There's a lot of evidence in the OP that the game has been re-structured mainly (if not solely) with these microtransactions in mind. That doesn't mean it forces you to buy them, that's not the point. Everyone who buys this game, whether they invest real money in tokens many times, only once, or never, gets this same structure that will more or less inconspicuously try to grind up your resistance to paying with money instead of time, that is to make playing the game seem less desirable, even if the core mechanics are really, really good. This is not optional.
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Forza 5: The monetization is even worse than you think.
- Thread starter NullPointer
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You know what, I honestly had similar thoughts in the last few days.
I've been an active gamer for almost 20 years and I always knew I was wasting my time playing videogames but at least it was fun. It was escapism that let me forget the real world for a while.These days, the industry is doing everything it can to sour this experience. I increasingly feel I'm getting screwed in many ways by the industry and it severely impacts my enjoyment with this hobby in general. Nowadays practically all AAA games come with exclusive pre-order bullshit, exclusive content for more-expensive editions, day one DLC etc. and I was already getting sick of it all. All that stuff already made me skip certain games (Forza 4, for example, it was getting too ridiculous). And now they're infesting gaming with this pay2pay2play cancer.
It's just not fun anymore. My hobby has become a struggle against corporate interests and I'm tired. Witnessing how my favorite games are getting impacted as they become more popular is also just sad. Even Dark Souls 2 has now retailer-exlusive pre-order content. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Souls game will try to sell me Soul-packs or pieces of equipment.
Maybe now is the time for me to step away from gaming as a whole and invest more time into my other hobbies like playing the guitar. It's more useful and rewarding anyway, and it's not nearly as expensive.
I originally had plans to eventually buy both next-gen consoles. PS4 in 2014 and an Xbone when Forza Horizon 2 comes out. The Xbone, however, is completely taboo for me now and I will never touch another Forza game. And I will also wait with buying a PS4 and observe from the sidelines whether the p2p2p shit catches on there as well.
What I will do is buy a WiiU and the PC version of Rocksmith. Maybe I will stick with these two platforms (PC for the occasional indie game) for the years ahead and reduce the time I spend playing videogames in general. I'm disgusted by the direction my hobby is heading. Bravo, games industry!
transformer
Member
I don't think microtransactions are the problem per say. While I'm no fan of them, it is completely optional. I heard many complaints about how much $$ a car costs. This is only if you choose to use real money instead of playing the game and purchasing the car with in game currency. You can still play the full game without spending any more cash. However, what can be a problem is grinding for hours and hours to obtain content as some have mentioned here. I'm not sure how much of a grind this will be at the moment.
I've completed three of the mini-careers in the game and played a few online races/rivals events. I have 5-6 cars and about $500k in credits. Additionally, I received $15k in credits yesterday for my drivatar competing in races. At this pace, It would take me a few weeks to save up and get the $6million F1 car.
I've completed three of the mini-careers in the game and played a few online races/rivals events. I have 5-6 cars and about $500k in credits. Additionally, I received $15k in credits yesterday for my drivatar competing in races. At this pace, It would take me a few weeks to save up and get the $6million F1 car.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
If I think it's worth it, I'm going to buy it.Good call, I heard there's some amazing DLC for that!
I'm not against DLC per se; just against the exploitation of the concept.
Most of the DLC I bought last generation was expansion pack-style; RDR Undead Nightmare, for example. The only microtransaction DLC I bought were songs for Rock Band. I was okay with those because I didn't get the sense that I'm getting fucked over. I could use the DLC in all the Rock Band sequels, I could import songs from past Rock Band games etc. It's a far cry from what Turn10 is doing. They're trying to sell us the same shit they sold us in the previous games already and it's getting worse with each game.
Punkster_NY
Member
I don't think they would risk their reputation and history just so they can nickle and dime their customers I think Polyphony has more sense and class than that.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Wow, the pricing is shit.
I have nothing against DLC or F2P, I play and buy items from Dota 2 almost monthly but this? This is just wrong. It's pretty much taking advantage of your fanbase.
I have nothing against DLC or F2P, I play and buy items from Dota 2 almost monthly but this? This is just wrong. It's pretty much taking advantage of your fanbase.
let us all hope so.
JimiNutz
Banned
This is a fair point.
I haven't really looked into the cost of cars that much.
I must admit I'm only a few hours in and really enjoying the game. At the moment I'll happily race for 50 hours to get the cars I want (I don't intend to own them all). I'm happy to do that because the gameplay is so good.
I def won't be paying a penny to buy any tokens, but I suppose I understand why some are upset. It just doesn't really seem to bother me.
If the gameplay was sub par then it'd be a different story.
Fornaximus
Member
The more this series regresses into scammy DLC shenanigans, the more free passes the gaming media give it in reviews. This kind of stuff should be getting paragraphs of mention from anyone claiming to be a journalist when they review the game.
Sorry, but jamming microtransactions in the game (as in pay $$ for this car) already means they are ok with it.
I'm debating whether to keep my shopto ps4 order or not. I might just put it on ebay and wait a year or two to see how this all plays out because I don't want any part of it.
MADGAME
Member
What would be a better way to keep some cars a bit more rare than putting them behind a grindwall? Skill based? In other words the car isn't unlocked unless you can finish XX Track in XX amount of time or finish first in an insanely difficult race? Maybe even less people would be able to obtain the cars if that were the case.
Old school gamer here, and I remember not being able to unlock extras or even finish some old games because I didn't have enough skill. It was frustrating, but felt obtainable (except YOU, Ninja Gaiden NES).
I'm not defending this business model because it does seem to be designed to fleece the consumer. Take away the option of purchasing the cars, and now you have a system that appears to give the game a long life, and has vehicles everyone can obtain.
Old school gamer here, and I remember not being able to unlock extras or even finish some old games because I didn't have enough skill. It was frustrating, but felt obtainable (except YOU, Ninja Gaiden NES).
I'm not defending this business model because it does seem to be designed to fleece the consumer. Take away the option of purchasing the cars, and now you have a system that appears to give the game a long life, and has vehicles everyone can obtain.
their salaries are all paid by the dollars from game company advertising. And the company with the biggest advertising budget and largest PR staff is Microsoft.
because there is no other way to get the cars to players other than microtransactions so the devs are actually doing us a favor right? Wouldnt it have been great if you could just have bought a victory in those NES games?
MADGAME
Member
Not sure you accurately interpreted my post. I am not a fan of the Microtransaction model, an even offered an alternate solution. Geez.
fastford58
Member
No game that monetizes this badly should be supported. Not an MS game, not a Sony game, pc, nintendo...whatever.
It's just so fucking gross.
It's just so fucking gross.
sorry, reading fail. derp.
But it should be supported if it monetizes? lol, gamers are like sheeps
MADGAME
Member
No worries friend
Vicetrailia
Member
Monetization isn't the end of the world and can be dealt with, but the direction displayed here is simply unfair.
Delusibeta
Banned
Apparently, Turn10 has done a number on the community marketplace as well. The marketplace now has token price for everything, so something like a tune will cost 30k in credits or a bunch of tokens, of which Turn10 will pocket practically everything and leave the seller with a nominal amount of credits.
They probably come back with a slip of paper asking you to buy some.
If it's anything like prior Forza's it would depend on the race. Early in the game, you won't earn as many credits because you haven't leveled your way into the higher paying races yet. It also depends on how many assists used IIRC.
This brings up all types of ideas:
You can prestige for $20 complete with special insignia.
If you die 10 times in a match pay $2 for low level killstreaks, $6 for mid level killstreaks, and $10 for the best killstreaks.
We've yet to see gun DLC... until now. Buy the exclusive Glock 22 for special use in single player for $3.
We're screwed but I refuse to lay blame on mobile games. I've yet to spend $60 on mobile games. Most of the games I played were a few dollars or free.
This is all greed on the corporations part. I miss buying a game with all the content on the disc. Imagine final fantasy 7 with this model.
This entire case is disgusting. Multiple day one DLC packs should COME WITH THE GAME. I need to hear a rant on this subject from someone with a cult following. I hope the press gets off their lazy asses and picks up on the consumer outrage at this free to play game at full retail cost. Sony needs to take notes on this.
Wait what? So Turn10 is basically selling stuff from community creators optionally for real money and the creators don't ever see a single dime?
This is getting worse and worse. This is not just scummy anymore, this is what assholes would do.
I don't agree with the practice (and we can talk about it for another 20 pages) but I'd love to hear thoughts on how companies can make the profit they think they need to for us to play the games we want. Obviously they could pack more content to make it more worthwhile but that also takes more time and resources. Is 60 dollars the right price for a AAA game? I can't imagine spending more than 60 but I still don't see how there are tiers of game pricing used more often. Should forza be completely free 2 play but even more of a grind?
Funny thing: the German version of Eurogamer said that the micro-transactions are completely optional and the car progression/cost the same as in former entries of the series. The UK version of Eurogamer says that the progressions system has become more cumbersome.
I don't have a problem with the concept of micro-transactions if they are indeed optional, but can you really design a game and not be influenced by the potential profit you might get by making things a "litte bit" less fun?
I don't have a problem with the concept of micro-transactions if they are indeed optional, but can you really design a game and not be influenced by the potential profit you might get by making things a "litte bit" less fun?
1) smaller games/less content
2) increase retail price
3) expansion packs (far cry 3/blood dragon type deal)
Deal with it...
If you support microtransactions in general, then that's your only solution.
Enjoyment is very estatic, and could turned anyone blind to a game's critical flaw. This is why I see most game review as problematic: the reviewer don't approach it with scepticism, instead they embrace hype and let it cloud their judgement.
Also grinding tolerancy between people is vastly different. There are those who played Disgaea and unlocked nearly everything. Then there are persons deemed FEA as too grindy.
The scope and ambition of AAA games soon will turned itself not become a movie, but rather as service. We have seen such vision, game as service, adopted by "AAA Class" developer and publisher, Square Enix. And we know how Bravely Default For The Sequel have microtransaction in it.
If only there was some sort of... forum, if you will. Where people could share their opinions with other like minded individuals, and even have the chance for industry insiders to read their opinion and take back to their respective teams.
That's true. While this thread is about Forza, I also didn't enjoy grinding mechanics in GT5. I just don't get why I have to spend idiotic amounts of time in the game just to try out one car that I like. I understand that many people like to invest a lot of time into such games, improve their driving and enjoy the driving itself. I do as well, but I have limits as to how much time I can spend while keeping the game enjoyable, and those racing games are way beyond that.
I remember driving hours round Indianapolis in GT5 because it was the most efficient way to grind. I could have played the game in a more fun way, but then that would have taken much more time, and I was curious for a particular car that I wanted to get.
These kinds of mechanics just suck. It seems like some sort of mockery that people like me get micro-transactions as the lone alternative, if we want to drive a particular car for a few laps round a track.
transformer
Member
Where was this stated? I believe this to be categorically false. While the marketplace isn't up last time I checked, Turn 10 has stated that all paints/vinyls/tunes will be FREE to download. No tokens, no in game credits. Additionally, the creators will get paid in game credits from Turn 10 based on the number of downloads.
Punkster_NY
Member
GT6 has micro transactions?
Do you have a link that shows what their pricing schemes are?I am pretty sure the KZ:SF free maps initiative wouldn't have been considered if KZ was selling the same numbers as COD/Halo/BF. This move was to build a following. If they announced free maps for the life of the franchise, that's something else.
source?
I.... Ok, well if you consider.... you have to look at it like thi.....
Nope. Damn it. I got nothing.
GT6 has micro transactions?
There are no pricing schemes yet, but however they detailed it a bit:
http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2013/11/18/gran-turismo-6-digital-pre-order-now-available-in-game-credits-detailed/
This tired old argument again?
Ever heard of the slippery slope? The boiling frog? Beware of minor change, as it leads to major consequences later on. Horse armor seems awfully innocent in comparison to this, doesn't it?
Oh yikes. With some of those prices, they could send you a 1:24 die cast model of the virtual car you bought and still probably make profit.
Actually, I'm curious how people would feel if they sold some of the high-end cars Skylanders style: redeemable car codes attached to scale model cars you can buy at a store.
Actually, I'm curious how people would feel if they sold some of the high-end cars Skylanders style: redeemable car codes attached to scale model cars you can buy at a store.
At first, they asked us if we wanted to equip our horse with horse armor, and we said nothing.
Then they came for our already purchased DLC cars. And no one was left to stop them.
transformer
Member
This link compiles information on Forza 5 from various sources (which are all listed):
http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/6121253.aspx
Scroll down to confirmed game features and you will see this:
"The auction house and storefront are no more, however designs will be available to download for free, and the creator will be paid each time the car is used with the livery on it, and there will also be a way to transfer funds between players."
Which was taken from an interview with Dan Greenwalt.
I was only referencing the post that I quoted. We need clarification on this obviously.
There are no pricing schemes yet, but however they detailed it a bit:
Just from a pure in-game credit standpoint, those cars look a lot cheaper than they are in GT5. I don't think I could touch a used race car of any type for under a million cr. If the race winnings pay out anywhere near where they did in GT5 this could be a big improvement.
Big box price on the game itself + F2P price gouging! It's the best of both worlds!
...for MS.
What a tragedy. Many media outlets need to pick up on this non-sense. Oh? They won't? Wonder why..
If the game was F2P, then whatever, I guess. But gaw-dayum at these prices with the price of the box.
...for MS.
What a tragedy. Many media outlets need to pick up on this non-sense. Oh? They won't? Wonder why..
If the game was F2P, then whatever, I guess. But gaw-dayum at these prices with the price of the box.
Partial Gamification
Banned
This was almost three days ago, have the prices changed? Apologies if this is covered but it seems I'm not the only one unsure of the situation:
Any information would be appreciated: fixed/no change.
4 days ago:
so no tunes?
They are pretty similiar.
Clockwork5
Member
If i ever got to a point where i would rather pay money than play a videogame... i think ill stop gaming. To each their own though. On a side note, i took a look at the Forza forums and the vast majority have little to no issue with the ability to purchase tokens. Some people are showing pics of their fully tweaked supercars and saving up for the next. They claim no money spent and about 20 hours gameplay. That is not bad...
I wonder how many people who are sincerely upset about this are achievement/trophy/gamerscore slaves.
I wonder how many people who are sincerely upset about this are achievement/trophy/gamerscore slaves.
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