• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Head start: the Xbox 360 and the next generation

Zonar

Member
http://arstechnica.com/articles/headstart.ars/1

By Ben Kuchera

Tuesday, January 02, 2007
Playing defense

It would make sense for Microsoft to be on the defensive. The Xbox 360 is about a year old, so the company isn't going into the holiday season with the buzz that Sony and Nintendo are enjoying. But having that long of a head start also carries with it some advantages: hardware will be plentiful on store shelves, and Microsoft had all that time to hone the online and UI experiences with the 360. At this stage, the console is a mature product just hitting its stride, a nice position to be in given what both the Wii and the PS3 are going through.

Microsoft is confident enough in their position that they invited me to New York to see how the Xbox 360 stacks up against the PS3 when both are hooked into the same 1080p display and using the highest-quality connection possible. For the 360 that means the VGA cable, which is currently the only way the system can output 1080p; the PS3 is hooked up via HDMI. When I walk into the room, I'm amused at their choice of display: a Sony Bravia XBR2 1080p LCD. It's a gorgeous display, and I remark on it.

I'm there with Aaron Greenberg, the Group Marketing Manager for Xbox Live, and Scott Henson, product unit manager for Microsoft's game technology group. They're open and surprisingly unguarded. In addition to the nice display are a 360 with an HD DVD drive and the 60GB PS3. Both are also online, and there are a stack of games between them. "We're selling Bravias on the side," they joke, and I'm invited to take a look around the setup, with the air of a magician telling me there's nothing up his sleeve. They want to be sure I'm happy with how each system is hooked up and that I don't think one system has the advantage in cabling or anything else. "We want to compare apples to apples," they tell me.

It's an odd situation. I know that the point of this meeting is for them to convince me of the 360's supremacy, but they leave the meeting up to me to control in terms of what we put in or how we play the games and movies, and I see them listening to me as much as I listen to them. Evan Parker, the PR person in the room, also makes notes on what's said more than once. I feel like I'm being interviewed and watched almost as much as I'm interviewing and watching them.

Aaron Greenberg and Scott Henson of Microsoft

Henson motions to the stacks of games and movies. "Where would you like to start?" he asks me.

I grin. This is going to be fun.
The hard drive problem

First, we talk about the hard drives on the respective systems and I tell Greenberg and Henson that they're messing up—a 20GB hard drive is simply too small, especially with the video marketplace on Xbox Live. With demos sometimes coming in at over 1GB and rental movies that are over 5GB, you simply don't have a lot of space available. The PS3's 60GB hard drive is much roomier, and both the 20GB and 60GB Sony drives aren’t proprietary; you can slide them out and put in your own drive if you feel like upgrading. In contrast, the 360 hard drive maxes out at 20GB and costs $100, a ridiculous price for such a small amount of storage.

The Microsoft team defends the drive by talking about how you can delete a television show and redownload it later to save space, but it's clear that these solutions are a workaround. It's a problem, and if Microsoft wants to really get people into buying more content through the 360 and Xbox it's something they're going to have to fix. And I'm not going to be happy if I end up paying $200 for a 40GB HDD.

"So when is the bigger hard drive coming out?" I ask.

"It's a matter of when now, and not if?" Greenberg replies.

They seem more amused than anything. Of course Microsoft is going to release a new hard drive in the future; they'd be throwing money away if they didn't. I can't get a clear answer out of either of them, but I didn't think I would. It is clear that this is an issue they've discussed, and they seem to get a sense out of how much we need a solution to the problem. One of the biggest headaches with the 360 experience is that tiny, tiny HDD, and as file sizes get bigger and more stuff is put up online for purchase, it's only going to get worse.

They need to release a bigger drive as soon as humanly possible, and they have to make sure it's priced so it won't make gamers cringe. If they can get people into a roomier storage solution, they'll be able to sell the customers more content down the line. It's an investment in digital distribution, and it should be looked at that way instead of simply an upgrade they can make money on when they sell it at retail.
Microtransactions and you

There is a lot of money to be made by selling things online, and a few companies are already on board with selling new cars, game levels, and even new guns and upgrades to your vehicles in games. But there is a limit, and EA has recently angered a lot of gamers with their new habit of putting up what amounts to cheat codes online for pay, and "tutorial videos" for Madden that also cost money. EA knows how to cash in wherever there is money to be made and gamers to annoy. I bring up these things and get the expected answers.
PDF
Download the PDF
(This feature for
Premier subscribers only.)

"Vote with your wallet!" I'm told. Fair point, but the fact that these things are being sold at all makes the microtransaction system itself look pretty bad. It's hard to be the classy online system when you're charging for what amounts to a video showing you how to hit buttons, or a shortcut to more money and a bigger gun.

"Our rule is if it's free on another system, you shouldn't have to pay for it through Xbox Live," Greenberg tells me. Good, but soon people are paying $60-70 for the game, $6 a month for Xbox Live, and another $10 to get all the money and equipment they need to beat the game the first day. It’s just greedy, and it's certainly not the way I grew up playing games.

"This is a new market," Greenberg says, but they seem to think by admitting it's a new market this means I should give them a little slack to figure out these issues. I think just the opposite: you should think very, very carefully about what you charge for and what you give away for free. There needs to be some strong rules about what developers can charge for. No matter what company puts their for-pay content on Xbox Live, Microsoft has to sign off on what is being sold.

Ana is a bot

It's time to put the systems in the room to the test and check out how the games look and how the Xbox 360 and PS3 handle upscaling. "If you really wanted to be mean you would have run these tests in 720p or 1080i," I say, referring to the issues that Sony is having with those two resolutions. I appreciate the fact that they wanted to show the PS3 looking as good as possible, and I'm surprised this is something they didn't bring up earlier. They realize what I'm talking about, and Scott Henson opens a small package and shows me what's inside.

"Is that it?" I ask. He nods.

"We call it Ana. This is the scaling chip that's in the 360," he tells me.

It's odd to see it—a tiny little chip—but this may be one of the secret weapons the 360 has against the PS3. The PS3 has no internal hardware scaler, which means games that are 720p native can only be shown in 720p or 480p; there is no scaling up to 1080p or 1080i. This causes people with older HDTVs to have issues with the available resolutions, and keeps them from playing the games in anything but 480p. It's a vexing problem for a system that's supposed to be HD, and this issue is one of the most challenging that Sony faces. I ask the Microsoft guys how important it was for them to include a scaler in the 360.

"It was a critical design decision; we wanted the 360 to be high-definition, not just 1080p or some other standard. That's why we included component cables in the box; there is no HDTV that doesn't have a component in," said Greenberg.

This is where the magic happens

They assume that Sony didn't include a hardware scaler to keep costs down, but get a little cagey when I ask how much it costs to put Ana into the 360. "This isn't a $1,000 scaler," Henson says, "but it's a good one."

It was apparently designed at the same time as the GPU, and the effortless scaling with different televisions was something that was important from the early design stages of the system. I ask if they think this is something that Sony can fix in software.

"It'll be hard," Greenberg answers, "and compatibility testing would be tough with existing software. I think as they update the hardware they'll add a hardware scaler."

I've had the same thought before, but it certainly doesn't make me happy as a first-generation consumer. It will be very interesting to see how Sony ends up fixing this, or if they think it's a problem at all. For the time being, most games will be 720p native, so the majority of HDTV owners will be able to play them. This is an issue that you may or may not care about. Or maybe you have a 1080p set already and this doesn't bother you. It's hard to know just how many people this affects, but you should be aware of which resolutions your television can handle when choosing which system to buy.

Does the lack of hardware scaling affect how games look? We put in a few titles to see.
Resistance: Fall of Man vs. Gears of War

I've played both Gears of War and Resistance: Fall of Man extensively; I gave Gears of War a full review and reviewed Resistance with the PS3. Still, I wanted to see each game on this display to see if a 1080p resolution changed anything.

The first thing it changed was the resolution. When Resistance started, it dumped down into 720p due to the lack of a hardware scaler. Henson turned on the menu of the Bravia to make sure I saw this. I didn't say anything, but the point was made. The game looks great on the Bravia; it's very much a "Call of Duty with mutants"-type of a vibe. I enjoyed the game when I played it, and while it looks great, the graphics are a little on the sterile side. It does have some amazing draw distances later in the game, and is a sharp-looking title. We play for a few moments and chat about the game. Next they put in Gears of War.

The same menu is brought up, and I see that the 360 is upscaling the game into 1080p. Ana is doing a good job, as the game looks fantastic on that display running at that resolution. I find Gears of War a more impressive game graphically;
it uses every trick and special effect you can think of to give you some stunning scenes. Of course, this is also a second-generation game and Epic had a very close relationship with Microsoft through the development process—a level of support most developers don't enjoy. It's not a fair comparison at the moment in terms of looking at the power of both systems; we're going to have to wait until the PS3 gets some second-generation games in a year or so. I raise that point.

"Right, but by then we'll have Halo 3. We'll be on the third–generation games. We hope to always be a little bit ahead," Henson counters.

It's clear they hope to use that year-long head start to its fullest. We put in Call of Duty 3 on both systems. Again the PS3 drops the resolution to 720p. We play a bit of the game, and honestly I can't tell a lot of difference between the two versions of the game. The 360 does look a touch better upscaled into 1080p, but it's a subtle difference. They both look great, with only a few differences in coloring. If it wasn't for the resolution advantage of the 360, I don't know if there would have been any real way to tell the difference between the two systems.

They offer to put in Madden, but I decline. I've seen the videos of the game on both systems; I know it'll be about identical.

"Graphics are a wash," Greenberg says, as we compare games. I have to agree; between the multiplatform games there just isn't a difference. I can't wait to see what Sony has coming down the line, but I get the uncomfortable feeling that they will always be a generation behind what the 360 has done. The question is whether or not developers will max out what the 360 can do and if PS3 will be able to pull ahead.

The importance of that scaler is hard to overestimate. It gives the 360 a built-in advantage over the PS3 and it's something Sony needs to work on as soon as they can. Whether it is a software or hardware solution, they're running at a disadvantage on anything but a 720p-native HDTV in terms of games. Movies, on the other hand...

Mission Impossible 3: the search for an equal resolution

We popped Mission: Impossible 3 in the 360's HD DVD drive, which is external, and we also put in the Blu-ray version for the PS3. Both systems were hooked up at the same time, so we could flip back and forth effortlessly to compare the video quality. In this case, both systems were outputting in 1080p, so there was no advantage in terms of resolution.

We watched the same scene on both systems—the part with the gunfight on the bridge—and flipped back and forth as we went. They freeze-framed a few scenes for me, and tried to explain the difference, such as more detail in the blacker areas on the HD DVD. While the Blu-ray image looked a bit sharp to me when paused, I was hard pressed to tell the difference between the two; the image quality was beautiful across the board. I couldn't tell if they were amused, proud, or horrified when I would frequently get confused about which system's image we were looking at as we flipped back and forth. I gave up trying to take notes on the minute differences between the two and admitted that they were so close it was almost indistinguishable.

I was more intrigued with the HD DVD drive as a piece of hardware. I asked if we would ever see games use the drive. A firm "no." I asked if we would ever see a 360 with an HD DVD drive built-in. Another firm "no." No hesitation.

"We don't want to charge customers $200 extra for something that may be the next Betamax," Henson told me (whoops).

They seem committed to the optional aspect of the HD DVD drive as it keeps the price down for consumers who don't care about HD DVD. It's a much different strategy than Sony's bundling a Blu-ray drive with every PS3. I don't know if it's the right one—HD DVD would certainly catch on faster if they found a way to incorporate it into the 360's design—but the question of a higher price for the hardware is a tough one. Is it really worth raising the price for a feature people don't seem to be asking for? They tell me developers by and large aren't asking for more space or complaining about a lack of space with a regular DVD, outside of a few comments here and there.

There is no real difference in quality based on what I've seen between HD DVD and Blu-ray. Keep in mind that unless your display can handle a 1080p or 1080i resolution the PS3 will downgrade the image into 480p. I don't know how quickly these two competing formats will catch on, but when it comes to image quality, they both look great.
The real story? I'm buying a Sony Bravia

I've had a little over an hour with both pieces of hardware on a great television and have gained a few insights into how Microsoft thinks about the marketplace right now. So far I just don't see much difference in quality between the two systems in terms of graphics, although a few things look better on the 360 simply because developers have had longer to work on the hardware. It's a wash between the multiplatform games, but the lack of a hardware scaler hurts Sony badly at the 1080p resolution; they simply can't upscale the games into that resolution, and the PS3 comes off worse when you look at both versions of a title like Call of Duty right next to one another. It also complicates things for Blu-ray playback since the PS3 can't show a Blu-ray movie in 720p.

Microsoft has used their year-long head start wisely to refine the firmware and online experience with the 360, and that hard work shows through clearly; the PS3 feels a bit unfinished in comparison. Hopefully Sony has some big features they will roll out soon, but for now the Xbox 360 is ahead of the PS3 in what the systems in their current incarnations can do.

Microsoft has really dropped the ball with the hard drive, though. It's just too small and it hurts their vision of people buying their movies and television shows through the 360. It's not an appealing idea until you get something much roomier in there. The "vote with your dollar" argument is also lacking when it comes to microtransactions. You have to be careful with what you charge for if you don't want to look like you're nickel-and-diming customers, and Sony's $3 Lemmings, free entry-level Sudoku download, and $5 PSone games for the PSP are a strong value. A dollar or two here makes a huge difference in how the consumer views you, and pricing should be handled cautiously.

When the PS3 was being hyped, a lot of people assumed the graphics and feature set would be much better than what we had seen on the 360, and while I don’t think the 360 looked much better in these demonstrations, they do prove that the 360 can ably keep up with the PS3 (and in some cases beat it) in terms of features. This hardware war may come down to the whether or not consumers think having Blu-ray is worth the extra cost, or the question of people being bothered by the lack of the hardware scaler. What is and isn't HD is a confusing question, and both systems seem to have different answers.

This should be an interesting next few years.
 

threeball

Banned
One flaw of this report is how they just compare the technical aspects of the systems. Why not compare the games instead? That is what matters most...
 

GhaleonEB

Member
threeball said:
Exactly, anyone who thinks that the 360 didn't underperform in their first year is delusional. The 360 had lackluster sales through November and who knows what happened in December.
That has NOTHING to do with the article. Did you even read it?
 
threeball said:
One flaw of this report is how they just compare the technical aspects of the systems. Why not compare the games instead? That is what matters most...

If they compare the games the Wii and PS3 will come up short compared to the 360 for a long, long time.
 

RavenFox

Banned
Resistance -The game looks great on the Bravia; it's very much a "Call of Duty with mutants"-

Lost points with me with the call of duty comparison. Also why would you want to run a native 720p game upscaled? Also the problem has been fixed. Blah Blah and so forth.
 

painey

Member
its a good read, they seem very dismissive when it comes to the 360s shortcomings but very eager to show off Sonys :lol I think they are trying to disprove that the PS3 is a better system because it costs more.. it costs more because you get more stuff with it. The MS guys seem very sure of themselves in terms of what they have that makes them so much better than the rest but it does seem as if they forget the average consumer thinks Playstation > Xbox and have no idea what an internal scaler is, and most probably dont care.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
painey said:
its a good read, they seem very dismissive when it comes to the 360s shortcomings but very eager to show off Sonys :lol I think they are trying to disprove that the PS3 is a better system because it costs more.. it costs more because you get more stuff with it. The MS guys seem very sure of themselves in terms of what they have that makes them so much better than the rest but it does seem as if they forget the average consumer thinks Playstation > Xbox and have no idea what an internal scaler is, and most probably dont care.
The MS guys, or the writer? The writer was pretty harsh on MS, and he's correct on all of his points. Especially this:

I tell Greenberg and Henson that they're messing up—a 20GB hard drive is simply too small, especially with the video marketplace on Xbox Live. With demos sometimes coming in at over 1GB and rental movies that are over 5GB, you simply don't have a lot of space available. The PS3's 60GB hard drive is much roomier, and both the 20GB and 60GB Sony drives aren’t proprietary; you can slide them out and put in your own drive if you feel like upgrading. In contrast, the 360 hard drive maxes out at 20GB and costs $100, a ridiculous price for such a small amount of storage.
If you mean MS, well, yeah. Consider the source. :lol
 

pswii60

Member
Didn't I read this the other day!? I'm sure this is old.

Something like 'Arstechnica goes to Microsoft' or something
 
painey said:
its a good read, they seem very dismissive when it comes to the 360s shortcomings but very eager to show off Sonys :lol I think they are trying to disprove that the PS3 is a better system because it costs more.. it costs more because you get more stuff with it. The MS guys seem very sure of themselves in terms of what they have that makes them so much better than the rest but it does seem as if they forget the average consumer thinks Playstation > Xbox and have no idea what an internal scaler is, and most probably dont care.

I also think it's amusing they point out "component cables in the box!!" as if it's a big deal. PS2 (and multi console third party cables) can easily be used on the PS3 with no issues.

I'd bet a substantial amount of money that the amount of consumers that bought a Ps3 at launch (edit: to actually game with, not to ebay) but DIDN'T own a Ps2 is close to nil, and the amount of gamers with HD sets using anything but component (those are dirt cheap by now) is even less.
 

lexi

Banned
Good article for the most part, I agree that the 360's biggest shortcoming is the 20gb HDD. Would it have cost that much more to have a 40 or a 60 included?
 
lockii said:
Good article for the most part, I agree that the 360's biggest shortcoming is the 20gb HDD. Would it have cost that much more to have a 40 or a 60 included?

At the time they were being manufactured, yes. Because it was at the start of the laptop SATA era, when SATA laptop drives were double or triple the cost of ATA equivalents.
 

RavenFox

Banned
ChrisAllenFiz said:
At the time they were being manufactured, yes. Because it was at the start of the laptop SATA era, when SATA laptop drives were double or triple the cost of ATA equivalents.
?? So the 360 was completed years ago with the drive already installed? Where do you guys come up with these excuses? That drive at launch should not cost $100.
 

Elhandro

Member
How in the hell did they hook up a 360 into the bravia using VGA. Do Bravia's have VGA inputs or are they using some sort of converter. IF it does, I really need to look into getting a bravia. Also that was an excellent read. Im glad someone got into MS ass about the hard drive and the market place. I wish he would have gotten on them about the live arcade dl size as well but that was a really good read.

As an owner of both systems, The PS3 is a mess for the average joe and anyone who buys one will eventual find out how not having a scaler effects their viewing. A lot of people on GAF dismiss this as growing pains but for early (non-fanboy) adopters this is a big issue.

El ( I wont even talk about the lack of rumble)
 
one thing I definitely agree on is that they need to get bigger, cheaper hard drives out there If they're gonna stay propietary, then it should priced a lot more fair (20-100GB, $50-$130 or so?).

Or if possible, find someone to format any regular drive, while still being able to attach it to the 360's form factor.
 
RavenFox said:
?? So the 360 was completed years ago with the drive already installed? Where do you guys come up with these excuses? That drive at launch should not cost $100.

to be fair, the premium also included upgraded cables as well as a remote and headset- a $100 difference over the core is actually reasonable when you break it down.

However, I'd say the 360's biggest flaw isn't the 20gig hard drive, but the existence of the core system with NO hard drive.

As an owner of both systems, The PS3 is a mess for the average joe and anyone who buys one will eventual find out how not having a scaler effects their viewing. A lot of people on GAF dismiss this as growing pains but for early (non-fanboy) adopters this is a big issue.

Average joe has no idea what a scaler is and will likely not notice. The scaler issue IS fixable via firmware upgrade if sony chooses to do it, so yes, this does fall under "growing pains" and isn't that big of a deal in the long run.
 
RavenFox said:
?? So the 360 was completed years ago with the drive already installed? Where do you guys come up with these excuses? That drive at launch should not cost $100.

I never said that it cost $100, but it would have cost a lot more than you think, considering you could not easily buy at retail a laptop SATA drive when the 360 started manufacturing.

The 20G HD now should be priced at about $50.
 

RavenFox

Banned
Manmademan said:
to be fair, the premium also included upgraded cables as well as a remote and headset- a $100 difference over the core is actually reasonable when you break it down.

However, I'd say the 360's biggest flaw isn't the 20gig hard drive, but the existence of the core system with NO hard drive.



Average joe has no idea what a scaler is and will likely not notice. The scaler issue IS fixable via firmware upgrade if sony chooses to do it, so yes, this does fall under "growing pains" and isn't that big of a deal in the long run.
Agreed.
 
ChrisAllenFiz said:
I never said that it cost $100, but it would have cost a lot more than you think, considering you could not easily buy at retail a laptop SATA drive when the 360 started manufacturing.

The 20G HD now should be priced at about $50.

8 gig PS2 memory cards should run about 16 cents. but they don't....

Memory add ons are like free money to console manufacturers. don't expect a price drop anytime soon.

edit: one of the few things done right with the PSP is allowing the use of generic memory cards for storage...it's only getting MORE useful as prices of 4 gig cards drops down into reasonable range.
 
Manmademan said:
However, I'd say the 360's biggest flaw isn't the 20gig hard drive, but the existence of the core system with NO hard drive.

I originally saw it as a flaw at launch, but I've recently started thinking that this was actually a somewhat (somewhat, not fully, lol) reasonable decision.
 

pswii60

Member
Luckyman said:
Microsoft is trying so hard..

You have to give them credit for doing what they've done so far. They've really got a foothold in the industry. Granted, it took Sony less time to get to the magnitude that they've been for some time now but they had feeble competition at the time.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
those were dumb game comparisons. In both, both machines were outputting native 720p. The only difference was where the scaling was happening. On the 360 it was happening in the machine, on the PS3 it was happening in the TV. Don't see what it was supposed to prove.

As for multiplatform titles looking identical, what do they expect this early?

It seems pretty defensive for MS to be saying 'graphics are a wash' already. The best they can come up with is that 360 multiplatform games might not look any worse than PS3?
 
soul creator said:
I originally saw it as a flaw at launch, but I've recently started thinking that this was actually a somewhat (somewhat, not fully, lol) reasonable decision.

It's not a reasonable decision, since it's limiting what's possible with live arcade. The existence of the core is PRECISELY why you won't be seeing 500meg downloads like Tekken: dark ressurrection on live anytime soon.

The core is also breaking backwards compatability- it's not a priority for microsoft because no core users can take advantage of it. if EVERYONE had a hard drive and the ability to run back-compat software, I GUARANTEE things that SHOULD be playable but arent yet (Panzer dragoon I'm looking at you) would be up and running.

Users without hard drives can't even make use full use of the TV episode downloads etc, since they're simply too large for a mem card. There you go, fragmenting your market for no good reason.

I also suspect load times would be shorter since everyone would be optimizing for the hard drive, but I have no proof of this, so you can toss it in the "speculation" bin. reasons 1, 2, and 3 are good enough for me.

It seems pretty defensive for MS to be saying 'graphics are a wash' already. The best they can come up with is that 360 multiplatform games might not look any worse than PS3?

QFT. The Ps3 is notably more difficult to take advantage of than the 360. This comparison makes as much sense as looking at Ps2 vs. Dreamcast 2 months after launch and declaring a winner based on available games.
 

human5892

Queen of Denmark
Somebody send Sony a whole sack full of Ana scaling chips. I think it's absurd that the PS3 lacks this ability.
 
Zonar said:
I've had a little over an hour with both pieces of hardware on a great television and have gained a few insights into how Microsoft thinks about the marketplace right now. So far I just don't see much difference in quality between the two systems in terms of graphics, although a few things look better on the 360 simply because developers have had longer to work on the hardware. It's a wash between the multiplatform games, but the lack of a hardware scaler hurts Sony badly at the 1080p resolution; they simply can't upscale the games into that resolution, and the PS3 comes off worse when you look at both versions of a title like Call of Duty right next to one another.

That is an interesting point, but also a little misleading. The upscaling helps the xbox 360 look a little better . . . but that is only for games in lower native resolution. Can the xbox 360 actually render games in 1080p with a reasonable framerate? I think the PS3 will do a little better in that department.


But a big problem for Sony is that 3rd party cross-platform developers (EA, ATVI, TTWO, etc.) will probably generate code & graphics that works at the lowest common denominator between the PS3 & xbox . . . they won't put in much effort to make the game look great for the specific platform. So even though the PS3 could display a game better in theory, in practice they'll just look the same. Sony needs to do everything they can to try to get developers to tune the code for their platform.
 
Manmademan said:
It's not a reasonable decision, since it's limiting what's possible with live arcade. The existence of the core is PRECISELY why you won't be seeing 500meg downloads like Tekken: dark ressurrection on live anytime soon.

But MS could produce a 1Gb memory card whenever they wanted too as well. If they did that and it was reasonably priced, they could make large XBLA games without too many people complaining.
 

Meier

Member
I'd never even heard of Ars Technica until about a month or so ago.. but that might be the best written games piece I've ever read. That's how to be a games "journalist."
 

Tieno

Member
I'm just sad that neither platform gets it right on all the important stuff for me.
It's like both of them deliberately sabotage their product when it all seems so easy and logic to me. Still worth it, just seem like missed opportunities.
 
mrklaw said:
those were dumb game comparisons. In both, both machines were outputting native 720p. The only difference was where the scaling was happening. On the 360 it was happening in the machine, on the PS3 it was happening in the TV. Don't see what it was supposed to prove.

It proves that the lack of scaler in the PS3 is a major problem because games developed at 720P that play on a 1080P tv set--remember it was Sony beating the 1080P drum--look better on the 360. If folks who own a 1080P tv think the PS3 is the best choice given that resolution, they've been misinformed.


As for multiplatform titles looking identical, what do they expect this early?

Given the added expense of the PS3 and Sony's Xbox 1.5 talk, examples of the Ps3's superiority. Duh!

It seems pretty defensive for MS to be saying 'graphics are a wash' already. The best they can come up with is that 360 multiplatform games might not look any worse than PS3?

Once again it's the PS3 that has a lot to prove in the graphics area given their past PR statements, promises and current costs. It's clear from this demonstration that MS's on the offensive not the defensive.
 
ChrisAllenFiz said:
I never said that it cost $100, but it would have cost a lot more than you think, considering you could not easily buy at retail a laptop SATA drive when the 360 started manufacturing.

The 20G HD now should be priced at about $50.

But console makers traditionally use hardware accessories as another way to recoup the original console subsidy. So MSFT makes a good profit on 20GB drives sold to core owners and those total rip-off $40 memory cards. So don't expect a price-drop on that drive.

Sony made a HUGE business mistake by allowing users to put in their own 2.5" SATA drives. I lost an argument on whether people could use their own 2.5" SATA with the PS3 in an earlier thread because I just couldn't believe Sony would be that nice/stupid. And to compound matters, Sony doesn't have a propreitary headset so you can just pick up any cheap bluetooth headset and use it with the PS3 . . . again, this is GREAT for the consumer but another HUGE business mistake by Sony. Sony could have reduced their console price if these things were proprietary.
 

ypo

Member
Since this article is a repost I'll repost my comment as well :D

It's like they are oblivous to the fact that Sony Bravia scales 720P to 1080P. So their comparisons are pretty damn stupid with the "OMG look guys X360 scales to 1080P!!!! " They should've picked a different TV if they are so clever.
 
speculawyer said:
Sony made a HUGE business mistake by allowing users to put in their own 2.5" SATA drives. I lost an argument on whether people could use their own 2.5" SATA with the PS3 in an earlier thread because I just couldn't believe Sony would be that nice/stupid. And to compound matters, Sony doesn't have a propreitary headset so you can just pick up any cheap bluetooth headset and use it with the PS3 . . . again, this is GREAT for the consumer but another HUGE business mistake by Sony. Sony could have reduced their console price if these things were proprietary.

I agree it was a mistake. I do think MS need to get out a 60 or 100G drive though, which would allow the 20G to drop in line.
 
Top Bottom