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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!

Dahbomb

Member
For the record I don't think Morrigan needs any substantial nerf outside of maybe not having the character lose 60% health from AV fireball juggling.

But Wolverine generally still has options in the event of a happy birthday. Could they limit Hightime to only strike a point character? I don't think that's an option with how the hitboxes in this game work, and the alternative leads to being punished by trying to capitalize off a happy birthday.
New Happy Birthday combo with Vergil:

H S j. H j. S st.H Stinger S j.H Hyper

Easy as hell and will do solid damage. Or you can go for the BnB on the point character and the assist character will drop out.

What this is meant to stop is Helm Breaker -> Happy Birthday -> High Time (X Factor) -> 2 characters dead. It's really hard to pressure Vergil without an assist and sometimes you need to take that risk with an assist where as for Vergil, he only has the Helm Breaker option so he is going to do it no matter what. This just leads into a uncertain situation where either the attacker wins and Vergil dies or Vergil gets Helm Breaker and he wins the game.

To be honest this IS a long shot change because like you said, the hit boxes won't work out unless they especially add a property to the Hightime. I just gave a suggested solution to a problem.
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
For the record I don't think Morrigan needs any substantial nerf outside of maybe not having the character lose 60% health from AV fireball juggling.

Good man. I sure wish more people recognized that Doom changes are ancillary nerfs to what people consider "Morrigan" right now in Marvel.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Good man. I sure wish more people recognized that Doom changes are ancillary nerfs to what people consider "Morrigan" right now in Marvel.
I don't know if you follow DOTA 2 but there is basically the EXACT same meta game in that game like there is in Marvel concerning MorriDoom.

There's a combination of two heroes that is super lame/cheap/turtling of Ezalor and Phantom Lancer. Ezalor is the support and PL is the carry. Ezalor enables PL's game by playing extremely turtlish and safe while harassing enemies from a far. This allows PL to win the war of attrition and farm up big items for the late game.

Everyone concentrates on PL as the root of the problem but it's really Ezalor who does the work. If they nerf Ezalor, PL would be balanced because he's only a late game hero and he needs a support who can extend the game long enough for him (play lame for him like Eza). If you nerf PL, some other carry is going to take his place who benefits from Ezalor like Luna, DK etc.

Just like with Marvel 3, if you nerf Morrigan some other character is going to start abusing Missiles anyway (they do now anyway).


X factor LVL3 only. Should work with Wolverine (BC speed) and maybe Jill too.
 

Dahbomb

Member
LOL, not as much LOLs as your statement that HM is the top assist and ignore jam session.
Yes it's the best assist in the game and no Jam Session does not need a nerf. A lot of the reasons why Jam Session is so good in the current game is that a lot of the top tiers get full combos that lead into TOD despite the scaling. With scaling values adjusted, those Zeroes and Vipers won't be getting TODs from it. It would only be super good for Frank West LVL4 but you are using Frank West...

I still think it's a top 5 assist that is very versatile but that guy thinks Jam Session is not even a top 10 assist and is situation at best benefiting only 2-3 characters. He also thinks Dante is barely top 15 and is Mid tier/sucks compared to top tier etc.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Zero goes hi!

SMH.
What the hell does this even mean? If you read my entire changelist you would see that Zero got nerfs on his scaling and Lightning meaning no more Jam Session confirm into TOD. Plus no more Lightning cross ups in the corner either that are made stupider by Jam Session. No more Unblockables into TOD by Viper either (unless grounded).

The only assist in this game that needs a nerf is Missiles and a DISTANT second is Vajra.
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
I don't know if you follow DOTA 2 but there is basically the EXACT same meta game in that game like there is in Marvel concerning MorriDoom.

There's a combination of two heroes that is super lame/cheap/turtling of Ezalor and Phantom Lancer. Ezalor is the support and PL is the carry. Ezalor enables PL's game by playing extremely turtlish and safe while harassing enemies from a far. This allows PL to win the war of attrition and farm up big items for the late game.

Everyone concentrates on PL as the root of the problem but it's really Ezalor who does the work. If they nerf Ezalor, PL would be balanced because he's only a late game hero and he needs a support who can extend the game long enough for him (play lame for him like Eza). If you nerf PL, some other carry is going to take his place who benefits from Ezalor like Luna, DK etc.

Just like with Marvel 3, if you nerf Morrigan some other character is going to start abusing Missiles anyway (they do now anyway).

Yep, pretty much. I don't follow DOTA2, but it seems like a pretty similar situation. Misperception of weight in a symbiotic relationship.


LOL, not as much LOLs as your statement that HM is the top assist and ignore jam session.

Jam Session is not as strong, easymode, or mulitfunctional as HM.
 

onionfrog

Member
Wolverine has a shit ton of brain dead front loaded damage which is his primary problem. His st.H also has proportionally WAY too much damage compared to his other moves and it's already a move with an excellent hit box. Wolverine players will have to work a bit harder for damage out of the gate.

St.L has a pretty busted hit box. That thing anti-airs just about everything that can be anti-air'd. It should still be a great anti-air tool but just toned down slightly.

Swiss Cheese is surprisingly safe on block and sometimes rewards you for mashing. If it was meant to punish mashing Wolverines then it should do a better job of it!
I don't really think wolverine needs any nerfs. I mean, he's good, but he's not so busted that he's fucking up the balance of the game like he did in Vanilla.

I also don't think Doom needs many nerfs outside of Hidden Missiles either.

Jam Session doesn't win games like Hidden Missiles do.
I agree with Beef. Jam Session is a great assist, but its not as fundamentally stupid and combo breaker-y as Hidden Missiles.
 

Zissou

Member
I don't really think wolverine needs any nerfs. I mean, he's good, but he's not so busted that he's fucking up the balance of the game like he did in Vanilla.

I also don't think Doom needs many nerfs outside of Hidden Missiles either.


I agree with Beef. Jam Session is a great assist, but its not as fundamentally stupid and combo breaker-y as Hidden Missiles.

Preach it
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
Actually, why would they announce Marvel Update at Pax East instead of SDCC? SSDC OR BUST!

Edited: July 18th to July 21th.

Honestly, with the way that Capcom's been reviving old licenses and PAYing those licensing fees all across the board (D&D, Duck Tales, Strider), I wouldn't be completely surprised if they did something again with Marvel... it feels like they're trying to gain back some favor from the recent taint of anti-consumer anti-fan practices.

That said, I won't hold my breath.
 

Frantic

Member
Since I already posted my Dante, Trish and Strider changes a while back, I'll just not post them and go for some other characters.

General
I'd like to remove TACs, but since I know that won't happen I'll mainly abstaine from general changes since atm I can't think of a system that wouldn't completely gimp TACs, but also wouldn't keep me hating them. Though I will borrow Dahbomb's throw tech change, and remove the stacking damage/speed scaling of X-Factor.

Vergil
  • +[?] Judgment Cut now chainable up to three times into itself or one of its other variants with an additional respective button press.
  • + Devil Trigger Judgment Cut now hits OTG
  • + Can manually fire each projectile of Sword Storm(the crown) with ATK+S
  • - Round Trip glitch removed
  • - Round Trip damage changed from 20k per hit to 15k per hit(same as Trish's).
  • - Lunar Phase damage adjusted from 25k x 8 + 50k to 15k x 8 + 50k.
  • - Helm Breaker recovery changed from 18 frames to 22 frames. Cannot be canceled with a launch, but can still be special canceled.
  • - Hitboxes adjusted to match the animations more, and no longer extend past them.
  • - cr.L startup changed to six frames.
  • - Spiral Sword durability changed from each sword having 3 frames x 5 high durability to 1 high durability each. Damage reduced from 15,000 to 10,000.
  • - Dimension Slash no longer teleports Vergil beyond the opposing character, removing its ability to cross up.
  • - Invincibility on Devil Trigger startup removed(since I didn't have this for Dante in the last list, it goes for him, too)

While there are a lot of -s, I don't think I nerfed Vergil too severely. Durability change on Spiral Swords means just about every projectile hyper goes through it now, the damage reduction on Round Trip and Spiral Swords also means his chip damage isn't as absurd. I chose to reduce individual moves damage, since chip is always 30%, meaning his chip damage would still be way too high if I just lowered his specials damage scaling. Lunar Phase damage reduction means he can no longer do 50k for each, doing about 30k now, and with the nerfed Spiral Swords damage means his loops - while doing damage still - is no longer as high damage/meter build as before.

Tentative about the 3 Judgment Cut change. It's accurate to the games, but that's a lot of real estate on the ground at one time...

Dr. Strange
  • + Increase start up acceleration of forward and back dashes. Each travel 20% further.
  • + cr.L now hits low
  • + s.L rapid fire capable
  • + Given a three-way airdash. Directions are forward, back and straight down.
  • + Mystic Sword L lower hitbox increased, destroys low and medium durability projectiles during active frames.
  • + Eye of Agamatto now 10 frames x 3 low durability points
  • + Daggers of Denak M fires the discs one after the other instead of at the same time.

Not a whole lot of huge changes for Strange, but these are mainly just my personal gripes with him when I play him.

Arthur
  • Gold Armor break occurs upon getting hit, and now causes a soft-knockdown.
  • + All ground normals are two frames faster(they're stubby, they should have some benefit)
  • + Shield Deflect now counters high, mid and low attacks. Startup changed to 3 frames(from 5).
  • + Cross Sword special cancelable. Projectile remains if Arthur gets hit. Now usable in the air.
  • + Lance Charge startup reduced to 18 frames. Gold Armor reduces it further to 14 frames and destroys low and medium durability projectiles.
  • + Increased hitstun on j.S by three frames.
  • Assist – Heavenly Slash replaced with Scatter Crossbow

I'm not super sure on Arthur. Getting hit once and having the Gold Armor break seems a bit much, since he's primarily a projectile based character so if he gets tagged by something fast like Disruptor, he immediately becomes gimped. Maybe set it to range from 5-10 hits or something?

Deadpool
  • + Increase hitstun and blockstun on j.L by four frames.
  • + Ninja Gift M hits OTG
  • + Cuttin' Time now scales to a minimum of 50%, up from 40%
  • + Chimichangas window of cancel for Quick Work L changed to frame 20-25
  • + Chimichangas window of cancel for Quick Work M changed to frame 45-50
  • + Chimichangas window of cancel for Quick Work H changed to frame 55-60
  • + Katana-Rama L and M cause soft-knockdown
  • + Fourth Wall Crisis is now 5+0 on startup and can now counter projectiles.
  • Assist - Trigger-Happy H assist changed to an eight shot Trigger-Happy M

Relatively minor changes here.

Wesker
  • + Rhino Charge returned to vanilla status
  • + Normal counters are now unblockable.
  • +/- Removed glasses buff by using Phantom Dance. Will only buff Wesker if glasses are broken through damage or chip damage.
  • - Phantom Dance follows a set pattern that always tracks a character, keeping them in constant blockstun to avoid the random cross ups.

Again, mostly minor changes.

Dr. Doom
  • - Universal damage and meter reduction for all normals. (Nothing too severe, generally ranging from 5-10k)
  • - Hidden Missiles as an assist has an additional 10 frames of startup
  • - If Doom is hit during Hidden Missiles, any missiles that have not already begun descending onto a target automatically self-destruct
  • - Plasma Beam(assist) comes out at the point's location(that's a good change, Dahbomb. Wouldn't have thought of it)

I think these changes are reasonable. Not too much of an overnerf, but not too light. I think Doom is mostly fine, it's just his high damage/meter gain for little effort is too high. Additionally, Hidden Missiles is too good, but I don't want it to be useless. It just needs slightly more risk for the reward, which I thnk my changes give it without making it worthless... maybe remove the additional startup, or lower the number some. Thoughts?

Zero

  • + Less hitstop for animations, speeding up his combos.
  • - Damage scaling lowered from 20% normals and 30% specials to 15% normals and 15% specials.
  • - Buster canceling Raikousen will immediately remove the lightning from the screen.

Less hitstop is a much needed buff, imo. :p I'm not too keen on nerfing characters, so these are just needed changes. Reasoning for 15/15 instead of 10/20 is that Zero's normals scale very quickly, and going down to 10% is a bit too much imo. Additionally, his damage comes from specials mainly, so 20% is too high. Since I'm not getting rid of the loop(it's not an easy loop to do, so there should be a reward to do it, but the damage that Zero can get right now is too high), 15% would half the loop's damage(anywhere from 400-500 down to 200-250).

Magneto
  • - Fix guard-cancel glitch with Gravitation moves(not that it sees any use, but I don't think it's intentional)
  • - Increase startup of Disruptor assist by 5 frames.
  • - Magnetic Blast L now has 3 low durability points, down from 5. Magnetic Blast M has 4 low durability points, down from 5. Magnetic Blast H remains the same.

Not too much to see here. Not wholly sure on the Magnetic Blast change, but there's literally no reason to use the M or H version over the L version(which is the fastest startup). There needs to be some sort of incentive.

Morrigan
  • + Air Soul Drain hits OTG
  • - Astral Vision clone's attack do not build meter, unless it's a Soul Drain.
  • Assist – Soul Fist changed to Soul Drain
  • Assist – All assists now use Shadow Servant for THC

Nothing too drastic here, I think. Astral Vision still builds meter, but doesn't double it with the clone(it does double, right?).

Hsien-Ko
  • + Her cr.H now hits OTG.
  • + Her s.S has extended horizontal range.
  • + j.S now causes her to descend faster, much like Arthur's j.S(though not as fast)
  • + Henkyo Ki L disappears after 60 frames, Henkyo Ki M disappears after 120 frames, and Henkyo Ki H disappears after 240 frames.
  • + Air Throw and Command Throw untechable knockdown time increased by 30 frames.
  • + cr.M now hits low.
  • + Universal 5 frame startup decrease for Senpu Bu.
  • + Can immediately cancel all versions of Senpu Bu with S. Cancel takes 3 frames.
  • + Anki-Hou now have 5 low durability points. New QCF + S move now always throws bombs that explode on contact with an enemy.
  • + Airdash movement speed increased by 25%. Range increased by 50%.
  • + Walkspeed increased by 10%.

Somehow, it still feels like Hsien-Ko needs more. I can't tell if it's because she's so bad, or just that I have trouble imagining her with even these changes. lol.


Didn't really follow the criteria set(5 buff/5 nerf), but whatever. I had fun making them, and that's that. :p
 

Dahbomb

Member
Frantic: Would like to see a link to the Dante/Trish/Strider changes as well.

Will read and give comments but from a cursory glance everything looks acceptable.

Vergil:

Forgot about removing invulnerability start up on DT, that has to go of course. I am fine with nerfing cr.L too, it's too fast for a character like Vergil.
The Judgment Cut buff might be too over the top. Like it would make Dormammu players furious.


Strange:

Agree with the buffs and I would add that they need to rework his counter. It's pretty bad in it's current state. They also need to adjust the hit stun on FotF at max combo because after all these nerfs to top tiers he would be the next in line in terms of being able to TOD off pretty much any confirm no matter the scaling values in place. Right now he's a gimmick status character in that his neutral isn't good enough to hold off a lot of pressure but his TOD ability rivals that of the top 5 in the game. They need to make him a more solid character sort of like what they did with Spider Man.


Zero:

Less hit stop is a great change. Worse than being TOD by Zero is having to sit through his long ass combos which isn't going to change even if you nerf his damage. I might actually pick him back up again.


Arthur:

Everything sounds in order.


Magneto:

I was thinking about his Mag Blasts and how to change them a bit. That looks like a good change IMO.


Dr Doom:

I think you have the same idea as me on Doom but you are fixing him in another way. You are changing the damage on his normals straight up while I am changing the properties on his moves so that he doesn't get long relaunch combos. I think if you are OK with the length of Doom's combo but don't like his damage/meter gain then you just adjust his scaling on his normal attacks. I am pretty sure if Capcom plans to change Doom that way they will just tweak his scaling and call it a day.


Wesker:

Same as mine, nothing to comment here.


Hsien Ko:

Any buff is good.


Morrigan:

I think lowering the time in AV should be acceptable along with how the juggling fireballs work. I think they should just allow her to OTG with a fireball so that she can combo off air throws. Give more reason for players to go in with Morrigan and use more of her tools than sitting back at full screen and chucking fireballs.
 

onionfrog

Member
Since I already posted my Dante, Trish and Strider changes a while back, I'll just not post them and go for some other characters.
...
Hsien-Ko
  • + Her cr.H now hits OTG.
  • + Her s.S has extended horizontal range.
  • + j.S now causes her to descend faster, much like Arthur's j.S(though not as fast)
  • + Henkyo Ki L disappears after 60 frames, Henkyo Ki M disappears after 120 frames, and Henkyo Ki H disappears after 240 frames.
  • + Air Throw and Command Throw untechable knockdown time increased by 30 frames.
  • + cr.M now hits low.
  • + Universal 5 frame startup decrease for Senpu Bu.
  • + Can immediately cancel all versions of Senpu Bu with S. Cancel takes 3 frames.
  • + Anki-Hou now have 5 low durability points. New QCF + S move now always throws bombs that explode on contact with an enemy.
  • + Airdash movement speed increased by 25%. Range increased by 50%.
  • + Walkspeed increased by 10%.

Somehow, it still feels like Hsien-Ko needs more. I can't tell if it's because she's so bad, or just that I have trouble imagining her with even these changes. lol.
These changes look good, can't find much to disagree with. I think your Hsienko changes would make her quite a bit better.
Morrigan
  • + Air Soul Drain hits OTG
  • - Astral Vision clone's attack do not build meter, unless it's a Soul Drain.
  • Assist – Soul Fist changed to Soul Drain
  • Assist – All assists now use Shadow Servant for THC

Nothing too drastic here, I think. Astral Vision still builds meter, but doesn't double it with the clone(it does double, right?).
-I'm not too sure about Air Soul Drain hitting OTG, I'm don't know if that would give her too much potential to steal meter in combos without Astral Vision.
-Astral vision nerf seems good, maybe too good? Karst would be a better judge of this one.
-If you give her a Soul Drain assist, that leaves her with two meter building assists, and I'm not sure if that makes sense.
-All assists using Shadow Servant for THC!!! EXCELLENT!
 
I'm not super sure on Arthur. Getting hit once and having the Gold Armor break seems a bit much, since he's primarily a projectile based character so if he gets tagged by something fast like Disruptor, he immediately becomes gimped. Maybe set it to range from 5-10 hits or something?

How about making it work like Maya Shield when it comes to durability?

Hmm, I'm trying to come up with changes for Rocket Raccoon but can't really think of much. Anyone has better ideas than me? :T

Off the top of my head
+Reduce startup for Net Trap
+Reduce scaling after Net Trap
+Increase durability on Spitfire

...yeah I'm not good at coming up with balance changes.
 

Frantic

Member
Would like to see a link to the Dante/Trish/Strider changes as well.

Will read and give comments but from a cursory glance everything looks acceptable.

Edit: Forgot about removing invulnerability start up on DT, that has to go of course.
Looking back on it, there are a couple things I'd change from it, so here ya go with the changes.

Dante
  • + Damage scaling changed from 5% for normals and specials to 5% for normals and 10% for specials.
  • + Pushback on aerial normals returned to vanilla status
  • + Hitstun on j.L returned to vanilla status
  • + Pushback on cr.M returned to vanilla status. Increase active frames by 1 additional frame.
  • + Multi-Lock allows for blocking and normal attacks. Projectiles fire one at a time instead of all at once.
  • + Recovery on Crazy Dance(hit) decreased
  • - Sky Dance no longer resets the ground bounce on the final hit. Every other hit still causes a ground-bounce + hard knockdown.
  • - No longer able to block during the prejump frames of Bold Move
  • - Grapple no longer forces a neutral tech
  • - Invincibility on Devil Trigger startup removed

Strider
  • + Damage scaling changed from 3% for normals and 7% for specials to 10% for normals and specials.
  • + Formation B does not have a time limit.
  • + Legion has 1 high durability per animal. Also has one formation, and isn't randomized.
  • + Hyper damage scaling now at 50%, up from 30%.
  • + Lower hitbox on Formation B(Shot) increased to ensure it hits on small characters
  • - Vajra assist now soft-knockdowns. Retains hard-knockdown if the combo counter is at least 2 hits.
  • Assist – Ame-no-Murakumo changed to Formation C

Trish
  • + Hopscotch hits OTG
  • + Opponent's untechable time after ground throws increased by 20 frames.
  • + Peekaboo has 80 frames of set hitstun. Decreases by 10 frames per every use in a combo.
  • + Duet Pain damage increased to 440,000, up from 400,000.
  • + Low Voltage L startup/recovery now 10/25, down from 15/35
  • + Low Voltage M startup/recovery now 15/27, down from 20/37
  • + Low Voltage H startup/recovery now 20/30, down from 25/40

onionfrog said:
-If you give her a Soul Drain assist, that leaves her with two meter building assists, and I'm not sure if that makes sense.
Maybe, but one would build meter, and the other would steal meter. I 'unno, I just like the idea of stealing meter with an assist. :p
 

Zissou

Member
If they ever update marvel, Doom will be nerfed into the ground. I should start cultivating other characters (I don't know why I play point Doom in the first place). At least I have Dante/Strider- I think they would largely fly under the radar- Dante definitely wouldn't be touched. I should just go all in and learn Viper, they'll never nerf her either.
 
It doesn't. Morrigan's Soul Fist durability is 5. Chris's Magnum is 10.

Her Soul Fist has the same durability as a Hadoken. It's fine.

Weird I was watching a Spooky stream and I saw it trade with Magnum. Either it was a Astral vision Soul Fist that trades, or maybe it was two and I didn't notice.
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
Weird I was watching a Spooky stream and I saw it trade with Magnum. Either it was a Astral vision Soul Fist that trades, or maybe it was two and I didn't notice.

Hmm, I'm second guessing myself now, but I'm pretty sure. If Morrigan has two Soul Fists on screen at the same time (and at the same level), the Magnum will get eaten up by them, though.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Dante:

I don't know about buffing his damage values up. I think his damage and meter gain is just right in the game. I can live with normals buffing back up again. The nerfs are acceptable though.


Strider:

Again, I also think his damage is fine it's his hyper damage that needs changing. I don't know about that Vajra change either, I mean this is clearly a change that only Dante players can make use of (Jam Session into Vajra hit for hard knockdown). Sort of kills the assist for others like Viper and Wesker. The assist IS a bit too good, I think a better change would be to make it track a bit worse as an assist.


Trish:

Yea being able to combo after an air throw should be an option for most characters or at least have an OTG move after it so they can use an assist. This will boost her game up dramatically. Rest of the changes are acceptable.
 

Frantic

Member
The Judgment Cut buff might be too over the top. Like it would make Dormammu players furious.
Haha, I was thinking that as well. It was a random thought I had, but yeah, probably not a good idea. I can imagine the salt when DT Vergil throws out three huge ass Judgment Cuts along the ground.


Agree with the buffs and I would add that they need to rework his counter. It's pretty bad in it's current state. They also need to adjust the hit stun on FotF at max combo because after all these nerfs to top tiers he would be the next in line in terms of being able to TOD off pretty much any confirm no matter the scaling values in place. Right now he's a gimmick status character in that his neutral isn't good enough to hold off a lot of pressure but his TOD ability rivals that of the top 5 in the game. They need to make him a more solid character sort of like what they did with Spider Man.
Forgot all about his counter. Yeah, it needs to be fixed. I did have an idea a while ago about making it similar to Trish's Peekaboo where if a normal hits it, that normal counts as a 'whiff' so they can't auto-correct into a combo and allowing Strange to punish them.

I can agree to the ToD stuff.


I think you have the same idea as me on Doom but you are fixing him in another way. You are changing the damage on his normals straight up while I am changing the properties on his moves so that he doesn't get long relaunch combos. I think if you are OK with the length of Doom's combo but don't like his damage/meter gain then you just adjust his scaling on his normal attacks. I am pretty sure if Capcom plans to change Doom that way they will just tweak his scaling and call it a day.
Either way is fine, I think. Ultimately, I'd rather Capcom make Doom players required to do stuff like Maziodyne's loops to do damage instead of easy mode foot-footdive combos.

I think lowering the time in AV should be acceptable along with how the juggling fireballs work. I think they should just allow her to OTG with a fireball so that she can combo off air throws. Give more reason for players to go in with Morrigan and use more of her tools than sitting back at full screen and chucking fireballs.
Agreed on both accounts. It is rather ridiculous that fullscreen fireball juggles do more damage than her normal combos.

I don't know about buffing his damage values up. I think his damage and meter gain is just right in the game. I can live with normals buffing back up again. The nerfs are acceptable though.
Probably so. I could live with 5/5 damage scaling, but I would like them to restore Volcano and Beehive's damage to vanilla level's. Nerfing it and his damage scaling was just a double whammy, although that might increase his meter gain back to more absurd levels again... it'd probably just be best if he was left alone as far as damage goes.

Again, I also think his damage is fine it's his hyper damage that needs changing. I don't know about that Vajra change either, I mean this is clearly a change that only Dante players can make use of (Jam Session into Vajra hit for hard knockdown). Sort of kills the assist for others like Viper and Wesker. The assist IS a bit too good, I think a better change would be to make it track a bit worse as an assist.
On the damage account, certain confirms(super jump confirms with Excalibur) just scale his combos to max really fast, which is why 10/10 would be preferred. I'd be fine with it not being changed(or at least changed to 5/10. 3/7 is just so weird).

Vajra is a hard assist to balance, I'll just say that much. :p

swiss cheese punishes you by making you look ridiculous
Which was the ultimate nerf to Wolverine, imo. That and his DLC outfit. Swiss Cheese + his DLC outfit is just ridiculous to look at.
 

FSLink

Banned
I also posted awhile back that you can DHC into Strange's counter super after Order in the Court to do the FoF loop. :) Wright and Strange have some really nice synergy.
 

Marz

Member
Out of all the broken cheap stuff that's in this game I have no idea why anyone would nerf Mags air dash. He doesn't have the fastest in the game either Storm does. Magneto has low health, moderate damage, good but not broken normals....his mobility is his main selling point. Yea he opens people up a lot but he struggles against a lot of characters and gets mauled by the likes of Wolverine.

The only thing that I think could use a nerf is the minute you get to convert off an throw with him.
 

Dahbomb

Member
If the only weakness of your character is that he gets mauled by Wolverine (which every character does at his jab range) then you really need to realize that your character is lacking in anything really.

Storm has faster mobility yes but she doesn't have the j.L tridash pressure, the same damage/meter gain, the BEST thow game, excellent specials for zoning, a good assist and solid normals. There's a good two tier gap between the two characters.
 
Out of all the broken cheap stuff that's in this game I have no idea why anyone would nerf Mags air dash. He doesn't have the fastest in the game either Storm does. Magneto has low health, moderate damage, good but not broken normals....his mobility is his main selling point. Yea he opens people up a lot but he struggles against a lot of characters and gets mauled by the likes of Wolverine.

The only thing that I think could use a nerf is the minute you get to convert off an throw with him.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be able to do all of his mixups or combo's or anything but. Why do people say Magneto doesn't have high damage. A good Magneto combo builds almost 2 bars. A simple DHC or gravity squeeze does plenty. Regarding the air dash, it's to fast. No character should be able to move from 3/4 screen to up close in an instant with the stupid mixups Magneto has. I'd rather the air speed nerfed than his mixup game. I think it's a tad too good right now in combination with Magneto mixups and combos with large meter build.
 
If the only weakness of your character is that he gets mauled by Wolverine (which every character does at his jab range) then you really need to realize that your character is lacking in anything really.

Storm has faster mobility yes but she doesn't have the j.L tridash pressure, the same damage/meter gain, the BEST thow game, excellent specials for zoning, a good assist and solid normals. There's a good two tier gap between the two characters.

Reading this actually made me think you were talking about Nova for a second.
 

Marz

Member
If the only weakness of your character is that he gets mauled by Wolverine (which every character does at his jab range) then you really need to realize that your character is lacking in anything really.

Storm has faster mobility yes but she doesn't have the j.L tridash pressure, the same damage/meter gain, the BEST thow game, excellent specials for zoning, a good assist and solid normals. There's a good two tier gap between the two characters.

Why are you going off about Storm I didn't say anything about Storm being close to Magneto just responding to Slasher saying he has the best air dash. Nova also has the better throw game IMO with that H option select.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Well you weren't quoting anyone so I thought it was just a general statement.

Both Mag and Nova are tied for best throw game and Magneto's j.H throw OS is also insanely good. Nova just isn't as quick as Magneto. Mag excels at a shit ton of categories.
 

Marz

Member
Excels but doesn't have anything really overpowering in the current meta game. He's good at everything but he doesn't have that instant win spiral swords or that brain dead Spencer, Nova, Doom damage. You don't see really anyone winning with Mags at majors anymore, there's a reason for that
 

Dartastic

Member
Anyone wanna play some matches on 360? I'm a little drunk (whoops) and I've got an ass day 1 team with no combos BUT LET'S GOOOOOOO!
KuGsj.gif
 
swiss cheese punishes you by making you look ridiculous
This made me laugh really hard, cause every time I do it I feel stupid as fuck. This game and SFIV have made me into a masher. Before these two games I never mashed....but both games reward you for stupid shit, so I had to learn to get on board with it.

If they ever update marvel, Doom will be nerfed into the ground. I should start cultivating other characters (I don't know why I play point Doom in the first place). At least I have Dante/Strider- I think they would largely fly under the radar- Dante definitely wouldn't be touched. I should just go all in and learn Viper, they'll never nerf her either.


Yeah I feel the same way. I hate knowing that if they update the game they will likely nerf characters I really enjoy playing. I fucking hate nerfs and find them mostly unnecessary unless a character is obviously leagues above the rest of the cast and has no real weakness (SFIV Sagat). As much as I hate Vergil, I wouldn't nerf him....much. Do something about helm breaker and I'd be happy with that. I'd much rather see the rest of the cast get buffed and then no one can complain about their characters. I'm only gonna list a few though

Chris (Yes I play him, so of course I'm slightly biased)

- Extend hitbox of flamethrower so that it can hit crouching Frank West (seriously I don't give a shit about any other character, but others would be fine too). OR allow Chris to call assists during flamethrower. I'd prefer the former but would happily take the latter as that could lead to some serious damage with certain assists.

- Gun fire can shoot straight in air with atk+S. Magnum will not cause wall bounce or hard knockdown as that would be too good. But I'd take it if people think it's ok.

- Reduced recovery on stun rod for safe blockstring. Or stun rod has increased startup but is overhead

- Grenade toss L has less recovery so comboing off of it is easier and less character specific.

- Grenade toss M does more damage plus hard knockdown. I honestly use this move for nothing other than very very specific combos and I'd like to use it more.

- Combination Punch L>M>H should be easier. Yes I can do it 9/10 times just because I've practiced it so much but I usually don't risk it outside of being fancy because the H is easy to fuck up on.

- Combination Punch M>H should be easier and magnum shot should never miss

- Sweep combo is invincible until Chris puts stun rod away.

Dormammu

- Dark dimension is a level 1 instead of 3 but damage is reduced to 180k. Fuck you Spencer

- I'd like for one or two blue spells to have some utility. I'm no Dorm expert so I dunno....maybe it already does.

Bah I'll finish this later....I'm too tired to think straight.
 
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