posts to that. That's what I was addressing.

Edit: I have no opinion on whether or not it is misogynistic. Just that the idea that it can't be by definition is absurd.

 

[Adam Blue]

This whole thing has bothered me, and I decided to get it off my chest on my blog:

As I mentioned in my previous blog post, video games are still an alien art form, and Arthur Gies may have accidentally proved that there are some in our generation that can’t discern from other works of art. Anyone can simply dismiss the Saw films because of what they are, but to review God of War and make that statement shows how we still lump video games together as just that, and not an entertainment device with many intricate parts.

 

[pakkit]

From the Polygon review: "The brutal, bone-shattering assault on a realistic female avatar was horrific regardless of its context, the imagery too loaded for me to shrug it off as just another God of War Moment TM. And then the assault was robbed of any narrative impact whatsoever by a throwaway story device. It didn't matter. I had to watch it happen and then it didn't mean anything. And then approximately 45 seconds later, I unlocked a trophy called "Bros before Hos."

Christ.

 

[Voice of Reason]

I actually laugh my ass off with his reaction. Joke is soooo dumb to make a big deal about it, shining armor too much Sessler.

Yeah, sometimes I feel he's trying too hard.

 

[jett]

What is so drastically different from God of war 3 that this game warrents a 70/60 rating?

Spoiler

Bros before Hos ?

Pacing?
I mean, I've played 70/60 games, and they aren't this polished.

Guess I'll have to play it.

You haven't even played it and yet you called anyone that gave it a 7/10 a goddamn idiot. :thumbsup