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Pokemon's #1 problem is its utterly insipid writing

H

Huge Succeeded

Banned
Hey, you bought the new Pokemon game? That means you're fucking stupid.

No, that's not my opinion. That's Game Freak's opinion of you. You bought Pokemon, so you must be a goddamn dunce, and so for the next hundred or so hours our game's dialogue is going to talk waaaay the fuck down to you, while making as little sense as humanly possible. There will not be a single human character in our game who talks like a human. They'll all talk like Steve from Blues Clues just dropped shitloads of LSD into his eye and fell into a ball pit full of Pokemon plushies.

I am not exaggerating. As an adult, this is what playing Pokemon feels like. And I get it, I totally get it. Before you shitpost, I know that Pokemon is a children's game. Just like Adventure Time and Regular Show are children's TV shows. Just like the Lego Movie and Up and Toy Story 3 are children's movies. Why do I bring those properties up? Because they prove that you CAN write dialogue and scenarios for children that aren't depressingly stupid and condescending, shit that doesn't assume the intellect of the viewer is at perfect zero. You can entertain children without making it clear to them that you think they're dumb as shit. That's a thing! But not in Game Freak's world.

edit: Whoa, I hit the Post Thread button WAY too prematurely by accident. Fuck. I'm poring through LPs for examples right now, I do plan on finishing this post, lmao.

This is you being invited to your first contest. This is some random dialogue heard in passing between two NPCs. This is you visiting a restaurant (the trainer dialogue is what gets me, lol. "The world of food is really tough...") This is you beating your rival. (which in particular isn't as bad as I remembered it being tbh) but this all takes place in a single city in the game, and is representative of the level of writing on show here. This writing isn't just simple, it comes off like it was literally written by crazy people at times. It's not necessarily a problem that the writing is simple, but most of the time it comes off as just plain random and nonsensical, and not really in a cute or funny way, more like in a poor translation sort of way.
 
M

mcrommert

Banned
Uh oh

Perhaps not everything in life needs to be high quality writing...sometimes stupid is fun (unless it is insultingly stupid [transformers])
 
B

bigkrev

Member
Huge Succeeded said:
As an adult
Click to expand...

The games are made for children. They even say on the packaging "a basic knowledge of reading is required to enjoy this game" because they market the game at an age group that might not be old enough to read yet!

The shows you mention, Adventure time and Regular show, are both rated TV-PG, and not TV Y7 or TV G like Pokemon is
 
H

Huge Succeeded

Banned
Well, not having the examples up in the OP already doomed the thread to typical nintendo thread fare
JoeM86 said:
You also don't need to insult people who bought the game just because they buy a game that you find "insipid".
Click to expand...

For what it's worth I buy these games day one? I'm not calling anyone stupid.
 
L

lazygecko

Member
Unless the games are being written in English from the start these days, I doubt it's as practical to get Adventure Time tier writing out of something translated from Japanese.
 
J

JoeM86

Member
Pokémon is designed to be accessible and understandable by all ages, including the very young.

There's a difference between movies and interactive stories and with a narrative as large as Pokémon, it has to be kept simple.

You also don't need to insult people who bought the game just because they buy a game that you find "insipid".
 
J

jooey

The Motorcycle That Wouldn't Slow Down
watch some kids' anime or garden-variety tokusatsu shows and see the true nature of the beast you're up against
 
TwoDurans

TwoDurans

"Never said I wasn't a hypocrite."
1000x1000px-LL-6a1ec4e4_lighten-up-francis-o.gif
 
B

backflip10019

Member
Yep, 100%. The terrible "we're all friends and love each other" bullshit from X/Y completely turned me off from the game. I just tried to get through it as quickly as possible because the writing and story were so bad.
 
M

massoluk

Banned
The writing is simple so you wouldn't waste more than 3 minutes on a cutscene in a handheld game and just move on to capturing the next pokemon
 
S

SilverLunar

Member
I don't want more dialogue in Pokemon.
In my opinion it is fine and unique as is, if only they get rid of the "bad guys" subplot that doesn't really need to be there.
 
K

kaioshade

Member
Huge Succeeded said:
My post isn't even halfway done and you couldn't read it?
Click to expand...

No, i understood. the point is its aimed at children. Not preteen children, but like grade school children.

And unfortunately, a lot of children are not of the highest intellectual caliber. they write to the lowest common denominator so the game can be enjoyed by all.
 
B

Bulzeeb

Member
honnestly, I never though of playing pokemon for the story, I always played the game to put some monster to beat the crap out of other people monsters, however, I do agree that the formula has been pretty stale in the later iterations and it feels like playing a recolor of the same game I played years ago

btw, I admit to not care nor have time to go into the pokemon breeding thing or the competitive play and that is where most of the complexity of later games is located
 
L

LPride

Banned
Huge Succeeded said:
Hey, you bought the new Pokemon game? That means you're fucking stupid.

No, that's not my opinion. That's Game Freak's opinion of you. You bought Pokemon, so you must be a goddamn dunce, and so for the next hundred or so hours our game's dialogue is going to talk waaaay the fuck down to you, while making as little sense as humanly possible. There will not be a single human character in our game who talks like a human. They'll all talk like Steve from Blues Clues just dropped shitloads of LSD into his eye and fell into a ball pit full of Pokemon plushies.

I am not exaggerating. As an adult, this is what playing Pokemon feels like. And I get it, I totally get it. Before you shitpost, I know that Pokemon is a children's game. Just like Adventure Time and Regular Show are children's TV shows. Just like the Lego Movie and Up and Toy Story 3 are children's movies. Why do I bring those properties up? Because they prove that you CAN write dialogue and scenarios for children that aren't depressingly stupid and condescending, shit that doesn't assume the intellect of the viewer is at perfect zero. You can entertain children without making it clear to them that you think they're dumb as shit. That's a thing! But not in Game Freak's world.

edit: Whoa, I hit the Post Thread button WAY too prematurely by accident. Fuck. I'm poring through LPs for examples right now, I do plan on finishing this post, lmao.
Click to expand...

Pokemon is a game for children, but you addressed this already. Heres a followup: Pokemon doesnt NEED good writing. Its not insulting for it to have bad writing.

Pokemon needs the following things: Pokemon to collect, special moves to use, and a complicated element chart to memorize. It has these things. It excels at what it does. Do you really need Prof Oak to give you 40 pages of dialouge before taking your damn starter pokemon?
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
Well, no one would ever claim that Pokémon is a well-written series, but that's kinda not what you're there for.

It has much better gameplay than Adventure Time, that's for sure.
 
W

WiiredShawn

Member
There are moments in Pokemon games (at least older ones) where you can feel the adult writer pressing against the demands of a "kid's game," with little jokes that might go over the average kid's head. There was also some occasionally "harsher" themes in, say, Gold or Silver, like cutting off Slowpoke tails and selling them on the black market. I mean, that's not exactly "kid friendly."

I don't think smart writing is beyond Pokemon, but it's an audience problem. Pokemon is aimed at children, but played by far more than children. Game Freak's stance is probably just that adults will still play the games even if they're written to be accessible to kids, but writing them for adult players would likely alienate a lot of the kid players.
 
L

LuciusAxelrod

Member
Not every game needs good writing. Pokémon has focused heavily on character design and RPG mechanics. Who has time for story when there's grinding to be done?
 
R

RockTurtle

Member
I mean, all ages includes kids who might not have the cognitive development to understand teenage level writing.

you need simple words, simple concepts. it sucks for the more adult fanbase, but anything otherwise would only cater to that specific fanbase, while confusing a major one or making it hard to follow.
 
J

javac

Member
Pokemon isn't just aimed at kids, it's aimed at very young kids, the kind that are still learning to read and write and is made with the hopes of aiding them.
 
C

Crayolan

Member
The writing is pretty bleh, but that's not close to it's #1 problem. It's probably because I've been playing the games for so goddamn long but I find the typical trash dialogue pretty easy to tune out. The game babying me in a gameplay sense is much more noticeable and obnoxious.
 
T

talkingood

Member
I don't know if it's Pokémon's biggest problem, but I agree that the writing is terrible even by video game standards, so I mostly ignore it. Still, it is off-putting how all of the NPCs behave like they've been lobotomized.

I also very much disagree with those who believe the writing is terrible because it's for kids—as the OP mentioned, it is very much possible to write for kids without talking down to them.
 
Fbh

Fbh

Member
I think a formula that has grown boring and the lack of challenge are its number one problems. But I get your point

kaioshade said:
The game is marketed at children?
Click to expand...

As are Pixard and Ghibli movies, and The Last Airbender or Batman the animated series.
Being marketed at kids shouldn't be an excuse to have boring stories and bad writing

Even the pokemon TV show (aimed at the same demographic) has better writing and more interesting plots than the movie. And that show is bad
 
F

Fractology

Member
I think it's even more inexcusable because it's Pokemon. You know, the series and TV show that has been around for nearly 2 decades at this point? You'd think even the children would be familiar enough with it for it to try to elevate itself a little bit. It makes a little sense for it to over explain everything and pander when it's the first in the series, but not when they've made so many that they ran out of colors and precious gems to name all of the sequels.

I think a game like Fantasy Life does a great job of not talking down to the player and feels fun to read even as an adult. But here on GAF, get ready for the defense force OP.
 
F

FStop7

Banned
I'm ready for the Zack Snyder dark and gritty Pokemon reboot.

"WHY DID YOU SAY 'SQUIRTLE' WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?"
 
S

SilverLunar

Member
I really like the slice of life aspect to pokemon that doesn't really have a big bad final boss.
It does made it one of a kind Rpg series when it debuted.
 
J

Jeffrey

Member
Pokemon has always been pretty weird if you think about it for a second.


Is it a japanese thing that the mom of the house lives in the kitchen 24/7? She doesn't even have a goddamn bedroom. I assume dad took it with him after the divorce.
 
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