PoweredByHentai
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I would like to see this. Would you happen to have the link?
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Kotaku: FTC Slams YouTube Group For 'Deceptive' Xbox Marketing Campaign
- Thread starter benny_a
- Start date
I would like to see this. Would you happen to have the link?
Agreed, follow the motive and the money I say. Surprised MS is allow to wash their hands if this so easily
Lol I would love to see this as well. Anyone have a link?
joecanada
Member
Only when they've been blatantly obvious. The best ones are probably still around. You might think they're normal users. You might even think they're your friends. But they're not.
And they could be..
anywhere.
I'm pretty skeptical of all OTs especially now. Bought bf4 at launch amid people staunchly stating it was fine which I believe should have resulted in bans.
AW same thing but that case was slightly different as I have come to realize that many cod players don't seem to mind lag, matchmaking issues, hit detection, poor netcode, or they may only play single player
slavesnyder
Member
I am sorry. Should have bookmarked it. Maybe another gaffer has some better memory than I have.
But it's true.
P.S.: What if we are all paid shills in the end, trying to influence each other?
Nice, I remember this thread and participating in it. Hope this kind of stuff is uncovered and penalized more often (and harsher) in the future because no doubt this is widespread, probably even more so these days than back then.
Here is the wall of shame (they deserve the "publicity"):
http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=97617869&postcount=768
85. Microsoft
86. Machinima
Here is the wall of shame (they deserve the "publicity"):
http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=97617869&postcount=768
Indeed...
85. Microsoft
86. Machinima
SprachBrooks
Member
I know this is a joke, but you can understand why there are so many shills when they're getting paid this kind of money. It'd be difficult for me to resist lol.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
There must be something wrong with those two channels with 1.5m and over 2m subscribers accepting a small wad of cash to promote Xbox. Shameless. With that many subscribers, you'd think you could earn marketing dollars freely without lying to your subscribers' faces.
Reading the report, why are Microsoft to blame?
So they want to market their product. Fine. They then get approached by Machinima who tell them about how they can get promoted in a positive light by Machinima and their affiliates. Microsoft accept and then Machinima even give assurances of how many views they guarantee at the minimum.
Then Machinima start approaching these YouTube people and start handing out cash to them.
Microsoft are not privy to the daily conduct of Machinima and the inner workings and communications with YouTubers.
Then Machinima show MS the results and of course MS love it up.
MS aren't stupid and I'm sure they would have guessed that this was happening but that's Machinima's business.
People are making it out as if Microsoft told Machinima to do what they did or went direct to YouTubers.
The report itself wasn't damming Microsoft at all.
So they want to market their product. Fine. They then get approached by Machinima who tell them about how they can get promoted in a positive light by Machinima and their affiliates. Microsoft accept and then Machinima even give assurances of how many views they guarantee at the minimum.
Then Machinima start approaching these YouTube people and start handing out cash to them.
Microsoft are not privy to the daily conduct of Machinima and the inner workings and communications with YouTubers.
Then Machinima show MS the results and of course MS love it up.
MS aren't stupid and I'm sure they would have guessed that this was happening but that's Machinima's business.
People are making it out as if Microsoft told Machinima to do what they did or went direct to YouTubers.
The report itself wasn't damming Microsoft at all.
man it's so awesome how generous you are about Microsoft in this case, despite there being virtually no chance they weren't totally aware of how this was going down and wasn't keeping their damn mouth shut because at the time positive press was in extreme short supply
but hey it's not like Microsoft is not constantly being caught doing disgusting things like all the time, just like Sony has been in the past, just like most major corporations have been caught in at one time or another
this wouldn't even rank on a list of Microsoft's least bad behavior days, despite it being an awful thing
Prototype Viktor
Member
come on guy! don't you know that Machinima paid for it all out the kindness of their hearts while Microsoft stood by and said
MS: Hey man, i don't think this is ok but I appreciate the help but i'm not paying for it
Machinima: Naw man we cool, we cool. Just buy me a bottle water and a pancake at E3 next year and we even. That cost about $30,000 at convention prices amirite?
MS: Cool, Cool, Cool.
Are you even going to reply to my points as opposed to just generally deriding them?
I'm not being generous to Microsoft, I'm just going by what the report says. Am I wrong in what I have said?
This is a reality in our industry I acknowledge that, but strictly speaking, it's Machinima's wrongdoing and more so, the YouTubers who accepted that bribe from them.
Im just thinking, if I were in Microsoft's position, heck I would have done the sme thing. As far as I knew Id be like shit, we've fucked up our messaging and ballsed uo the reveal, we need to reach out to core members of the gaming community. Oh here comes Machinima saying they can help do just that. Brilliant. Go on Machinima. Do your thing.
What? A business agreement was struck between Machinima and Microsoft. Why do I keep seeing people think that others are suggesting that Machinima paid out of pocket for this?
Like I said above, I am not completely absolving Microsoft here. But the main culprits really are Machinima and the YouTubers. Starcom were possibly negligent in that they didn't investigate the inner workings of Machinima further, depending on what information was available to them at the time regarding HOW Machinima approached them.
I really doubt MS is that loose with control over their marketing.
No way MS didn't know about the "...but you can't tell!"-clause.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Septic360 you have got to be joking, right?
Microsoft isn't to blame because Machinima were solely responsible for all this and MS weren't aware of their shady marketing practices?! Lol.
Microsoft isn't to blame because Machinima were solely responsible for all this and MS weren't aware of their shady marketing practices?! Lol.
At least substantiate your claims mate. I'm not even saying that MS didn't have a part in this but strictly speaking, they entered into an agreement and Machinima THEN started the jiggery pokery.
Is anyone here suggestibg that Microsoft made Machinima do this?
Is anyone here suggesting that Microsoft knew from the outset what Machinima were intending to do and the way they would conduct their affairs?
Is anyone suggesting that Microsoft found out subsequent to the deal and didn't do anything to stop it?
Let's discuss minus the pitchforks for a second.
lighthouse777
Member
actually he is correct
this took place 1 month December 2013 and was stopped fast, it did not continue for any extended period
the FTC aka the gestapo was aware of it early 2014
the FTC has no issues charging people, none [ sony/ vita advertising issue that was an FTC ruling]
so if they say Microsoft was not at fault, then they were not at fault, because they would have charged them in a heartbeat if they could have
Why do they have to substantiate their claims and you not yours?
Microsoft instigated the deal so they are ultimately responsible for its outcome. Whatever they did or didn't say still means their culpable, even more so if they didn't say and just let Machinima do whatever the hell they wanted. And it's already been ruled that Microsoft were responsible by the court (but waived probably because they bribed the judge or something
joke
What you are advocating for is someone to be able to get away with murder. So you can go give someone some money, tell them to get rid of this person, you dont want to know how they do it and dont care how they do it, you just want them got rid of.
When their caught and your bought before the jury as the defendent, your defence is "When I said I wanted rid of them I meant take them to Disney Land". They just say "You never said that or anything of that sort". Will your lie really fly?
What the fuck? One guy has only 107 subscribers. I have 350, there's no way I could get in on something like this even if I wanted to.
See my replies above in bold.
In the first post. Microsoft clearly did not carry out the required due diligence in this case.
There are advertising laws which the FTC upholds. It's a lawful matter just as much as it a criminal one. The FTC states in this case Microsoft was responsible(but they waive it for reasons).
Your liable if someone else does something bad because of you, if your not careful. Microsoft could be accused of instigating someone else to commit an illegal act.
Microsoft instigating a deal to advertise with Machinima isnt legal or illegal until Machinima implements it. Its like if they do something they wouldn't otherwise have done. That's why Microsoft has to be clear with what they do and dont allow or want from Machinima. I dont really know law though, so maybe you could get away with murder like in my example.
Deadpool_X
Banned
I'm sure this has already been stated multiple times, but MS is far from the only one doing this. My best friend's wife has a fairly well-off gaming channel on Youtube, and she is constantly doing these types of videos. She's been paid by Capcom, EA, Activision, Squeenix, MS, Sony, and Ubisoft, not to mention receiving, at the time, yet to be hardware up to and including something like a $2500 gaming laptop from Asus.
Every single time, she receives a list of how many videos she has to do regarding the product, what she can focus on, and what not to mention. Anyone who watches ANY amateur gaming Youtube channel and thinks the opinions they hear are somehow the Youtuber's actual feelings on the product instead of a paid advertisement is kidding themselves.
Every single time, she receives a list of how many videos she has to do regarding the product, what she can focus on, and what not to mention. Anyone who watches ANY amateur gaming Youtube channel and thinks the opinions they hear are somehow the Youtuber's actual feelings on the product instead of a paid advertisement is kidding themselves.
Can you give a range of her subs? Don't have to be that specific because I want to understand from your term what amateur gaming youtube channel is roughly define as, if you quantify it.
Deadpool_X
Banned
She's sitting between 60-75k subs. She isn't Pewdiepie or iJustine or anything like that, but she makes a good living at where she's at.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Anything that can be discounted as 'operating costs' is not significant, let alone enormous.
Fines are meaningless unless they hurt a company enough to be a real deterrent.
Look at it this way:What disgusts me about this is the fact that I barely make 30k a year for busting my ass in a wood shop and these guys do a 10 min circle jerk biased review and make it in twenty minutes.
You have integrity and are a net positive on society through your woodwork.
They have none and are a net negative.
If people didn't equate their self worth to their net worth as often then there would be more of you and less of them.
Aye, that's lower than what I expected and there are tons of channels, some which are GAF favourite, around these range. There are even youtubers much higher than that range who make a living by having a reputation of being incorruptible.
What disgusts me about this is the fact that I barely make 30k a year for busting my ass in a wood shop and these guys do a 10 min circle jerk biased review and make it in twenty minutes.
They are still stuck in this continuous cycle for what it is worth and unless they can transition their brand to be a multimedia conglomerate, it's really not much difference in my eyes.
I've 10 mill in my marketing budget. I'll do 500k per outlet/PR firm. I have about 1000 choices of where to spend my money and how. I will pick PR firms and outlets at random without knowing what each outlet does with my money. So if I settle on 20 outlets out of 1000, and for unknown reasons I happen to get the FTC to rule against me due to unlawful marketing practices (of said outlets); I am going to plead NOT guilty since I was ignorant about it. I did however turn down 980 outlets in my selection process for random reasons. I am not guilty cause I am random.
My replies above. Just for the record I'm not stating that MS didn't have an inkling about the breaches, or that they weren't involved at all. What I'm saying is that the FTC ruling rules against Machinima in its entirety. I cannot see where Microsoft have been reprimanded or accused of being overtly tacit with Machinima in the approach and purposeful paid distortion of YouTubers.
Well, I guess I can look forward to telling those companies to fuck off at some point down the road.
I'm at about 19k and I only get the occasional email from F2P mobile devs looking for coverage (or "crate" companies looking for unboxing videos... no thanks)
I built my channel on a very simple motto. "No Network. No Sponsors. No Brand Deals. No Bullshit"
I think it's served me well thus far.
Maybe some people are looking to sell out at the first opportunity, personally I'd rather keep my integrity.
https://www.ama.org/AboutAMA/Pages/Statement-of-Ethics.aspx
American Marketing Association - Statement of Ethics said:
If you think Microsoft didn't know and influence what Machinima were doing then you have an alarmingly inaccurate idea of how marketing works.
I hope those youtubers are will be banned on Gaf like some sites are now.
You guys are the best xoxo.
I know my social worth is above average. It would be nice to have some more net worth though haha.
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