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glNext GDC session presented by Valve, Frostbite, Unity, Epic, Oxide

A

ashecitism

Member
This is basically next gen OpenGL for those who don't know.
http://schedule.gdconf.com/session/glnext-the-future-of-high-performance-graphics-presented-by-valve

glNext: The Future of High Performance Graphics (Presented by Valve)

Johan Andersson | Technical Fellow, Electronic Arts, Frostbite Engine Team
Pierre-Loup Griffais | Developer, Valve Software
John McDonald | Developer, Valve Software
Niklas Smedberg | Senior Engine Programmer, Epic Games
Dan Baker | Graphics Architect, Oxide Games
Aras Pranckevicius | Graphics Architect, Unity Technologies
Tom Olson | Chair of the Working Group, Khronos

Join us for the unveiling of Khronos' glNext initiative, the upcoming cross-platform graphics API designed for modern programming techniques and processors. glNext will be the singular choice for developers who demand peak performance in their applications. We will present a technical breakdown of the API, advanced techniques and live demos of real-world applications running on glNext drivers and hardware.
Click to expand...

Last I read about it Khronos were still surveying devs and having conversations about possibilities. And AMD opened Mantle up for them.

edit:
repi said:
We'll definitely post the slides after the talk!
Click to expand...

I'm one of the presenters. We are planning on having recordings, they just haven't been sorted out with GDC quite yet. Hopefully should be fixed in a couple of days.
Click to expand...

http://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gamin...pengl_successor_to_be_unveiled_at_gdc/co9ilpe

---

Here are the slides from last year's SIGGRAPH. Starts at page 67.
 
D

Durante

Member
Really looking forward to this.

I hope they get good industry support even from the usual OpenGL laggards.
 
A

Arkanius

Member
I would really love OpenGL finds a way to get industry wide adoption.
But alas, how do you beat DX that gets you APIs to implement Graphics, Sound and Input?
 
V

Vintage

Member
Kinda excited to see, but still very skeptical. Is this going to be one of these refactored opengl versions that's supposed to revolutionize gaming and kill directx, but end up being complete flop that no one uses?
 
K

KKRT00

Member
ashecitism said:
Yeah, I don't think I heard much about that since last GDC? Just like their stuff with Mantle?
Click to expand...

They have Linux build, so they are definitely looking into OpenGL, the point will they go to for glNEXT or just stick to DX12, Mantle and normal OpenGL.
 
B

BrokenIcarus

Member
I hope this finds adoption real quick in the next couple of android updates!
Love that they're combining ES and Desktop systems. Should be great!

Can't wait.
 
blu

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Durante said:
As in, you can use it to write applications in all areas of the industry. From visualization on high-end workstations over PC games to cell phones.
Click to expand...
To html5 browsers.
 
A

alexandros

Banned
It's great to see that Valve is still pushing OpenGL and Linux hard. I was worried that after Windows 8 crashed and burned and Microsoft made some goodwill gestures towards Valve they would maybe put Linux on the backburner.
 
A

ashecitism

Member
It's weird how no one has picked this up yet. Not even the official OGL site or Khronos have mentioned this talk. Still sleeping? lol

M3d10n said:
OSX support coming in 2019. Apple hasn't even bothered with OpenGL 4.4 yet...
Click to expand...

Which version are they on?
 
A

Arkanius

Member
Durante said:
This is a bit funny.

I mean, if you look at it objectively, OpenGL is the only graphics API with industry-wide adoption.
Click to expand...

I meant industry-wide related to the Gaming industry, since it lost territory there.

Also, how is the situation with OpenGL ES? I heard it was quite different from OpenGL proper
 
C

Candescence

Member
I seriously wonder if glNext is just gonna be OpenGL 5.0 or an entirely new implementation that strips away all the baggage. Hopefully this'll do great things.

Still more cautiously excited for Euclideon's work, though, since they're releasing two games with their tech in May.

Arkanius said:
I meant industry-wide related to the Gaming industry, since it lost territory there.

Also, how is the situation with OpenGL ES? I heard it was quite different from OpenGL proper
Click to expand...
OpenGL ES is pretty much standard for graphics on smartphones, and WebGL is based on it. Even Microsoft has reluctantly implemented WebGL in Internet Explorer, but I'm pretty sure they still use DX for Windows phones, because of course they do.
 
U

UpDownLeftRight

Banned
Candescence said:
I seriously wonder if glNext is just gonna be OpenGL 5.0 or an entirely new implementation that strips away all the baggage. Hopefully this'll do great things.

Still more cautiously excited for Euclideon's work, though, since they're releasing two games with their tech in May.


OpenGL ES is pretty much standard for graphics on smartphones, and WebGL is based on it. Even Microsoft has reluctantly implemented WebGL in Internet Explorer, but I'm pretty sure they still use DX for Windows phones, because of course they do.
Click to expand...

Wait, that thing actually exists? Euclideon's Infinite Detail? Man that takes me back! I was working with gaming sites back when that was announced which must have been quite some years ago now. I genuinely thought at the time that it would turn out to be vaporware so to hear it's actually going to happen is pretty shocking. Gonna have to check out some stuff and see what advances they've made.

Edit: By the way what's the name of those games? Can't seem to find a mention of them very easily.

Double Edit: I honestly still think they're spouting crap and the engine just cannot do what they think it can, though I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
 
Denton

Denton

Member
Excuse layman question, but is this going to be used by devs on Windows too? Or is everyone still going to use DX12? Is this mostly for SteamOS/Linux?
 
T

tuxfool

Banned
Dictator93 said:
Sick, 2010 was a good vintage for graphics. Apple has great taste. Those OSX users have it made, I say!
Click to expand...

Yeah, well... Apple gonna Apple.

Even when they are relatively snappy on the uptake, their OpenGL implementations leave a lot to be desired in terms of performance. They do pander to the workstation users such that even the consumer GPUs are certified for working with things like Maya etc; their drivers favor stability over anything else.
 
A

ashecitism

Member
Denton said:
Excuse layman question, but is this going to be used by devs on Windows too? Or is everyone still going to use DX12? Is this mostly for SteamOS/Linux?
Click to expand...

If devs want, they could use this for Win too. But most will probably be sticking to DX there.
 
M

Metal-Geo

Member
Denton said:
Excuse layman question, but is this going to be used by devs on Windows too? Or is everyone still going to use DX12? Is this mostly for SteamOS/Linux?
Click to expand...
Probably. We'll have to wait and see what Khronos has up their sleeves with glNext and how attractive it is to software developers and/or graphics engineers.

Candescence said:
OpenGL ES is pretty much standard for graphics on smartphones, and WebGL is based on it. Even Microsoft has reluctantly implemented WebGL in Internet Explorer, but I'm pretty sure they still use DX for Windows phones, because of course they do.
Click to expand...
The funny thing about WebGL is - even though it uses the workflow of OpenGL (ES) -browsers like Chrome, Firefox and IE use Direct3D for the rendering on Windows.
 
D

Durante

Member
Denton said:
Excuse layman question, but is this going to be used by devs on Windows too? Or is everyone still going to use DX12? Is this mostly for SteamOS/Linux?
Click to expand...
Ideally, it will be so awesome that everyone will use it on everything. (That said, with engines such as UE4 or Unity that will surely implement rendering backends for both, it should be easy to compare performance)

One reason people might still stick with DX12 is tool support. Generally, Microsoft is amazing at development tools. That's really their biggest strength.
 
C

Candescence

Member
UpDownLeftRight said:
Wait, that thing actually exists? Euclideon's Infinite Detail? Man that takes me back! I was working with gaming sites back when that was announced which must have been quite some years ago now. I genuinely thought at the time that it would turn out to be vaporware so to hear it's actually going to happen is pretty shocking. Gonna have to check out some stuff and see what advances they've made.

Edit: By the way what's the name of those games? Can't seem to find a mention of them very easily.
Click to expand...

They haven't actually announced the specifics for those titles, but it's confirmed that the current release date is in May (though Bruce Dell admitted there might be delays, but that's a reality of game development in general, really), and they're being released for an "unexpected platform". I'm putting my bets on smartphones or the 3DS, which would really be a surprise, considering they're aiming to make the games run entirely on the CPU at 30fps. They'll probably show something between now and May, they've said they've got animation working, but they want it working 100% right before they show anything.

Best to keep one's expectations low, however. The stuff they've actually shown is really cool, but the marketing pitches at cringeworthy and hyperbolic. I imagine if Euclideon license out their game tech, it'll be either a Unity-esque setup or a package deal with other engines that implement it, Bruce Dell has noted he's sceptical about the long-term viability of UE4 and Cryengine's business model. In any case, I doubt nothing substantial will come out of Unlimited Detail at this point, unless there's a big problem with the tech somewhere, which I doubt at this point.
 
Locuza

Locuza

Member
Candescence said:
I seriously wonder if glNext is just gonna be OpenGL 5.0 or an entirely new implementation that strips away all the baggage. Hopefully this'll do great things.
Click to expand...
It should be the last one:
http://de.slideshare.net/NeilTrevett/whats-next-in-graphics-apis-siggraph-asia-dec14

Starting with page 11.

Denton said:
Excuse layman question, but is this going to be used by devs on Windows too? Or is everyone still going to use DX12? Is this mostly for SteamOS/Linux?
Click to expand...
I hope so, also that MS will not be against the new API on their W10 devices.
If I remember correct Windows Phone didn't support OpenGL ES, only D3D Feature-Level 9.
 
D

Durante

Member
Nzyme32 said:
Last I heard is that GLnext would actually break from the norm and be heavily modernised version and new implementation rather than the usual OpenGL that is backwards compatible with yesteryear. I assume they will have some form of compatibility with legacy stuff somehow?
Click to expand...
I think any kind of backwards compatibility would go against what this is supposed to be. Maybe you could reuse most of the shader language.

An idea I just had (so not really reflected on the viability of it or anything) of something that would be incredibly interesting IMHO is an open source / free software "Classic OpenGL" layer implemented on top of glNext. Basically, take the huge software complexity and myriad of functions of full legacy OpenGL support and put it into a single-well tested framework which runs on every low-level GLnext driver provided by each vendor.
 
H

hellocld

Member
Durante said:
An idea I just had (so not really reflected on the viability of it or anything) of something that would be incredibly interesting IMHO is an open source / free software "Classic OpenGL" layer implemented on top of glNext. Basically, take the huge software complexity and myriad of functions of full legacy OpenGL support and put it into a single-well tested framework which runs on every low-level GLnext driver provided by each vendor.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that be something like what Valve and others were working on that served as a DirectX layer over OpenGL/SDL(?) for quick and dirty Linux ports?
 
D

Durante

Member
hellocld said:
Wouldn't that be something like what Valve and others were working on that served as a DirectX layer over OpenGL/SDL(?) for quick and dirty Linux ports?
Click to expand...
Yes, in a way, except that it makes a lot more sense in my mind to implement a higher-level API based on a low-level API than a high-level API based on another high-level (legacy-riddled) API.
 
S

ScepticMatt

Member
tuxfool said:
Probably not. Is GDC streamed?
Click to expand...
Only a small part of GDC is streamed, something like award shows and post mortems.
A list of streams will be available on the partner website - typically gamespot or gamasutra.
Most of the sessions are recorded and are available on the GDC vault,
but they can only be accessed by for-pay subscribers until the next GDC, after which they can be viewed without restriction.

Session slides can sometimes be found online after a keynote.
 
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