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Digital Foundry PS4 Pro Launch Coverage Begins

J

Jonboy

Member
Apparently there's a staggered embargo and they can post their unboxing today. It's a 30 minute video so I'll update this post if it's significantly more than an unboxing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ghA7yrc8so

Update 1:
Leadbetter says not to get your hopes up regarding SATA III due to the "copying bandwidth" being really low. If SATA II is getting hobbled like that (20 mb/sec), then he would expect SATA III to be hobbled as well.

Update 2:
Inuhanyou said:
I watched this already about an hour ago. The most interesting this Richard speaks on is something Cerny brought up called "Geometry upscale rendering".

He said that Cerny said this Geometry rendering technique was very low cost computationally, could be implemented in only several days compared to a few weeks for checkerboard, and virtually eliminated most jaggies.

This is done by the ID buffer and the depth buffer being disassociated from the frame buffer. Essentially the frame buffer still runs at 1080p, but the ID buffer and the depth buffers run at 4K, which essentially gives you the geometry coverage of 4K at 1080p very easily. Now the difference being that because the framebuffer is still 1080p, you don't get the pixel resolution boost and clarity that obviously comes with a framebuffer increase, but it seems like a very useful technique for those developers who want to do the bare minimum at 1080p to provide minimal jaggies compared to the original 1080p PS4 game,yet still have tons of headroom to increase graphical fidelity with the more powerful GPU.
Click to expand...

Update 3:
Per Cerny, the new GPU is doubling the standard PS4 GPU. Backward compatibility is accomplished by essentially turning off half of the compute units. They talk about Xbox One S and how the higher clock CPU gave some games a small framerate bump. Leadbetter says he's pretty sure there won't be a difference here with PS4 Pro because it's something Sony was very adamant about. Fundamental difference in approach between Sony and MS. Xbox is now a platform (in his opinion), whereas Sony is still wanting to maintain console generations...and PS4 Pro is not a new generation.
Inuhanyou said:
Also, Richard seems adamant that there will be zero differences in games played on PS4 and PS4Pro without a patch, even though according to his notes, Cerny told him that the only thing they did to emulate the original PS4, was to downclock the GPU and CPU to base PS4 clock, and shut off half of the GPU.

Which still doesn't account for the actual architecture differences in the GPU and the PS4 GPU giving better results by default in GPU bound scenarios, let alone speaking of the bandwidth increase that was never actually spoken on.

I think we might have some surprises in store that haven't been talked about, but we'll see.
Click to expand...

Update 4:
"Ship has sailed" on people expecting better framerates at every game in 1080p. Seems they're going more in the direction of 30fps with better visuals. Leadbetter says what PS4 Pro does for 1080p is a good question and that you essentially get more "1080p goodness" and supersampling. Tomb Raider and Knack showed big improvements with supersampling. Mostly though, it's about 4k, according to Leadbetter. (EDIT: To be clear here, he's not saying games will never have a better framerate. It's more of "in general," the idea of the PS4 Pro is more focused on better visuals than framerate. As we already know though with Tomb Raider, devs are free to do whatever they like, which may result in higher framerate modes).
 
S

shinobi602

Member
vNiGQue.gif
 
H

Hanmik

Member
an unboxing video..? from DF:..? are they measuring weight of the box..? how many FPS the box has?..

I hate these kinds of "embargoes".. just let the media speak about the product..
 
I

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
I watched this already about an hour ago. The most interesting thing Richard speaks on is something Cerny brought up called "Geometry upscale rendering".

He said that Cerny said this Geometry rendering technique was very low cost computationally, could be implemented in only several days compared to a few weeks for checkerboard, and virtually eliminated most jaggies.

This is done by the ID buffer and the depth buffer being disassociated from the frame buffer. Essentially the frame buffer still runs at 1080p, but the ID buffer and the depth buffers run at 4K, which essentially gives you the geometry coverage of 4K at 1080p very easily. Now the difference being that because the framebuffer is still 1080p, you don't get the pixel resolution boost and clarity that obviously comes with a framebuffer increase, but it seems like a very useful technique for those developers who want to do the bare minimum at 1080p to provide minimal jaggies compared to the original 1080p PS4 game,yet still have tons of headroom to increase graphical fidelity with the more powerful GPU.
 
J

Jonboy

Member
Inuhanyou said:
I watched this already about an hour ago. The most interesting this Richard speaks on is something Cerny brought up called "Geometry upscale rendering".

He said that Cerny said this Geometry rendering technique was very low cost computationally, could be implemented in only several days compared to a few weeks for checkerboard, and virtually eliminated most jaggies.

This is done by the ID buffer and the depth buffer being disassociated from the frame buffer. Essentially the frame buffer still runs at 1080p, but the ID buffer and the depth buffers run at 4K, which essentially gives you the geometry coverage of 4K at 1080p very easily. Now the difference being that because the framebuffer is still 1080p, you don't get the pixel resolution boost and clarity that obviously comes with a framebuffer increase, but it seems like a very useful technique for those developers who want to do the bare minimum at 1080p to provide minimal jaggies compared to the original 1080p PS4 game,yet still have tons of headroom to increase graphical fidelity with the more powerful GPU.
Click to expand...

Good info. I'll add to the OP.
 
I

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Also, Richard seems adamant that there will be zero differences in games played on PS4 and PS4Pro without a patch, even though according to his notes, Cerny told him that the only thing they did to emulate the original PS4, was to downclock the GPU and CPU to base PS4 clock, and shut off half of the GPU.

Which still doesn't account for the actual architecture differences in the GPU and the PS4 GPU giving better results by default in GPU bound scenarios, let alone speaking of the bandwidth increase that was never actually spoken on.

I think we might have some surprises in store that haven't been talked about, but we'll see.
 
J

Jonboy

Member
Inuhanyou said:
Also, Richard seems adamant that there will be zero differences in games played on PS4 and PS4Pro without a patch, even though according to his notes, Cerny told him that the only thing they did to emulate the original PS4, was to downclock the GPU and CPU to base PS4 clock, and shut off half of the GPU.

Which still doesn't account for the actual architecture differences in the GPU and the PS4 GPU giving better results by default in GPU bound scenarios, let alone speaking of the bandwidth increase that was never actually spoken on.

I think we might have some surprises in store that haven't been talked about, but we'll see.
Click to expand...

Yeah that part was interesting. The other guy in the video seemed to think there would definitely be some differences, but Leadbetter immediately disagreed.
 
BigEmil

BigEmil

Junior Member
So now theres 3 different efficient 4k techniques?
- Checkboarding
- Temporal Injection (think that's what it was called used by Ratchet and Clank)
- Geometry Upscale Rendering

Much better than standard brute force 4k just a waste of potential free resources that could be used to enhance elsewhere whether more or better visual enhancements plus better performance etc.
Xbox is now a platform (in his opinion), whereas Sony is still wanting to maintain console generations...and PS4 Pro is not a new generation.
Click to expand...
Nice, I'm tempted by the Pro now
 
G

Gitaroo

Member
Inuhanyou said:
Also, Richard seems adamant that there will be zero differences in games played on PS4 and PS4Pro without a patch, even though according to his notes, Cerny told him that the only thing they did to emulate the original PS4, was to downclock the GPU and CPU to base PS4 clock, and shut off half of the GPU.

Which still doesn't account for the actual architecture differences in the GPU and the PS4 GPU giving better results by default in GPU bound scenarios, let alone speaking of the bandwidth increase that was never actually spoken on.

I think we might have some surprises in store that haven't been talked about, but we'll see.
Click to expand...

Yeah, was just thinking the other day if they leave the ram at the higher clock speed that will provide more bandwidth to for the unpatched games and shouldnt break the emulation. Games that slows down when there are a lot of alpha effects sound runs smooth.
 
I

icespide

Banned
Inuhanyou said:
Also, Richard seems adamant that there will be zero differences in games played on PS4 and PS4Pro without a patch, even though according to his notes, Cerny told him that the only thing they did to emulate the original PS4, was to downclock the GPU and CPU to base PS4 clock, and shut off half of the GPU.

Which still doesn't account for the actual architecture differences in the GPU and the PS4 GPU giving better results by default in GPU bound scenarios, let alone speaking of the bandwidth increase that was never actually spoken on.

I think we might have some surprises in store that haven't been talked about, but we'll see.
Click to expand...
yeah might be Xbox One S level differences after all
 
Fbh

Fbh

Member
Thx for the info.

Definitely sounds like a wait and see for me. If changes are mostly limited to resolution I think I can wait, specially now that HDR is also supported on the regular ps4.

Will wait for game impression. I'm still hoping for some frame rate upgrades. If not big then at least make games hit their target. Locked 30 FPS for the Witcher 3 or Deus Ex and something closer to 60fps for battlefield 1 would be nice
 
E

eFKac

Member
Did Richard have a bad day filming this? There were a couple of times when he was oozing passive aggressiveness lol :-D

Interesting video though, especially about the upscaling methods.

Hopefully we'll get a lot of comparison videos at launch.
 
P

PackAPunchedMick

Member
eFKac said:
Did Richard have a bad day filming this? There were a couple of times when he was oozing passive aggressiveness lol :-D

Interesting video though, especially about the upscaling methods.

Hopefully we'll get a lot of comparison videos at launch.
Click to expand...

It's Leadbetters shtick, he has downplayed everything Playstation since the dawn of time.
 
O

onQ123

Member
Richard has a problem with saying upscaling when it's not upscaling. that's pretty weird that he just continue to say upscaling.

by the way it still seems that it's 2 GPUs configured as one GPU.
 
V

Venom.

Member
I'm not buying a 4K tv anytime soon so I want a PS4 Pro just for the improvements to 1080p gaming. I'm looking forward to new games offering this.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
onQ123 said:
Richard has a problem with saying upscaling when it's not upscaling. that's pretty weird that he just continue to say upscaling.

by the way it still seems that it's 2 GPUs configured as one GPU.
Click to expand...
Well, there is usually still upscaling happening. Many games will checkerboard up to 1800p, for instance, and then upscale to 4K from there.
 
H

Haines

Banned
He sounded very positive about 4k so that's exciting bc HDR is a given.

My only worry will be making sure the correct settings are in place on my tv and ps4pro
 
D

dallow_bg

nods at old men
Update 1:
Leadbetter says not to get your hopes up regarding SATA III due to the "copying bandwidth" being really low. If SATA II is getting hobbled like that (20 mb/sec), then he would expect SATA III to be hobbled as well.
Click to expand...

Fuuuuuuuuu
Oh well. Kinda expected it. We'll see what happens when full details are available.
 
Hatty

Hatty

Member
Jonboy said:
Update 4:
"Ship has sailed" on people expecting better framerates at every game in 1080p. Seems they're going more in the direction of 30fps with better visuals. Leadbetter says what PS4 Pro does for 1080p is a good question and that you essentially get more "1080p goodness" and supersampling. Tomb Raider and Knack showed big improvements with supersampling. Mostly though, it's about 4k, according to Leadbetter.
Click to expand...
Interest officially lost
 
G

Garrett Hawke

Member
I wish sony would go a little more premium with their unboxing feel. I still remember unboxing the OG XB1 even though I know longer have it, because it felt like much more of an event.
 
L

LelouchZero

Member
xx4EvD4.jpg


In the video 9:29 and onwards.

Richard said he asked Mark Cerny if they upclocked one half of the GPU and Cerny said that they haven't increased the clock-speed when it runs unpatched games, Richard also said that he asked them if they even tested with the higher clocks and then said "apparently not".


I'd also love to know how many ROPs the PS4 Pro's GPU has.
 
vpance

vpance

Member
onQ123 said:
Richard has a problem with saying upscaling when it's not upscaling. that's pretty weird that he just continue to say upscaling.

by the way it still seems that it's 2 GPUs configured as one GPU.
Click to expand...

Need to do an xray to see how separate they are.
 
V

Venom.

Member
Jonboy said:
Update 4:
"Ship has sailed" on people expecting better framerates at every game in 1080p. Seems they're going more in the direction of 30fps with better visuals. Leadbetter says what PS4 Pro does for 1080p is a good question and that you essentially get more "1080p goodness" and supersampling. Tomb Raider and Knack showed big improvements with supersampling. Mostly though, it's about 4k, according to Leadbetter.
Click to expand...

Hatty said:
Interest officially lost
Click to expand...

Doesn't the graphic options offered with Nioh contradicts this? Super-sampled 1080p @ 30fps and 1080p @ 60fps. Okay it is only one game but it demonstrates that developers can offer boosted frame rate options if there is a demand.
 
K

Karspankey

Banned
Venom. said:
But doesn't the graphic options offered with Nioh contradicts this? Super-sampled 1080p @ 30fps and 1080p @ 60fps. Okay it is only one game but it demonstrates that developers can do this if there is a demand.
Click to expand...

Nioh already had the option for 30fps or 60fps on the standard PS4.
 
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