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Media Create Sales: Week 51, 2015 (Dec 14 - Dec 20)

Scum

Junior Member
On this note, where would people consider the primary support of various publishers to be going now?

Square: PS4 (Dabble more in PC)
Sega: PS4 & PC (maybe a little 3DS)
Namco: Everything
Koei: PS4 & Vita
Konami: PS4
Capcom: 3DS & PS4
Level 5: 3DS

I expect them all to add Nintendo Pocket and more PC to their portfolio.
 

Oregano

Member
DS support dried up after 3DS came not, not prior.
A lot of Playstation system support, following the launched of their successors, is in the form of stuff like visual novels and stuff. PSP is still seeing new releases in the genre, and it's something that never caught on with Nintendo systems.

Hehe, I was looking through some 2010 Media Create threads and found this post. Also this post; Nintendo, Capcom and Level 5 eternal BFFs.

Those threads are funny in hindsight. Talk of whether FFXIII would reach 2 million, talk of Agito XIII hitting a million, talk of DQVII on DS, DQVIII on Wii and those being dismissed on the grounds SE/Horii would only put them on more technically advanced systems as well jokes about Pikmin 3 and even Nirolak joking about the prospect of a new Luigi's Mansion(based on them trademarking it)... what a crazy few years.

EDIT: Wow and Xenoblade was still Monado back then! How far we've come!
 

sörine

Banned
Hehe, I was looking through some 2010 Media Create threads and found this post. Also this post; Nintendo, Capcom and Level 5 eternal BFFs.

Those threads are funny in hindsight. Talk of whether FFXIII would reach 2 million, talk of Agito XIII hitting a million, talk of DQVII on DS, DQVIII on Wii and those being dismissed on the grounds SE/Horii would only put them on more technically advanced systems as well jokes about Pikmin 3 and even Nirolak joking about the prospect of a new Luigi's Mansion(based on them trademarking it)... what a crazy few years.
It's worth mentioning that 3DS was originally planned for a late 2010 launch and not long after those comments you linked to were made we found out about 3DS existing and 3rd parties already had kits.

2016 does seem alot like 2010 in retrospect. And both Capcom and Level 5 were probably the most notable day one supporters on 3DS, although Bandai Namco, Square Enix, Sega, Konami and Koei Tecmo were also present for launch. And Ubisoft I guess.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Hehe, I was looking through some 2010 Media Create threads and found this post. Also this post; Nintendo, Capcom and Level 5 eternal BFFs.

Those threads are funny in hindsight. Talk of whether FFXIII would reach 2 million, talk of Agito XIII hitting a million, talk of DQVII on DS, DQVIII on Wii and those being dismissed on the grounds SE/Horii would only put them on more technically advanced systems as well jokes about Pikmin 3 and even Nirolak joking about the prospect of a new Luigi's Mansion(based on them trademarking it)... what a crazy few years.

EDIT: Wow and Xenoblade was still Monado back then! How far we've come!
I think we've cycled out almost the entire 2010 cast as well.
 

Oregano

Member
sörine;190472156 said:
It's worth mentioning that 3DS was originally planned for a late 2010 launch and not long after those comments you linked to were made we found out about 3DS existing and 3rd parties already had kits.

2016 does seem alot like 2010 in retrospect. And both Capcom and Level 5 were probably the most notable day one supporters on 3DS, although Bandai Namco, Square Enix, Sega, Konami and Koei Tecmo were also present for launch. And Ubisoft I guess.

Yeah I couldn't remember exactly when they dropped the 3DS bomb but I remembered it was early 2010. I did see a post from Donny2112 in another thread saying Nintendo told publishers to expect the DS successor at the end of 2010.

EDIT:
I think we've cycled out almost the entire 2010 cast as well.

Yeah there's a lot of people who don't post any more. I was still a lurker back then too(I lurked for longer than I've been a member!).
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
This go around should theoretically be a bit more prepared since it sounds like their major partners were hearing about the NX around the start of this year and it's likely not coming out until the end of next year.

I'm not convinced it's unveiling before E3 either to give developers time to make more than tech demos to show off.
 

casiopao

Member
On this note, where would people consider the primary support of various publishers to be going now?

Still the same? Publishers will still release title for both Nintendo and Sony platform depending on what title they are releasing and what is the demographic they are targeting.

Square: PS4(for most of their title except for most of their DQ title.)
Sega: Most on 3DS and maybe upcoming NX with their Atlus support + a bit of PS4 from Sega own main studio
Namco: all platform
Koei: Mostly PS.
Konami: PS
Capcom: 3DS and PS4
Level 5: 3DS
MMV QQL: Most anime based title on PS and HM series still staying on 3DS
 

Scum

Junior Member
This go around should theoretically be a bit more prepared since it sounds like their major partners were hearing about the NX around the start of this year and it's likely not coming out until the end of next year.

I'm not convinced it's unveiling before E3 either to give developers time to make more than tech demos to show off.

At least it's a damn better than with the 3DS and/or WiiU, which I read somewhere that devs only got their hands on or knew about them 3 months before E3.
 

Oregano

Member
This go around should theoretically be a bit more prepared since it sounds like their major partners were hearing about the NX around the start of this year and it's likely not coming out until the end of next year.

I'm not convinced it's unveiling before E3 either to give developers time to make more than tech demos to show off.

I still think it will have some form of unveiling before the end of this fiscal year. I think it'll soften any bad results from Nintendo and also allow their partners to more openly discuss plans for the following fiscal year.

Overall I think I'm still pretty bearish on NX third party support. I think publishers are still busy trying to get their ducks in a row with regards to PS4 and some of them were pretty burnt by the 3DS.
 

Eolz

Member
This go around should theoretically be a bit more prepared since it sounds like their major partners were hearing about the NX around the start of this year and it's likely not coming out until the end of next year.

I'm not convinced it's unveiling before E3 either to give developers time to make more than tech demos to show off.

I don't think it'll be properly "unveiled" before E3 as well, but I'm sure it'll be sort of described (handheld, console, focus, etc) vaguely at one of the next investors meetings though. No big details obviously, but they are getting questions about it everytime, only to reply "we'll say something in 2016".
 

Busaiku

Member
What is Capcom besides Monster Hunter, Ace Attorney, and Street Fighter nowadays anyway. The latter 2 aren't even that notable.
Back in those 2010 and early 3DS days, they still had more varied output. Dragon's Dogma existed, Okamiden came out, Resident Evil was out/coming, Ace Attorney was stronger, and Street Fighter was taking off.
Then they did a bunch of new IPs in the late DS/PSP/early 3DS (some of which were canned), and now they're basically a Monster Hunter house.
They haven't even hit it off on mobile.
 

Oregano

Member
What is Capcom besides Monster Hunter, Ace Attorney, and Street Fighter nowadays anyway. The latter 2 aren't even that notable.
Back in those 2010 and early 3DS days, they still had more varied output. Dragon's Dogma existed, Okamiden came out, Resident Evil was out/coming, Ace Attorney was stronger, and Street Fighter was taking off.
Then they did a bunch of new IPs in the late DS/PSP/early 3DS (some of which were canned), and now they're basically a Monster Hunter house.
They haven't even hit it off on mobile.

Resident Evil Umbrella Corps, Sengoku Basara(Dead IP walking) and Deep Down(hahahahaha). Not to mention stuff like Dragon's Dogma Online.
 
SE: PS4 primarily, few titles for PSV and 3DS.
Sega: PS4 primarily, with the usual 3DS stuff
NB: PS4/V/3DS
Koei: PS4/V
Capcom: PS4/3DS
L5: PS4/3DS
SCEJ: PS4
Konami(RIP): PS4
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
1*: [WII] Wii Party # (Nintendo) {2010.07.08} - 234.892 / 2.440.724
2*: [WIU] Splatoon # (Nintendo) {2015.05.28} - 144.818 / 998.667
Code:
+--+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|  | MCreate  | MCreate  | MCreate  | MCreate  |
|  |    1*    |    1*    |    2*    |    2*    |
|Wk|2010.07.08|2010.07.08|2015.05.28|2015.05.28|
|  |    to    |    to    |    to    |    to    |
|  |2011.04.10|2011.04.10|2016.02.28|2016.02.28|
+--+----------+----------+----------+----------+
| 1|   234.892|   234.892|   144.818|   144.818|
| 2|   112.850|   347.742|    68.913|   213.731|
| 3|    98.564|   446.306|    53.198|   266.929|
| 4|    82.713|   529.019|    43.653|   310.582|
| 5|    82.698|   611.718|    37.458|   348.040|
| 6|   124.489|   736.207|    34.135|   382.175|
| 7|    68.853|   805.060|    26.136|   408.312|
| 8|    54.673|   859.733|    22.557|   430.869|
| 9|    55.837|   915.570|    24.289|   455.158|
|10|    44.908|   960.478|    28.256|   483.413|
|11|    36.547|   997.025|    35.620|   519.034|
|12|    43.077| 1.040.102|    41.361|   560.394|
|13|    33.067| 1.073.169|    23.874|   584.268|
|14|    26.259| 1.099.428|    23.403|   607.670|
|15|    23.304| 1.122.732|    18.826|   626.497|
|16|    15.895| 1.138.627|    17.490|   643.987|
|17|    17.337| 1.155.964|    16.772|   660.759|
|18|    17.788| 1.173.753|    20.736|   681.495|
|19|    17.471| 1.191.223|    14.958|   696.454|
|20|    16.814| 1.208.037|    13.186|   709.639|
|21|    24.525| 1.232.562|    14.680|   724.319|
|22|    30.900| 1.263.462|    13.159|   737.478|
|23|    55.412| 1.318.875|    11.969|   749.447|
|24|    92.949| 1.411.824|    13.891|   763.338|
|25|   162.135| 1.573.958|    21.098|   784.436|
|26|   102.933| 1.676.891|    17.681|   802.117|
|27|    53.144| 1.730.035|    23.823|   825.940|
|28|    15.986| 1.746.021|    35.256|   861.197|
|29|    10.625| 1.756.646|    51.138|   912.335|
|30|    10.778| 1.767.425|    86.332|   998.667|
|31|     9.678| 1.777.102|          |          |
|32|    10.239| 1.787.341|          |          |
|33|     7.472| 1.794.813|          |          |
|34|     7.000| 1.801.800|          |          |
|35|     6.500| 1.808.301|          |          |
|36|     6.072| 1.814.373|          |          |
|37|     7.112| 1.821.485|          |          |
|38|     8.450| 1.829.936|          |          |
|39|     7.998| 1.837.933|          |          |
|40|     8.501| 1.846.434|          |          |
+--+----------+----------+----------+----------+
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
I still think it will have some form of unveiling before the end of this fiscal year. I think it'll soften any bad results from Nintendo and also allow their partners to more openly discuss plans for the following fiscal year.

Overall I think I'm still pretty bearish on NX third party support. I think publishers are still busy trying to get their ducks in a row with regards to PS4 and some of them were pretty burnt by the 3DS.
Japanese publishers showed up majorly late to every 8th generation platform.

Like let's compare how the West and Japan handled 8th generation platforms they cared about.

The West (PS4/XB1):

Basically every publishers showed up in force at launch with cross generation titles and followed through with a consistent stream of games. If you only had one title at launch, you assuredly had more in the Spring. The few publishers who did not enthusiastically support the PS4/XB1 enough were treated like village idiots and had to constantly explain themselves to both fans and investors (see Take-Two or Codemasters). Even children's products like Skylanders and LEGO made sure to get on board and there were upgrade plans for the biggest titles of the year along with things like character transfers and season passes carrying over. There was a huge, unified effort to make these platforms successful.

Japan (3DS/Vita/PS4):

Barely anyone showed up to the launch of any of these platforms and the support that was present was generally poor. This was then followed by a huge drought until 9-15 months into the system's lifespan when they even started getting more notable cross generational titles. The 3DS had the quickest support, but it was still notably slow.

Unless something has notably changed, expectations for initial NX support should be low, yes. What I meant by my statement though is that they want to let those who are showing up have the time they need to produce a good product and unveil it in a relatively far along state.
 

Oregano

Member
@Nirolak
It'd probably benefit publishers to be quicker but if anything I see them taking even longer with NX than it took them with those three systems, especially the 3DS. I expect they'll wait for Nintendo to prove there's an audience.

I'm also going to say that I don't expect any existing brands that weren't on 3DS to show up on NX.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
The West (PS4/XB1):

Basically every publishers showed up in force at launch with cross generation titles and followed through with a consistent stream of games.

This could be the case for NX too with some 3DS/NX titles at least from major publishers.
 

Oregano

Member
This could be the case for NX too with some 3DS/NX titles at least from major publishers.

It really depends on what they've got in the pipeline. SE with DQXI, Level 5 with Youkai Watch 3 and/or Snack World and Capcom with MHXG or MH Stories are the only identifiable possibilities at the moment.

I'd actually wonder if any of the other publishers have products big enough and/or core oriented enough to justify a 3DS/NX release. I guess we'll see over the next year.
 

L~A

Member
I haven't read to much yet, but I guess this bundles will be limited?
Will MC only track them for a few weeks, then?

Haven't read anything about them being limited, but I expected they won't remain on shelves forever. Seems more like some collector's bundles rather than anything else.

Also, blue bundle is Pokémon Center exclusive, it seems.

About that NX talk, expecting a february/april reveal, then follow-up at E3. Yeah I know, not really the most original prediction ever (basically what Sony did).
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
Western support will be shit on NX despite of what it actually is imho. Japanese support will be pretty solid, similar to the 3ds one imho, if it is also portable
 
I've been guilty of that but I'm referring back to the DS days. There was a point where the DS slowed down and the PSP picked up. The PSP was still going very strong post-3DS release even.

I think that was somewhat true (especially SE's strangely high end late support like third birthday, Type-0 and the dissidias etc), but a bit overstated .
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Ōkami;190446633 said:
Famitsu Retail + Digital November 2015
  1. [3DS] Monster Hunter X – 1,653,648 (1,542,104 physical, 111,544 digital)
  2. [PS4] Call of Duty: Black Ops III – 262,726 (239,833 physical, 22,893 digital)
  3. [PS4] Star Wars Battlefront – 150,078 (128,335 physical, 21,743 digital)
  4. [3DS] Disney Magical World 2 – 124,631 (121,164 physical, 3,467 digital)
  5. [WIU] Splatoon – 61,178 (56,854 physical, 4,324 digital)
  6. [3DS] Yo-kai Watch Busters – 60,447 (57,928 physical, 2,519 digital)
  7. [3DS] Project X Zone 2 – 57,305 (55,137 physical, 2,168 digital)
  8. [PS4] Assassin’s Creed Syndicate – 55,751 (52,591 physical, 3,160 digital)
  9. [WIU] Super Mario Maker – 54,594 (47,262 physical, 7,332 digital)
  10. [PS3] Call of Duty: Black Ops III – 48,509 (46,738 physical, 1,771 digital)
  11. [PSV] God Eater Resurrection – 43,700 (39,909 physical, 3,791 digital)
  12. [PS4] Atelier Sophie: The Alchemist of the Mysterious Book – 38,242 (32,913 physical, 5,329 digital)
  13. [PSV] Atelier Sophie: The Alchemist of the Mysterious Book – 37,721 (33,774 physical, 3,947 digital)
  14. [3DS] Zelda: Tri Force Heroes – 34,094 (31,580 physical, 2,514 digital)
  15. [PSV] Omega Labyrinth – 33,747 (29,408 physical, 4,339 digital)
  16. [3DS] Animal Crossing: Happy Home Designer – 30,398 (25,998 physical, 4,400 digital)
  17. [PS4] Sword Art Online: Game Director’s Edition – 27,684 (26,299 physical, 1,385 digital)
  18. [PSV] Minecraft: PlayStation Vita Edition – 27,497 (24,106 physical, 3,391 digital)
  19. [PS4] Need for Speed – 27,095 (23,119 physical, 3,976 digital)
  20. [PSV] To Love Ru Trouble Darkness: True Princess – 24,787 (23,552 physical, 1,235 digital)
  21. [3DS] Aikatsu! My No.1 Stage! – 24,434 (23,957 physical, 477 digital)
  22. [PS4] Fairy Fencer F: Advent Dark Force – 21,736 (19,706 physical, 2,030 digital)
  23. [3DS] Sumikko Gurashi Omise Hajimerun Desu – 19,281 (18,892 physical, 389 digital)
  24. [WIU] Animal Crossing: amiibo Festival – 19,176 (19,176 physical, N/A digital)
  25. [PSV] Girl Friend Beta Kimi to Sugosu Natsuyasumi – 18,556 (17,448 physical, 1,108 digital)
  26. [PSV] Hyperdimension Neptunia VS Sega Hard Girls: Dream Fusion Special – 17,582 (16,353 physical, 1,229 digital)
  27. [PS4] God Eater Resurrection – 17,220 (15,593 physical, 1,627 digital)
  28. [3DS] Pokemon Rumble World – 15,914 (15,914 physical, N/A digital)
  29. [PSV] Criminal Girls 2 – 15,838 (15,245 physical, 593 digital)
  30. [3DS] Cube Creator 3D – 15,794 (N/A physical, 15,794 digital)
Mpl pls.

Thanks for compiling it, Okami. I really didn't have enough time / mind the past few days to do it due to Christmas. Again, thanks. Going to update the Famitsu Digital Sales Thread as soon as possible.

EDIT: Can anyone check Wii U / 3DS Japanese current charts on the devices themselves, please? I suspect the online pages haven't been updated at all in the past two days.

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/wiiu/software/ranking.html
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/3ds/software/ranking.html
 

Oregano

Member
I think that was somewhat true (especially SE's strangely high end late support like third birthday, Type-0 and the dissidias etc), but a bit overstated .

Possibly but it was noted back then.

Haven't read anything about them being limited, but I expected they won't remain on shelves forever. Seems more like some collector's bundles rather than anything else.

Also, blue bundle is Pokémon Center exclusive, it seems.

About that NX talk, expecting a february/april reveal, then follow-up at E3. Yeah I know, not really the most original prediction ever (basically what Sony did).

I still think it could be as early as next month. I wouldn't put money on it but it also wouldn't shock me after the unveiling of the N3DS last year. Ooo I'm really interested in the end of year interviews with devs in Famitsu actually.

Western support will be shit on NX despite of what it actually is imho. Japanese support will be pretty solid, similar to the 3ds one imho, if it is also portable

It depends on what you consider western support. Nintendo might opt to pursue mobile titles depending on their hardware in which case it might actually have decent western support, even from the big pubs, but not the type core gamers would care about.
 
I haven't read to much yet, but I guess this bundles will be limited?
Will MC only track them for a few weeks, then?

Haven't read anything about them being limited, but I expected they won't remain on shelves forever. Seems more like some collector's bundles rather than anything else.

Also, blue bundle is Pokémon Center exclusive, it seems.

About that NX talk, expecting a february/april reveal, then follow-up at E3. Yeah I know, not really the most original prediction ever (basically what Sony did).
They're seems limited indeed, at least from what I've seen on Amazon JP. Already sold-out on there and people said the same for Toy R'Us as well
Thanks for compiling it, Okami. I really didn't have enough time / mind the past few days to do it due to Christmas. Again, thanks. Going to update the Famitsu Digital Sales Thread as soon as possible.

EDIT: Can anyone check Wii U / 3DS Japanese current charts on the devices themselves, please? I suspect the online pages haven't been updated at all in the past two days.

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/wiiu/software/ranking.html
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/3ds/software/ranking.html
Weekly is the same, There's 10 sec run dsiware game on all time chart no.14, but I think the website ones ignore dsiware stuff right? (For 3DS of course... can't check for Wii U... yet :p)
 
Western support will be shit on NX despite of what it actually is imho. Japanese support will be pretty solid, similar to the 3ds one imho, if it is also portable

I would expect decent support from Ubisoft and Activision to start with (mostly multi-platform stuff, but maybe the occasional family friendly exclusive, too), with the future of that dependent on how the system performs. But we certainly aren't going to be seeing anything from EA or Take Two at any point in the near future.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
@Nirolak
It'd probably benefit publishers to be quicker but if anything I see them taking even longer with NX than it took them with those three systems, especially the 3DS. I expect they'll wait for Nintendo to prove there's an audience.

I'm also going to say that I don't expect any existing brands that weren't on 3DS to show up on NX.

This could be the case for NX too with some 3DS/NX titles at least from major publishers.
That's kind of the issue. Due to how the Japanese industry works, we can't actually tell, since Japanese publishers tend to actually try and keep secrets in this type of scenario.

For comparison...

Western support will be shit on NX despite of what it actually is imho. Japanese support will be pretty solid, similar to the 3ds one imho, if it is also portable

...In the West it's actually quite easy to tell this is the case. How? Well, in December 2012, we had 20+ page leaked documents for the PS4 and XB1 detailing their entire setup, weekly (or more) rumors and leaks about the system, and developers were even flagrantly announcing next-gen titles as early as the previous E3. On top of this, basically everyone was more than happy to talk about the next generation in general terms, publicly admit they were developing next generation games, and confirm various aspects about the next systems like what types of business models they supported or be quite forthcoming about the launch window.

For the NX, we've had basically none of that, with the only Western acknowledge of the system pretty much being the Wall Street Journal mentioning it was behind closed doors at E3.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
That's kind of the issue. Due to how the Japanese industry works, we can't actually tell, since Japanese publishers tend to actually try and keep secrets in this type of scenario.

For comparison...



...In the West it's actually quite easy to tell this is the case. How? Well, in December 2012, we had 20+ page leaked documents for the PS4 and XB1 detailing their entire setup, weekly (or more) rumors and leaks about the system, and developers were even flagrantly announcing next-gen titles as early as the previous E3. On top of this, basically everyone was more than happy to talk about the next generation in general terms, publicly admit they were developing next generation games, and confirm various aspects about the next systems like what types of business models they supported or be quite forthcoming about the launch window.

For the NX, we've had basically none of that, with the only Western acknowledge of the system pretty much being the Wall Street Journal mentioning it was behind closed doors at E3.

While I'm surely not expecting a huge Western support for NX, especially at launch (heck, my most optimistic opinion on that is mediocre), couldn't the silence so far be a consequence of much stricter NDAs / controls than in the past? I think John Harker hinted at NDAs being thrown here and there a while ago, and, going by Rosti's report, policies are less permissive on the new Developer Page too.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
While I'm surely not expecting a huge Western support for NX, especially at launch (heck, my most optimistic opinion on that is mediocre), couldn't the silence so far be a consequence of much stricter NDAs / controls than in the past? I think John Harker hinted at NDAs being thrown here and there a while ago, and, going by Rosti's report, policies are less permissive on the new Developer Page too.
Even the best kept secrets flow like water in the Western industry. Hell, the Xbox One had zebra striped consoles on a per developer basis to try and stop things and it did all of nothing. We have stories of Microsoft battering developers like that Crytek guy over the leaks as well, but it didn't seem to do anything either.

Ubisoft has a division dedicated to stopping leaks and I've even gotten complaints they sit around on this forum PMing people angrily and it's not like we don't hear about or see all of their games months if not years before their intended unveiling.

EA can't keep secrets. Activision can't keep secrets. Warner can't keep secrets. ZeniMax/Bethesda can't keep secrets. Even secrecy stalwarts like Blizzard and Rockstar have become leaky buckets over the years. If none of the people who are leaking their entire three year slates are saying anything about the system, who is working on the games?

The way things stay secret these days is that there's very few people working on them. One thing that does stay secret in the West is the existence of most indie games, but that's because there's 1-10 people sitting around making them. Sometimes smaller products like licensed games or children's products are the same.

If you could just ramp up an NDA and call it a day, everyone would have done so years ago.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Yeah, Level 5's primary support is going to 3DS (and mobile, but that's kind of inherent given they're a Japanese publisher in 2015).
 

horuhe

Member
According to some retailers, there has been some little restock of the Splatoon bundle, and Splatoon amiibo, but they are instantly gone. Monster Strike is not doing hot as expected.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Even the best kept secrets flow like water in the Western industry. Hell, the Xbox One had zebra striped consoles on a per developer basis to try and stop things and it did all of nothing. We have stories of Microsoft battering developers like that Crytek guy over the leaks as well, but it didn't seem to do anything either.

Ubisoft has a division dedicated to stopping leaks and I've even gotten complaints they sit around on this forum PMing people angrily and it's not like we don't hear about or see all of their games months if not years before their intended unveiling.

EA can't keep secrets. Activision can't keep secrets. Warner can't keep secrets. ZeniMax/Bethesda can't keep secrets. Even secrecy stalwarts like Blizzard and Rockstar have become leaky buckets over the years. If none of the people who are leaking their entire three year slates are saying anything about the system, who is working on the games?

The way things stay secret these days is that there's very few people working on them. One thing that does stay secret in the West is the existence of most indie games, but that's because there's 1-10 people sitting around making them. Sometimes smaller products like licensed games or children's products are the same.

If you could just ramp up an NDA and call it a day, everyone would have done so years ago.

Ubi is the absolute worst at keeping secrets. I only know someone far, far down the line and he knew a ton about the PS4, XBONE, and Wii U.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Ubi is the absolute worst at keeping secrets. I only know someone far, far down the line and he knew a ton about the PS4, XBONE, and Wii U.

Right, the expansion of the number of staff working on each game pretty much causes the degree of leaking we have right now.

When 1500 people work on getting Assassin's Creed: Egypt out the door, even if only 1/3rd of them are dealing with the next-gen versions (which is frankly preposterously low), that's 500 leak vectors.

Now if Ubisoft has only 20 people in Ubisoft Kiev doing an NX port of the next Assassin's Creed since they don't need assets any better than the existing ones, then yes that's possible to keep secret, but when you look at the count of games being made that starts adding up to hundreds or even a thousand people really fast if there's a lot of developer support.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Right, the expansion of the number of staff working on each game pretty much causes the degree of leaking we have right now.

When 1500 people work on getting Assassin's Creed: Egypt out the door, even if only 1/3rd of them are dealing with the next-gen versions (which is frankly preposterously low), that's 500 leak vectors.

Yep. Back when games were made by 5-20 people this just didn't happen at this rate.

Everyone was pretty good at keeping things mum until about ten years ago, and it's clear to see why.

It's the same thing that happened to the movie industry as it started to get big, they just embraced that everything would get out eventually and decided to work with the industry reporters to control the message.
 

Oregano

Member
Well we even had Wii U/Gamepad mockups before the thing's existence was even acknowledged by Nintendo so the complete lack of substantial NX leaks is still odd.

I'm really curious about where they're at with western publishers. Matt and John Harker have both pretty much confirmed that publishers at least know what it is(and in Matt's case they know handheld specs not that they'll care).

Also SE dropping the Dragon Quest bombshell was very much the western style of Next Gen announcement. I think people have definitely been on the look out for weird, nonspecific announcements(EOV, Tekken, World of FF and FFVII are the ones people have picked up on). It'll be interesting to see if we get any of those over the next few months.
 

Regiruler

Member
And that proved to be such a great decision didn't it?

Rather that than "launch window" ad nauseam. Although granted, the 3DS's game situation at launch was even worse.
Even the best kept secrets flow like water in the Western industry. Hell, the Xbox One had zebra striped consoles on a per developer basis to try and stop things and it did all of nothing. We have stories of Microsoft battering developers like that Crytek guy over the leaks as well, but it didn't seem to do anything either.

Ubisoft has a division dedicated to stopping leaks and I've even gotten complaints they sit around on this forum PMing people angrily and it's not like we don't hear about or see all of their games months if not years before their intended unveiling.

EA can't keep secrets. Activision can't keep secrets. Warner can't keep secrets. ZeniMax/Bethesda can't keep secrets. Even secrecy stalwarts like Blizzard and Rockstar have become leaky buckets over the years. If none of the people who are leaking their entire three year slates are saying anything about the system, who is working on the games?

The way things stay secret these days is that there's very few people working on them. One thing that does stay secret in the West is the existence of most indie games, but that's because there's 1-10 people sitting around making them. Sometimes smaller products like licensed games or children's products are the same.

If you could just ramp up an NDA and call it a day, everyone would have done so years ago.
I think this paints a picture of a later release than we anticipate just as much as it proposes the minimal support story we have heard time and time again.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
1*: [3DS] Disney Magic World # (Bandai Namco Games) {2013.08.01} - 105.008 / 532.218
2*: [3DS] Disney Magic World 2 # (Bandai Namco Games) {2015.11.05} - 69.864 / 203.262
Code:
+--+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|  | Famitsu  | Famitsu  | Famitsu  | Famitsu  |
|  |    1*    |    1*    |    2*    |    2*    |
|Wk|2013.08.01|2013.08.01|2015.11.05|2015.11.05|
|  |    to    |    to    |    to    |    to    |
|  |2014.07.13|2014.07.13|2016.10.16|2016.10.16|
+--+----------+----------+----------+----------+
| 1|   105.008|   105.008|    69.864|    69.864|
| 2|    46.872|   151.880|    24.719|    94.583|
| 3|    41.764|   193.644|    13.362|   107.945|
| 4|    21.940|   215.584|    13.219|   121.164|
| 5|    16.989|   232.573|    15.474|   136.638|
| 6|    11.657|   244.230|    23.293|   159.931|
| 7|    11.089|   255.319|    43.331|   203.262|
| 8|     9.680|   264.999|          |          |
| 9|     8.740|   273.739|          |          |
|10|     6.557|   280.296|          |          |
|11|     6.782|   287.078|          |          |
|12|     6.865|   293.943|          |          |
|13|     6.206|   300.149|          |          |
|14|     5.011|   305.160|          |          |
|15|     4.294|   309.454|          |          |
|16|     3.665|   313.119|          |          |
|17|     4.943|   318.062|          |          |
|18|     6.897|   324.959|          |          |
|19|    13.131|   338.090|          |          |
|20|    23.713|   361.803|          |          |
|21|    40.332|   402.135|          |          |
|22|    24.935|   427.070|          |          |
|23|    18.413|   445.483|          |          |
|24|     5.491|   450.974|          |          |
|25|     4.934|   455.908|          |          |
|26|     3.620|   459.528|          |          |
|27|     3.037|   462.565|          |          |
|28|     2.052|   464.617|          |          |
|29|     2.486|   467.103|          |          |
|30|     2.343|   469.446|          |          |
|31|     2.192|   471.638|          |          |
|32|     2.150|   473.788|          |          |
|33|     2.057|   475.845|          |          |
|34|     2.208|   478.053|          |          |
|35|     3.023|   481.076|          |          |
|36|     2.434|   483.510|          |          |
|37|     1.969|   485.479|          |          |
|38|          |          |          |          |
|39|          |          |          |          |
|40|          |          |          |          |
|41|          |          |          |          |
|42|          |          |          |          |
|43|          |          |          |          |
|44|          |          |          |          |
|45|          |          |          |          |
|46|          |          |          |          |
|47|          |          |          |          |
|48|          |   499.733|          |          |
|49|          |          |          |          |
|50|          |          |          |          |
+--+----------+----------+----------+----------+
 

Eolz

Member

Yep ahah. Working in this industry and knowing other people working there in various places certainly led to "interesting" moments and discussions.
NDA is a bitch, but sometimes for very good reasons. Always a bit disappointed when something is leaked in a bad way.
From what I've seen on the other side (the one most users on this forum never truly hear about), western leaks are usually due to hierarchy problems/jealousy and politics of the worst kind. I don't know how they do in Japan, but I've also seen that when people are happy where they work, it doesn't happen. Respect probably has a big part in this too.
edit: and before I get PMs about this, I'm done with leaks (seen things, said others, won't do it).

edit2: man this went off-topic. But I wish we got more info about the japanese side of the industry. Only stuff getting out is usually decades later or pretty vague. Huge respect for that, but still.
 

Vena

Member
I don't think the west cares about the NX. The 'thirst' for the new gen to hype up their products on and sell is already here and established. They no longer have a need to be gungho with it and that is the simple reality. Unless the western market experiences some sort of catastrophic collapse from over budgeted AAAA productions (or Nintendo pulls a Wii out of its ass), Nintendo will, for this gen's duration at least, be a secondary thought against the established footholds of the X1/PS4.

(If anything, I'd say the west wants to narrow their spread as much as possible in general. Less consoles the better. We may soon see the same thing from the big publishers with VR if the Oculus really does clock in a lot higher than expected on price, with everything funneling to PSVR for main development. Of course, Oculus/Viva have the entire PC community which has already made hundreds of VR capable games, so in this regard such an act may be less than fruitful but we will see. We still know very little on any of the headsets outside of their targets and how comfortable they are...)

Conversely, in Japan, I think developers are trying to proliferate as much as possible in an attempt to survive because two years of throwing titles at the PS4 hasn't turned it into anything even remotely resembling a market leader or even potential replacement of one before the NX launches and the removal of the Vita's crutch on cross-platform titles in that ecosystem. On this regard, and due to the sheer strength that Nintendo has in the domestic market, I think here the support will be considerably better. The 3DS is the only thing sustaining the market (on Nintendo's products and several strong IP from third parties) and nothing in the current market is going to suddenly jump in to take its place. For that reason I think there will be a more forward and immediate attempt to transition the 3DS audience to the next handheld from both Nintendo and third parties. I actually expect to see a good number of cross-gen products from Nintendo, and I still believe there's something in the water for MH:Stories, not to mention DQXI's coming 3DS/NX form.

If the title has western hooks already planted, I expect it to be PS4 first and potential NX. If its the other way around, I expect it to be NX first and then whatever else follows, PC and/or PS4. Or maybe Ninendo will start using Sony's dubious words and start announcing their own "debuts" and PC inclusive "exclusives".

If its a family oriented title, I don't expect another DQB situation to occur, let's put it that way.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
1*: [ALL] Software Sales 2009 (All Publishers) {2008.12.29} - 2.797.057 / 68.556.398
2*: [ALL] Software Sales 2010 (All Publishers) {2010.01.04} - 1.766.699 / 65.527.967
3*: [ALL] Software Sales 2011 (All Publishers) {2011.01.03} - 1.370.314 / 53.870.000
4*: [ALL] Software Sales 2012 (All Publishers) {2012.01.02} - 1.825.000 / 51.321.000
5*: [ALL] Software Sales 2013 (All Publishers) {2012.12.31} - 1.759.000 / 49.146.000
6*: [ALL] Software Sales 2014 (All Publishers) {2013.12.30} - 1.535.000 / 43.053.288
7*: [ALL] Software Sales 2015 (All Publishers) {2014.12.29} - 1.209.000 / 34.395.000
Code:
+--+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
|  | MCreate  | MCreate  | MCreate  | MCreate  | MCreate  | MCreate  | MCreate  |
|  |    1*    |    2*    |    3*    |    4*    |    5*    |    6*    |    7*    |
|Wk|2009.01.05|2010.01.04|2011.01.03|2012.01.02|2012.12.31|2013.12.30|2015.01.05|
|  |    to    |    to    |    to    |    to    |    to    |    to    |    to    |
|  |2010.01.03|2011.01.02|2012.01.01|2012.12.30|2013.12.29|2014.12.28|2016.01.03|
+--+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+
| 1| 4.006.768| 1.766.699| 1.370.314| 1.825.000| 1.759.000| 1.535.000| 1.719.000|
| 2| 5.121.333| 2.962.202| 2.165.135| 2.700.000| 2.408.000| 2.346.000| 2.118.000|
| 3| 6.062.276| 3.923.845| 2.845.620| 3.395.000| 3.160.000| 2.920.000| 2.884.000|
| 4| 7.440.569| 5.856.634| 3.940.557| 4.377.000| 3.845.000| 3.650.000| 3.380.000|
| 5| 8.337.567| 7.073.728| 4.801.238| 5.126.000| 4.431.000| 4.495.000| 3.793.000|
| 6| 9.504.711| 8.050.400| 5.964.048| 5.769.000| 5.768.000| 5.436.000| 4.487.000|
| 7|10.572.376| 8.985.983| 6.835.594| 6.540.000| 6.432.000| 5.996.000| 5.180.000|
| 8|12.039.925|10.130.273| 8.407.918| 7.459.000| 7.268.000| 7.141.000| 6.154.000|
| 9|13.328.291|11.225.980| 9.601.135| 8.730.000| 8.544.000| 8.062.000| 6.672.000|
|10|14.281.878|12.148.862|10.513.000| 9.581.000| 9.513.000| 8.659.000| 7.481.000|
|11|15.360.476|13.376.474|11.113.000|10.572.000|10.471.000| 9.352.000| 8.237.000|
|12|16.412.292|14.823.771|11.825.000|11.607.000|12.018.000|10.736.000| 9.522.000|
|13|17.202.791|15.872.339|12.692.000|12.664.000|13.041.000|11.741.000|10.339.000|
|14|17.873.999|16.547.142|13.318.000|13.519.000|13.688.000|12.308.000|10.722.000|
|15|18.577.769|17.131.596|14.403.000|14.001.000|14.170.000|13.007.000|11.103.000|
|16|19.403.104|17.792.707|15.099.000|14.674.000|15.157.000|13.468.000|11.587.000|
|17|20.481.981|19.709.310|15.984.000|15.713.000|16.051.000|14.099.000|12.339.000|
|18|21.346.893|20.781.009|16.681.000|16.549.000|16.878.000|14.666.000|12.731.000|
|19|21.914.160|21.411.898|17.111.000|16.930.000|17.347.000|15.106.000|12.966.000|
|20|22.487.749|22.151.729|17.573.000|17.352.000|17.803.000|15.486.000|13.250.000|
|21|23.712.614|23.273.584|18.170.000|18.246.000|18.647.000|15.876.000|13.716.000|
|22|24.414.201|23.947.666|18.648.000|19.262.000|19.110.000|16.649.000|14.073.000|
|23|24.970.895|24.676.884|19.338.000|19.854.000|19.464.000|17.244.000|14.597.000|
|24|25.592.568|25.294.154|20.114.000|20.528.000|19.909.000|17.662.000|15.001.000|
|25|26.674.667|26.261.577|20.805.000|22.533.000|20.426.000|18.022.000|15.800.000|
|26|27.510.140|27.568.282|21.538.000|23.650.000|21.436.000|18.788.000|16.159.000|
|27|30.402.074|28.693.742|22.157.000|24.488.000|22.094.000|19.179.000|17.318.000|
|28|31.656.595|29.933.492|23.030.000|25.098.000|22.714.000|20.795.000|17.912.000|
|29|32.683.061|30.888.012|23.934.000|26.045.000|23.280.000|21.544.000|18.434.000|
|30|34.276.809|32.332.724|24.751.000|27.480.000|24.237.000|22.112.000|19.441.000|
|31|35.753.123|33.305.946|25.708.000|28.742.000|24.894.000|22.580.000|20.023.000|
|32|36.936.846|34.247.906|26.731.000|29.614.000|25.448.000|23.193.000|20.613.000|
|33|37.737.755|35.129.510|27.597.000|30.449.000|26.033.000|23.804.000|21.060.000|
|34|38.586.695|36.038.672|28.747.000|30.996.000|26.494.000|24.243.000|22.049.000|
|35|39.520.326|36.751.608|29.454.000|31.927.000|27.533.000|24.939.000|22.866.000|
|36|41.588.419|37.429.874|30.609.000|32.481.000|28.016.000|25.403.000|23.407.000|
|37|43.213.105|40.626.547|31.409.000|33.118.000|30.081.000|26.842.000|24.018.000|
|38|44.114.250|42.167.403|32.622.000|33.700.000|30.875.000|27.511.000|24.559.000|
|39|45.888.696|43.513.500|33.371.000|34.584.000|31.778.000|28.249.000|25.210.000|
|40|46.990.562|44.641.043|34.397.000|36.035.000|32.232.000|28.799.000|25.654.000|
|41|47.995.295|45.479.795|35.261.000|36.858.000|35.151.000|30.653.000|26.074.000|
|42|48.845.180|46.531.484|36.096.000|37.490.000|36.213.000|31.285.000|26.436.000|
|43|50.137.837|47.818.227|37.353.000|38.274.000|37.059.000|32.021.000|26.917.000|
|44|51.232.382|48.555.150|38.714.000|39.247.000|37.825.000|32.456.000|27.490.000|
|45|52.172.739|49.384.042|39.836.000|40.376.000|38.615.000|32.768.000|27.910.000|
|46|52.927.212|50.294.271|40.917.000|41.249.000|39.868.000|33.405.000|28.514.000|
|47|54.030.416|51.773.380|42.279.000|42.384.000|40.989.000|35.259.000|30.493.000|
|48|56.753.878|55.049.625|44.002.000|43.600.000|41.925.000|36.287.000|31.370.000|
|49|58.919.423|57.273.166|46.020.000|45.246.000|43.322.000|37.361.000|32.435.000|
|50|62.864.962|60.111.317|48.832.000|46.898.000|45.045.000|39.624.000|34.395.000|
|51|66.132.466|63.616.757|52.249.000|49.620.000|47.052.000|41.533.000|          |
|52|68.556.398|65.527.967|53.870.000|51.321.000|49.146.000|43.053.288|          |
+--+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+----------+

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