SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
I kind of hope the down clock is true. Microsoft needs a good ass kicking right now to bring out their A game...
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XBOX ONE Reveal: UI faked from the start. Very choppy, and CBoaT
- Thread starter Takuya
- Start date
Incitemaybe
Member
People are....drawing conclusions from that video?
Really?
Really?
the embedded RAM is a different section of the die than the GPU
if the GPU is causing yield quality issues then downclocking it might let them use the lower-quality chips being produced
if the eSRAM is causing issues downclocking the GPU will do nothing to fix them
is that clear enough?
I've had things wrong before too. I was led to believe there would be "special sauce"- when in reality all that was an audio processor, ES RAM, and move engines. I also was told sizes of the PS4 box that were totally false as well. Like I said, I'm not stating this as fact, but I've heard this issue from a source who is in the know, and I'm HAPPY to be wrong. I don't put myself out there for no reason.
how would sub-1080 not be completely unacceptable at this point?
Marty Chinn
Member
I've been over this a few times. The use case can work and probably will work. There is nothing to stop them from adding "Record Current Show" as a voice command and it send the record IR command to your cable/satellite box. Any IR command that your cable or satellite box can receive should be easily programmed as a mapped voice command. People are overlooking that the DVR can and will still function while you're using it through the Xbox One.
but... the cloud!
BadAss2961
Member
The guide on my cable box looks way better and faster than what Microsoft has shown.
Get used to it. Across all future platforms
thuway said:
Before you guys jump on thuway, keep this in mind: being a "third hand" source (or even a second-hand source) aka a "leak" is prone to being lead astray sometimes, or sometimes getting unclear or misunderstood information. What he says is not told to play with gaffers' minds (as some other posters attempt to) but to share as much as he can, right or wrong (and often right).
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Yea, it's definitely the more complex design of the two. I think they much rather come in understocked at launch, though, if it came to that, rather than mess with the GPU clocks.
Just one conclusion. "So obviously this is an early build."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifa9Q7ATfVA#t=1m54s
Wasn't saying that we should be happy about that solution, just that it won't be hard for devs to deal with the spec difference.
yes, generally transistor leakage would be the problem here, resulting in higher voltages being needed to reach the clockspeed goal which means higher TDP
i also really doubt that the GPU alone could cause problems like this, it would probably affect the whole chip. yield issues tend to be defective transistors which would require fusing parts of the chip off and providing less CPU/GPU compute or usable eSRAM space
phosphor112
Banned
1) I'm sure it's not as fast
2) It's not on an APU (CPU and GPU on one chip)
3) The GPU isn't as powerful as the one in the Xbone.
That would work. Anything more complicated than that would likely require MS to do customization for specific DVRs. (or you could just use your remote like you always have)
I'll just continue to not buy games instead...sure it will cripple the industry and all
Unless, like someone mentioned before, it has to do with heat from the GPU dissipating across the die and affecting the ESRAM performance. That's about the only thing I can see that it could be. Memory structures are repetitive and fairly easy to layout on a die once you have the cells designed for the process being used. It's just a matter of placing them to account for the speeds of the interface needed and their tolerance to heat. I don't really know anything about AMD's process or ESRAM in particular (or what they look like laid out in transistor form for a chip design) so my ability to speculate is fairly limited - that and I haven't done any VLSI work in like FOREVER!!
James Sawyer Ford
Member
And if they come in understocked and it causes them to have massive shortages while PS4 is in ample supply?
I see them downclocking rather than taking that risk...Sony has too many advantages at this point.
Perhaps, that would seem to be the better choice, unless they are really scared of another RROD type situation.
RROD situation was because of solder, not gpu yield
yes basically i am saying that none of this is really making any sense
also i'm pretty sure it's TSMC's 28nm process, not AMD/Globalfoundry's
Right. I was referring to problems caused by heat down the road, not yield. I kind of mixed conversation paths a bit.
Uh-Oh. That rumor is quite shocking.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
If it's a RAM yield issue down clocking the GPU doesn't really make sense.
th4tguy
Member
I absolutely think its possible. I just don't think it's likely. I do question how smooth it will be. i get noticeable lag bringing up the guide on my tv just using my cable box. that will still hold back the One no matter how fast it is.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
It's an eSRAM issue, which could be caused by too much heat dissipating from the GPU.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Whatever the Wii-U has, I think it's either EDRAM or 1T-SRAM, which is not true SRAM, but an EDRAM variant. The Xbox One apparently has 6T-SRAM, which I believe takes up significantly more space on die compared to EDRAM, but I think offers the advantage of being less of a hassle to cost reduce over time, or something to that effect.
Angelus Errare
Banned
1. Wii U is using eDRAM
2. Wii U chips are on an MCM
3. Wii U's GPU is clocked at 550Mhz and is a lower class than Xbox One's
4. These are unfounded rumors at the moment.
captscience
Member
So it would make sense if the rumor were partially incorrect and it is in fact a certain number of CU's being made inactive, resulting in the .8-.9 tflops, rather than a down clock?
3rdamention
Member
Have devs ever got on stage and "played" a target render? Acted like and led the audience to think they were playing the real thing?
Halo 2
vpance
Member
No A game would help with 8-900 gflops.
Codeblew
Member
He doesn't know what he is talking about. There is no such thing as "topping out".
fuzzy.dunlop
Banned
I really just want this industry to go back to Nintendo, Sony and PC. Yes, yes, ios and all that.
Wasn't it more due to the poor design of the X clamp which caused the board to arch enough for the solder joints to break?
Well, it was a combination of the two
If they were using the lead based solder used on Xbox, there would have been zero issues.
The reason they used X clamp was because when the system is upright, it puts less strain on the motherboard as opposed to using 4 bolts like on PC
But because of the lead-free solder weakening under temperature stress, it caused fractures in the solder leading to eventual failure - X-clamp was kind of focusing the stress inside the mounting joints as opposed to stressing the outside of the joints
Nope, I don't speak nearly as often on here about what I know for certain on the new Xbox. In fact, I try not to be the subject of any leaks, because I'd more or less be betraying someone's trust, but in the case of this most recent thing about a downclock of the GPU, I literally begged permission to say definitively that it's absolutely not true.
The only thing that's true is that they are having a bit of a headache with the ESRAM. THAT is certainly true, but (all speculation after this) I think that's more down to the manufacturing difficulty of the ESRAM and yields, not actually using a finished and working version of the GPU for software related purposes.
LOL. Nice dig
You came to the rescue quick eh there insider?
SneakyStephan
Banned
Ah, I confused him with someone else then, there were so many 15 minute of fame rumor spreaders a while ago.
That was actually real-time. It just wasn't running on a Xbox
Yup. Also is not only the 360. The ps3, and several models from different makers of laptops have the same issue. Particularly the more affected for this are the Compaq/HP V1XXX,V2XXX and V3XXX series for the former and the DVXXXX series for the later
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
That doesn't really make any sense.
NoLootBoxDev
Member
As far this "insider" is not like the Blizzard one. I believe on Proelite and thuway, this E3 and lunch will be amazing.
drivingpro
Member
This thread is a classic case of gaf being gaf.
travisbickle
Member
Aren't yields improved with more time?
MS have made their case that the One is very different to the PS4, why don't they delay the release to improve yields and launch at a later time with the "all in one entertainment box".