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[Psycho_Mantis]

The Sessler video that people are talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf2iVUMRD3A

To sum up the video:

• Microsoft didn't have a policy problem with DRM just a messaging problem (continued through most of the video)
• If you include playstation plus and playstation eye PS4 is actually more expensive then the Xbox one
• The "angry internet mob" changed XBO policies instead spending time on something more useful
• We don't have enough information about PS4 and Sony and is talking down from the ivory tower just like Microsoft is
• Sessler isn't a biased fanboy, but anyone criticizing him a very very sad fanboy that only derives his identity from the company he argues for

Unsubscribed after that video.

 

[RaikuHebi]

The Sessler video that people are talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf2iVUMRD3A

To sum up the video:

• Microsoft didn't have a policy problem with DRM just a messaging problem (continued through most of the video)
• If you include playstation plus and playstation eye PS4 is actually more expensive then the Xbox one
• The "angry internet mob" changed XBO policies instead spending time on something more useful
• We don't have enough information about PS4 and Sony and is talking down from the ivory tower just like Microsoft is
• Sessler isn't a biased fanboy, but anyone criticizing him a very very sad fanboy that only derives his identity from the company he argues for

He says that the game companies are in ivory towers and bubbles compared to us (not as true for Sony as it is for MS). But he himself is in an ivory tower and bubble conpared to us.

 

[Faustek]

[*] Sessler isn't a biased fanboy, but anyone criticizing him a very very sad fanboy that only derives his identity from the company he argues for
[/LIST]

Your opinion or his?

Josh, good post.

My own thoughts.

As many know a lot of countries say Americans are stupid, don't think anyone truly believes it but just something "we" say.
But what is happening? Majority of US based sites really try to downplay the differences. If I think about many large-as-hell sites do. Even PC sites that are known to be extremely nitpicky over 5-10 frames are trying to downplay the differences at launch trying to compare it to the Cell and the power-PC which is incredibly stupid. All this leads to are that we are making the majority of game journos into clowns, even the good ones and once again all I see is talk about how "stupid Americans are" for believing in the ads.

It makes me annoyed. I know people are stupid we all are. Everyone has an ad that "tricked" us in a way, mine is that infomercial with the water sofa cleaner thing, it rocks.

But anyway all in all I just want the consoles to be treated the same way. Not playing favorites if you claim to be a journo, Jason we all know the 3DS rocks, but start reporting facts as you did 07-till now instead of what many of you are doing now(not everyone ofc).

And in reality we have to wait for launch and we'll see everything laid open.

 

[Hanmik]

I see some sites are starting to do some nice Journalistic articles.. maybe soon we all can see the light..!

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Stuff

Really great post, Josh.

Jason, I really don't believe you have any reason to feel upset by this thread. Kotaku is currently doing well because you guys don't seem to be on the Bone damage limitation train like IGN, Polygon, Eurogamer/DF and others.

Like so many have said before, objectivity means reporting the facts objectively, not playing down advantages of one of the consoles to make it look more even.

The facts are that the PS4 has 50% more CUs, has more compute power, is smaller and cheaper. Those points are all facts and I have seen a number of articles on Kotaku saying exactly this, which is why your readership is rising. Saying it like it is and not BSing your readership into some phoney-war like DF or IGN talking about "balance" has worked in your favour. I hope that it continues this way.

 

[semiconscious]

I could be wrong about his person though. 6 months from now I could be eating crow. I just haven't seen anything to really paint the man as being likely in the pocket of Microsoft.

from earlier on this page (my bolded)

The Sessler video that people are talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf2iVUMRD3A

To sum up the video:

• Microsoft didn't have a policy problem with DRM just a messaging problem (continued through most of the video)
• If you include playstation plus and playstation eye PS4 is actually more expensive then the Xbox one
• The "angry internet mob" changed XBO policies instead spending time on something more useful
• We don't have enough information about PS4 and Sony and is talking down from the ivory tower just like Microsoft is
• Sessler isn't a biased fanboy, but anyone criticizing him a very very sad fanboy that only derives his identity from the company he argues for

you wanna wait another 6 months, that's your option. but the bolded points, particularly the second 'fuzzy math' one, are, for me & others, more than enough of a demonstration of a conscious, deliberate attempt to mislead in ms' favor...

 

[satam55]

I definitely will, thanks

edit: she is less attractive when not in gif form haha

No, she look just as good as in that episode of the bonus round (http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/vx1ia3/bonus-round-is-this-next-gen-) as does in the gif.

But I do agree that she looks better on that episode of the Bonus Round, than she does on The Escapist's Youtube channel. I think it's because she was showing off her legs.

 

[Chinner]

Really great post, Josh.

Jason, I really don't believe you have any reason to feel upset by this thread. Kotaku is currently doing well because you guys don't seem to be on the Bone damage limitation train like IGN, Polygon, Eurogamer/DF and others.

Like so many have said before, objectivity means reporting the facts objectively, not playing down advantages of one of the consoles to make it look more even.

The facts are that the PS4 has 50% more CUs, has more compute power, is smaller and cheaper. Those points are all facts and I have seen a number of articles on Kotaku saying exactly this, which is why your readership is rising. Saying it like it is and not BSing your readership into some phoney-war like DF or IGN talking about "balance" has worked in your favour. I hope that it continues this way.

yeah agreed. i don't particularly browse kotaku that often, but what i see on the site and posted on gaf seems pretty good, if anything the quality of their output is probably the highest its ever been.

 

[Wiktor]

Even PC sites that are known to be extremely nitpicky over 5-10 frames are trying to downplay the differences at launch .

Well..from pc perspective the difference is pretty small. Especially in case of BF4 where PS4 fails to reach 1080p. From PC perspective both next-gen console versions are blurry and dissapointing.

 

[IvorB]

First of all, this is going to be long. It's also probably going to say a lot of things you already know. GAF is generally full of tech-savvy folks, and this thread has more of that than usual. So I know you already know about resolution and pixels and frame rates. Please don't take it as patronizing when I spell it all out. I'm just trying to "show my work", as it were.

...

I was wrong to argue that the peformance difference was negligible. I was wrong to dismiss those who felt like they were being betrayed. I was wrong to not question the opinionated conclusions of others in the press who apparently haven't tested this issue themselves in a real-world scenario.

Truce?

I feel I'm missing some history here. I take it you are a member of the gaming press. It's all well and good posting this stuff here but the people that need to know this would probably be your general readers. Unless I have picked up the wrong end of the stick in which case I apologise.

 

[Skeff]

Well..from pc perspective the difference is pretty small. Especially in case of BF4 where PS4 fails to reach 1080p. From PC perspective both next-gen console versions are blurry and dissapointing.

And yet if they were comparing a 7850 to a 7770 but the 7850 was cheaper, I think we'd get a different article wouldn't we? where the differences were major.

 

[IvorB]

Being a freelance game features writer, I'd say there's actual journalism in the game industry; stories that explore developer/studio processes and backgrounds, game industry history, stories on how games affect the personal lives of people, and critical analysis of video game mechanics and trends, etc. These stories just don't get as much attention as the usual news/press release articles.

Another problem is that some do not practice journalistic ethics like most journalists in other entertainment media.

There may be evidence of trace elements of journalism present in the gaming press but the majority of the content could best be described as "dudes writing about gaming". It's pretty worthless by-and-large but pretty par for the course for people covering an entertainment/leisure industry.

I know people really want hard-hitting, investigative journalism from sites like Eurogamer and IGN but the type of journalists that want to do that are probably off covering something important, not video games.

 

[Feorax]

I'm wondering if maybe Josh's post deserves it's own thread? If only because it's the first proper analysis of the situation we have.

It's also a good way to highlight exactly what we want out of outlets, rather than being constantly written off as "lol, fanboy".

 

[Wiktor]

And yet if they were comparing a 7850 to a 7770 but the 7850 was cheaper, I think we'd get a different article wouldn't we? where the differences were major.

Yeah, but that's comparing high end to high end. With consoles it's all low end. It's just about deciding which one is uglier.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Both Forbes and PC Mag weigh in:

I’d simply argue that the resolution difference is not nearly as big a deal as the price difference to the target demographic. You can disagree with that, but you need to remember that if you’re reading this and feel compelled to comment, then you probably aren’t the target demographic.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/11/03/call-of-duty-ghosts-launches-at-the-center-of-xbox-one-controversy/

To an average gamer, however – one who isn't perusing Web forums on a daily basis for up-to-the-second console news — is this controversy actually going to produce results that are noticeable? That's Kain's take: That most console gamers "probably won't care" about the difference in resolution output.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2426710,00.asp?kc=PCRSS03069TX1K0001121


PC Mag's bit is really just an assembled bunch of quotes from elsewhere. Kinda lazy.

 

[Glass Shark]

The XB1 upscaler is the same as on any AMD 7xxx card as it is part of the GPU.

If you were using a 720p picture upscaled to a 1080p resolution on your PC with n AMD 7XXX, then you have the same upscaler, This is also the same upscaler as the PS4.

EDIT: good post though.

Interestingly enough, that's exactly my setup. Thanks for the tip.

Thanks for all the kind words about my post, everyone. I still feel pretty bad that I was so boneheaded about this before. I appreciate the chance to make it right. I just wish I hadn't ignored this issue so long, because it would make a great article and now I wonder whether it's too late.

 

[poisonelf]

Both Forbes and PC Mag weigh in:


http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/11/03/call-of-duty-ghosts-launches-at-the-center-of-xbox-one-controversy/


http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2426710,00.asp?kc=PCRSS03069TX1K0001121


PC Mag's bit is really just an assembled bunch of quotes from elsewhere. Kinda lazy.

One thing that I don't understand is why almost each and every outlet that weighs in on the issue feels almost obligated to present an opinion on whether resolution/effects/frame rate differences will matter in the long run?

It's like it is assumed that all articles have to answer that question, which most people are not asking right now.

Just report on the current differences, detail them, research about the why and how, present facts and the current situation, and let the reader decide. And then we'll also see how much consumers did care, no need for assumptions.

Unless it's a very specific opinion piece titled something like "A prediction for 5 years down the road", who cares that these journalists feel that suddenly, unlike the case for each past generation of gaming, the capabilities of the new consoles' hardware don't really matter to the "average" (whatever this means) gamer?

 

[Can Crusher]

Oh, I'm with you there, Mr. call_kotaku. A reporter's job is to tell the truth, not to strive for some unattainable goal of objectivity.

Objectivity is just a word. The idea behind it is for journalists to not report based on feelings, but based on something that is much closer to fact. Fact is in short the same thing as the truth when it comes to journalism. But it is a fact that the truth, the fact, and that which is objective is limited by perspective.

Obviously this brings us to the difference between news and opinion pieces. As a reader I don't expect a journalist to report me news with his opinion mixed in, I don't expect to be given wrong information about widely available information (Sessler and console prices), I don't expect personal assumptions and certainly I don't expect any type of argument to be made. If I read a feature article where the journalist will have investigated the subject at hand, I expect minimal personal arguments, and rather I want an interpretation of the actual information at hand, in short like you said I want as close of an interpretation of the truth as possible. In that case I expect to be offered more than a singular perspective. In opinion articles, which should be stated as such, I expect just that. An opinion from somebody who is I assume, versed in the subject that is being written about. Even in an opinion article I don't expect misinformation, just a different perspective.

It's not hard to do it, it's only hard when the writer has either something to lose or something to gain.

 

[twobear]

Compared to some of the others on kotaku I agree and I don't blame at all for coming and defending his site, especially cinemablends use of their article. I give credit to him for coming and apologizing about that whole 4chan fiasco as well.

I don't think MS is handing briefcases of cash to game media or anything silly like that but kotaku aside surely he can admit there has been a bias tilted towards the Xbox One considering the facts we all know as of now?

I actually thought that Kotaku, at least, were noticeably down on the Xbone immediately after announcement.

 

[Unknown One]

Yeah, but that's comparing high end to high end. With consoles it's all low end. It's just about deciding which one is uglier.

That's a weakass excuse. If I were to buy a graphic card I would easily shrug off the 7770 over the 7850. The differences is huge.

 

[Klocker]

Media is given too much credit for shaping the argument

Thee are plenty of facts out there about each machine and to act like in 2-3 weeks we are all obligated to spend money on one over the other and that previews by press are our only source of decision making is ridiculous.

We will have plenty of opportunities to decide with our own eyes and ears. We will have our own hands on in stores, at friends houses, through reports from other users all over the world as to whether or not people feel one or the other is a valuable purchase

The gaming "press" is just part of the industry. To expect some Edward R Morrow type of journalism from them over a game machine is laughable.

 

[Curufinwe]

That's a pretty damn good post, can't believe I actually read all of it.

EDIT: PLEASE DON'T QUOTE THE ENTIRE FUCKING THING

I will quote it in the Weekend Confirmed thread. It deserves a wider audience.

 

[jschreier]

Really great post, Josh.

Jason, I really don't believe you have any reason to feel upset by this thread. Kotaku is currently doing well because you guys don't seem to be on the Bone damage limitation train like IGN, Polygon, Eurogamer/DF and others.

Like so many have said before, objectivity means reporting the facts objectively, not playing down advantages of one of the consoles to make it look more even.

The facts are that the PS4 has 50% more CUs, has more compute power, is smaller and cheaper. Those points are all facts and I have seen a number of articles on Kotaku saying exactly this, which is why your readership is rising. Saying it like it is and not BSing your readership into some phoney-war like DF or IGN talking about "balance" has worked in your favour. I hope that it continues this way.

Two things are really bugging me about this thread (and they're both trends I see often on NeoGAF): 1) some people here call for better journalism yet don't recognize the journalistic failings in this nonsensical Cinema Blend article and others like it; 2) way too many people here act like the "games press" is some sort of singular entity instead of recognizing that we're all different people with our own beliefs, biases, and talents. Hopefully I can convince at least a few observers to cut it out.

 

[plagiarize]

Interestingly enough, that's exactly my setup. Thanks for the tip.

Thanks for all the kind words about my post, everyone. I still feel pretty bad that I was so boneheaded about this before. I appreciate the chance to make it right. I just wish I hadn't ignored this issue so long, because it would make a great article and now I wonder whether it's too late.

Just wanted to give you props. It never even occurred to me to look at average American screen sizes and viewing distances.

 

[lazydom]

I don't think people are praising the cinema blend article itself, merely the fact that is raising the issue of the possible power gap between the consoles, an issue ignored in many major outlets. If more people were covering this angle people wouldn't have to write OT's about click bait opinion articles

 

[IvorB]

Interestingly enough, that's exactly my setup. Thanks for the tip.

Thanks for all the kind words about my post, everyone. I still feel pretty bad that I was so boneheaded about this before. I appreciate the chance to make it right. I just wish I hadn't ignored this issue so long, because it would make a great article and now I wonder whether it's too late.

Why would it be too late? Apologising about this on a 'GAF thread is one thing but it sounds like you misinformed your readership on this issue. Wouldn't making this right actually involve communicating that to them rather than unburdening your soul on some forum thread? Again, forgive me if I am missing the context on this.

 

[shandy706]

I have zero problem with the power difference between the Xbox One and the PS4.

Not even a tiny care.

If power were all that mattered I wouldn't buy either console. My gaming Rig is more than double the "powaaaar" of the PS4. Does that stop me from considering it or liking things that are coming to it. NO

Does the X1 having even lesser hardware stop me from considering it or liking what's coming to it. NO

I absolutely can not stand the people that think every article should attack one system or another over their capabilities. Sure a mention of resolution or framerate is fine, but there seem to be those that want something torn down and bashed/destroyed over the difference. So tired of those people.

 

[IvorB]

Two things are really bugging me about this thread (and they're both trends I see often on NeoGAF): 1) some people here call for better journalism yet don't recognize the journalistic failings in this nonsensical Cinema Blend article and others like it; 2) way too many people here act like the "games press" is some sort of singular entity instead of recognizing that we're all different people with our own beliefs, biases, and talents. Hopefully I can convince at least a few observers to cut it out.

If you want to educate people about the journalistic failings of the Cinemablend article it might be a good idea to describe them rather than present it as a given. I'm not sure people are praising it as some kind of paragon of journalistic integrity but rather agreeing with the sentiment.

 

[Oersted]

Two things are really bugging me about this thread (and they're both trends I see often on NeoGAF): 1) some people here call for better journalism yet don't recognize the journalistic failings in this nonsensical Cinema Blend article and others like it; 2) way too many people here act like the "games press" is some sort of singular entity instead of recognizing that we're all different people with our own beliefs, biases, and talents. Hopefully I can convince at least a few observers to cut it out.

Yep.

 

[DragonSworne]

If you want to educate people about the journalistic failings of the Cinemablend article it might be a good idea to describe them rather than present it as a given. I'm not sure people are praising it as some kind of paragon of journalistic integrity but rather agreeing with the sentiment.

You just replied to an Ad hominem and a strawman attack

 

[plagiarize]

Two things are really bugging me about this thread (and they're both trends I see often on NeoGAF): 1) some people here call for better journalism yet don't recognize the journalistic failings in this nonsensical Cinema Blend article and others like it; 2) way too many people here act like the "games press" is some sort of singular entity instead of recognizing that we're all different people with our own beliefs, biases, and talents. Hopefully I can convince at least a few observers to cut it out.

As I've said before, other than your articles on this all being a bit 'matter of fact' on what your sources are saying, without (publically) addressing some of the obvious questions those statements bring up (and I know you may have tried to get your sources to say more), your reporting on this has been solid.

I'd try not to take it so personally.

What I credit cinemablend with is looking into this series of editorials all coming out arguing that 720p and 1080p don't matter, or are only marginally different. Their actual article? Not so good. I just think it's a shame that it wasn't someone in your field that started asking these questions... or at least, starting trying to answer the questions of gamers as to why no one seemed to be providing consumer advice on this, and as to why almost all of the major sites seemed to be downplaying this in their reporting.

I think of Kotaku (and Joystiq) differently to how I think of IGN, Eurogamer, Gametrailers Edge Online, Gamespot, etc. You're one of the leading gaming blogs, and you're on my daily list of sites to visit (unlike some of the other sites I just listed). I just separate blogs from the other sites for some reason. Obviously the cinemablend article called out Stephen's article, which was free from editorializing and mostly just reporting known facts and quotes from sources to try to shed more light on what this might mean going forwards.

When I say I think there is a problem with the game press, I'm personally talking about the way it works, rather than saying every reviewer falls into this or that trap, or that all of you are in the pockets of major companies. As a machine that is paid by the same people that it is meant to report on... it creates problems. There's no personal judgment in that statement.

Psychologically we know that people tend to look more favorably on companies that send them gifts and fly them out on nice trips to cover games. I mean, these companies don't shell out for those sorts of things for no good reason. It's similar to what happens in politics between politicians and businesses looking to influence them.

It's not illegal. It doesn't brain wash you... but it does have an influence... and when you see so many sites coming out and taking a stance that seems to be more about helping support a business than offering consumer advice (which again can totally be done in a way that isn't sticking forks into Microsoft or lapping up Sony's bodily secretions)... it begs the question as to why that's happening. It could have been avoided with a different kind of reporting. more people running articles like Kotaku's instead of these insulting editorials, and I don't think we have this thread.

the quality of discussion here has been high. maybe you feel the original cinemablend article doesn't deserve that. maybe it doesn't. but they're the ones who beat everyone else to the punch in asking these kind of questions.

 

[Feorax]

Looks like infinity ward gave us some answers, and it seems it's nothing to do with the dev tools arriving late;

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=708968

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

One thing that I don't understand is why almost each and every outlet that weighs in on the issue feels almost obligated to present an opinion on whether resolution/effects/frame rate differences will matter in the long run?

It's like it is assumed that all articles have to answer that question, which most people are not asking right now.

Just report on the current differences, detail them, research about the why and how, present facts and the current situation, and let the reader decide. And then we'll also see how much consumers did care, no need for assumptions.

Unless it's a very specific opinion piece titled something like "A prediction for 5 years down the road", who cares that these journalists feel that suddenly, unlike the case for each past generation of gaming, the capabilities of the new consoles' hardware don't really matter to the "average" (whatever this means) gamer?

I think it all boils down to us. We complain about reviewers all the time and this is their way of marginalizing us.

 

[Skeff]

Yeah, but that's comparing high end to high end. With consoles it's all low end. It's just about deciding which one is uglier.

If you consider 7770 and 7850 high end and don't consider the cosoles High end, then I've got some news for you, the consoles are based on those cards and will outperform them thanks to fixed hardware and a lower level API. Good luck with that though, I picked those 2 cards for a reason.

 

[jschreier]

If you want to educate people about the journalistic failings of the Cinemablend article it might be a good idea to describe them rather than present it as a given. I'm not sure people are praising it as some kind of paragon of journalistic integrity but rather agreeing with the sentiment.

I don't really have time to break the whole thing down, but for one, the fact that they didn't reach out to any of the parties involved is a major flaw. As a general rule, when writing about a person or company, it is a journalist's responsibility to give that person or company an opportunity to comment. Here, we have an article directly attacking multiple people and companies that does no such thing.

There's also the puerile language ("What follows is an inexplicably odd (or perhaps normal, if you're used to the Doritocracy)"), the fact that he takes quotes from just about every article (including Kotaku's) out of context, and perhaps worst of all, the unfounded accusations:

Gaming sites have been cropping up apologists articles left and right to dissuade on-the-fence gamers from canceling their Xbox One pre-orders (an attempt to appease the ad overlords, perhaps?)

If a writer working for me wrote a line like the bolded they would no longer be working for me. To make an accusation like that with no evidence or sourcing is just straight-up unacceptable.

 

[The Technomancer]

First of all, this is going to be long. It's also probably going to say a lot of things you already know. GAF is generally full of tech-savvy folks, and this thread has more of that than usual. So I know you already know about resolution and pixels and frame rates. Please don't take it as patronizing when I spell it all out. I'm just trying to "show my work", as it were.

Holy shit

 

[Hanmik]

I don't really have time to break the whole thing down, but for one, the fact that they didn't reach out to any of the parties involved is a major flaw. As a general rule, when writing about a person or company, it is a journalist's responsibility to give that person or company an opportunity to comment. Here, we have an article directly attacking multiple people and companies that does no such thing.

There's also the puerile language ("What follows is an inexplicably odd (or perhaps normal, if you're used to the Doritocracy)"), the fact that he takes quotes from just about every article (including Kotaku's) out of context, and perhaps worst of all, the unfounded accusations:



If a writer working for me wrote a line like the bolded they would no longer be working for me. To make an accusation like that with no evidence or sourcing is just straight-up unacceptable.

just a quick question.. did you ever try to contact Mark Rubin ?

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Two things are really bugging me about this thread (and they're both trends I see often on NeoGAF): 1) some people here call for better journalism yet don't recognize the journalistic failings in this nonsensical Cinema Blend article and others like it; 2) way too many people here act like the "games press" is some sort of singular entity instead of recognizing that we're all different people with our own beliefs, biases, and talents. Hopefully I can convince at least a few observers to cut it out.

Well on point one, I think there has been a build up of frustration that major sites have taken this "no real difference" line so the first article to call it out was obviously going to get some praise. If you had done it on Kotaku then your article would be in the OP and everyone would laud Kotaku as the saviour of gaming (well maybe not that far!).

Agreed on point two, I specifically look out for your articles and Stephen's on Kotaku, they are always a cut above the rest (though that's not to say they aren't decent, your's and Totilo's are just better IMO).

Take a look above at the comments about Sessler's FUD video about the PS4 and you can see why people become frustrated that this kind of BS is allowed to get major coverage with a free pass and no other journalists call him out on it.

Again, I go back to the point I made earlier. I believe that the traffic on Kotaku is going up because of the no BS line the editors have taken. People can go to your site and read articles that aren't dripping with editorialised crap that plays down the Bone failures in the graphics department while also spreading FUD about the PS4. The article quality at Kotaku is higher than at any time I can remember that this has coincided with a rise in traffic shows vindicates those earlier decisions.

 

[MaximusPayne]

I've read this guy's articles on the site. He doesn't seem to have an open mind at all.

 

[Feorax]

I'm interested to see what the stance is with some publications now that IW as said what they have. There is no grey area now, it's all there in black and white as to why the XBO can't reach the levels the PS4 can.

I suppose the only debate left is whether the trade off or the other features of the XBO is worth it?

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I'm interested to see what the stance is with some publications now that IW as said what they have. There is no grey area now, it's all there in black and white as to why the XBO can't reach the levels the PS4 can.

I suppose the only debate left is whether the trade off or the other features of the XBO is worth it?

"It's just one developer"

"Infinity Ward LOLOLOL"

"Wait for the real Infinity Ward, have you seen TitanFall"

Those are responses I can come up with off the top of my head. I'm sure there will be more though.

 

[IvorB]

I don't really have time to break the whole thing down, but for one, the fact that they didn't reach out to any of the parties involved is a major flaw. As a general rule, when writing about a person or company, it is a journalist's responsibility to give that person or company an opportunity to comment. Here, we have an article directly attacking multiple people and companies that does no such thing.

There's also the puerile language ("What follows is an inexplicably odd (or perhaps normal, if you're used to the Doritocracy)"), the fact that he takes quotes from just about every article (including Kotaku's) out of context, and perhaps worst of all, the unfounded accusations:



If a writer working for me wrote a line like the bolded they would no longer be working for me. To make an accusation like that with no evidence or sourcing is just straight-up unacceptable.

Well fair enough: it's not great writing. But, as I said, it's the sentiment that is resonating with people. Also his lack of writing ability doesn't really have anything to do with people's desire for a more responsible and investigative gaming press. So people can appreciate the sentiment of his poorly written piece and critise the gaming press at the same time.

 

[Abounder]

The press is largely hated in just about every industry (TMZ, sports, etc) but the gaming press has to deal with more active e-fans than most other industries, and it seems like the gaming press tends to rely on clickbait more than they do content when compared to other press industries

 

[NathanMcMahon]

Well fair enough: it's not great writing. But, as I said, it's the sentiment that is resonating with people. Also his lack of writing ability doesn't really have anything to do with people's desire for a more responsible and investigative gaming press. So people can appreciate the sentiment of his poorly written piece and critise the gaming press at the same time.

it's also shit "journalism" and does more harm than good. Yet apparently the loudest mewling is for something better. If this is what is considered better then so many are far too lost to try and have a reasonable and rational discussion with.

Two things are really bugging me about this thread (and they're both trends I see often on NeoGAF): 1) some people here call for better journalism yet don't recognize the journalistic failings in this nonsensical Cinema Blend article and others like it; 2) way too many people here act like the "games press" is some sort of singular entity instead of recognizing that we're all different people with our own beliefs, biases, and talents. Hopefully I can convince at least a few observers to cut it out.

Number One is the biggest issue going. The mass that cry about the state of game journalism have no clue about the different journalism distinctions and they seem to be defensive of their ignorance which I guess is normal when you are confronted with facts.

 

[hawk2025]

I don't really have time to break the whole thing down, but for one, the fact that they didn't reach out to any of the parties involved is a major flaw. As a general rule, when writing about a person or company, it is a journalist's responsibility to give that person or company an opportunity to comment. Here, we have an article directly attacking multiple people and companies that does no such thing.

There's also the puerile language ("What follows is an inexplicably odd (or perhaps normal, if you're used to the Doritocracy)"), the fact that he takes quotes from just about every article (including Kotaku's) out of context, and perhaps worst of all, the unfounded accusations:



If a writer working for me wrote a line like the bolded they would no longer be working for me. To make an accusation like that with no evidence or sourcing is just straight-up unacceptable.

Sorry if you've already addressed this -- but would you fire Arthur Gies for breaking an NDA as he did as well?

 

[poisonelf]

Number One is the biggest issue going. The mass that cry about the state of game journalism have no clue about the different journalism distinctions and they seem to be defensive of their ignorance which I guess is normal when you are confronted with facts.

It's ironic that what you just said suits so perfectly the way some journalists seem to act on twitter when confronted with the facts they keep downplaying. At first I thought that's what you were saying.

So which distinctions are you referring to? Opinion pieces vs. facts reporting? Most people do make that distinction here, and that's exactly the issue. That facts are almost always followed by opinions, which opinions sound like Microsoft PR in some cases, especially during the DRM defending phase, and now in regards to the gap in power which suddenly, for the first time ever, became 'unimportant' for new gaming machines...

 

[Feorax]

The last half hour has provided the perfect example of why people are so fucking annoyed.

Original Eurogamer article:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-04-xbox-one-resolutiongate-call-of-duty-ghosts-dev-infinity-ward-responds

Creating a next-gen launch title sounds like a nightmare. Can you explain exactly the challenges you faced?

Mark Rubin: It is for our engineers, especially. Fortunately, both Xbox One and PS4 are very much like PC, more so than the last generation. That helped enormously. If the systems had their very peculiar architecture, like they did in current gen, this would have been a different conversation. But because of that the development this time around it was significantly easier. I have experienced the current-gen launch. I was at Infinity Ward for COD 2. When we launched it was just PC and Xbox 360, but that was our first console, period. There was a lot to learn leading up, but that was just one console, when all it was was PC and that new console. And that was an interesting challenge.

So to do PC, current-gen two SKUs and next-gen two SKUs, was a massive challenge. Working with the theoretical hardware would have been a disaster if... honestly, the hardest thing to deal with is not the architecture. It's the OS (operating system) of the systems. That's the thing that comes on the latest. The Xbox One's OS on their box versus the Sony OS, becomes the hardest. All the SDKs and stuff you have to work with - that's the stuff that changes, not the hardware itself.

What about the operating systems, exactly, is the problem?

Mark Rubin: There's stuff in the console's OS that interacts with the game. So, for instance, voice chat is often supported by the hardware manufacturer rather than the software, and you're just using their channel. When that stuff is changing - because they're developing it on their side - and the resources they're using are changing - your, from a game design standpoint, challenge is with trying to make enough room for those resources to be used but at the same time use as much resources as possible.

One of the greatest challenges the engineers have to deal with is memory management, or thread management. There are X number of threads in your CPUs. Where in those threads is the stuff that's Microsoft or Sony? Where does it fall? How does it work? We don't have the SDKs for those features yet, and then they come in and you go, okay, well it needs 3MB of RAM - oh, crap, we only allocated two! You can't just take a MB from anywhere. It's not like there's just tonnes of it just laying there. You have to pull it from something else. And now you have to balance that somewhere.

It becomes a massive change internally for our entire engine, if they add a few MB to the amount of resources they need, or if they require all their processes to be on one thread. If it's not multi-threaded then we have to put it on one thread. Now we have to find space on one thread, where that can live, that it's not creating a traffic jam on that thread. Sometimes we have to be like, okay, we have to move all this stuff over to a different thread and then put that in to that thread, just to manage traffic.

That's what engineers are often doing: managing the traffic of CPU threads and memory and where that's going, allocating memory, what kind of memory is it? Is it dynamic? Sometimes what has to happen is we have to allocate the 3MB straight off the bat and just say, these 3MB, specifically, these actual memory addresses, have to be used for this. They can't be used anywhere else. Whereas dynamic, it's like, okay, I need 3MB but it doesn't matter where those 3MB come from.

So all that stuff can change on the fly. And you're trying to develop your system to match with that, and it's two systems, now, not just one: Sony and Xbox. That creates a massive engineering nightmare.

Within half an hour, IGN post their take on it:

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/11/04/why-is-call-of-duty-ghosts-is-720p-on-xbox-one-and-1080p-on-playstation

The reason Rubin is stating is unfamiliar architecture and the optimisation process to maintain that 60 frames per second experience.

I mean, seriously, what the fuck?

 

[Figboy79]

"Doritocracy" is a delightful word

I'd much rather live in one of those than a... wait for it...



...a Diptatorship!

Though I guess those would probably be pretty much the same thing, wouldn't they?

"Diptatorship" simultaneously made me chuckle out loud at work, and want to punch you for how awful of a pun that was.

But I'm a sucker for puns.

 

[Marc]

That wouldnt even be allowed where I work, you cant accept ANY personal gifts from clients.

This is how it is with many companies I work with too, employees cant accept any incentives personally, everything must go through the company.

This is bribery.

This is why a company like Shell could pay for an ad in a paper, but if they pay the gas bill of one of the reporters directly it would be kind of wonky no?

Yeah, it is also illegal in my line of work. Not only would I get fired but I could face some serious prison time and a fine. Doesn't stop people doing it, but there are consequences if you choose to do it.

In gaming its almost worn on T-Shirts and displayed like a badge of honour, gaming 'journalism' is a sham. I do wonder if as discussed its a power thing more than most. An example in the movie world is Ebert who became his own review entity to influence movies so he can get away with whatever he wanted. I don't think gaming has that. No big whale for the smaller remora fish to cling onto.

 

[Feorax]

An example in the movie world is Ebert who became his own review entity to influence movies so he can get away with whatever he wanted. I don't think gaming has that. No big whale for the smaller remora fish to cling onto.

It's pretty sad considering that there are so many large media sites, yet none of them want to take on this responsibility.