theignoramus
Member
I really feel awful about this shit, not least because other franchises might follow suit.
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Forza 5: The monetization is even worse than you think.
- Thread starter NullPointer
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HORRORSHØW
Member
First time seeing this. That shit is outrageous.
From the OP
From the OP
Fucking hell. Lol.
Corronchilejano
Member
The fact you can buy tokens isn't really a problem, you just ignore it, and that's it.
But the game itself having less features than its predecessor? And some of those features being ones where entire communities were around for?
Man, what have you people done...
But the game itself having less features than its predecessor? And some of those features being ones where entire communities were around for?
Man, what have you people done...
Because the in credit requirement is also inflated. The tokens were not inflated to discourage people from buying them. They were inflated along with the credits to
A) Increase the time and depth of the grind required to get them (credits) in order to
B) Increase the conversion rate and the amount paid out when someone folded and bought the tokens.
End effect the game is less fun and MS makes more money. Good for them bad for us.
CecilRousso
Member
Still no. As said countless time now, they have made changed to the games to push you to buy tokens. That's a problem.
staticneuron
Member
And as stated before, there many games that already have purchasable shortcuts that don't alter the gameplay.
The issue you have is not with the tokens but with the career progression/accumulation of credits. That is something that could have been and probably would have been (given the reduced amount of vehicles) happened without the tokens even being there.
EpicConspiracy1
Banned
I'm not sure why people think the game pushes you to buy tokens. The amount of money you earn fast is crazy compared to any other forza game. Not to mention your Drivatar earns you money every time you log on from racing for you when your offline.
megamerican
Member
This is insidious as hell. Seriously glad I bailed on my pre-order when they announced the season pass stuff. Surprised, but not shocked it seems to have been even worse than that.
What a horrible black mark on a franchise that really built itself up over only one gen. Pissing away all of that good will.
What a horrible black mark on a franchise that really built itself up over only one gen. Pissing away all of that good will.
It's sad to see so many upset people because for me, FM5 is a great racing experience like no other.
However, this monetization practice has angered too many people for MS to bury their head in the sand. They need to acknowledge the situation and do something about it.
In the end, all that hard work from devs get completely shit on by publisher greed.
I hope something is said soon to alleviate people's concerns..
However, this monetization practice has angered too many people for MS to bury their head in the sand. They need to acknowledge the situation and do something about it.
In the end, all that hard work from devs get completely shit on by publisher greed.
I hope something is said soon to alleviate people's concerns..
Even faster than FM4?
hooijdonk17
Member
I said no to Forza 2 on principle, I said no to Forza 4 on principle, I'll say FUCK YOU to Forza 5 and Turn10 on principle. I hope you guys fucking crash and burn.
...what? more than $100 for a car?
From the OP
FootballFan
Member
How many tracks in total does the disc come with?
How many cars in total?
I am just curious and would love an answer in regards to content in the game.
As for the monetization, I feel bad for the Forza fans who stuck with the franchise from last gen to the new one. This is not the way to reward an enthusiastic and great fan base from what I've seen and read.
I am a Gran Turismo fan and would hate it if GT6 implements something that may impact my enjoyment of single player/multi-player by changing Credits/XP earning rates from GT5. I hope you guys can put enough pressure on Turn10/Microsoft so that they can resolve the issue through a patch or something, and hopefully they learn a lesson from this.
GT5 felt sort of grindy after level 26 or so, but I never truly felt 'cheated', because the cars I received as prizes in the single player events were good enough for me to enjoy online sessions with the GAF community and the general online community. Plus the addition of Seasonal Events(which rewarded you massive amounts of credits and XP) also probably softened the 'grind'.
P.S. The driving model is so rewarding that I just loved taking my Lambo to the Nurburgring for hours on end. DudefromSpiderMan-SoGood.gif
May R'hllor light your way Forza fans, and may the Lord of Light strike down excessive/unfair monetization in video games.
How many cars in total?
I am just curious and would love an answer in regards to content in the game.
As for the monetization, I feel bad for the Forza fans who stuck with the franchise from last gen to the new one. This is not the way to reward an enthusiastic and great fan base from what I've seen and read.
I am a Gran Turismo fan and would hate it if GT6 implements something that may impact my enjoyment of single player/multi-player by changing Credits/XP earning rates from GT5. I hope you guys can put enough pressure on Turn10/Microsoft so that they can resolve the issue through a patch or something, and hopefully they learn a lesson from this.
GT5 felt sort of grindy after level 26 or so, but I never truly felt 'cheated', because the cars I received as prizes in the single player events were good enough for me to enjoy online sessions with the GAF community and the general online community. Plus the addition of Seasonal Events(which rewarded you massive amounts of credits and XP) also probably softened the 'grind'.
P.S. The driving model is so rewarding that I just loved taking my Lambo to the Nurburgring for hours on end. DudefromSpiderMan-SoGood.gif
May R'hllor light your way Forza fans, and may the Lord of Light strike down excessive/unfair monetization in video games.
NullPointer
Member
QuicheFontaine
Member
i've sent the pm.
i wasn't motivated to write it down in the thread, since a lot of things on gaf (which are correct) are just being ignored if the OT says different. i was caught off guard by nullpointer, that he read my words. so far i had the feeling that i am part of garfs ignore list. by default.
i can post the stuff after nullpointer has read and commented it, if you want so.
my goal was just to keep the topic clean of wrong assumptions. since these start in the OP, i felt that i can say as much as i want in the thread and someone else will start from zero after reading the OP. like fighting against windmills...
When your first post in the thread is barging in telling people they're "cry babies", "losers", "whimers" and "morrons" for complaining about this, yeah you probably will get ignored.
Yes, that's always the argument whenever there's such a game.
What you need to remember is that the game was designed to encourage you to spend money. The fact that you can potentially unlock all the cars without spending any money is meaningless because the in game economy is not built around a rewarding experience when trying to get the best cars by simply playing the game. The high end cars are seemingly just not meant to be unlocked and that's why they're hidden behind the ridiculously high price. The fact that you can buy them using in-game money you've earned is seemingly just a PR-move so that they can say they don't hide content behind a paywall.
Remember when we had cheats to unlock things in case we didn't want to spend all that money unlocking things? Then we had paid cheats (EA's master plan) where we could unlock everything for a fee. Now we have paid cheats for certain parts and basically the unlock all cheat would cost as much as a real car? I'm not sure where they can go from here.
Can you be specific about which games you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the grind was not altered in any way, shape, or form during development due to the addition of microtransactions?
I mean the only way to truly know that nothing was altered on the development end would have been to personally have worked on a game that included microtransactions.
You seem to be making assumptions about what developers did or did not do to alter or not alter the game progression when they added microtransactions.
I love how they make the core game devoid of content, and then don't even give me the chance to drive multiple cars that ARE included. Imagine the timesink it would require to drive all those. The last sim racer I put quality time into was GT4, and I ended up owning all the major cars for that one in a fraction of the time.
Real world cars to include codes to unlock the car in games.
robertsan21
Member
anyone who is supporting this shit is causing developers to gimp their games just so they can make more money out of it.
DONT SUPPORT this kind of stuff people.
God damn, this will ruin gaming.
DONT SUPPORT this kind of stuff people.
God damn, this will ruin gaming.
Not used cars though. Devs gotta eat.
wapplew
Member
Greed talk aside, which scenario you think is better for gamer?
Game sell 60, no DLC micro transaction bs, sold ok, unsustainable, franchise dead.
Game sell 60, lots of DLC micro transaction bs, sold the same, more profit, franchise live.
Lets be honest, development cost keep getting higher, we want more car more tracks on every sequel. some even hate reuse asset. Without additional income from those "evil business model". Each sequel need to get higher than last game in sales number to break even.
Maybe we should think about AAA model, the way we value our purchase. Every time we say will not pay 60 for 5 hours game, we want 120 hours to justify our 60 dollar.
Publisher pack everything they can into single game, more mission, more map, more mode, to what end we say enough?
We used to pay 60 for 8 stages, now we want 100 stages, what do we want for the future?
Game sell 60, no DLC micro transaction bs, sold ok, unsustainable, franchise dead.
Game sell 60, lots of DLC micro transaction bs, sold the same, more profit, franchise live.
Lets be honest, development cost keep getting higher, we want more car more tracks on every sequel. some even hate reuse asset. Without additional income from those "evil business model". Each sequel need to get higher than last game in sales number to break even.
Maybe we should think about AAA model, the way we value our purchase. Every time we say will not pay 60 for 5 hours game, we want 120 hours to justify our 60 dollar.
Publisher pack everything they can into single game, more mission, more map, more mode, to what end we say enough?
We used to pay 60 for 8 stages, now we want 100 stages, what do we want for the future?
If those are the only two options, then choice 1. Let it die. If the game development compared to sales is not able to support a $60 game sale and car DLC alone, then it deserves to be done with.
(Those aren't the only two options btw.). Just because Microsoft decided to throw money around at shit like NFL deals and Kinect R&D, that doesn't mean Forza must now become a cash milking device.
robertsan21
Member
I choose option 1. let it die!
Option 2 is a scam, they are selling you an unfinished product for full price then expect you to start paying for everything else in the game, and this will get worse the more we accept this kind of anti consumer shit.
Before you know it, every damn game is gimped from the start just so they can make extra money on in game purchases. weapons and accessories in the game will all have to be paid extra for, how fun would it be to play an uncharted game and then have to pay for any other type of weapon than the standard hand gun Drake runs around with??
this is were its heading if we accept this shit, mark my words.
Are people not reading the thread? Amazing that this has to be explained over and over.
hooijdonk17
Member
This is wrong on so many levels, I don't even know where to begin.. Disgusted. Microsoft, congratulations. You've really managed to put me off your console after two generations of sticking with you through 40+ games in total. Well done.
Like I already said, there was no need to grind or anything like that, no negative effect on the gameplay
LollipoPReapeR
Member
Pretty sure he's agreeing with you mate
You're not missing anything. The person you were explaining it to was. And people like them keep coming in and parroting the same nonsense after it's been explained multiple times, which is what I found amazing.
I think I've had more fun with 4 than any other game in the franchise (though that's not taking into account it's been longer since I've played 3). I'd also have a think about getting PGR4. I won't shut up about it *ever*, and for good reason
Breakfast at Noon
Member
i wish it was that simple for us to tell the world :'( i tell every gamer i know, and majority do not support it, but for as long as there are a few that do it, it pays for them to do it.
hooijdonk17
Member
I'll recommend FM3 because you can get it with all DLC included for the price of next to nothing and it's pretty much the same game as FM4 (which is why I skipped out on FM4).
Fuck this is a Rip off, i cant believe this is actually been passed off in full price game design they never really touched upon this on reviews, didnt have the slightest clue it was this bad
Bought Forza 2 & 3 but skipped 4 thankfully knowing this i have no incentive in going back to the series unless this all changes, shame was going to be one of my pickups down the line.
dont support this shit
Bought Forza 2 & 3 but skipped 4 thankfully knowing this i have no incentive in going back to the series unless this all changes, shame was going to be one of my pickups down the line.
dont support this shit
staticneuron
Member
Earlier Post:
The big thing for me is ACIV:BF. I have played and beaten every mainline AC released (also brotherhood, revelations and liberation) and basically it is no more grindy than the earlier games. Also imo, it is probably the most fun I have had in an AC game since the start. I think it is Either AC2 or brotherhood that really bugged me with the grind.
Either way, there are many examples of franchises that already had an element of grind before they sold shortcuts and after they started selling shortcuts the experience remained largely unchanged.
That means it is developers can add a shortcut system without radically altering the game to force you to purchase anything. Most seem to have them there as an option. No as far as Forza 5 is concerned, it is down to whether or not you accept the progression in the game and that is actually a separate issue than the extra options provided.
I prefer the GT series myself and no microtransactions made GT PSP the boring title it was. They simply had a horrible progression system and a nonexistent career mode. Sometimes the issue with design is in the laps of the devs.
yeah. right.
but on my second thought i wanted to actualy post something with content. not just troll.
so a lot of quoting. dont know how to do it any better. its a bit confusing with my quotes missing.
why is it speculation? go ingame and check the tracks and cars taken from fm4. as said: they didn't build them from scratch. its obvious. but neither did they take the things over without putting some effort in it.
> yes, just speculation about how much effort it is. can't know that. but some could say the OT claim is also speculation.
t10s claim "we have started from zero and overhauled everything" was BS.
what you say is right, of course.
but saying "free play has been stripped" is wrong. the game mode is better than in fm4 and has more features. just wanted to note that the wording isn't right.
regarding the quote: they recommend you stuff but you are still able to search for things you re looking for.
not saying it is better/ worse, just that the function itself is still ingame.
that was copy/ pasted from the pm and forgot to delete it. i had nothing to add to this part, so you can ignore it. i have no doubt in its correction.
no, see above. just trying to differ. the mode is optimized, car availability is gutted.
again its just the wording "Manufacturer affinity is gone". car affinity is still ingame and i am not judging the system.
haven't counted the cars available. just took a look if the cars, which i cant afford soon, are there. classic f1 and other stuff was available so i assumed "lesser" cars are there aswell.
i stay corrected.
really, i dont understand this part from the seanspeed quote. i don't get the statement.
and yes. i started to ignore this token shit already in fm4 and knew they re coming in big this time. my ability to ignore that stuff is working. BUT the more important thing is that i had no impression so far, that i am cut out features and would be better of when buying tokens.
didnt play a lot this weekend and i got about 800k ingame credits. so the big cars are not that far away for myself. of course i would think different about tokens if i were not able to get any serious amount of credits at all.
please keep this in mind:
i am not defending the monetization stuff. i don't like it, too. but i think an OT should be free of onesided information (like the free play part).
and yes, i already trolled in here (sorry) because i am sick of hyperbole stuff by people that didn't even spent a second ingame. by just reading this thread, you can get the impression that fm5 is just about tokens and f2p stuff, without any game content. or content which is cut away behind a paywall. thats not right.
CouchMaster
Member
Yup, the amount of XP/credits all the B-spec Bobs have earned for me is so ridiculously high that if there's a stat about how much total money he has earned I'd be ashamed to look at it.
From the OP
Sweet Jesus I didn't realise the $100 token pack STILL isn't enough to purchase the car, that's insane!
After playing Forza 5 all weekend (something half of this thread has not done)
At one point the money just keeps coming so you even start to thing, buying stuff is not that bad. Then you realise any of the more desirable cars cost 7-9 times more than any of the other cars.
The you have to accept that you will need to save money for it so you will need to just use the same car over an over again, that for me is the worse evil the repetition this game has, as you want to save for 3 milion to get X car and there are not free cars giving to you while level. You are stuck with your car for a Long time then spending those hard grinded Credits become something you do not enjoy because shit it was a lot of hours and you wish you could try the Ferrari F40 and the lambo aventator but you will only try one...
The point of Forza games last gen was how friendly they where on you trying stuff giving you cars to try making upgrades almost free. letting you have fun.
Now forza is starting to be something like a job...
with all that Forza 5 is one of the best driving experiences I have ever had and I am loving it. There is still time to fix this please do it.
At one point the money just keeps coming so you even start to thing, buying stuff is not that bad. Then you realise any of the more desirable cars cost 7-9 times more than any of the other cars.
The you have to accept that you will need to save money for it so you will need to just use the same car over an over again, that for me is the worse evil the repetition this game has, as you want to save for 3 milion to get X car and there are not free cars giving to you while level. You are stuck with your car for a Long time then spending those hard grinded Credits become something you do not enjoy because shit it was a lot of hours and you wish you could try the Ferrari F40 and the lambo aventator but you will only try one...
The point of Forza games last gen was how friendly they where on you trying stuff giving you cars to try making upgrades almost free. letting you have fun.
Now forza is starting to be something like a job...
with all that Forza 5 is one of the best driving experiences I have ever had and I am loving it. There is still time to fix this please do it.
dead monkey uk
Member
This is the most shocking practice I have seen in gaming. At this price they must be aiming at selling these cars to the mentally ill! I would imagine anyone working on Forza 5 must feel a shitty about what their game represents.
When you look at what MS are doing with DLC/micro transactions on their launch titles I am glad I choose to change to Sony for this generation.
It's alright, it's 'only' $99 if you bought it using the 100 token packs!
Everyone knows that the content is technically not hidden behind a paywall. I've played a bunch of free to play games and content was never hidden behind a paywall. Take a look at the Simpsons game for Android and iOS. I don't think any content there is hidden behind a paywall. Sure, you'll never get the needed currency in this life-time, but people could theoretically unlock everything because there's a reward for everything they do. The fact that the reward is very small and the amount of work you'd have to put in is ridiculous in this day and age.
Their game is either designed around the idea of you spending additional money or they have no idea how to balance a game. The argument that content is not hidden and can be unlocked without spending additional money shouldn't be made unless it's actually a thing people will likely do. I'll take a guess and say that people either buy all the stuff or just not bother with most of the highly priced content. If you have any real world examples where this has been different, please share them. Everything I've read while playing games is that people either make the decision to spend money or they change their expectations and be just okay with not getting certain things in the game.
Well, yeah. DLC and Microtransactions have changed. It used to be a fee you paid for additional fun. Now it's a fee you pay to avoid hassle.
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