Huh? All of us have digestion problems at some point. Some of us have em more than others. Get it?
Also, the rest weren't that obvious to me though I regularly follow this stuff. I must be slow
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Huh? All of us have digestion problems at some point. Some of us have em more than others. Get it?
Also, the rest weren't that obvious to me though I regularly follow this stuff. I must be slow
Good point. It's funny to see games with smaller scales like fighting or sports game that can't even run full 1080p. It's sad to say but I somehow doubt full 1080p with maximum eye candy will be the norm this generation for both consoles. I hope I'm wrong. As for differences, I'm going to wait until testing on the multiplats are done.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
All PS4 launch window titles run 1080p with at least 30fps so far other than Battlefield 4 which runs sub 1080p on both. I'd be very surprised if a WWS game ran less than 1080p@30fps
Tesseract
Banned
Errr .... based on what? That certainly wasn't true of a bunch of E3 builds.
Very interesting. Did not know that. MS needs to step their game up then on future releases.
By definition, max eye candy and max resolution aren't combineable. Pushing one means limiting the other. This is something that will remain forever. If you doubled the power of a console or a PC, you could use that extra power for more eye candy, for a higher resolution or for a combination of both.
I agree - MS cares about core gamers *now*. But their track record with the 360 wouldn't give a fence sitter confidence that they will continue that support for the full lifetime of the consoles wheatears with Sony you would have that confidence.
Judging on launch titles and announced titles, I'd say MS has the stronger line-up. But if you're a core gamer that follows things at all, you'll know that Sony has state they have more games planned for 2014 than MS, they just haven't announced them all yet (whereas MS pretty much has). Add that to the confidence of long-term support and I'd say Sony has a stronger long-term hand
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
Based on watching every video and reading every article on the internet about the console I most want?
Killzone Shadow Fall, Driveclub, NFS Rivals, Knack, Infamous, AC Black Flag, Destiny - DF Hands on all 1080p 30fps minimum
Call of Duty Ghosts - Eurogamer 1080p60fps
Watch Dogs - Gamespot unconfirmed 1080p but if they are targeting 30fps then it has to be 1080p.
Fifa 14 - futhead confirmed 1080p60fps, which is also safe to assume that Madden, NBA, etc.. will also run 1080p considering its same engine.
Do I need to go on?
I agree. And I think people need to be a little less critical of thing a like 900p, because I expect some ps4 games will start using that later in the generation. Either to keep up with PC engines pushing forward, or simply to allow for more time per pixel
Somebody needs to record a clip of PC footage in 900p and 1080p and then upscale the 900p version to 1080p and upload them somewhere so we can play them and see. Maybe even do a version where you have them side by side.
Of course nobody will see real games like that - if you mostly get 900p games that's what you'd be used to.
corrosivefrost
Member
How do you know you'll like the Xbone controller better than PS4? Have you tried them yet?
Even if you do, I'm sure you can find a cross-system adapter eventually.
fatgamecat
Member
Could MS's "whisper quiet" mandate be causing heating issues? That's the only thing I can think of as the box, heatsink, and fan look large enough.
Or maybe it's just rushed hardware design issues overall.
Or maybe it's just rushed hardware design issues overall.
I'd like some devs or more technical posters to comment on whether - if Xbox one settled on 900p for most titles - they'd be able to handle all the detail and a perfects per pixel that the PS4 would. Feels about right - 1080p is about 50% more pixels than 900p which matches well with 50% more CUs on PS4, 900p would fit better in the limited ESRAM, HUD can be native 1080p with the display planes, Xbox one has the same number of geometry engines as PS4.
If so, I'd be much more comfortable choosing an Xbox one for Multiplatform games if everything was on par other than resolution.
If so, I'd be much more comfortable choosing an Xbox one for Multiplatform games if everything was on par other than resolution.
I guess you do, because you've posted a bunch of articles about targeted and promised resolutions - for both platforms, no less - and not much evidence of confirmed shipping products. If you're going to make definitive statements like "All PS4 launch window titles run 1080p with at least 30fps" you'd better have some evidence to back that up.
This is just precious. Can't wait to see the looks on the faces of all the believers in secret sauce.
lifeexpectancy
Member
Where's that Rob Ryan .gif when you need it?
I really hope Cb's not right about this but I fear he is and more's the pity because the last thing we need next gen is outdated tech holding us back. The WiiU might've caused that but it hasn't been adopted widely by 3rd party devs so I think we're safe from it, but if XB1 is widely developed for I think it may negatively affect the games. Sure they may be optimized for PS4 and have 1080p and better textures, but making a game better via optimization versus actually coding it that way from the start seems like we'd still be getting the short end of the stick as gamers.
I really hope Cb's not right about this but I fear he is and more's the pity because the last thing we need next gen is outdated tech holding us back. The WiiU might've caused that but it hasn't been adopted widely by 3rd party devs so I think we're safe from it, but if XB1 is widely developed for I think it may negatively affect the games. Sure they may be optimized for PS4 and have 1080p and better textures, but making a game better via optimization versus actually coding it that way from the start seems like we'd still be getting the short end of the stick as gamers.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Only a 1080p LED TV mate
ionicbluebird
Member
But eventually the PS4 games will run at 900p for bigger and better graphix. Then you're left with 720p on Xbone.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I'm not saying I can see every detail, but the difference side by side is there even at that distance, not enough to make a big deal out of
But it is there, but who sits 13ft away from their TV most Home Cinemas only allow 5ft distance so it's obviously not ideal unless you have a projector. And at 5ft it very noticeable.
I don't understand how someone can moan about certain games not being 1080p yet this is ok, makes no sense.
eso76
Member
Ok, but i think a 25% performance boost in pixel rate is well worth the difference
Like i said, i think people need to be more liberal about resolution.
It's only one aspect of a graphics engine. People like to bring it up all the time because it's one you can attach a number to, so it becomes easy to measure and compare, but there's much more to a graphics engine.
There's many aspects you don't find written on the cover that are more crucial to visuals.
Liabe Brave
Member
Based on pixel counting, Knack, Killzone, Driveclub, Infamous, Destiny, and Blacklight: Retribution are all 1080p. Of course, that's just from officially-released direct-feed gameplay as of now. With time still to go before launch, it's not impossible these numbers could change. But his claim is in the present tense, and you apparently have no evidence against it besides disputatiously meticulous cynicism.
It becomes important because the device you have the image on has a native res. Ergo, the image quality will suffer, if there isnt pixel per pixel mapping. It determines the sharpness of the picture. Scaling will always result in worse image quality because missing information has to be produced out of nowhere.
Quadraphonic
Member
It's not new cynicism.
Remember earlier this year?
"Just wait, Sony will announce DRM."
I should be doing hw
Member
What does that have to do with something that has more evidence than the pure heresay that you're referring to?
The problem is that if you start compromising with resolutions at the very start of the generation, you're only gonna go down from there. We already know that PS4 games won't stay at 1080p forever, but at least once they have to start downgrading to keep up with PC games or whatever they're starting from the top. Xbone games aren't, and they'll have to keep up too.
I don't think it'll be all that long before we encounter sub-720p xbone games, and "900p sweet spot" discussions will shift to PS4.
travisbickle
Member
Man, I hope it's more an issue with early development on the Xbox1 than the theory both these consoles are not going to provide 1080p for long!
Steve McQueen
Member
I'm no expert, so sorry if my question sounds kinda dumb. The problems Cboat is mentioning....is there any way MS can fix them ( with a mandatory day one update or something )? I mean, the units must be in production right now and time is running out. If there are problems regarding the reliability of their product they must be in panic mode right now.
something fishy
Member
cboats's comments are so vague they could be right or wrong about anything.
perfectly timed though to get the negatives flying and disrupt things further. It's all a bit suspicious to me as a relative outsider.
There's no way to tell since we don't even know what the problem is. All Cboat said was there is some risk related to the up clock. Is it hardware, software, yield or business? No idea. A risk could very well just be that, a risk. It may never turn into an actual problem. So, it's all up in the air. The only thing Cboat seemed clear about is that we can kiss goodbye to 1080p for most xbox one titles.
eso76
Member
i don't think so, that's not what happened this gen.
i REALLY don't think so.
Steve McQueen
Member
Thanks for your reply. The fact that Cboat mentions risk, is enough for me to think there are serious issues. I'm concerned. I've preordered the Xbone and as a customer this news does not make me a happy customer.
I don't know what's so unbelievable about either of these, tbh. Plenty of games this gen have been sub-HD or had very poor framerates, and that's on hardware that was powerful for its time.
Quadraphonic
Member
You don't understand how computers work.
NTIETS13A_Superiority
Banned
yields are only problem if one does not get acceptable yields. There is general problems with getting good/acceptable/wanted yields. But when you got yields problem you do not get wanted yields.
I would not think it is common sense that most games would not be done at 1080p on XBO but after seeing forza direct feed I can understand it. It was quite jagged and in need of AA. The most impressive thing about it was gone.
Other than not being ready, I believe HW issues is just one reason why we aren't hearing of a lot of consoles ready for preorder.
To upclock is to increase the maximum output of a hardware component. This typically increases the amount of heat the component creates, and heat is capable of aging and killing hardware. The more heat that is generated over longer periods of time, the more likely that the hardware will eventually degrade or fail.
The dimensions of the Xbox One hardware, and its ability to contend with heat, will define how vulnerable it is to hardware degradation. User care will also aid the lifetime of any piece of hardware. Consoles are specifically designed to be turned on and off often (unlike computers), so turn your console off when it is not in use. Give the console a 15 minute break once every 3 hours. Store the console in a spacious, cool area. Avoid placing the console on an object or in a space that retains heat, such as carpet. Do not place a console in direct sunlight, and controlling the room temperature via air conditioning or a fan is helpful as well.
No matter how poorly designed a piece of hardware is, if you can keep it cool, you will extend its lifetime.
A big issue I foresee with the Xbox One is that it's advertised as a general entertainment machine. Its "always-on" features imply that it should be always on--but should it? Should an upclocked piece of hardware be left running for such long amounts of time? I suggest that Xbox One owners pay close attention to how much heat the console produces when you are not playing video games. If the console generates as much heat with its cable television feature as it does rendering video games, I would avoid leaving the television on for a long time. Hopefully this is not the case! Hopefully the console goes into some kind of smart "stand-by mode" during television playback.
In the event that the Xbox One does have common heat issues, yes, Microsoft absolutely does have the ability to disable the upclock. This could be done easily via a typical firmware update. Not only do they have the ability to disable the upclock, but any game can be altered (downgraded) via software updates to suit the hardware.
Also note that, while the Xbox One may not be capable of true 1080p for some games, they may be able to cheese it. They could, like some current gen games, crop out part of the image that would have been rendered to make the game (fake) "widescreen". This would allow the game to be 1080p and non-upscaled, at the expense of having black bars at the top and bottom of the screen. This fake type of widescreen can often reduce processing load by up to 25%.
As IQ goes UP , resolution is going to go DOWN.
All those pretty end of generation games we get come at the expense of frame rate and resolution.
I should be doing hw
Member
IQ means Image Quality, if the Resolution goes down then so does the IQ. Effects aren't IQ.
Not only that but history this generation has proven the exact opposite. Res went up as did the effects. Just take Oblivion on 360 with its 600p res and sub 30 fps and look at Skyrim - 720p and steady 30 fps with better streaming, better engine and physics and effects. Same goes for GTA, Halo, etc.
Sword Of Doom
Member
It's to be expected. Is anyone surprised by this? It's just weird that the XB1 is setting the bar so low right from the start.
While this is possible indeed, it would be suicidal to force a downgrade once the console is out. Every game would need a patch, and the impact on their brand image would be devastating. They'd rather do what they did with the 360 and simply change the old unreliable consoles with the new ones when they melt.
something fishy
Member
20 years after graduating and working in the field i'm convinced I know the bloody things less well than ever. moves so fast.
I think it's common in every field, really. The more you know about something, the more you know about all the things you don't know.
That's not true since some engines matured much better than others, and shitty frame-rates and/or res most of the time meant that the devs had the wrong priorities (Far Cry 3 comes to mind), if anything the logical thing is to improve things as the devs learn more the hadrware and not to push the tech to a point where you have to compromise performance and IQ.
In other words from teams like Ubisoft Montreal we can expect shitty frame-rates and res but from teams like Rockstar, Rocksteady or Epic I doubt we'll see anything other than at least competent results on next gen hardware even 5-6 years from now.
1. Its 2013. I expect nothing less.
2. Any game can hit 1080p on XB1. It all depends on how far devs want to push the platform.
3. KZ:SF, if:SS has your eye candy already at 1080p. More eye candy than the competition at 720/900, IMO.
Like on PS3 right now... everything is sub-hd and 20fps, we know.
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