-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house
- Thread starter Spoiled Milk
- Start date
- Status
Aaron Strife
Banned
Greigor The Fellhand
Member
I'm laughing at how riled up Sean Hannity is over Wittes. stuff is hilarious.
So the bill is delayed, that means Trump is going to throw another beer and pizza party like he did for the house to try and get everyone to say yes
So the bill is delayed, that means Trump is going to throw another beer and pizza party like he did for the house to try and get everyone to say yes
I can understand pessimism, but this is just silly. If there's one thing that Hill Republicans can nearly uniformly agree on -- not just a majority of their conference, but nearly an entirety of it -- its opposition to Planned Parenthood and any form of support for it. Especially after those O'Keefe videos.
McConnell allowing for PP concessions will cost the bill a hell of a lot more senators than the 1-2 votes it loses while defunding PP.
Trump, being the bloviating idiot that he is, will unintentionally tank the bill with this meeting.
My point in including that is this. They're willing to talk over PP funding. That wasn't even their original objection. Ergo - they're willing to negotiate.
Macho Madness
Member
The bill is not tabled, just delayed. McConnell wants to pass this. There were a lot of headlines that said he "wanted to just hold a vote" and let it live or die based on that. That was always wrong. He wants to pass this, and will fight tooth and nail to get it there.
balladofwindfishes
Member
But like, I look at the PANIC OMG PANIC since last Thursday and see this timeline of magic changing narratives
On Friday/Thursday
- This entire thing is pre-planned to have Collins and Heller vote no, this is over already
"Rand Paul says he won't vote for the bill"
- This entire thing is pre-planned to have Heller and Paul vote no, this is over already
"Paul, Cruz, Lee and Johnson say they won't vote for the bill"
- This entire thing is pre-planned, those four won't even make it the weekend before folding
"Lee and Johnson re-affirm they aren't voting for the bill"
- This entire thing is pre-planned, they're just waiting to make a grand bargain
"Collins says she will not vote for the bill, lives little room for compromise"
- Obviously, since Heller and Collins were the pre-defined no votes
"Rand Paul continues to say he will not vote for the bill and McConnell is ignoring his calls"
- Okay, but they'll obviously work something out, it's all for show
"Portman is lean yes, but nobody is answering his calls, so he might vote no"
- Still, a grand bargain is coming!
"Murkowski now implies she won't vote without more PP funding. Collins with her"
- Okay, so what, they'll turn eventually
"After an all hands on deck meeting, the vote is delayed 2 weeks out"
- This is BAD BAD BAD
The narrative of pessimism has continued to change over the last week to fit the current narrative, despite the obvious signs since Friday that this bill was in serious trouble.
Autodidact
Banned
Yeah, Heller could score some protection for next year, Collins could bolster her bipartisan cred for her next Senate run or even a gubernatorial run next year, and Murkowski can do whatever the fuck she wants because she wins write-ins.
But they're cowards.
Macho Madness
Member
Until they hold a vote and the vote actually fails and they table the bill, pessimism is all that's deserved. You're taking the slimiest people in this country at their word.
Box of Kittens
Banned
I absolutely won't breathe easy on healthcare until and unless Democrats can get control of the House. That having been said
Yup. The "IT'S HAPPENING NOW AND YOU'RE ALL IDIOTS IF YOU THINK THERE ARE ANY OBSTACLES IT'S ALL THEATER" crowd could really stand to admit that they don't know everything. But given their collective response to yesterday's tweet that literally just reported that McConnell was smiling, I'm not expecting humility from them any time soon, just more goal post moving.
Yup. The "IT'S HAPPENING NOW AND YOU'RE ALL IDIOTS IF YOU THINK THERE ARE ANY OBSTACLES IT'S ALL THEATER" crowd could really stand to admit that they don't know everything. But given their collective response to yesterday's tweet that literally just reported that McConnell was smiling, I'm not expecting humility from them any time soon, just more goal post moving.
Yep. The fact that the only thing basically stopping this is 1 or 2 votes shows that pessimism is certainly more realistic than optimism.
Who are you even shouting at? Many of us think that the objections are real, it may not even be coordinated, but that there is still a very REAL chance that those objections fade with minor concessions and/or goading to fall in line at the last minute.
And that hasn't changed.
What? PP + Medicaid have been Collins and Murkowski's biggest concerns from day one. I'm not saying Murkowski's vote can't be bought in the end (again, she ended up voting for the 2015 repeal even after her and Collins' PP amendment was rejected). But McConnell giving in on PP concessions is not something you should be worrying about.
AnotherNils
Member
This is such an easy answer: Because they could be telling you want to hear, jackass
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Hot take: Heller broke the back of bill, if he didn't come out this would've went to plan.
VendettaRed07
Member
Basically
PANIC is the correct attitude to have until we know it fails for sure
Run around with your hair on fire people
All I'm saying was that Collins was a pretty strong no, with tweets that would be difficult to walk back particularly with respect to Medicaid. Now Collins is willing to talk over PP? That is some movement.
That's all I'm saying.
BlastProcessing
Member
But why would Uncle Vladdy lie to us!?
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
god forbid the Democrats pass policies popular with their voters
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/27/republicans-key-repeal-vote-delay-240010
They're gonna rewrite the bill and get a new CBO score.
They're gonna rewrite the bill and get a new CBO score.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I was thinking it was Paul, but yea, there was some legit shock on Friday from Heller's statement.
Did Governor Sandoval just save millions of lives?
oh my god
This isn't getting done until October
Likely. They didn't expect Heller to break ranks.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
I don't think I know anything special, I just don't see what makes the Senate moderates different from the House moderates and why we can expect them to stop the bill while the House didn't.
Don Young voted for the bill even though he has the same constituencies as Murkowski and unlike her will be up for reelection next year instead of in 2022.
whyamihere
Banned
I fundamentally agree with this!
Autodidact
Banned
Governor Sandoval can join the Moderate Darling club.
And he can be my daddy.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Lots of things are popular that aren't good ideas. (Single payer in a vacuum is fine, Single payer as a next step makes zero sense- the way to get to it is to backdoor it via a public option if insurers start pulling out and making it a de facto one.)
I wonder how much damage the "Chicken Little" fundraising and activism approach is going to do long-term. It cannot be healthy.
What if it's PP funding for everything but abortions? Totally possible
VendettaRed07
Member
We literally have to or people will never vote for the party in the numbers we need again.
Everyone said that the numbers weren't there for Trump to win on going as far to the right as he did but.. whoops! Turned out people who never voted before in numbers we haven't seen because he excited them.
If that's what the GOP does going forward we literally don't have a choice other than actually getting out people who want to vote for us in huge numbers instead of placating to a dying center. Hillary may as well have been as liberal as Bernie to most republicans anyway it's not like her more moderate agenda made her more palatable
Why is it so impossible for them to just work with Democrats and ignore the tea party fanatics. You're more likely to get a bill passed that way.
Didn't he veto Medicaid for all?
Didn't he veto Medicaid for all?
VendettaRed07
Member
That doesn't work as a campaign chant.
Even if the numbers aren't there to get single payer done and we need to move with a public option first..
Sell people an exciting idea and attempt to do it.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
This. One need only look over a lot of the replies on the past page to see it demonstrated once again.
Autodidact
Banned
Representatives have to win gerrymandered districts. Senators win whole states, forcing them to be more moderate by structure of their chamber. Freedom Caucus Frank won't lose his seat by passing this bill, but Republican senator Dean Heller, whose state is at least purple if not light blue, will. Even if moderates in the House endanger themselves, they have more cover because of (1) safety in numbers and (2) a certain degree of gerrymandering.
PP already doesn't allocate federal funds toward abortions. Republicans see any kind of funding for PP as support for abortions.
I mean, I'm fairly sure the long view is that it ends in civil war or some other horrible violent outcome.
I am generally inclined to think that progressivism works best incrementally, but I'm in a position of tremendous privilege, so that's easy for me to say. I just don't know what the answer is when the opposition is stacking wins off their volume--->11 strategy, and the Dems are left in the cold. Its a tough one.
That's just wrong. The GOP wants to dismantle the ACA, full-stop. In what universe would the Democrats help them? The Dems would help get a public option off the ground, but they'd never go backwards.
It doesn't repeal Obamacare if they work with dems would be my guess.
They want it gone.
Autodidact
Banned
Moderate Darlings always disappoint you everywhere but the bedroom. Never forget this invaluable life lesson.
VendettaRed07
Member
Because the GOP has more in common with tea party fanatics then Democrats
And every democrat would want the opposite done of what republicans want to do with Healthcare. The differences here are irreconcilable
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
why would Democrats work on this with them and what would they possibly work on? The ACA is already a conservative healthcare plan, making it more conservative will only mean making things worse for people. Democrats have nothing to gain from working with Republicans on this.
Besides the Freedom Caucus is 31 members and there's only 18 blue dogs in the House, the Tea Party is more numerous than Democrats that want bipartisan street cred.
balladofwindfishes
Member
The senate bill wasn't even a repeal of Obamacare. Just a weird repeal of Medicaid with some awkward band aids stuck onto the ACA
What the fuck? Did anyone just see Chris Stewart on MSNBC? He's taking a much softer stance than I've ever seen from the hard right dummies. "We want to just make healthcare more affordable, Obamacare had some success, we just want to improve it" was basically the gist of it.
I'm more concerned about a short term fix to shore up the insurance markets. A bailout basically. Obamacare IS in a death spiral in some states. That has to be looked at. I know they want full repeal but this is the law we've got right now and it needs shoring up. Sigh. It's just frustrating to see this shit play out.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked