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[Jezbollah]

UK authorities received 5 separate warnings by close associates and a warning from the FBI and that wasn't enough to warrant an investigation and he was allowed to travel freely.

That's either incompetence or the structure of the government is so inefficient that it is needlessly putting UK citizens into potential danger every day.

Or it could be that they either mis-prioritised him as a threat or don't have the resources to track all those that are seen as a threat 24/7.

 

[riotous]

Born in Manchester, not sure if that makes him a citizen.

But how would you "not allow him to travel freely"? What kind of law stops an accused person from traveling where they want to?

Revoking passports or whatever over accusations seems like the kind of thing that most people would protest; and 24/7 surveillance is ridiculously expensive and could be completely pointless anyways. He could have been surveilled right up until the point he blew himself up and it would have changed nothing.

They do stop attacks from time to time; but it sounds like this guy didn't communicate online with anyone and was acting alone? Even with surveillance that might not have stopped anything.

 

[Theonik]

Or it could be that they either mis-prioritised him as a threat or don't have the resources to track all those that are seen as a threat 24/7.

Probably both.

 

[kaizoku]

Manchester has gone bee tattoo crazy since the bomb. Someone started a Manchester Bee Tattoo Appeal thing where you'd pay £50 for a tattoo which would go to charities/funds.

Tattoo parlours have been inundated. One I went to today was hosting a walk in day from 10am-6pm and it was mental. People started queuing up from 4.30am and the queue was probably 4 times longer than they could've served. They had 7 artists and managed to get through 100 or so in 4 hours which is when I got in. I waited 6.5 hours in total!

There was free food from local restaurants and takeaways and DJs working for free and free drinks etc.

I read someone waited 9 hours yday as well in a different parlour. There are queues and packed bookings all over Facebook! It's amazing to see.

I don't know if other cities effected by attacks had similar things but I never heard of it so I figured I'd tell a small part of the world about it. Google Manchester Bee Tattoo Appeal to learn more about how our great city is reacting to the attack.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

Given that GCHQ has probably got every brown person who walked within 500 yards of a mosque on some sort of watchlist, how are police forces faced with constant budget cuts going to keep track of thousands of potential suspects?

It's easy to point fingers at them but they have so much to sift through that it's impossible to stop everybody and bullshit like stopping end to end encryption is only going to make their job harder.

 

[Jezbollah]

Probably both.

Most definitely the latter, the former will be closely looked at in the next few months if what the Independent said is true.

 

[boxoctosis]

What we don't see is the number of threats protectively stopped by the security forces. We just see the output when one slips through. The old adage, " the police have to be lucky all the time, the terrorists only need to be lucky once".

I dunno, 20:20 hindsight and pointing fingers is of no use. Not do I actually believe that throwing more resource would prevent atrocities like this. Where there a will there's a way. Better to understand why there's a will.

Having said all that we will probs vote in a Conservative government only interested in clamping down on our freedoms. Useless country that we are.

 

[Jezbollah]

What we don't see is the number of threats protectively stopped by the security forces. We just see the output when one slips through. The old adage, " the police have to be lucky all the time, the terrorists only need to be lucky once".

I was going to post a one-liner referencing just this - that our security services have disrupted dozens of attacks in various stages of planning. I believe this country genuinely has the best anti-terrorism infrastructure in the world, after the previous experience of the troubles in Northern Ireland. Given this, it most certainly surprises me of the FBI's claims - there should and will be an inquiry into this.

 

[JonathanEx]

Not sure if the surviving victims would like to be reminded about the traumatizing events that happened to them every time they see one of those bee tattoos. Donate fine but why announce it? There's nothing to celebrate here, there's no turning a negative into a positive.

The bee is everywhere in Manchester already though from bins to streets - it's a symbol of the city.

 

[Theonik]

I was going to post a one-liner referencing just this - that our security services have disrupted dozens of attacks in various stages of planning. I believe this country genuinely has the best anti-terrorism infrastructure in the world, after the previous experience of the troubles in Northern Ireland. Given this, it most certainly surprises me of the FBI's claims - there should and will be an inquiry into this.

One of the problems is the ones that tend to be foiled are also the ones that are least likely to be successful. Not because of security services intervention necessarily but because of poor planning. That is to say, well planned plots tend to be harder to foil and tend to be carried out with greater level of success. Many terrorists end up self-owning. Like the incident a few years back where a plot was foiled because they were testing IEDs in their garden.

 

[Ashes]

What we don't see is the number of threats protectively stopped by the security forces. We just see the output when one slips through. The old adage, " the police have to be lucky all the time, the terrorists only need to be lucky once".

We do though. And often. Which is fair enough. What government won't boast about how many threats they stop?

 

[The Scrivener]

We do though. And often. Which is fair enough. What government won't boast about how many threats they stop?

They should do the same as my AVG antivirus software. Yesterday it told me it stopped so many thousands of attacks (their word, not mine) in the UK last month.

 

[boxoctosis]

We do though. And often. Which is fair enough. What government won't boast about how many threats they stop?

I think they boast about the tip of the iceberg myself.

 

[Ashes]

I think they boast about the tip of the iceberg myself.

Ah. I see. For what rational reason do you attribute this to a government? Modesty?

 

[Pyroclastic]

The bee is everywhere in Manchester already though from bins to streets - it's a symbol of the city.

How long has it been a thing? Obviously probably just om oversight my part but I've been to Manchester loads and never seen it around, last time was a year or so ago.

 

[TsunamiOfSwagger]

How long has it been a thing? Obviously probably just am oversight my part but I've been too Manchester loads and never seen it around, last time was a year or so ago.

It's everywhere. Pop into the town hall and look at the mosaic floor that's in there. I think it's on the bins as well.

 

[SkeptiMism]

It's neither the muslim community.. whatever that means, or MI5 that I blame. If it's true that there are however many thousands of radicals in the UK, I'm not sure how much I trust that anyone can do the job of stopping it. As far as the community, of course there are good people that will do the right thing. At the same time there are no-go zones in various European nations.

So the blame for Manchester is on the UK government. Deport these people, throw them in jail if they are citizens or whatever else needs to be done to purge them from the society. Pretty simple system of gather whatever intel you need, and in this case seems like there was a ton of it with corroboration from the family and friends, put him in front of a judge and settle it. At least get the obvious cases like this guy out of the picture.

I don't know how many times this has been debunked in here already. There are no no-go zones in Europe. Or do you have some substantial proof that there are?

 

[JonnyDBrit]

How long has it been a thing? Obviously probably just am oversight my part but I've been too Manchester loads and never seen it around, last time was a year or so ago.

The worker bee has been associated with Manchester since the days when Queen Victoria was still seated on the throne. You've probably seen it but never really noticed it.

 

[boxoctosis]

Ah. I see. For what rational reason do you attribute this to a government? Modesty?

Volume of stuff they prevent means they don't tell us about all of them.

 

[Thornton Reed]

How long has it been a thing? Obviously probably just om oversight my part but I've been to Manchester loads and never seen it around, last time was a year or so ago.

 

[kaizoku]

The gallery here shows a lot of pictures of bees in Manchester, including some of the more prominent graffiti in the city.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...lery/manchester-bee-symbol-hope-many-13098072

 

[hanspampel]

I don't know how many times this has been debunked in here already. There are no no-go zones in Europe. Or do you have some substantial proof that there are?

What the hell is that nonsense that is repeated here all the time?

Europe is 10 million km² and has a population of 750 million people.
Of course there are several no-go areas for certain people.

It's statistical impossible that there aren't any.
Don't act like Europe is totally different from the rest of the world. Or are there also no no-go areas for certain people in Americas, the Middle East, Asia and Africa?

I'm sure as hell the whole world is a save haven /s

 

[Theonik]

The gallery here shows a lot of pictures of bees in Manchester, including some of the more prominent graffiti in the city.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...lery/manchester-bee-symbol-hope-many-13098072

That's some Beeluminati shit.

 

[dyergram]

What the hell is that nonsense that is repeated here all the time?

Europe is 10 million km² and has a population of 750 million people.
Of course there are several no-go areas for certain people.

It's statistical impossible that there aren't any.
Don't act like Europe is totally different from the rest of the world. Or are there also no no-go areas for certain people in Americas, the Middle East, Asia and Africa?

I'm sure as hell the whole world is a save haven /s

Utter bollocks. Name one of them.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

What the hell is that nonsense that is repeated here all the time?

Europe is 10 million km² and has a population of 750 million people.
Of course there are several no-go areas for certain people.

It's statistical impossible that there aren't any.
Don't act like Europe is totally different from the rest of the world. Or are there also no no-go areas for certain people in Americas, the Middle East, Asia and Africa?

I'm sure as hell the whole world is a save haven /s

Define a no-go zone with proper criteria, then bring up clear, properly identified examples within Europe. Otherwise you're arguing for an abstract without proof that doesn't need proof either.

 

[hanspampel]

Define a no-go zone with proper criteria, then bring up clear, properly identified examples within Europe. Otherwise you're arguing for an abstract without proof that doesn't need proof either.

an area, where people of a certain ethnic, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, political opinion, beliefs or just foreigners and non local persons have a (way) higher chance of getting into conflicts and / or being harmed

the usual stuff like extremely high criminal rates.
no obligations to the law and law enforcement, rather resistance and attacks
places where everyone likes to spend his holidays because it's so save and friendly there...



i'm from germany
we have criminal clans "ruling" certain areas in marxloh or neuköln
rocker clubs and their bars / streets in bottrop and other cities
neonazi hot spots in barop and certainly also the east

and now imagine great places in russia, serbia or istanbul for example
but sure everyone in europe can go everywhere in europe and doing everything they want without being worried.