darth_infamous
Member
Apparently no one here has heard of polling https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polling_(computer_science)
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30FPS on PC vs console - why does the latter always feel better?
- Thread starter leng jai
- Start date
You really have to be significantly more specific than that.
I have heard of polling, I mean, I teach it even, but I have no idea how you think it applies to this thread.
SeeNoWeevil
Member
Can someone tell me why *locking* a v-synced output to your monitor's refresh would improve frame pacing? If it's sync to the display, how could pacing possibly improve by adding a frame lock?
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
Not sure what is happening but 30fps is just so much better on my PS4 than on my PC monitor.
I'm guessing it's either because devs use some post fx or something to make it look smoother or maybe it's just because my TV has some crazy motion blur effect or something.
my PC gaming monitor is 60hz 1ms 1080p and 30fps on it is just unbearable.
I'm guessing it's either because devs use some post fx or something to make it look smoother or maybe it's just because my TV has some crazy motion blur effect or something.
my PC gaming monitor is 60hz 1ms 1080p and 30fps on it is just unbearable.
I thought Bloodborne's PS4 performance was absolutely awful, especially given how it looked. I'll never play another FROM game anywhere except PC.
daninthemix
Member
That's kind of the point of this thread, with many solutions listed if you'd care to read them:
- either lock FPS to 30 with RTSS or use Nvidia half-refresh v-sync (some say both, however it is recommend to disable any other frame limiters that might interfere - in-game limiters, v-sync, borderless windowed, etc - just use ONE method of frame-limiting, otherwise they may clash and hinder frame-times. My recommendation is half-refresh v-sync alone, in-game full screen).
- max pre-rendered frames to 1
- motion blur options, if available, can help but only if they use a 33ms 'shutter'
This is what I did for Witcher 3 and got perfect frame-pacing that looks the same as the PS4 version, only better because I didn't have a single frame drop in over 100 hours.
ARAH!
I noticed that too straight away. Switched that straight back to unlocked 60.
I too would like to know what caused this in TLOU Remaster.
I noticed that too straight away. Switched that straight back to unlocked 60.
I too would like to know what caused this in TLOU Remaster.
Lockjaw333
Member
I will need to try this. I'm another person who has always felt that 30fps on PC just doesn't feel the same as on console.
Arkham Knight feels so incredibly smooth on PS4. If I totally max Witcher 3 with Hairworks and try to lock to 30fps I don't get the same smoothness.
So setting max pre rendered frames to 1 helps? Would that also be helpful for a 60fps lock? I've found that it makes Witcher 3 smoother at 60fps lock but not sure if its placebo.
protomouse
Member
I don't really perceive 30fps on console to be any easier on the eyes than 30fps on PC
chronic_archaic
Member
I definitely don't think about it at all while playing console games.
daninthemix
Member
Max pre-rendered frames = 1 helps in so many games I just set it globally. It's the lowest input lag you can get (other than 0, which gives your GPU no buffer at all to work with, and will probably cause random frame drops).
For Witcher 3 I recommend:
NVCP: pre-rendered frames=1, half-refresh v-sync, prefer maximum performance
In-game: full screen, frame-cap unlimited, v-sync off, motion blur off
I used max settings (inc. hairworks, exc. various post-processing options that aren't to my taste) and kept 30fps 100% of the time, and it felt smooth, barring the inherently hitchy animation when running or riding the horse. As I said, played for over 100 hours and it was very tolerable. Even though I could maintain 60fps probably 80-90% of the time on my 970 with slightly lower settings, I find drops so jarring I would rather just lock at 30 and forget about it.
Kralamoonard
Member
Hmmm, it's quite the opposite for me.
In fact, one thing that's always bugged me is why 30fps on YouTube videos look more smooth than the 30fps games I play on my consoles.
In fact, one thing that's always bugged me is why 30fps on YouTube videos look more smooth than the 30fps games I play on my consoles.
CyanideFuse
Member
I had to hard lock The Witcher 3 to 30fps on my second PC and couldn't believe what it looked like; it felt worse than I remember console games looking like.
So I put a 360 3rd person game on to see and it looked the same to me as the PC 30fps.
So I put a 360 3rd person game on to see and it looked the same to me as the PC 30fps.
Not good.
The reason why TLoU on PS4 felt choppy at 30 FPS was because of the way the motion blur worked, it worked as if it was still running at 60FPS but because the time between each frame is longer in 30FPS the motion blur would work for only half of that and break creating a choppy look.
This is a simple explanation and I am sure someone who knows better can explain it better.
daninthemix
Member
Now try without Rivatuner (making sure the game is on full screen not windowed) and see if it's the same.
Without the limit the fps flits between 30-32 and looks slightly stuttery.
Were you suggesting the limit was unnecessary? Not technically versed here.
daninthemix
Member
No I was just curious, to try as an experiment. I don't have Arkham Knight but with other games I've found half-refresh v-sync on its own does a good job and Rivatuner adds nothing. Others have different experiences, of course, and it will probably vary between games.
Thanks for all your input in this thread! I did exactly what you did and the game looks phenomenal on my GTX 780. All graphic settings cranked except for hairworks. I'll be using this in future graphic-intensive games to get a little more life out of my 780. I don't mind 30fps as long as it is consistent.
daninthemix
Member
No worries. If you find your performance suddenly tanks check that the game hasn't switched itself back to borderless windowed. It does that sometimes.
JonathanPower
Member
Because if a game runs at 30fps on consoles it means it was optimized and meant to run that way; that's the difference you are seeing.
Dictator93
Member
Excuse me?
In Cryengine this was always controlled by the motionblur shutter speed which you could arbitarily change. So that 30 fps would have the shutter speed of a 60fps game and a 60fps game could have the shutter speed of a 30fps game. If they made shutter speed vary with framerate (or just allowed the user to toggle their preference) it would not do that. AFAIK.
Question for you. Just downloaded Nvidia Inspector and it's great. Under "Sync and Refresh" for my Witcher 3 profile, I've put vertical sync at 1/2 refresh rate, and vertical sync tear control at standard. There's one option I don't understand though: vertical sync smooth AFR behaviour. It's set to off and is not grayed out like the other options (since those are all default). Should I concern myself with this?
daninthemix
Member
I have that turned off - I believe it's only for SLI setups (alternate-frame rendering, or something?).
I also prefer standard to adaptive, as in my experience adaptive will occasionally tear when it doesn't need to.
Yep, that's exactly why I downloaded Inspector. Everything was fine except for the tearing with adaptive. Now that I have it set to standard, it's perfect!
Crayon
Member
Tearing looks bad enough when there's to frames on screen. The tear itself looks shitty and it can make a hitching effect in motion. But when the frametime/rate is fluctuating, you can actually get 3 frames on screen. Often with one being a runt, like a sliver between the two torn ones, and in motion you don't even see it. The runt frame can be just a few pixels tall onscreen, residing between the tow larger torn frames. So that's a whole frame down the shitter while you system is attempting to draw in a timely way.
With gsync, framerates will fluctuate, as they tend to do, but at least the whole frame will be shown ever time. Not two halves of two frames. And you won't be getting runt frames. It's a big improvement.
In a perfect world, all game engines would get their frames out in a perfectly even timing. But they don't. So gsync can help.
Plenty of Great images that showcase why in the first page of this thread.
Frame Pacing is interesting stuff , wish more games nailed it. The Order 1866 for example is like a flawless diamond with it's 30fps, it's so smooth it almost looks eery.
Drive Club also has a pretty solid framerate although it's post processing effects and aliasing cause the image quality to suffer a tiny bit compared to the order.
Basically, if a developer has to settle for 30fps , it's within their best interest to make sure they get that frame pacing nailed to 33.3ms , draw a frame too early and you get tearing and hitching which can also happen if a frame is drawn to late. I personally find 30 fps is a fine framerate to use when it's rock solid but man, if it DOES get choppy ? it just bogs down everything.
Frame Pacing is interesting stuff , wish more games nailed it. The Order 1866 for example is like a flawless diamond with it's 30fps, it's so smooth it almost looks eery.
Drive Club also has a pretty solid framerate although it's post processing effects and aliasing cause the image quality to suffer a tiny bit compared to the order.
Basically, if a developer has to settle for 30fps , it's within their best interest to make sure they get that frame pacing nailed to 33.3ms , draw a frame too early and you get tearing and hitching which can also happen if a frame is drawn to late. I personally find 30 fps is a fine framerate to use when it's rock solid but man, if it DOES get choppy ? it just bogs down everything.
thunder_snail
Member
I blame it on Kb+M control on PC. Playing 30 fps games on PC with a controller feels fine. But as soon as I use a mouse, it gets ugly.
I had to give up on Witcher 3 on console, not because of the frame-rate but because the sluggish controls made it unplayable for me. I downloaded it so I can return to it if they manage to fix it but I'm yet to read anything from them that suggests there's any chance of that happening.
Does the RTSS method work with laptops with Optimus? I'm asking because a lot of options, including v-sync ones, aren't displayed in Nvidia CP if you have Optimus.
I play The Witcher 3 on high/ultra, with in-game v-sync on, and it's usually at 60 FPS, but it dips now and then, i.e. when it rains. Just wondering if this is something I should look into.
I play The Witcher 3 on high/ultra, with in-game v-sync on, and it's usually at 60 FPS, but it dips now and then, i.e. when it rains. Just wondering if this is something I should look into.
Even when you get a smooth 30fps following the tips in this thread, the mouse just doesn't seem great as an input device at 30fps, just honestly find it hard to deal with at that framerate. Gamepad feels much better at 30fps.
Out of curiosity, is it likely that the Steam controller gamepad will feel more janky at 30 FPS than, say, an Xbox controller? (Unless maybe a southpaw setup is used to use the joystick on the left side as the "look around / camera pan" option?)
I assume that will depend on how good it turns out to be.
The better it is, the more it will expose the inherent insufficiency of 30 FPS, just like the mouse (king of input devices) does
I assume that will depend on how good it turns out to be.
The better it is, the more it will expose the inherent insufficiency of 30 FPS, just like the mouse (king of input devices) does
Lol, yeah if this thing does what it's supposed to do then you'll be right.
Soodanim
Gold Member
Oh, that's what that is! The first time I got that was before I went G-Sync and was messing with settings in New Vegas. It kept happening about 10 seconds into loading a particular save and I thought my then new 970 was dying already.
It's a circular track pad, so it will feel the same as a mouse. Sticks can feel better because you're just pushing the camera at an engine-set speed instead of moving the camera from A-B in a much shorter time. Any fast movement looks better in higher framerates. It's the same reason FPSs and driving games are the best for noticing 120fps+.
