The bonus being that it exists in english physically. Even with whatever deal is worked out and amount they are asking for, I'll take it :x
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Limited Run Games - Putting digital games into your hands
- Thread starter dallow_bg
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The bonus being that it exists in english physically. Even with whatever deal is worked out and amount they are asking for, I'll take it :x
Would pay. Please give.
LimitedRunGames
Member
The manufacturing difficulties have nothing to do with the quality of the titles. We could think that DARIUSBURST would take three weeks to manufacture (normal turnaround time) and it might actually take six weeks or more due to unforeseen issues at the factory, shipping troubles, or any other number of problems. There's no 100% effective way to communicate delays to customers, so if a delay happens there will always be someone in the dark about it. That person will inevitably end up angry when they don't get their stuff at the original date and our reputation will be tarnished in their mind. Even if we could communicate the delays with 100% effectiveness, there will still be people who believe the delays are due to some kind of incompetence on our part (though they wouldn't be). It's stressful.
mthodmn101
Banned
LimitedRunGames
Member
^ This
Koei is a big company and the only way to make this worth their time is to make the return equal to what they'd get digitally. To do that, the physical price has to be higher. $59.99 is pretty much my highest price for any Vita or PS4 game. I wouldn't feel comfortable asking $69.99 or more on anything that wasn't some kind of collector's edition set.
BomberMouse
Member
What about selling a set? The whole Arland trilogy for $120 or something like that.
Kresnik258
Member
Just read this interview properly. Most interesting part for me:
I know Doug has hinted at it before, but it's gonna be super interesting if they start localizing their own games.
I've already made my first suggestion to him on Twitter - Ukiyo no Roushi. He said himself he wants a new Way of the Samurai game, and it's a Spike Chunsoft title (who they've worked with before on Mystery Chronicle).
Seems to all be falling into place to me...
For a physical release, I'd pay that in a heartbeat.
If it's $50 each, it would be more $150. Add in a box etc. for all 3? Looking closer to $180. I'd still do it.
JGBtypeR
Member
I'll say it for you:
A perfect example is iam8bit's REZ release. They did that as a pre-order and it got delayed badly with the holiday season etc, and people were very mad about it (some probably still are). Notice how they changed their approach to a limited number of basically on-hand games with Hyper Light Drifter.
While I'm coming from a situation of being successful (I've gotten all 11 vita games I wanted fine, including Soldner), I have no problems with how you guys are doing it. A couple times I missed the morning on something, but had no problems getting it that afternoon.
Keep up the great work guys!
I see. I understand where you're coming from, but considering parity for Vita and PS4 games when it comes to how high it can go doesn't seem... Fair? The highest Vita game has been $50, while the highest PS4 one never crossed the $60 line. I don't think it'd be wise to consider releasing $60 Vita titles, people are probably going to feel ripped off.
If only people didn't get mad at delays and were just happy to get the thing... Except I heard other things about the release, too.
Gaijinworks delay things even more. I'll admit it's annoying, but their elaborate localizing/dubbing/UMD factories near-closing, are more of a cause for those delays. In the end, I have all of their releases so far in hand.
ThatsMytrunks
Member
I'm one of the people who's still mad, but the reason is far beyond it being delayed. The Rez release was a misleading budget release. They slapped a bunch more branding on the front, didn't include any kind of booklet, pamphlet, or anything, and a number of users got their discs with the image printed off-set. It was a travesty for an amazing game.
When it's your only option for english physical, it's all you can do. It's all on Japan's side of things for asking for those prices. I'd rather get thing for a higher price, than not get thing at all. It's limited and exclusive. You can technically put any price on the exclusivity alone.
There is this Hardcore Gamer interview that went up, like it's been shared here before.
Am I the only one slightly annoyed how the interviewer handled the Vita subject? "Yeah, it's going to die. It's going to happen pretty soon. It's already happening. It's dead. Why don't people just buy a Switch already?" I feel like people are comparing the Vita and the Switch as apples and apples, but that's not really accurate. I don't see the Switch as the Vita's successor and I know a lot of people who think the same way, so when people try to force that notion, it feels stiff and kinda desperate as the Switch needs to eat the Vita's lunch as its life depended on it.
Am I the only one slightly annoyed how the interviewer handled the Vita subject? "Yeah, it's going to die. It's going to happen pretty soon. It's already happening. It's dead. Why don't people just buy a Switch already?" I feel like people are comparing the Vita and the Switch as apples and apples, but that's not really accurate. I don't see the Switch as the Vita's successor and I know a lot of people who think the same way, so when people try to force that notion, it feels stiff and kinda desperate as the Switch needs to eat the Vita's lunch as its life depended on it.
BomberMouse
Member
I'm saying just sell them together, not need for a special box. Maybe that way they could be sold cheaper while still having a significant margin. The original trilogy is usually discounted and sold as a pack anyway.
sturgboski
Member
Yeah that was my understanding about the reaction to Rez. I mean sure, everyone gets upset when stuff gets delayed. I am still waiting on Summon Nights 6 which I thought was a 2016 release. Heck, if we go bigger, I am waiting on God Wars from NISA which has been delayed I dont know how many times (granted the game has been delayed in Japan as well). Communicating is hard but in this day and age it seems a lot easier when you have emails, this forum, twitter, facebook, and other social media avenues. I am still waiting on Skullgirls and I get information in email and here about what is going on. Conversely, what bothers me more is wanting to purchase a title and missing out because of scarcity rather than it not shipping yet.
But yeah, Rez isnt really a great example of "pre orders and delays are why people are upset" as it was more say the overall quality of what people actually got that I think affected people the most. That discontent was compounded by it being delayed, rather than the delay being the cause of the discontent.
Nope, that's not what I meant at all. Sorry if it comes across that way, but the questions were asked more from a perspective of the Vita only having a year or so left getting regular content, not trying to use the Switch as a shovel to pile dirt into its grave.
Also, for context-
Nobody's trying to force the notion, it's just how it looks like things are going from this perspective. We could be wrong but we'll all know for sure in a year or two.
Summon Nights 6 original date was in Feb. Now it's May.
JGBtypeR
Member
There were people swearing off iam8bit, trying to cancel orders, etc before they even saw what a mess they made of the actual release because it was months late.
I think my Rez disc is fine (it works) and can't see anything but the side of the case, but I do feel for the people expecting to display a foil cover and will acknowledge that is why people are still mad (and the replacement one, while great looking, the whole "manga style" is a joke).
In general though, I think us on team Vita are a lot more forgiving for delays, just as long as it comes out and isn't cancelled we're ecstatic.
LimitedRunGames
Member
It honestly doesn't make any sense that Vita games are cheaper - it's just done on some notion that portable games should be cheaper (like they're inherently less valuable). Vita cartridges cost anywhere from 2x to 3x as much to press as PS4 discs (for Atelier it will be ABOVE the 3x mark). The assumption that they should be less for no reason other than to preserve some antiquated established notion of portable games being cheaper is stupid. It's actually this logic that makes so many companies opt to NOT do physical games on Vita. They know they can't charge enough to justify the extremely high cost of goods. The faster people can get out of this mindset, the better it will be for physical portable games.
LimitedRunGames
Member
You're an exception to the rule and I sincerely wish more people were like you in terms of being proactive about keeping in the loop on the things they bought. You can look no further than any given post on our Facebook or Twitter or Instagram and see that we get a handful of "Any updates on Skullgirls?" thrown at us every day. We pretty much get a daily PayPal dispute regarding the game. If we send emails, I'll get replies to those emails, minutes later, asking for updates on the game that I literally just updated them on mere minutes ago. Keeping people informed about a preorder is a job in and of itself. It's exponentially more work than doing what we're doing and it doesn't really do us many benefits in selling more copies. As someone else mentioned, one of our contemporaries is kind of known for selling preorders and the delays on those haven't done their reputation any favors. They've switched it up for this most recent release, but I don't think that was entirely their choice.
Pellegri Testament
Member
Will be or "would be"? Because "will be" kinda implies you're doing it.
Heh
They have said they have been in talks for a while... Then there's the hint about them releasing two huge titles that would really pull in the niche crowd...FinaruDensetsu
Member
ITT I learned that people REALLY want Atelier games. Are they super good or something? I never tried one on ps3.
Pellegri Testament
Member
I'm sure others have a higher opinion of it than me since I've only played one so far (E&L, while Shallie I have tied to a later preorder), which I thought it was average. I guess at this point it's partially me just wanting to collect them and then wanting to give it more of a chance.
They're a great idea that is constantly held back by too little budget, failure to build on potential, and terrible overall tech. I've got a soft spot in my heart for them, but if you don't have that, they really aren't worth trying for a lot of players.
I've never really understood why people are so hot for LRG to nab them, but given that some came out on Vita but not all did, there is a bonus to getting them from a collector's viewpoint.
Pellegri Testament
Member
I'd say it's mainly because they're one of the few "bigger" Japanese games that never got English physical releases other than for 2 of them. We've gotten most of everything else that's noteworthy, with a few more exceptions being EDF 2017 portable (Xseed didn't work on this one, so maybe there's a chance at some point?), several other Koei Tecmo titles (some got Asian English releases while others didn't) and now the Stranger of Sword City update.
Kresnik258
Member
I mean, I'm heavily biased, but Atelier is one of my favourite series ever. That's because it's earned it though. Totori and Meruru are among my favourite games of all time.
To provide my own input, those games in particular have a fantastic mix of:
- Really enjoyable world exploration
- Interesting character development
- Target-driven gameplay
- A likeable overall plotline
And that's mixed in with some fun turn-based combat and alchemy systems that aren't major parts for me, but I enjoy them.
I think more of the reason that Vita fans are interested in Atelier is twofold:
1. Memory card space is at a premium on Vita and Atelier games are 3GB each. For me, they take up 12GB of my 60GB of space, so that's like 1/5th just on Atelier games (Rorona/Totori/Meruru/Ayesha). I'd appreciate that being freed up.
2. Future-proofing. All the games are PSTV compatible, and although I know you can just buy the PS3 versions, the Vita versions have all the DLC built-in meaning I could play them in 20 years time on a PSTV and get the full experience.
So really, they're a massive deal for me.
Will be or "would be"? Because "will be" kinda implies you're doing it
That's not how I read it, but I love this
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Ah I see I will try my first Atelier game when LRG releases the trilogy then since it seems all but confirmed.
Has Sekai Project ever met any of their target dates, etc.?
LimitedRunGames
Member
Pretty sure I've explained a few times in this thread and in other places about how difficult it is to do "collected" releases. It's not a simple matter of throwing two games on a cartridge and you're done - you have to create a wrapper that launches the games. The games would need to be built with the same SDK as the wrapper and rebuilding with new SDKs is difficult. The work that would have to go into creating a collected build pretty much negates the developers' revenue that they'd make from the release in the first place. If a developer *wants* to do a collected release, I'm not going to be opposed to it - but it's a ton of work that most developers simply don't have the time for. If it was a requirement from us, most developers would just opt to skip a physical release. The barrier to doing a collection is that much higher (it's why SteamWorld doesn't even have a Vita release - the work wasn't worth it versus the potential revenue).
But I thought the developer pretty much announced that they were working with you guys on a Vita release.
And I understand that -- but a 2-disc set for, say, $30 would have been better for all involved.
I don't think that's an unreasonable ask.
Keeping them separate as pieces of software is understandable due to the extra work, but when the extra work just shifts an extra cost of $25 to the customer, it doesn't feel fair.
I feel like a more expensive 2-disc set was a reasonable compromise.
It's an unreasonable ask because it isn't economically viable, is the problem. It's reasonable for a customer to want both games on a single disk, but not possible for the developer to deliver it in any way that doesn't involve taking a financial hit. There's zero bang for developer buck on this.
Sorry, I don't get it.
The MSRP for the Mutant Mudds double pack is $15.
That typically translates to a $25 LRG price.
I'm saying they could charge $30 for a 2-disc set. How does thay involve taking a financial hit?
Again, I am *not* saying they should eat the cost and go through the dev process of putting both games in one disc.
Jesus Carbomb
From Water into Guinness
DariusBurst: LE page is up
https://limitedrungames.com/collect...ted-run-48-dariusburst-cs-ps4-limited-edition
No mention of the Darius Odyssey artbook for either version so I'm guessing it didn't make it into the final product. That's a bit of a bummer if so.
Huge props to the LRG guys for stepping up their packaging game.
https://limitedrungames.com/collect...ted-run-48-dariusburst-cs-ps4-limited-edition
No mention of the Darius Odyssey artbook for either version so I'm guessing it didn't make it into the final product. That's a bit of a bummer if so.
Huge props to the LRG guys for stepping up their packaging game.
Kresnik258
Member
Urggghhhhh D:
I thought this was happening too with the incredibly unsubtle hints from Image & Form.
I was tempted to say "it's been such a long time that maybe it fell through for the exact reasons that Doug listed", but it was only a month-and-a-bit ago that they confirmed it was coming "real soon".
Maybe they're doing two separate releases with LRG. I'd still buy that tbh.
Ruud_Luiten
Member
Weird... it happened to Steamworld collection on WiiU for 25 dollar (physical) Why would the Vita compilation be unreasonable??
WiiU has even less commited indie-fans....
Care to explain?
It's completely reasonable that they felt like creating TWO new launchers (PS4 and Vita) and go through certification again wasn't worth selling 2,800 units each. It's a big ask for a game that Renegade Kid is done with.
Buuuuttttt -- that was not the only option on the table!
Buuuuttttt -- that was not the only option on the table!
Yeah, really glad to see them learning from past mistakes.
Not many companies do!
Ugh. I'm blaming four hours sleep last night for not seeing the "two-disk collection" in the post I responded to. Sorry, I appear to be blind as well as sleepy today.
LimitedRunGames
Member
AFAIK the Japanese version has no artbook and if it does, it is not physical.
LimitedRunGames
Member
Because you're completely, completely, not understanding how expensive Vita cartridges are. If this was just PS4, sure, but it isn't. I'll say it again, Vita cartridges are expensive. We don't make much money on Vita games and we likely never will. If anything we'll make less money as time goes on and costs for the media rise. Rather than charge $50 on Vita and $30 on PS4 - I'd just prefer consistency and parity between the platforms in terms of cost and uniformity.
If we're selling two Vita cartridges for essentially the price of one - we might actually end up making negative money. This is the only financially viable approach on Vita. I realize that the Japanese Gundam game (which is $50) has two Vita cartridges, but keep in mind Namco and a few other big Japanese companies own their own factories for game production so they don't pay nearly as much as the little guys.
The cost of Vita carts is why I can't help but laugh when I hear that people are shocked by how much Switch carts cost to manufacture. It's nothing new - cartridges aren't cheap.
LimitedRunGames
Member
Because Wii U discs are nowhere near as expensive as Vita games and most retailers in the US still stock Wii U games. There's a surprisingly large young playerbase that is still active on the Wii U as parents still tend to buy Nintendo consoles for their youngins. That'll shift down as Switch proliferates - but its the reason a Cars 3 game just got announced for Wii U. As much as it seems dead to hardcore gamers, it's still a thing for younger players and I could see SteamWorld being appealing enough to them for the retail release to be viable.
Outside of our hardcore circle, the Vita is pretty dead in the US. No major retail stores actively stock Vita games outside of GameStop, and even then GameStop barely gives the Vita any space. Most Vita games only sell ~5,000 units at retail and that isn't enough to justify the work that would be required to tie two games together in a launcher for a single product. It's nowhere near as easy as people seem to think.
I think I'm coming off as aggressive when I didn't mean to, so I'll just drop this.
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