Impeccable
Member
There is no way I am purchasing a XbOne anywhere near launch now,mI'm not risking this.
Thanks insider friends.
Thanks insider friends.
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TRUTHFACT: MS having eSRAM yield problems on Xbox One
- Thread starter chubigans
- Start date
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You mean spend 500 milllion more dollars, test-test-test, manage to piss off third parties who you have TIMED exclusives with, AND give Sony a head start?
dragonelite
Member
Im more siding to this.
Seems like a fucking mess with the higher ups at microsoft.
Maybe that is why they are restructuring and give mattrick a better place.
portugueseguy
Neo Member
And all those sweet $$$$$$ from sales on holiday 2013 would be gone... and the bonuses too!
Priorities priorities.
This logic baffles me, and I don't know why people think this will happen just because.
At the end of the day the console that sells the most becomes the lead platform whether it is underpowered or overpowered, there are instances like the Xbox vs PS2 where the Xbox was the lead platform and was highly favoured by PC devs because of ease of programming, but from what's been said so far Sony is farther along in that regard.
Normally the first year of a console's new launch is ass in terms of displaying what the new generation is about from third parties and you usually end up with what ultimately feels like up-ports from the previous generation.
Acheteedo
Member
It was yeah, and you're right, it's gone now... I guess they got a "oh shit" email from Microsoft basically telling them the outlook is a little hazy.
Timed you say? Mirror's Edge 2?
It wasnt a downclock... They basically used different memory chips at lower frequency.
Why would being a GAF member preclude someone from having inside knowledge?
Can Crusher
Banned
25% of the APU is occupied by 32MB of ESRAM.
I don't get it man. I just don't get it.
Better than having a failed product for 5 or more years. There's a real chance this shit is gonna backfire.
I don't get it man. I just don't get it.
Better than having a failed product for 5 or more years. There's a real chance this shit is gonna backfire.
It not all doom and gloom for MS
power has never determined the winner and its certainly no wii/wiiu situation in regards to power and 3rd party support.
As long as the X1 gets the same 3rd party support as the PS4, the power difference will only effect like 5% of the gaming population.
power has never determined the winner and its certainly no wii/wiiu situation in regards to power and 3rd party support.
As long as the X1 gets the same 3rd party support as the PS4, the power difference will only effect like 5% of the gaming population.
McHuj
Member
Right now, the EDRAM seems to be only available on 40nm/32nm nodes. 28nm EDRAM is in development, but I'm aware of any shipping products with it.
For MS, I think the decision was a XCGPU setup APU + eDRAM daughter die, a WiiU like setup with CPU and GPU/EDRAM on separate dies (since the eDRAM would be on a different node), or APU with ESRAM on chip. In theory, with everything on chip power consumption and performance could be better.
Using eSRAM guarantees that there will be little issues when shrinking to 20nm, 14nm, and if there's anything beyond that as SRAM is fundamental to any chip design. eDRAM is not guaranteed at those nodes. I think MS just decided to bite the bullet knowing that yields could be an issue now, but after a shrink to the next node, the decision will payoff. It seems everything was designed with long-term cost savings in mind.
DC1
Member
If there is a 3 gen console curse then the PS3 most have an ample supply of 'curse be gone'.
Two things:
1) The Xbox 360 was/is no joke.
2) Sony performed most of the 'cursing' on themselves.
Wait!.... I didn't refute anything did I?
pharmboy044
Member
Ah so those(ME2, Titan, DR3) are timed exclusives like Bioshock? Any idea how long the exclusivity lasts? I'm guessing a year?
maabus1999
Member
So if you don't believe in the stock pricing, maybe you should look at their financials instead? Then do a pro forma for the next five years? Then show everyone how MSFT is going to tank by setting your stock price target? Remember that the LTG is a large factor in stock pricing so if you want it to tank, make it negative.
And if you end up being right over all the industry analysts, you could get a job making millions too!
frankie_baby
Member
Adds an extra billion to the transistor count, moar transistors is better don't ya know
Listen to the Gopher people
And who will pay for those buckets full of dead chips?
velociraptor
Junior Member
I don't see what the Xbone being weaker has to do with the quality of visuals on the PS4.
PC ports of all 360/PS3 games hands down destroy their console counterparts. It isn't going to be very difficult for devs to make their PS4 games prettier than the Xbone games.
PC ports of all 360/PS3 games hands down destroy their console counterparts. It isn't going to be very difficult for devs to make their PS4 games prettier than the Xbone games.
Can Crusher
Banned
Clearly.
And let's not forget, similar GPU (but faster) and CPU architecture.... with better tools and more available unified and faster ram...
Turning on graphical options will be easy as cake.
KimonoNoNo
Member
Well the psp upped their clocks (maybe reinstated is a better word) a good while after it launched.
Impeccable
Member
Best part about timed exclusives is that developers tend to put incentives to buy the game on other platforms. Now add in a vast power difference and those timed exclusives will end up being way better on PS4.
I'd say that the development side is pretty well represented here on GAF, like almost any videogame related group; the outlier being games journalists. They come here to read, but they reply on Twitter.
EDIT: Oh, you were talking about manufacturing specifically. My mistake.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
It wouldn't necessarily, but I wasn't aware anyone on Gaf worked at MS or the manufacturing locations and could share this kind of news. Just seemed from the OP like two people speculating, and further down one even mentioned the problems were not true.
This makes sense, thanks for the explanation.
demosthenes
Member
How can Microsoft be so bad when it comes to hardware. They have so much money, why can't they hire people to be smart in this.
phosphor112
Banned
Into the clouds?
DC1
Member
Such a very true statement.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Every single quote there was speculation and educated guesses that anyone could have typed from scouring B3D or even here. Barely any specifics. You even linked a quote where you bolded where you said "it will have 8gb of ram"... in a thread about the same subject, and then used that post in your compilation. You don't have any sources. Even in this thread all you did was ape Thuway's rumor. "Yeah, my sources tell me the same"... durrr. And I'm not personally attacking you. Stop trying to spin this into a "personal attack" in an attempt to get someone in trouble. It's called questioning your already dubious credibility, which is perfectly fine to do in a medium like this.
would someone mind updating me from yesterday?
as of the OP, it sounded like the issue was not actually GPU clock speeds, but esram limited. is that still the case, or has more information come out pointing to downgrading clock speeds again?
also, in addition to hardware issues, the OS is fucked? this is based on inside information or just that the reveal demo was faked (which i'd assume would virtually always be the case for a big reveal on stage with early hardware and software to avoid bugs/crashes/embarrassing moments)
as of the OP, it sounded like the issue was not actually GPU clock speeds, but esram limited. is that still the case, or has more information come out pointing to downgrading clock speeds again?
also, in addition to hardware issues, the OS is fucked? this is based on inside information or just that the reveal demo was faked (which i'd assume would virtually always be the case for a big reveal on stage with early hardware and software to avoid bugs/crashes/embarrassing moments)
People tend to think in patterns, for example many thought that this gen, MS would launch first and Sony would slip into 2014, because that happened last time so its bound to happen again sort of deal
They think because 360 was the often the lead platform for multiplatform games that it will be that again, without counting on the fact that the 360 launched a full year ahead of the competition
The idea that Microsoft will mandate that the PS4 version cannot look or run better is down bizarre, neither MS or anyone else has that kind of leverage to ask this of publishers, its beyond insanity to suggest it. Xbox 1 games and GC games often looked and ran better than the PS2 versions, despite Sony dominating the industry at that time.
People thought that Microsoft would easily make a more powerful console than the PS4 because they were/are financially better equipped to do it, and yet here we are. Its the same reason people threw logic out the window and thought EA was going full exclusive on Xbone.
Publishers have nothing to gain to appease MS or Sony, they will try to push their games as much as they can in order to make as much money as they can. And MS is not some worldwide mob organization that can threaten people with demands, this isent the wild west.
Well at the end of the day, just how bad could it be? I admit I was never a fan of the One for their DRM policies, but I find this amazing this late in the game they only now just realized they had such a huge potential problem.
Will this make them delay their launch, or will they lower their clocks enough to make the system stable no matter how much they affect performance.
Will this make them delay their launch, or will they lower their clocks enough to make the system stable no matter how much they affect performance.
McHuj
Member
That's just a product of the number of shaders. Each shader can execute 1 multiply-add operation per cycle.
Unless they start disabling shaders, that number won't change.
Can Crusher
Banned
They did hire the best people to make the hardware. But at the same time, they gave those people a shitty goal.
In reality, it could've been worse.
maabus1999
Member
Outside of digital foundry and similar technical analysis, most people will never notice the real-world difference between the two consoles. Those "50%, 33%, 123.4%" numbers throw out really don't mean much outside of the paper its printed, mainly because for both boxes we do not know what the system bottleneck is (my guess is the CPU for both). And in the long run, bottlenecks is where the great equalizer is located. If the X1 has a worse bottleneck, then it will be worse, and vice versa for the PS4 if it had a more severe one by chance.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Correct they went from 6.0Gbps GDDR5 chips to 5.5Gbps which use less power 1.6V vs 1.35V
But all PSPs were capable, it's wasn't a hardware change, it was a FW change.
demosthenes
Member
I like that answer more, I was thinking about this earlier about how MS is trying to compete with EVERYONE and make a product to capture everyone and everything in it that to try to get there, they're going to miss their goal horribly.
You cray. Shitty downgrade is forever. They can fix a shitty os.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
I still hold the thought that in previous generations it was easy to mask power differences through showpiece games most people couldn't tell the difference between unless side by side.Except last gen when it came to the phenomenon that was the Wii, which I don't think we will see again this gen. Part of that was because of the differences in architecture making porting and optimization more of a hassle. However, this coming generation the architecture is the same with PS4 actually having all the advantages of better specs, unified memory pool, and a maturer dev environment. So all of that should make optimization for the PS4 not only easier but yield very noticeable results. Jonathan Blow even went as far as speculating it could be a difference of the PS4 getting a 60FPS version while the Xbox gets 30FPS.
The real kicker? The PS4 could very well be cheaper to purchase.
Their goal relies more on (a change of) perception than (a change of) reality. They have built a filter/funnel. I don't see why they can't succeed.
Damn it's over the Gopher has popped in.
CPU is only a bottleneck if a game is designed to demand a lot from the CPU. This is highly up to a game per game basis.
Even so, considering the fact that GPGPU is going to be a big thing this gen, even more importance will be put on the GPU as it will be able to pick up some tasks normally given to the CPU (physics being the obvious one). I actually don't really think the CPU will be much of an issue at all this gen if the physics are offloaded.
Even if Xbone will release at state like rumors say it won't be failure. Only failure will be when Xbone won't sell.
Someone here said eDram can't be produced everywhere (only few fabs)
Honestly this sounds to me more like they didn't plan at all lunching 2013 but Sony suprized them and shit got real @ MS. This would explain why they waited so long for response to that meeting.
One thing is sure. Sony got lucky a lot.
Honestly after you take physic off from CPUs there isn't really much that CPU need to calculate. Only few games on PC are CPU limited like Civilization and i don't see many of those games being on consoles.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Good grief, what a disaster. No wonder they're rumored to be launching a salvo of money hats to third-parties for exclusives.
Confidence Man
Member
So I assume all the games for E3 aren't taking this into consideration?
ShogunDarius
Member
That is worrisome tbh
No. One thing is for sure- Sony prioritized the gamer and the developer. Microsoft looked at your grandmother and wanted to know how to get her to like dubstep.
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