• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Diablo 3, Is It Salvageable?

I

IHaveCandy

Banned
I recently got back into Diablo 3. My account was actually hacked during my absence, but I was lucky since the hacker seemed to get locked out while he had my stash full of legendaries. I used the loot and was able to finally beat Inferno, which I'm sure they've nerfed quite a bit already since launch. Once I beat it, I had no desire to play again. What point is there now? Me and a few guys killed Diablo in under a minute. Is this game salvageable? What can Blizzard do to revitalize it for people not playing with the intention to farm? When is PvP coming? Any word on expansions? I feel like I finally got that badass character I wanted when I started playing this game, but now the game is too easy and dull to bother playing again. And why on Earth does the Paragon leveling only increase your Magic and Gold finding?! Just more grind bait for farmers.
 
U

Ultimatum

Banned
I think it is salvageable, but can't see it happening. Release an expansion pack that fixes everything for free, and maybe Blizzard could save their failing image

Zzoram said:
I'm pretty sure PvP is already in the game and was added in the latest patch.
Click to expand...

Probably the most bare bones pvp mode I've ever seen
 
L

Luthos

Member
The itemization and the ways to farm in the game just seemed so jacked, I'm not sure it can be. Like with the way your main stat afffects DPS, it's so integrated into the way items are balanced.

It just wasn't any fun to farm/play in the endgame.
 
W

water1111

Banned
What's with the widespread hacking, I have 2 battle-net accounts and both are locked down due to "irregular access" or some BS like that.

Is Blizzard security run by a bunch of monkeys or what?
 
L

Loofy

Member
Blizzard needs to take that mapworks feature from Torchlight 2 and incorporate Monster power.

ie.
Moria
6 levels
Monster Power 4(cant be changed)
Boss Battle - Balrog
 
C

Chromie

Banned
10 million copies sold. I don't think Blizzard is in a hurry to salvage anything. It's unfortunate the PS3/4 will give them more sells.
 
G

Grief.exe

Member
Chromie said:
10 million copies sold. I don't think Blizzard is in a hurry to salvage anything. It's unfortunate the PS3/4 will give them more sells.
Click to expand...

You tend to believe that PC gamers are among the better consumers.

Not in this case.

Its truly unfortunate.
 
Alex

Alex

Member
It's troubled areas are already fixed in part with the latest work, but I agree that it needs an expansion to take alternative itemization and deeper crafting to a new level. They seem to have admitted their mistakes though, and Blizzard is pretty good about following up on heavy reiteration on anything they feel is a detriment to the design. The only problem would be following it up with something even worse, WoW has been the poster child of this lately.

Still, even as is, I don't think the game is even remotely poor in any way, especially with the post-launch support. The combat alone completely fucking junks everything else in the genre to such an absurd degree and on the whole it's the best overall dungeon hack since Titan Quest (<3) by a mile for my tastes, even with the launch fizzle.

I think it'll be in a good position for that expansion, I probably won't fiddle with it too much until then, though. I've been more tinkering with Path of Exile, which has been pretty sweet, but I agree with a lot of of the qualms of the less... troubled portions of the fanbase about some of it's terribly archaic elements and general cludge. They are absolutely wasting smart parts of their F2P setup as well, in doing so.

Of course any sins of D3 and PoE are very easily forgiven compared to the peoples champion, the one, the only Torchlight II. The supposed savior of the genre that was promptly forgotten in record time when it turned out to be a complete pile of shit. This is mean, but I like picking on TLII, it is so completely misguided and fudged.

Probably the most bare bones pvp mode I've ever seen
Click to expand...

Agree, and it shouldn't have even happened. Game does not need PvP, especially in a traditional setup. The only way I could ever see PvP being even remotely palatable in a game like this would be to outright crib from Demon's Souls and do world invasion and even then I don't think it'd be worth it, waste of development time.
 
I

IHaveCandy

Banned
Alex said:
It's troubled areas are already fixed in part with the latest work, but I agree that it needs an expansion to take alternative itemization and deeper crafting to a new level. They seem to have admitted their mistakes though, and Blizzard is pretty good about following up on heavy reiteration on anything they feel is a detriment to the design. The only problem would be following it up with something even worse, WoW has been the poster child of this lately.

Still, even as is, I don't think the game is even remotely poor in any way, especially with the post-launch support. The combat alone completely fucking junks everything else in the genre to such an absurd degree and on the whole it's the best overall dungeon hack since Titan Quest (<3) by a mile for my tastes, even with the launch fizzle.

I think it'll be in a good position for that expansion, I probably won't fiddle with it too much until then, though. I've been more tinkering with Path of Exile, which has been pretty sweet, but I agree with a lot of of the qualms of the less... troubled portions of the fanbase about some of it's terribly archaic elements and general cludge. They are absolutely wasting smart parts of their F2P setup as well, in doing so.

Of course any sins of D3 and PoE are very easily forgiven compared to the peoples champion, the one, the only Torchlight II. The supposed savior of the genre that was promptly forgotten in record time when it turned out to be a complete pile of shit. This is mean, but I like picking on TLII, it is so completely misguided and fudged.



Agree, and it shouldn't have even happened. Game does not need PvP, especially in a traditional setup. The only way I could ever see PvP being even remotely palatable in a game like this would be to outright crib from Demon's Souls and do world invasion and even then I don't think it'd be worth it, waste of development time.
Click to expand...

What is so great about Diablo 3's combat? I only played as a Demon Hunter. All I ended up doing the whole time was either fortifying myself with healing sentries and shadow fog, or kiting with caltrops. I felt like I was getting to the fun part, but then I beat it and the fun part never came.
 
Z

zoukka

Member
The console version.

Offline play. No AH (pleeeeeease!) and local co-op. If these happen, I will actually play this fucking game again... on a console lol.
 
A

AgentOtaku

Member
zoukka said:
The console version.

Offline play. No AH (pleeeeeease!) and local co-op. If these happen, I will actually play this fucking game again... on a console lol.
Click to expand...

The same

No AH
Offline Play
Solid framerate + 720p (PS3 version mind you) - I mention the framerate because it's fucking terrible in XBLA Torchlight

and yeah, I'm in
 
SRTtoZ

SRTtoZ

Member
Diablo 3 is great now. Its a completely different game than it was in the opening week and for the better. Yes its very easy now but thats not the point, farming for days endlessly is the point and thats 10000x better than it was.
 
S

Svafnir

Member
The new systems have helped a lot; Uber Bosses, Monster Power and Paragon Levels are all a big step up from launch content. They also realize problems with the auction house and are taking steps to get away from the "pay to win" feeling" some of the best gear in the game is only available through crafting and the crafting materials are only obtained by actually playing the game. Plus with being able to play on anywhere from Monster Power 0-10 and still get these crafting items, it's very accessible to starting players. Yet the higher monster power rewards stronger players through better chances at items and what not.

Currently the PvP system is super bare bones just like Diablo 2 was, but of course they will be adding organized PvP at some point.
 
A

Axspell

Neo Member
Nothing a good dollop of post-release content couldn't fix, though at this point the console version is looking better and better every day.
 
N

Nokterian

Member
Zzoram said:
I'm pretty sure PvP is already in the game and was added in the latest patch.
Click to expand...

No,it is not in the game,because they where not feeling it about PvP how it was. And it went back to the drawing board. Yes just fun PvP is back to the drawing board since they thought it was not cool enough or better is just bonkers.
 
S

Synth_floyd

Banned
I don't think so. The character customization and itemization systems are broken messes. The actual feel of combat is nice though, but clicky clicky combat gets boring if you don't have a purpose for it, like getting good loot or building a character. There's also no skill at all to the combat. It's just a gear check, combined with using some common sense to pick your skills. I guess if you find skinner boxes enjoyable then Diablo 3 is yet another game with a skinner box system to keep you occupied.
 
S

Svafnir

Member
Nokterian said:
No,it is not in the game,because they where not feeling it about PvP how it was. And it went back to the drawing board. Yes just fun PvP is back to the drawing board since they thought it was not cool enough or better is just bonkers.
Click to expand...

I might be misreading what you saying, yes they delayed deathmatch and other modes. However "just for fun" PvP is already in the game.
 
S

Svafnir

Member
Synth_floyd said:
I don't think so. The character customization and itemization systems are broken messes. The actual feel of combat is nice though, but clicky clicky combat gets boring if you don't have a purpose for it, like getting good loot or building a character. There's also no skill at all to the combat. It's just a gear check, combined with using some common sense to pick your skills. I guess if you find skinner boxes enjoyable then Diablo 3 is yet another game with a skinner box system to keep you occupied.
Click to expand...

These are both things Travis Day has been talking about a lot. Apparently this week we are getting a giant blog update on their plans for a better itemization system. The improved legendaries they did a while back was an ok step. But they have already admitted they want more "game changing" legendaries where you build your characters around them.

I know a lot of the hate from the launch is still around but Blizzard has been doing a very good job admitting the faults of the game and taking the right steps. I have full faith in Blizzard.
 
I

IHaveCandy

Banned
Svafnir said:
The new systems have helped a lot; Uber Bosses, Monster Power and Paragon Levels are all a big step up from launch content. They also realize problems with the auction house and are taking steps to get away from the "pay to win" feeling" some of the best gear in the game is only available through crafting and the crafting materials are only obtained by actually playing the game. Plus with being able to play on anywhere from Monster Power 0-10 and still get these crafting items, it's very accessible to starting players. Yet the higher monster power rewards stronger players through better chances at items and what not.

Currently the PvP system is super bare bones just like Diablo 2 was, but of course they will be adding organized PvP at some point.
Click to expand...

What exactly am I expected to do at this point? I've beaten it on Inferno. I feel my character is already ridiculously equipped. The only other thing I could do is farm for the slight chance of finding something even better so that I will be a little bit stronger. But I'm already strong enough to kill Diablo on Inferno in less than a minute. What other gains could possibly make the game more fun?
 
Alex

Alex

Member
IHaveCandy said:
What is so great about Diablo 3's combat? I only played as a Demon Hunter. All I ended up doing the whole time was either fortifying myself with healing sentries and shadow fog, or kiting with caltrops. I felt like I was getting to the fun part, but then I beat it and the fun part never came.
Click to expand...

Because it's polished to a mirror finish, weighty yet flows like butter. What matters in a loot title is end game, and mastering the game and loading up on gear and going on runs in D3 makes you realize just how great this title is for it's core combat and skill systems. Especially when trying to play basically any other genre entry afterwards.

This is really what Blizzard does best and no one else seems to be able to match, and despite my constant bitching over the months and years about choices they've made, I've come to realize.

It's lifting straight from the Cruncheons podcast, but I am just supremely more confident in Blizzard fixes issues they've already said they're setting out to do (itemization, less AH dominance) than other titles in the genre coming close to that polished, core experience for a modern loot hack. Of course, this won't stop me from playing and enjoying them all...except TL2, but if D3 get's it's LoD I could see it winding up as a pretty staple game for me over the years.

What exactly am I expected to do at this point? I've beaten it on Inferno. I feel my character is already ridiculously equipped. The only other thing I could do is farm for the slight chance of finding something even better so that I will be a little bit stronger. But I'm already strong enough to kill Diablo on Inferno in less than a minute. What other gains could possibly make the game more fun?
Click to expand...

Exactly the things he's telling you to. If you feel you're done with the game, you're done with the game, but for a lot of us dudes into these games total mastery and just the enjoyment of running through this is a big part. Played Diablo 2 as such, play Monster Hunter games as such, etc, etc.
 
P

Perkel

Banned
No. Not because it is impossible but because they don't want it to change that.
It is almost full year after release and not even one of fundamental problem was solved.

Frankly it is because all those systems are connected to eachother. You can't make a change to itemization without making change to skill system without making change to stats without making change to how combat works without making change to itemization.
 
I

IHaveCandy

Banned
Alex said:
Because it's polished to a mirror finish, weighty yet flows like butter. What matters in a loot title is end game, and mastering the game and loading up on gear and going on runs in D3 makes you realize just how great this title is for it's core combat and skill systems. Especially when trying to play basically any other genre entry afterwards.

This is really what Blizzard does best and no one else seems to be able to match, and despite my constant bitching over the months and years about choices they've made, I've come to realize.

It's lifting straight from the Cruncheons podcast, but I am just supremely more confident in Blizzard fixes issues they've already said they're setting out to do (itemization, less AH dominance) than other titles in the genre coming close to that polished, core experience for a modern loot hack. Of course, this won't stop me from playing and enjoying them all...except TL2, but if D3 get's it's LoD I could see it winding up as a pretty staple game for me over the years.
Click to expand...

Other games in the same genre can suck or have terrible combat, but I don't see that as an argument for why Diablo 3's is good. I can't say I ever felt the combat to be that fun. It only felt fun when I was taking on a large horde of enemies that I could barely fight. But that was a pretty small window of time for me once I caught up with loot.
 
J

j0hnny_385

Member
Don't know honestly. I bought the game day one (Collector's Edition!!!) and enjoyed the first playthrough gameplay-wise. Story sucked big time, but I hoped that gameplay would be fun on higher difficulties. Boy was I wrong...
As someone who has no intention of item farming whatsoever, this game offers no replay value for me. Again, the story is abysmal so no enjoyment there and what's the point of reaching lvl 60 if you're not having fun. *shrugs*
The only thing I do like is co-op. It works flawlessly, IMHO.
 
S

Svafnir

Member
IHaveCandy said:
What exactly am I expected to do at this point? I've beaten it on Inferno. I feel my character is already ridiculously equipped. The only other thing I could do is farm for the slight chance of finding something even better so that I will be a little bit stronger. But I'm already strong enough to kill Diablo on Inferno in less than a minute. What other gains could possibly make the game more fun?
Click to expand...

The Monster Power system is in there to make the game "more challenging" with a sliding scale 1-10. You have to turn this feature on in the options, and for each point it increases monster health and damage substantially. Basically with it high enough you won't be close to killing Diablo in a minute at all (If you are even lucky enough to survive the first few seconds.) The Monster Power system is not just for Inferno mode though, you can use it right from the start at level 1. It makes leveling up so much more difficult and fun, while rewarding you with increased magic/gold find and increased EXP. But yeah Monster Power 10 Inferno is nothing to laugh at, you would need insane gear.

However that is just artificial prolonging of the game. You can also do the Infernal Machine to fight uber versions of bosses (2 at a time) to get crafting reagents for an Infernal Ring. This ring that has an unique fireball effect and a bonus 35% EXP, along with random stats. You can give this to your alts to speed leveling or just use them on your main if you rolled good stats on it. You can do this quest as much as you want with your friends until you have your perfect ring.

You can gain Paragon levels that rewards you with passive gold and magic find along with a couple more character stat points. Oh and unique avatars if you are into that. Getting level 100 takes a long time.

You can try the new crafting system that involves reagents that drop from elite packs in Inferno. These new crafted items have the potential to be the best in the game and are bound on account so they cannot be sold.

Otherwise you can go PvP and just bash the crap out of people.

That's all the new stuff to do... Otherwise it's the old ARPG grind of finding the best items. Or if you are into it, go play the auction house to make some real money.
 
T

Teknoman

Member
Whatever they do for an expansion pack, just make sure its even challenging on normal AND they contract Matt Uleman for the soundtrack. The D3 stuff did not draw me in at all.
 
Ploid 3.0

Ploid 3.0

Member
In D3 what I do with junk is vendor it. Don't waste time salvaging D3, vendor and spend the cash money on bling.

Sorry about that. To answer seriously, they would have to start over pretty much. Redo a lot of stuff from the foundation. The whole item, skill, passive system, maybe a ton more, something to make maps able to be truly random. A endgame map system like PoE to keep endgaming interesting. A mix of mobs that would never be in the same place and other random stuff (PoE again).
 
S

spindoctor

Member
IHaveCandy said:
What is so great about Diablo 3's combat? I only played as a Demon Hunter. All I ended up doing the whole time was either fortifying myself with healing sentries and shadow fog, or kiting with caltrops. I felt like I was getting to the fun part, but then I beat it and the fun part never came.
Click to expand...

Demon Hunter is fine but the combat of D3 really shines with the Barbarian IMO. The competition doesn't even come close to the combat of the Barb.

And for all the guys who say they aren't into grinding and then complain about the game having no replayability... what the fuck were you expecting when you bought the game? Diablo has always been a game about grinding/farming.
 
T

Teknoman

Member
IvanI said:
Don't know honestly. I bought the game day one (Collector's Edition!!!) and enjoyed the first playthrough gameplay-wise. Story sucked big time, but I hoped that gameplay would be fun on higher difficulties. Boy was I wrong...
As someone who has no intention of item farming whatsoever, this game offers no replay value for me. Again, the story is abysmal so no enjoyment there and what's the point of reaching lvl 60 if you're not having fun. *shrugs*
The only thing I do like is co-op. It works flawlessly, IMHO.
Click to expand...

Same here. Collectors edition and all. I play Diablo for the story (simple yeah, but I thought it was interesting), soundtrack, and co-op fun.

Maybe after I revisit it sometime soon...but from what I played in the past, I really didnt have much fun. Felt more like going through the motions, especially after the story seemed to kinda fall off.
 
Alex

Alex

Member
IHaveCandy said:
Other games in the same genre can suck or have terrible combat, but I don't see that as an argument for why Diablo 3's is good. I can't say I ever felt the combat to be that fun. It only felt fun when I was taking on a large horde of enemies that I could barely fight. But that was a pretty small window of time for me once I caught up with loot.
Click to expand...

That's healthy I suppose, as I never tried to make that argument, and wouldn't. Different tastes then, for me farming up in Inferno and loot runs was a real blast, loved the combat, doing quick runs, getting into a zone with it, especially with newer patches. Combat just feels great, controls great and I've always adored the skill system. I absolutely abhor classical D2 in this regard and POE, which contain these insanely unhealthy, zero boon systems that don't cater to anyone but the unemployed.

For my "salvaging" of D3, I think the recent systems have helped a lot with initial qualms I had earlier last year (and, it is highly obvious a lot of people in here have no idea what has even been fixed or added). I just want them to continue down that road, add some quirks to the itemization and double down on crafting work done lately.

Anyone who says more randomization is a smart cookie though. D3 needs this, right now the randomization is very awkwardly done and it absolutely tears into certain portions of the game in terms of pacing (Act II, I'm lookin' at you)

spindoctor said:
Demon Hunter is fine but the combat of D3 really shines with the Barbarian IMO. The competition doesn't even come close to the combat of the Barb.

And for all the guys who say they aren't into grinding and then complain about the game having no replayability... what the fuck were you expecting when you bought the game?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Mooonnnkkkk.

People who play a loot hack for narrative and show disdain for the actual meat of the genre need to check their homes for gas leaks, because something funny is going on.
 
E

elmariachi

Banned
Why would anyone want to salvage this game?

What exactly is salvegable asides from the graphics and possibly the combat? The whole thing is a mess with what appears to be even a small change like no stats points. In return weapons DPS is the single most important factor to your DPS.

I could go on but that is my stance. Why salvage this game?
 
M

MaxwellGT2000

Member
Am I the only one on the internet that enjoyed this game and the time I spent with it? o_o I played it and enjoyed it more than Diablo II... but then again by the time I got Diablo II everyone was so far ahead of me it wasn't fun... I was able to have fun with Diablo III cause I played with others while they were learning and I helped others learn... I think I just missed the boat on Diablo II, but I find both to be great games and everything minus the always online DRM to be pretty solid. Not the best Blizzard game but then again I'm not a huge Diablo player, Diablo is my casual Blizzard game while Starcraft is my life... so... yeah I'd say it's salvageable, technically all they would need to do to get rid of always online DRM is to patch it out.
 
T

Teknoman

Member
Diablo 2 was just fun to play every so often with friends/family/online community members. No farming or any of that, just Act 1 to V straight through on different difficulties. Sure, I like getting better and better items, but I still played the games for their fast action, challenging, numbers of enemies, atmosphere, and so on.

Also it kinda sucks for when you're a Monk and you see you hardly see your weapons in action.
 
Woo-Fu

Woo-Fu

Banned
Salvageable? What is it, hyperbole day? For every person crying on a forum about how bad diablo 3 is there are thousands playing and enjoying it.

People who aren't getting what they want out of Diablo 3 need to acknowledge and move on.
 
D

Dirtie

Member
The auction house and the fact that a lot of design decisions were based around it was what ruined it for me. Unless they get rid of the AH completely I have no interest in giving D3 another go.
 
R

Raide

Member
Would need loads of work to get it to a great Diablo stage. Not just the AH stuff but the utter lack of reasons to rerolling different classes over and over, that was what make D2 great. Dark SOuls has filled that gap for me now. Tbh, I would rather they drop it and make a new IP that brings loot collecting back, since I really don't want to wait another 10 years for them to make another disappointing game.
 
S

Svafnir

Member
IHaveCandy said:
The Monster Power stuff is new to me. How do I do that other mode and PvP?
Click to expand...

PvP is accessed through a NPC in every act's hub. It's best to talk in the public chat channels to find people to duel with.

The Infernal Machine sidequest for uber bosses is rather involved and unless you can do high Monster Power levels it's going to be a bit difficult for you make the portal. But here is a guide I wrote if anyone is interested, it goes over the bosses and all the main details.

http://www.d3rmt.com/guides/infernal-machine-hellfire-ring/

Dirtie said:
The auction house and the fact that a lot of design decisions were based around it was what ruined it for me. Unless they get rid of the AH completely I have no interest in giving D3 another go.
Click to expand...

Blizzard is on the same side as you, they recognize the problems with the auction house. This is why they are making a push to the fact the best gear is bind on account and can only be crafted by actually playing the game, not even the reagents can be bought off the auction house.
 
I

IHaveCandy

Banned
Svafnir said:
PvP is accessed through a NPC in every act's hub. It's best to talk in the public chat channels to find people to duel with.

The Infernal Machine sidequest for uber bosses is rather involved and unless you can do high Monster Power levels it's going to be a bit difficult for you make the portal. But here is a guide I wrote if anyone is interested, it goes over the bosses and all the main details.

http://www.d3rmt.com/guides/infernal-machine-hellfire-ring/



Blizzard is on the same side as you, they recognize the problems with the auction house. This is why they are making a push to the fact the best gear is bind on account and can only be crafted by actually playing the game, not even the reagents can be bought off the auction house.
Click to expand...

How would my character fare in the Infernal Machine?

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/DoubleVision-1101/hero/299403
 
E

elmariachi

Banned
Svafnir said:
Blizzard is on the same side as you, they recognize the problems with the auction house. This is why they are making a push to the fact the best gear is bind on account and can only be crafted by actually playing the game, not even the reagents can be bought off the auction house.
Click to expand...

That is a horrible idea... this is an Arpg not an MMO. I am so glad I unisntalled the game.
 
S

Svafnir

Member
elmariachi said:
That is a horrible idea... this is an Arpg not an MMO. I am so glad I unisntalled the game.
Click to expand...

Honestly it just means you have to work for your gear instead of buy it on the auction house. Isn't that a complaint a lot of people had?

Just can't win.
 
T

Tacitus_

Member
We'll see next week with the itemization dev blog post. Though the blue post that announced it was rather large already and filled me with hope.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Companions coming to Diablo 4, starting with Season 3 'Construct'
News
5
1K
DeltaPolarBear replied
Blizzard announces massive changes to Diablo 4 starting Season 4
News
2
678
clarky replied
Diablo IV PC Game Pass users will need to install Battle.net in order to play; Achievements not supported
2
54
4K
Topher replied
The changes introduced with Season 2 of Diablo 4 are pretty fun but man, that battle pass shit just makes me want to find something else to play
2
73
4K
MMaRsu replied
Great deal on Diablo 2 and Diablo 3 on Nintendo Switch eShop
0
627
Power Pro replied
Top Bottom