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Sonic Mania Denuvo DRM cracked
- Thread starter Crimsonclaw111
- Start date
Not when we're paying for our games and just want them to work without issue, short and long-term.
It will look like bullshit if you're ignoring the effects anti-piracy measures can have on consumers.
It's Sonic Colors that Jim Sterling thinks is a bad game, not Generations, he even says "those who forgot that Sonic Generations happened proclaim that Sonic is back" in the video, implying that Generations is good.
I wonder. SEGA Europe is handling the PR for the PC version of Sonic Mania (being them the ones mentioning the update for PC Mania on twitter and facebook), it's also not the first game handled by SEGA Europe to get Denuvo (Total War Warhammer, Football Manager 17).
Aaron Webber also linked to SEGA Europe support page for people to share their feedback, even mentioning to share feedback on DRM.
Not sure if you misread or are agreeing with what I said, but they are the same thing. I'm doing that when I get out of work tonight. I was planning in getting this in a few months if people started modding it (already bought on Switch), but I won't keep it if it has Denuvo.
Yes, I'm agreeing with you. I should probably have put a "Yeah, " or something in front of my sentence
So, here's a funny story about the DRM situation with this game - the new patch that enables offline play after launching it once actually makes the DRM situation for this game worse in a way. But wait, doesn't it loosen the always-online requirement from before? Well, yes, but here's the problem. It turns out my post on this yesterday was right:
In the first release of the game, the always-online check was being enforced by just not letting you play if Steam is in offline mode. What this also means is that it wasn't phoning home to Denuvo for the offline check at all. You could just bypass this with a modified steam_api.dll that always tells the game Steam is online, and therefore play all you want without having to "activate" it with Denuvo. (Before anyone says this post is telling people how to pirate, this is not enough to enable piracy even on that version. You still have to own the game on Steam and have Steam running for this.)
This no longer works with the patched version, as far as I can tell. It now phones home to Denuvo properly and requires activation to play offline, even with a modded steam_api.dll.
In the first release of the game, the always-online check was being enforced by just not letting you play if Steam is in offline mode. What this also means is that it wasn't phoning home to Denuvo for the offline check at all. You could just bypass this with a modified steam_api.dll that always tells the game Steam is online, and therefore play all you want without having to "activate" it with Denuvo. (Before anyone says this post is telling people how to pirate, this is not enough to enable piracy even on that version. You still have to own the game on Steam and have Steam running for this.)
This no longer works with the patched version, as far as I can tell. It now phones home to Denuvo properly and requires activation to play offline, even with a modded steam_api.dll.
Just so I understand, are you really accusing people here of pirating games?
I would assume incompetence instead of malice. I really doubt they intentionally gave out copies of Sonic 1 to prevent people claiming refunds on Sonic Mania after they implemented DRM.
I'm also not convinced that the delay was to implement DRM rather than to secure more console sales or get people to "double-dip". It surely can't take two weeks to implement.
I suppose it depends on whether you care about the success of the PC as a platform that publishers are willing to continue releasing games on, or whether you care more about being able to play Sonic Mania.
Just look at what happened with WB Games after the Arkham Knight fiasco. They took the wrong message from that and drastically cut back on their PC releases instead of ensuring that their PC ports were high quality.
Either way the PC sales drop, but at least you're not stacking the odds against PC by propping up the console sales and making them question whether they need to support PC at all.
Being anti-DRM is not pro-piracy. Piracy will happen regardless of DRM, it only ends up restricting what legitimate customers can do - and you could argue that this is intentional.
Why allow your game to be playable 5-10 years from now, when you can sell people an HD Remaster instead?
Schwarzbier
Member
I'm pretty sure he's talked about it on Podquisition, saying he enjoyed it. I don't know what episode, but I vividly remember it.
Red Arremer
Member
My guess is because the devs are European, maybe?
Wowfunhappy
Member
Lol, wait, so the initial release of the game was piratable? I can't check torrent websites while at work, but that's hilarious if true.
GabeTheGrouch76
Member
I just remembered that during my playthrough of Mania yesterday, there was at least four, five occurrences when the game without warning forced out of its full screen mode and the window was minimized for seemingly no reason. Guess I know what was the culprit of that now.
Have submitted a refund request via the help.steampowered.com page
It lists my purchase date as August 11th though, and did have a little message about how "Refunds outside of the 14 day window are typically not permitted", so will have to wait and see what happens.
How long do refunds normally take? Have never tried to refund through Steam before, I always thought it was instant.
It lists my purchase date as August 11th though, and did have a little message about how "Refunds outside of the 14 day window are typically not permitted", so will have to wait and see what happens.
How long do refunds normally take? Have never tried to refund through Steam before, I always thought it was instant.
Glass Shark
Banned
.
It really is crazy though. Generations looks absolutely amazing in 4K. I have no idea why people forget this or transformed ever happened with the Sonic name. Even Sonic 4 ep. 2 is pretty damn good. Never tried Colors, but some people seem to like it.
I didn't totally hate Heroes either.
tekken 7 was cracked after 4 days, iirc
I think so, but we don't know if Denuvo is improving anything either. Also, that tag lol. You dirty man you.
Glass Shark
Banned
.
Not pirateable as far as I can tell, it's just that the Steam offline mode check can be bypassed to play offline and there's no activation required from Denuvo's side (like there is with the official offline-mode implementation in today's patch). It still checks your Steam account to make sure you own the game.
newtypepilot
Member
Steam is already a form of DRM. LOL Sega pls
Sneaking a highly despised, invasive DRM into a single player game is downright malicious.
Sneaking a highly despised, invasive DRM into a single player game is downright malicious.
Yeah, wish I had just pre-ordered the PS4 Collector's Edition. Now I'm just gonna have deal with it, or crack my game at some point . . . A game I fucking paid for!
Game companies can release games drm free on steam.
nkarafo
Member
Wasn't RE7 cracked the next day?
Update on the refund situation: I've been told by one person that they were successful in receiving a refund following the submission of a support ticket, so it does indeed appear the Sonic 1 gift grant is causing the refund request system to malfunction. If you haven't used the gift copy of Sonic 1 and would like a refund, find your pre-order in your purchase history, click it, click Sonic Mania, and finally click "I have a question about this purchase". With any luck, your request will also be approved.
Note that if you've clocked up 2+ hours of playtime in the Genesis/MegaDrive emulator in the past, this may throw a spanner into the works. If that describes you, best mention in your ticket that your playtime was accrued prior to Sonic 1 being added to pre-orders. I'm waiting to hear back from Valve regarding the refund eligibility of those who now have overlapping Genesis/MegaDrive emulator licences.
Note that if you've clocked up 2+ hours of playtime in the Genesis/MegaDrive emulator in the past, this may throw a spanner into the works. If that describes you, best mention in your ticket that your playtime was accrued prior to Sonic 1 being added to pre-orders. I'm waiting to hear back from Valve regarding the refund eligibility of those who now have overlapping Genesis/MegaDrive emulator licences.
Not according to Crack Watch.
Saoshyant
Member
I don't think they ever removed Denuvo from Total Warhammer or the latest Football Manager iteration, even though those came out a long time ago and their protections have likely been broken by now (like every other Denuvo game after a while). I imagine they won't remove it from Mania, either, even years down the line, because it takes development time and money to do so. I hope I'm wrong, though!
Tizoc
Member
I already posted that the RiME devs removed it after it got cracked on their game which was in a couple of weeks at the most. So if a small dev could do that, then it shouldn't be too much of an issue for SEGA EU at least
CecilRousso
Member
Doesn't it cost money to keep using it in the games as well?
Saoshyant
Member
While I don't really know the answer for this, logic dictates that's not a thing or otherwise there would be far, far more games dropping out Denuvo some months after their release than the few that did to date. Like, the suits in charge aren't entirely moronic as some people may think: they understand DRM is at best an effective temporary measure and wouldn't want to keep paying for something after it's been defeated.
witchedwiz
Member
denuvo?
ok i'll get it LATER for dirt cheap..
not a fan of supporting this choice
ok i'll get it LATER for dirt cheap..
not a fan of supporting this choice
Nitpicker_Red
Member
Facts:
-Denuvo hampers unofficial modding (modifying the executable is not possible)
-Denuvo requires online activation (periodically or at every hardware change) Edit: apparently the "periodic" check is the DRM protected by Denuvo, not Denuvo itself
-Denuvo is not future-proof (servers failure will make games unplayable)
-Games don't work on virtual machines anymore (Wine for Linux and MacOS unofficial support impossible) Edit: apparently that's fixed, thanks madjoki
Source: https://whyisdenuvobad.github.io/, https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/6y7bbh/sonic_manias_denuvo_has_been_cracked_in_just/dml7wog/
Debunked:
-Denuvo doesn't repeatedly rewrite on your SSD (Tests showing that it's not Denuvo, Denuvo also explicitly denies, indication that it's exclusive to DA:I, other claims are unsourced.)
-RiME developers don't think Denuvo was the thing responsible for their performance issues (they removed it because it got cracked, which means keeping it was useless). Edit: yet some people claim they saw performance increases after the patch that removed it
-Based on this old source, Denuvo doesn't take away from development resources/time since the profiling is done by Denuvo and it's a post-compilation step (for a 20€ game, costs 1~2% of total sales. Less so for pricier games.).
-According to Sega, Denuvo had nothing to do with Sonic Mania's always logged requirement
Quotes:
http://www.pcgamer.com/sonic-mania-on-steam-requires-an-internet-connection-to-play/
«[...] We've found the problem within the game code that was stopping people playing offline and it's been corrected by the dev team. [...] »
«We've looked into the DRM complaints and can confirm this was not the cause of the problem. [...]»
«We've looked into the DRM complaints and can confirm this was not the cause of the problem. [...]»
https://www.greybox.com/rime/fr/forum/topic/1575/
«The only thing that Denuvo is currently doing for us is checking to make certain that Steam's (or Origin's) DRM is still attached to the game. There is a small performance hit associated with this, but at this time we do not believe it is causing the problems that are currently being reported. We might be wrong. We're monitoring the situation.
It has always been our intention to remove Denuvo in the event of a crack.[...]»
It has always been our intention to remove Denuvo in the event of a crack.[...]»
Based on the "Integration Workflow" part of the old source, removing Denuvo from the game just means recompiling the game while NOT doing the last step to include it. More games should follow that idea and remove Denuvo once it gets cracked.
Denuvo marketing team (so obviously biaised to make it look simple):
«Integration workflow into a game:
The protection is a post-compiler step and does not need any source code modifications on your end (only three compiler / linker settings must be enabled in VS).
We have an online encryption service which is available as SaaS (hosted in the AWS).
Step 1: Provide us (access to) a (running) build with three compiler / linker settings enabled: /pdb /map /fixed:no; the Steam app ID and Steam private key
Step 2: We create and run our performance profiler and play the game collecting performance uncritical functions
Step 3: We setup the game project on the protection server and send a cmd line tool to the dev team with instructions how to embed it to the build process
Step 4: When running the protection our engine decompiles the exe, parses the collected functions from step 2, injects the security code and recompiles the executable (and creates an updated pdb for debugging)
We usually see this workflow done in 1-2 weeks but suggest to start integrating it 1 month prior goldmaster date to have enough time and focus – also for testing.»
The protection is a post-compiler step and does not need any source code modifications on your end (only three compiler / linker settings must be enabled in VS).
We have an online encryption service which is available as SaaS (hosted in the AWS).
Step 1: Provide us (access to) a (running) build with three compiler / linker settings enabled: /pdb /map /fixed:no; the Steam app ID and Steam private key
Step 2: We create and run our performance profiler and play the game collecting performance uncritical functions
Step 3: We setup the game project on the protection server and send a cmd line tool to the dev team with instructions how to embed it to the build process
Step 4: When running the protection our engine decompiles the exe, parses the collected functions from step 2, injects the security code and recompiles the executable (and creates an updated pdb for debugging)
We usually see this workflow done in 1-2 weeks but suggest to start integrating it 1 month prior goldmaster date to have enough time and focus – also for testing.»
If this is still accurate Denuvo has a flat fee model, and a per-game-sold model. It's interesting to see how much it costs, and why Publisher still think its implementation is justified, money-wise, and ignore the obvious PR drawback of including Denuvo.
«We offer a wide range of business models to cover different scenarios intended by you as a publisher / developer. I'm also happy to discuss tailoring something reflecting your needs.
Official ordering and invoicing is done by our partner Sony, we do the technical fulfillment.
The standard pricing models:
Lump sum model:
AAA title (bigger 500k units on PC): 100.000 EUR
AA title (smaller 500k units on PC): 50.000 EUR
Indie title (less than 100k units on PC): 10.000 EUR
Or
Per unit pricing:
2.500 EUR setup fee. 0,15 EUR per unit reported monthly based on Steam,... owners.»
Edit: here are graphs showing the minimum cost for sales under 1m (easier to read) http://imgur.com/a/bRtysOfficial ordering and invoicing is done by our partner Sony, we do the technical fulfillment.
The standard pricing models:
Lump sum model:
AAA title (bigger 500k units on PC): 100.000 EUR
AA title (smaller 500k units on PC): 50.000 EUR
Indie title (less than 100k units on PC): 10.000 EUR
Or
Per unit pricing:
2.500 EUR setup fee. 0,15 EUR per unit reported monthly based on Steam,... owners.»
I'm sorry if this post comes off as weird but those last days I did some research and have been itching to post some results in a relevant place.
Wine supports Denuvo since early this year (they fixed bug that caused denuvo games to crash on start). Even Sonic Mania works with it.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
So yeah, I'm gonna do a follow up email and explain to them that DRM sucks ass.
This really stinks because I went and got the Collector's Edition of Sonic Mania for Steam. Even pre-ordered it on Steam when I realized it wouldn't get the CE here on release day, and then canceled for a refund and pre-ordered the PS4 version when the delay news hit.
Now I activated the code a week ago and obviously, white it performs just fine, this just sucks the joy out of would have been something I put serious time into.
The WHOLE reason I bought the PC version was for preservation sake. To use the controller I want to use. Already writing a letter to those that Aaron mentioned on that tweet! This is just unacceptable. And downright shady! But, lesson learned. I'll keep this in mind the next time they have a PC release I want. I'll wait before giving them the benefit of the doubt from now on! And this goes for any Steam release (why I usually go with GOG when it's an option).
Now I activated the code a week ago and obviously, white it performs just fine, this just sucks the joy out of would have been something I put serious time into.
The WHOLE reason I bought the PC version was for preservation sake. To use the controller I want to use. Already writing a letter to those that Aaron mentioned on that tweet! This is just unacceptable. And downright shady! But, lesson learned. I'll keep this in mind the next time they have a PC release I want. I'll wait before giving them the benefit of the doubt from now on! And this goes for any Steam release (why I usually go with GOG when it's an option).
Update #2: I've sought further clarification regarding pre-existing playtime in the emulator as Valve's response to that part wasn't entirely clear, however I was told in no uncertain terms that the gift copy of Sonic 1 isn't a factor at all (i.e. contrary to what I assumed, it doesn't matter if you've sent it to a friend or traded it away).
CecilRousso
Member
Really interesting that the time for implementing denuvo
Another thing is, if they have to pay to Denuvo for every steam owner, removing Denuvo after two weeks they'll have to pay forever for every latter customer for a non-existant service. wtf.
Yes
They try to find less intensive functions to put their logic there, but I'm pretty sure big games are always doing things under the hood.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Hoover1979
Neo Member
Well, after that sneaky move by SEGA I'm expecting Denuvo on all their future PC titles, even though it does NOT prevent piracy, but in fact encourages piracy, as the legit customer is bogged down with unwanted crapware, while the pirates get a superior version for free.
I guess when they realise their PC games will get pirated 10,000% more because of Denuvo: Digital Cancer, rather than removing Denovo and no longer using it, SEGA will most likely make/publish their games for console only, and abandon the PC entirely. :'(
SEGA really shot themselves in the foot (or head) with this one.
#SegaWillPutThemselvesOutOfBusinessWithDenuvo
I guess when they realise their PC games will get pirated 10,000% more because of Denuvo: Digital Cancer, rather than removing Denovo and no longer using it, SEGA will most likely make/publish their games for console only, and abandon the PC entirely. :'(
SEGA really shot themselves in the foot (or head) with this one.
#SegaWillPutThemselvesOutOfBusinessWithDenuvo
This seems like a terrible way to do this evaluation, game sales tend to me extremely front loaded so the average game sales will be higher for the extremely short period till the game is cracked.
The only way this comparison can be done fairly is by offering a drm filled choice and a drm free option at the same time in the same store or since that wont happen just maybe compare to similar games with and without drm to see the total sales over a period(if their prices points are comparable)
Would just like to reiterate some advice from my Steam review:
For anyone who preordered from Bundle Stars and having trouble refunding, take a look at their Refund Policy in their Terms of Service (Start from "12. REFUND POLICY" at https://www.bundlestars.com/en/terms ), especially if you're in the EU and/or UK.
Cite whatever laws that you feel is appropriate to you in your country or state, i.e. if you're in the UK, you can cite the Consumer Right Act 2015 since SEGA/BundleStars not disclosing Denuvo before sale violates it.
Also, if it was a preorder, cite to them that your point of purchase should start when the game was released (29 August), even if you redeemed your code way back in May, June, etc.
Don't know about other licensed third-party sellers but this worked for me with Bundle Stars, so hopefully it works for anyone else affected.
Also - https://twitter.com/GOGcom/status/902833119434346496
For anyone who preordered from Bundle Stars and having trouble refunding, take a look at their Refund Policy in their Terms of Service (Start from "12. REFUND POLICY" at https://www.bundlestars.com/en/terms ), especially if you're in the EU and/or UK.
Cite whatever laws that you feel is appropriate to you in your country or state, i.e. if you're in the UK, you can cite the Consumer Right Act 2015 since SEGA/BundleStars not disclosing Denuvo before sale violates it.
Also, if it was a preorder, cite to them that your point of purchase should start when the game was released (29 August), even if you redeemed your code way back in May, June, etc.
Don't know about other licensed third-party sellers but this worked for me with Bundle Stars, so hopefully it works for anyone else affected.
Also - https://twitter.com/GOGcom/status/902833119434346496
Tizoc
Member
I will double dip and gladly make a giveaway of a gog drm free ver if that is to ever happen
Azure Dream
Member
So, Life is Strange: Before the Storm's Denuvo has been cracked. In about 8 hours.
Hm.
Hm.