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Jim Ryan: Developers will Aim for the Lowest Common Denominator, not forcing parity

jbug617

Banned
Lost in his comments about cross-play yesterday was the comments about the differences between developers making PS4 Pro and Xbox One X
”I'm not going to go into the detail of what's embedded into individual contracts with publishing partners. What I would do is cast our minds back to the PS3 generation, where we had on paper more impressive specifications than our competition, and in some areas by quite a considerable margin.

”Now, that didn't play out the way we had anticipated it would – and this is nothing to do with co-marketing deals, this is just general developer and publisher dynamics.

”What happened was that developers, maybe at the behest of publishers, developed up to the lowest common denominator and stopped there. And in very few cases took advantage of the additional horsepower of the PS3.

”Now, I'm a big believer of learning lessons from history. History doesn't always repeat itself. But if you're a publisher of video games, that is a perfectly commercially rational approach for you to take," he said. ”Because you only do one set of work. You don't do one set of work to get up to one level and then a different amount of work and consequently may need to go further."

He was asked after that about the Xbox One X being the best version of the games Sony has marketing deals with and if there is pressure for parity. He said it's up to the developers but they are not forcing parity.
EG: Where you have a marketing deal with a game, maybe Destiny 2, Call of Duty or Battlefield, are you encouraging or telling the publishers, do not make the Xbox One X version significantly better than the PS4 Pro version? Is that something Sony is telling these publishers?

Jim Ryan: Not to my knowledge. Take the Destiny deal. The Destiny deal was actually done in February 2013, right? We hadn't launched PS4. I might be wrong because great minds are at work in far-flung corners of Tokyo and San Mateo, but I don't think anybody even thought of PS4 Pro at this stage.

So, I think you're trying to see some sort of nefarious platform-holder activity where likely none exists.

EG: Fair enough! If that's the case, that's the case. But the Xbox One X is a more powerful console than the PS4 Pro. It's very difficult to argue with the specs. And Microsoft is making the point quite hard - and they did this throughout their conference - that there is no technical reason why a game that comes out on both those platforms shouldn't look and perform better on Xbox One X. Isn't that comparison a problem for you?

Jim Ryan: Well, we'll see when they launch in six months' time. The number of partnerships, and yes they are big titles, I won't dispute that, it's small. There are a handful. There will be hundreds of games published this year and those games, market forces will prevail. If a developer or publisher wants to take advantage of the supposed power of the X, they will do that. If they don't, they won't.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-06-14-the-big-interview-sonys-jim-ryan
 

Spades

Member
What happened was that developers, maybe at the behest of publishers, developed up to the lowest common denominator and stopped there. And in very few cases took advantage of the additional horsepower of the PS3.

So, why make the Pro in the first place? This guy is an idiot.
 

flkraven

Member
I'm sure this thread will be filled with people jumping down his throat for this comment in the same way that the Phil "True 4K" Spencer thread blew up...
 
So, why make the Pro in the first place? This guy is an idiot.
Money, 4K, "future-proofing", etc.

Honestly, if you look at how PS4 Pro support has been so far, it doesn't look like he was too far off. Devs aren't really pushing for PS4 Pro, and hopefully now that both manufacturers have 4K machines, they'll be supported

Hell, it looks like it took X1X to get The Witcher 3 support on board.
 
I can only hope that developers slowly phase out the older generations sooner so the equivalent of Destiny for the PS5 isn't being held back by hardware that belonged in a mid-tier laptop in 2011 in 2020-2021.
 

LAA

Member
Can't really say that's true though when Pro support is happening already. That and this is the start of an iterative console cycle, which hasn't really happened before, so seems a little unfair to compare to PS3/360 era.
 
Right, it wasn't because the PS3 had such an exotic architecture making optimization costly and a pain... no it was those darn developers not sucking up to Sony.

What a load of bollocks.
 

Loris146

Member
By his own logic, developers develop "up to the lowest common denominator and stopped there", so there would be no need for a Pro.

So there is no need for PS4? He is simply saying that devs will develop game around the base console ( Xbox One ) and then bump res / some small details on PS4 / Pro and XB1X.

Anyway i agree with you that Ryan is a terrible PR.
 
I ask that same question too ... if a person wants 4k gaming at 60fps the person already owns a mega pc and run it on 5k and 90fps
Except you can't play Playstation 4 exclusives on "mega pc." They aren't doing the same thing Microsoft is doing with all of their major games.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
This is a dumb thing to say when we know devs made games for PS4 that they then had to lower the resolution or specs of for the Xbox One. Clearly what he is saying isn't the full truth.
 
So, why make the Pro in the first place? This guy is an idiot.

That's the whole reason they're utilizing the checkerboard stuff. It's an incremental week or two of work for the team to leverage the extra horsepower.

That's a world of difference from what they were trying to do with the PS3's extra horsepower.

E: A lotttt of people missing the nuance in his comments.
 

mcrommert

Banned
Uh so if you follow this logic devs won't support the pro fully because ps4\

Edit: Also on the ps3 stuff...the reason ps3 ports looked like ass wasn't the lowest common denominator...it was because it was a pig to dev for

Also how do you explain the ports that were worse

Can someone take away his mic
 

jmdajr

Member
This is a dumb thing to say when we know devs made games for PS4 that they then had to lower the resolution or specs of for the Xbox One. Clearly what he is saying isn't the full truth.

I asked this earlier. Have any PS4 titles been held back by Xbox One? The launch consoles.

I feel like no. All the Xbox One titles have just run at lower resolutions. And that was the battle from day 1. Xbox One can't do true 1080p.
 

btags

Member
I feel like this has changed though since ps4 and xbone use basically the exact same architecture (excluding memory differences).
 

Jamm3r

Banned
A more humble respond from Jim unlike last week lol.

Microsoft may have the best console for multiplats and thats fine, but I don't understand why all these interviewers feel the need to ask Sony if they're "nervous" when they're sitting at the top, with no signs of slowing down or anyone catching up
 

kinoki

Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
Smaller, more flexible teams, will always put in that extra work. Big developers that need to test tech will put in that extra work. Developers working on annual (or bi-annual) series, will not. Right now studios are shutting down due to low sales, no way riskier projects get extra funding for optimising for 4 different specs and PC, on top of that.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jim Ryan spinning things this E3 like crazy, who has been giving this guy a microphone?

Cell was a bitch to take advantage of and the PS3 was weaker than 360 in basically every other way besides the CPU which had its own set of issues.

No developer was expected to take advantage of PS3's SPU's and automatically come out with better results as that was impossible

This kind of talk is pure garbage and revisionist history
 

jmdajr

Member
He doesn't know the PS3 was a bitch to develop for? How odd?

Yeah didn't want to go into that. The Xbox 360 had the far better video card but poopier CPU. Cell was a nightmare though.

This time it's not apples and oranges. It's red delicious vs honey crisp. There is no debate about what should run better on what. There is no reason anyone has to hold back anything if they don't want to.
 
72561485.jpg
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I love my boy Jim he just doesnt give a shit. He is a real good guy.

When he reads the stuff about him on the internet he is like

JimRyan.gif
 
So, why make the Pro in the first place? This guy is an idiot.
Terrible first post.


If they advertised the Pro as an improved PS4 rather than a 4K machine I think opinion would be different.


The Pro has tangible improvements that are worth it. SATA3 support, 3 USB ports, 1080p60fps streaming, 1080p video recording, longer recording, faster load times, better Wi-Fi chip, easily accessible fan for cleaning, more stable framerates for non-Pro enhanced games, improved RemotePlay quality, etc.
 

AHA-Lambda

Member
So, why make the Pro in the first place? This guy is an idiot.

Really?? What an overly harsh way of looking at things.

The Pa4 Pro and XB1X are like the iPhone 7 Plus to the standard iPhone 7.
It's a little nicer, has some extra features but no one in their right mind is going to make things substantially different between the two in terms of the user experience.

At the end of the day all PS4 & XB1 games must run on their respective base models, so no one would ever dare make the experiences so substantially different, as what would be the point? All you'd really end up doing then is pissing off the majority of users who are playing with the base models.
And if devs/publishers ever do start doing something like that, then at that point you are as well having a new generation.

This is something that some people seem to keep forgetting which I've noticed in topics like this - The PS4 Pro is not a new console, and there are some who seem to keep giving it an inflated sense of purpose.
 

spectator

Member
if a person wants 4k gaming at 60fps the person already owns a mega pc and run it on 5k and 90fps

Just because there are things console fans prioritize over sheer performance doesn't mean they aren't interested in performance when they can have it without compromising those other things.
 

Dynomutt

Member
The messaging from Sony and Microsoft executives has been all sorts of misguided this week. Just...dumb.

Not really. I may not agree with it but it's corp talk. People need to remember not all of these guys are Gaffers with an ideal perspective on how the industry should be.

Most are shrewd business men who have a supply chain/sigma 6 understanding of the industry so their responses are just that.

Now it make be laugh when people imply he or any executive is an idiot. A lot these dudes are grinders and straights workers stop the drive by quotes like we know they personally or catching feelings because of a gaming decision is kinda immature.

If you want to post bring some substance with it.

With that said...where's Jack at?
 
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