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Jim Ryan: Developers will Aim for the Lowest Common Denominator, not forcing parity
- Thread starter jbug617
- Start date
benicillin
Banned
I mean he's right. The games we're going to see on the X aren't going to be dramatically different than on the PS4 Pro or PS4 or even X1. There'll be lots of little things, I think, that add up to a better overall experience, but nothing too crazy.
SEGAvangelist
Member
I think they made a really long agreement initially. It probably extends to sequels.
Real_Madrid
Member
I'm sure Jim Ryan is good at his job etc, but come on. Just use someone like Mark Cerny, Andrew House, Shawn Layden or Shu as your spokesman.
This guy just doesn't understand PR.
This guy just doesn't understand PR.
Salt, PR etc.
Exactly the point I made.
Salty Rice
Member
Mark Cerny
Complicated
Banned
E3 2017. When PlayStation executive Jim Ryan uses Xbox console warrior arguments from 2013 to explain why nobody should buy anything but a Ps4 slim (or Xbox One S if it's cheaper). What in the world is going on.
They probably made a multi game deal for Destiny in 2013, like they do with CoD.
Ghost Slayer
Member
Lock this guy in the office during E3 please Sony
Or to follow it further, no reason to expect advantages of the PS4 over the standard XB1 Which is obviously silly. I think he's over-reaching when the underlying point should just be "our contracts don't dictate graphics performance on other platforms."
LukasTaves
Member
That's revisionist history if I ever saw it.
And on the point of Destiny, there's likely not an strict enforcement of parity, probably just a deal preventing the game to have any exclusive feature/content on xbox in general (not sure if 60fps would apply, likely not, nor resolution)
RedlineRonin
Member
Yup. Not sure if /s or not, but you're right.
It's like no one even read the DF write up when Pro came out.
Cerny talks at length about how they made it easy to up rez stuff with checkerboarding etc so that devs won't spend excessive time developing for Pro, presumably because they learned their lesson from Cell on PS3.
I think this entire conversation is a function of that notion. If it's easy for devs of multiplats to port checkerboarding work or dynamic rez or whatever from One X to Pro, you'll see scalable results where One X outperforms.
If it's a ton more work to do a custom solution for each one, you'll see Jim's "lower common denominator" theory play out.
Savantcore
Unconfirmed Member
Now hang on, he's saying that no one is forcing them to use the extra power, not that the extra power isn't worthwhile. First- and third-party developers have been taking advantage of the extra power and that's great, but all he is saying is that most developers probably won't bother, which is true.
Ryan says a lot of shit but I don't really see the problem with this.
Ryan says a lot of shit but I don't really see the problem with this.
Fallout-with-swords
Banned
Well they force devs to have a Pro mode so not really.
LukasTaves
Member
SprachBrooks
Member
The only defensible way of justifying the Pro is that Sony have their own studios that allow them to take advantage of the more powerful hardware. But that works under a host of presuppositionsones that do not justify purchasing the console.
The concern is here that the PS4 version of the game will be updated for Pro and they won't do anything for X, leaving it with the Xbox One version.
However following the logic of what he just said they will make games for the lowest common denomination - Xbox One and not adjust for Pro...
Jest Chillin
Member
The marketing deal extends to multiple games. Meaning the details of that contract were set in stone before the PS4 Pro and X Box One X were even conceptualized.
So he's saying, it doesn't even make sense that Sony would included language in the marketing contract that says Bungie must always make sure that the Sony versions of the games always be the standard of performance, and only in the "console" market.
The PC version being uncapped frame rate and higher resolution is more than enough evidence that the marketing deal has nothing to do with the X Box One X being 30fps. As with most business deals that don't have the details explicitly leaked to the public, people are pulling stuff out of their ass rather than believe that their preferred ultra mighty brand isn't as ultra mighty as they want to believe.
Liliana Eileen
Member
Jim Ryan needs to stop talking. Embarrassing for Sony.
SprachBrooks
Member
Do they? Didn't Prey release a Pro patch until a few weeks after release? I mean yes, in that instance they still have forced the developers...but I'm not so sure. And really, what do they mean by Pro support really? What thresholds do the developers have to meet to satisfy Sony's conditions?
KingdomHeartsFan
Member
Sony needs to duct tape this guys mouth.
Guys, seriously?
He's talking about graphics features, not performance.
A dev will develop a game so that it can run decently on the lowest spec in target. Then everything else gets a better-performing version.
But very rarely devs go back and add in better textures \ more models \ different kinds of VFX and lighting \ etc if they're supported only by a portion of their target.
It makes perfect sense, and PS4 pro isn't supposed to be the main PS4 machine - it's supposed to be the one for people who actually care about performance, which - if the last 25 years of development weren't clear enough - isn't really a priority for anyone.
Believe it or not, but i doubt sony\MS execs actually see much value in a 900p v 1080p situation.
He's talking about graphics features, not performance.
A dev will develop a game so that it can run decently on the lowest spec in target. Then everything else gets a better-performing version.
But very rarely devs go back and add in better textures \ more models \ different kinds of VFX and lighting \ etc if they're supported only by a portion of their target.
It makes perfect sense, and PS4 pro isn't supposed to be the main PS4 machine - it's supposed to be the one for people who actually care about performance, which - if the last 25 years of development weren't clear enough - isn't really a priority for anyone.
Believe it or not, but i doubt sony\MS execs actually see much value in a 900p v 1080p situation.
Pro mode only mandates 1080p Res + same or greater performance than PS4 - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...ion-4k-neo-and-the-original-ps4-will-co-exist
So in reality they are not really forcing much in the way of enhancements.
Norse
Member
Exactly the first thought I had when I read the thread title.lol.....i second that "idiot" title.
ToysAndMoreClub
Member
I'm on board with Jim Ryan. He gives me hope that my Nintendo Switch will receive every single Triple AAA title available since the devs will be shooting for its specs anyways.
Fallout-with-swords
Banned
I'm sure Sony is willing to work with devs if there are exceptions or delays but there is a rule that every game after sometime in October needs to have a Pro Support.
Which if devs are already adding pro support they may not go out of their way to add a bunch of additional things for Scorpio. Though they have been touting how quick it is to get games ported to the X so who knows. One thing about the PS3 was that it was hard to develop for so if it's easier to upgrade stuff on X beyond the work they are required to do for the Pro then we might see bigger gaps.
Jest Chillin
Member
Because people will buy it simply because it's better hardware. Just like you see with Apple products. Or pretty much any tech gadgets in general. Everything is made to work on the Base version while the Premium version just gives extra bells and whistles.
The Pro (and X Box One X) are not made for everyone to upgrade. They're made for the Enthusiast early adopters with disposable income who always want to be on the bleeding edge, even if the net gain is marginal.
I agree with you. Look at the wide range of effort regarding Ps4 Pro enhancements. There are some that don't bother, some that are huge enhancements, but most somewhere inbetween.
BlackLagoon
Member
He is right on the money when it comes to the Blu-Ray drive though. Pretty much no cross-platform game ever made much use of the extra space.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Theres no denying it, but so far Ark.....running at 60fps 1080p isn't something to write home about.
Despite the specs the difference needs to be seen which MS failed to differentiate it from Xbox One let alone PS4/ Pro
We need more like for likes which will come, but so far the XOX is just a Xbox One Pro, and their biggest thing is true 4k which currently Pro actually has more of at the moment which is ironic.
staticneuron
Member
That is actually mandated by Sony. The PS4 pro is not considered a separate console so game has to work on PS4 first.
And in the face of all the snarky comments here you would image there are like no games outside of first party that does not support the pro. Since we know that isn't true, are some posters still gonna show their stripes on this?
Chill Penguin
Member
Jim Ryan comes off as so unlikeable. A lot liked Mattrick/Mehdi from the Xbone launch.
Herp Derpington
Member
Neither did PC games. Besides the slow read times of BD hurt it more than MS sticking with DVD.
Also this guy is a PR master if I've ever seen one. In their eyes developers were expected to just roll over and take whatever Sony gave them with the PS3. The fact that they had a competitor who made an easier to develop for platform was a massive oversight on Sony's part and they paid dearly for it. Not to mention he's full of shit with the whole power delta. The cell might have been more capable but it was a stupid design and they had a weak gpu and less efficient ram set up. Overall the 360 was the more powerful machine consistency-wise and developers took to it. Same as the PS4.
He really needs to have his talking points evaluated before he speaks.
So now Sony execs are searching for a way to tell Playstation fans that PS4 Pro is superior.
It is so SAD.
People just enjoy the Fucking Games.
Besides this battle was started by SONY EXECS the day that Pro was unveiled (strongest current console bs).
In reality PS4 Pro never never NEVER had a single chance to defeat Xbox One X.
And 6 always be superior to 4.
Pro is business.
X IS ART.
It is so SAD.
People just enjoy the Fucking Games.
Besides this battle was started by SONY EXECS the day that Pro was unveiled (strongest current console bs).
In reality PS4 Pro never never NEVER had a single chance to defeat Xbox One X.
And 6 always be superior to 4.
Pro is business.
X IS ART.
This guy isn't doing Sony any favors. Casuals and console warrior types on his side won't care but I see a lot of backlash building within industry/enthusiast circles and I'm not even reading many Sony threads. It seems like Sony had a lot of goodwill coming off the last couple of years with PS4 and they are burning through it quickly over a matter of weeks. Between this, the crossplay fiasco, and the lackluster conference they seem to be coming out of e3 worse off. It probably won't affect sales but it could hurt their public image if they keep shitting on others just because their perch is high enough. Now was the perfect time to bring console players together with a big crossplay initiative considering how unlikely it was to have Nintendo on board in the first place. Now they are seemingly doing this just to spite others or retain any advantages they have. It just looks bad, whether or not it has any effect remains to be seen. But this guy makes them come off as sore winners which is never a good look.
Tripolygon
Banned
No, there is literally no statement in that interview that suggest what you are saying. Read it again.
AcademicSaucer
Member
The futureproofing argument for the Pro and the X is some bullshit, the CPU is so behind that when Xbox Two and PS5 happen in a couple years they aren't gonna be able to keep up.
Jest Chillin
Member
"Support" needs to be quantified. I don't own a Pro, so I haven't kept up with the per-game details.. but at launch, at lot of the "support" was simply faster loading right? And since then, the type of support varies from dev to dev and game to game. So, it would seem that it's at each Devs discretion, with some devs opting not to add any extra support at all.
Then you have to parse between games that were already released, where we're talking about patching support in.... against games in the middle of production when Pro came about... against games going into production after Pro's specs were well known to Devs.
Now there's definitely something to be said about the lowest common denominator theory during the 360 vs PS3 gen having to do with the Cell and all the baggage that came with it, but I don't think there's solid evidence so far with Pro support that completely nullifies the theory.
zenspider
Member
He means the lowest common denominator is the Pro. Why work to get the upgraded performace on par with Pro, and then again for the difference between Pro and 1X
but I think maybe you already knew that.
I think XBX will have a lot of game options come launch simply because PS4 Pro has had a whole year to get this 4k stuff rolling. So it's good in that sense. How much better don't know.
I hope all this PRO holding back XBX is just nonsense.
He said the opposite, actually
That devs always target for the weakest console so enjoy your slim and never buy a pro, you're already being bottlenecked by launch xbone anyway
GiantBombGamer
Member
This dude should go into politics. The mental gymnastics he goes through to spin things is like watching congress speak.
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