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A polite discourse amongst friends on the importance of MP-elements in No Man's Sky

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SomTervo

Member
Some people find other things interesting and fun. Some want that feeling of that universe being real and there. And that is OK.

And if they are going to patch all that major stuff in, they should lay out a roadmap for the next year or so, so people know what they'll get when buying the game. But honestly, then they should have said so before.

You're definitely right about that.

I agree about the roadmap, too, but it goes both ways. We can talk to aliens in the game and they have individual economies, faction preferences/allegiances, and even 'choose your own adventure' style puzzles and moments.

They didn't announce that feature at all until May because they weren't sure it would work in the game. So they left off stuff they didn't think would work.

I think they'll get more transparent now that the game is out, honestly.
 
Considering the stark different in tone between this thread and the OT, I would argue that they have been clear and they have delivered on that experience.
I'm just saying, that if some people are put off by a few negative headlines about a game, that is on the developer who didn't include in the game what they talked about. Not the users discussing said lacking features.

I'm sure NMS is a fun game. I have heard a ton of good things about it. But some things aren't there and it's pretty normal to wonder: "Hey, what happened there?"

You're definitely right about that.

I agree about the roadmap, too, but it goes both ways. We can talk to aliens in the game and they have individual economies, faction preferences/allegiances, and even 'choose your own adventure' style puzzles and moments.

They didn't announce that feature at all until May because they weren't sure it would work in the game. So they left off stuff they didn't think would work.

I think they'll get more transparent now that the game is out, honestly.
I hope so. As I understand they are planning on supporting the game for a long time. And they have a good base to work from here, so I hope they improve it even further.
 
People will never be satisfied with anything, what a shame all the people talking nonesense about Sean Murray, disgusting

Ij9D9GD.jpg


Prove it's nonsense.
 

SomTervo

Member
This just proves that these guys must have known they wouldn't deliver.
I hope this game bombs.

This is the kind of bullshit pseudo-shitpost I'm talking about.

1. I just refuted the majority of the things he says in that post. Why don't you try playing the game yourself?

2. The game has delivered for lots and lots of people. And they're a team of 12 people. What do you think they did, sit on their haunches for three years?

3. Why the fuck would you wish a game bomb for somebody? They haven't been corrupt here. They're an independent team who have badly mismanaged their PR. But they aren't full blown corrupt or full blown lying about their game experience like Molyneux or Wright.

So, by normal indie standards this is a very ambitious and good looking indie survival game. Normally it would be a welcome surprise (a non-early access survival game? wow), the dev would get lots of feedback and adjust the game over a period of time, creating an innovative game that would stand out as one of the best indies of 2016.

Now what happened was that NMS was uplifted to AAA status, slapped with a $60 price tag and the dev was let loose with no communication strategy. This resulted in expectations quickly passing any sense of reality and led to disappointment being the only viable outcome.

I hope other devs can learn from this.

Seems like a good analysis. I think Sean Murray being their entire PR management and presence was probably a mistake, too, haha.
 

ViciousDS

Banned
If people ever complain about why we get 12 Assassins Creeds, 7 Halos, 4 Uncharteds, 8 Forzas, 15 CoD, 4 God of Wars, 15+ Final Fantasies just point them to this thread. Because when someone actually comes up with something relatively different the internet just shits on it completely. They nitpick every single thing instead of enjoying the game.

Note to self never create something for people to enjoy.

Completely being lied about a product isn't nitpicking junior.
 

Bedlam

Member
If people ever complain about why we get 12 Assassins Creeds, 7 Halos, 4 Uncharteds, 8 Forzas, 15 CoD, 4 God of Wars, 15+ Final Fantasies just point them to this thread. Because when someone actually comes up with something relatively different the internet just shits on it completely. They nitpick every single thing instead of enjoying the game.

Note to self never create something for people to enjoy.
Don't be a Molyneux, don't overpromise.
 

Gestault

Member
I think its a lot of things. I think people are upset they can't see random people in the game. Which is fine he said you could play with others its was just unlikely. He shouldn't have left that window open.

I think people are wrapped up in the hivemind and are just complaining for the sake of complaining. I mean why would you want to travel between systems without warping. It would literally take you years so I'm not sure why this is feature to be wanted.

I get wanting to see the sun but in reality it's just going to kill you if you get to close. If this is really labeled as a simulation as some in this thread have tried to prove your ship would melt before you even got close enough to give it a good look.

People like what they know. HG PR leaves a lot to be desired but I can still fly planet to planet without loading. I can fly to another system with minimal loading. I have fucked up animals all over the place. Poisonous atmospheres. Poisonous plants. Animals who attack. Giant dinosaur looking things. Storms. Water planets. All of these things are in the game right now and all people want to do are focus about the smaller things that in the larger picture FOR MOST PEOPLE just don't effect the game all that much.

I did read what you wrote, just to be clear, but I honestly have to ask about the bolded: Are you're being serious on this? I think a lot of reasonable people would disagree with that. The hive-mind thing implies that the concerns don't have merit (or just aren't valid).
 

SomTervo

Member
Completely being lied about a product isn't nitpicking junior.

He didn't completely lie though. The majority of the game's systems and experiences that were promised are in the game and are great.

They lied about a few things obviously - which is real bad - and for some people those things are important.

But "completely lied about [the] product"? Come on.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
I'd almost be afraid to ask but is there anything they promised actually in the game? Or is it all mirrors and smoke?

You should ask this in the OT. People playing the game, and they have mentioned what they delivered and did not deliver on in there.
 
Thanks for proving my point, i bet you wouldn't be so brave telling the guy on his face all the crap you write in here


That was the first thing I posted in this thread though ?

Absolutely, if I was in front of him would ask him why all these features he promised us in the game aren't in the actual game.
 

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
Do you think people's criticisms are rooted in the game playing differently from other games? Or maybe something else?
I think "something else" is certainly letting a lot of people off the hook in this thread for some pretty poorly justified criticism.
 

SomTervo

Member
People sometimes miss out on something good because they buy into a sense of negativity around it, and that is a bummer. I totally get you there.

Ya. Happening at least once per page in this thread.

Then Hello Games should have been clear about what that experience would be.

They have been entirely clear about what the "experience" is. I'm playing it right now and it's exactly what they described it as.

In broad strokes. The strokes which are important. Your played, gameplay experience.

There are details which obviously haven't come through and it's really bad they weren't more honest about that.

Sorry, you're correct, I misread what you wrote. :)

However, I stand by my opinion that the disappointment around this issue is not being facetious.

Disappointment around this issue? No, not facetious.

Disappointment around the entire game, and labelling it ubiquitously a failure? Yes. Definitely.
 

flkraven

Member
You should ask this in the OT. People playing the game, and they have mentioned what they delivered and did not deliver on in there.

I would say ask in the impressions thread, but regardless you are going to get a skewed option. These first few days seems to be a big crowd of overly negative people that wanted the game to fail or overly optimistic hype machines that knew NMS was GOTY before they booted it up.
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
But the game is still fun and still an achievement.

I won't lie that it's very much a crock of shit that Sean promised multiple things which haven't come to fruition. That is bad practice - and honestly I really hope he owns up to all of it. It's the right thing to do and we all need it at this stage. He needs to face the music.

But unlike Fable, Spore, and other games in the vein, No Man's Sky has still met is scope in every way that matters and is still a fun, expansive game. I can't say the same for what I played of Molyneux and Wright's titles.

Tbh the primary reason I'm raging in this thread is the people who are stopping by and writing off the entire game without trying it, based on this thread. That is just fucking tragic. They might still love their experience even though a check on the back of a box isn't being met.

What's really tragic is this modern gamer mentality that someone needs to drop 60 to try something for themselves. There's nothing wrong with relying on opinions you know and trust to save somr money.
 

Nafai1123

Banned
I'm just saying, that if some people are put off by a few negative headlines about a game, that is on the developer who didn't include in the game what they talked about. Not the users discussing said lacking features.

I'm sure NMS is a fun game. I have heard a ton of good things about it. But some things aren't there and it's pretty normal to wonder: "Hey, what happened there?"


I hope so. As I understand they are planning on supporting the game for a long time. And they have a good base to work from here, so I hope they improve it even further.

Oh definitely, I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting answers. This thread is not that though. Much of it is hate, misunderstanding of each other, misunderstanding of the game, and a complete lack of empathy towards the developers. Wanting answers is fine. Calling people liars and thieves because you haven't yet gotten an answer after 2 days is something different entirely.

We will get answers, it's only a matter of time. In the meantime, I'd much rather enjoy the game for what it is than complain about what it isn't.
 
I'd almost be afraid to ask but is there anything they promised actually in the game? Or is it all mirrors and smoke?

Speaking as someone who has already pre-ordered the game and is looking forward to playing it, it sounds like a lot of the intrigue and mystique of this game was overblown. I know people will hate me saying this, but it's pretty much Minecraft in space... without base building. The entire thing is harvesting resources, using those resources to build and buy better gear, and moving on to new planets so you can do that loop over and over again.
 
In NMS, do you actually fly between planets? If so then yeah, it's totally fucked that you can't fly to the nearest star.
Sure, it's fucked if that's what they promised.

However, it's no more than ~10 light hours between planets in our own solar system (since all planets are within ~5 light hours of the sun,) and if my math is right, the closest star is more than 3500 times as far away (4.2 light years.) If it takes 5 minutes to get between the furthest planets in a NMS solar system, then it would be "realistic" to taking over 290 hours to get to the nearest solar system. It's not really "fucked" if a game abstracts that out (excepting, as I mentioned, that was what they had promised.)
 

Big Nikus

Member
I'm gonna put this here since it's basically the "disappointment thread" about NMS:
https://steamdb.info/app/275850/
According to this, the game is excluded from the Family Sharing service on Steam. Which is a damn shame for people like me, because we were gonna split the cost with my girlfriend. We're both semi-broke so we can't afford the full price, and now I see that we won't be able to have different saves even if we use a different account.
I was so hyped for this game but the lack of communication these past couple of days, and being unable to share it with someone... fuck :/

How is it on PS4 ? Can you have a second account and a different save ?
 
Oh definitely, I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting answers. This thread is not that though. Much of it is hate, misunderstanding of each other, misunderstanding of the game, and a complete lack of empathy towards the developers. Wanting answers is fine. Calling people liars and thieves because you haven't yet gotten an answer after 2 days is something different entirely.

We will get answers, it's only a matter of time. In the meantime, I'd much rather enjoy the game for what it is than complain about what it isn't.

This.
 

Purkake4

Banned
If people ever complain about why we get 12 Assassins Creeds, 7 Halos, 4 Uncharteds, 8 Forzas, 15 CoD, 4 God of Wars, 15+ Final Fantasies just point them to this thread. Because when someone actually comes up with something relatively different the internet just shits on it completely. They nitpick every single thing instead of enjoying the game.

Note to self never create something for people to enjoy.
This is nonsense. There have been loads of amazing new and innovative games throughout the year, one of them kind of disappointing doesn't make any of the other ones any less good or diverse. Try Enter the Gungeon, The Witness, Darkest Dungeon, Superhot, Hyper Light Drifter, Battlefleet Gothic: Armada or Quadrilateral Cowboy.
 

SomTervo

Member
What's really tragic is this modern gamer mentality that someone needs to drop 60 to try something for themselves. There's nothing wrong with relying on opinions you know and trust to save somr money.

To play devil's advocate; you can return games (esp. on Steam), or sell them on/trade them back if on console. You can try games at friends' houses. You can rent them from redbox, boomerang; etc.

To my original point: I'm not saying "you must spend £40 to try this game before you make up your mind". I'm saying "don't jump on a crazy negativity bandwagon which doesn't actually describe, in any way, what the game experience is like"
 

SomTervo

Member
Oh definitely, I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting answers. This thread is not that though. Much of it is hate, misunderstanding of each other, misunderstanding of the game, and a complete lack of empathy towards the developers. Wanting answers is fine. Calling people liars and thieves because you haven't yet gotten an answer after 2 days is something different entirely.

We will get answers, it's only a matter of time. In the meantime, I'd much rather enjoy the game for what it is than complain about what it isn't.

Nailed it, G.B.

image.php
 

Sounder2

Member
I did read what you wrote, just to be clear, but I honestly have to ask about the bolded: Are you're being serious on this? I think a lot of reasonable people would disagree with that. The hive-mind thing implies that the concerns don't have merit (or just aren't valid).

On this platform and other digital platforms yeah I'm being serious. I think if you found 100 people outside this forum and reddit that play the game and asked them about the same concerns that prompted this 130+ page thread you'd find that its really not important to the overall userbase.

I think people here find it important and I think that's fine, people can determine value of their interests on their own. When people see other people get angry and riled up over an issue they get angry and riled up and it spirals off. I'd be curious to know how many people in this thread even own the game and have tried it to see if they even like it before jumping in here. I really like the game. I think it has some issues but I can clearly see those issues aren't game breaking issues. If you read through this thread as an outsider you'd think the game wouldn't even turn on and you were just out $60 and looking at a black screen.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and setting the worth of the features they are interested in. MP may be game breaking to you. Skyboxes may be game breaking to someone else. In the overall scheme of how the game plays and what it is those issues just don't affect gameplay.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Oh definitely, I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting answers. This thread is not that though. Much of it is hate, misunderstanding of each other, misunderstanding of the game, and a complete lack of empathy towards the developers. Wanting answers is fine. Calling people liars and thieves because you haven't yet gotten an answer after 2 days is something different entirely.

We will get answers, it's only a matter of time. In the meantime, I'd much rather enjoy the game for what it is than complain about what it isn't.

Hit the nail on the head.

Completely being lied about a product isn't nitpicking junior.

Hyperbole skills down pat, member.
 

Sianos

Member
Seems like they aimed too high and too broad in scope - and most importantly, they aimed to reach those high and broad marks far, far too quickly. Game either needed much more time in the oven or to refocus its scope.

Their attempt to create a single massive universe seems to have undermined the rest of the game. Initially there were some incredible plans for multiplayer features, but those have sadly fallen through. Without them, we lose the main selling point for having a single massive universe in the first place and the justification for the concession that were made to attempt such an ambitious multiplayer idea. For single player experiences, having a deeper world generation algorithm system on a smaller scale similar to Dwarf Fortress would have been far superior. Focus more on enhancing the physics of the universe and allowing for emergent gameplay possibilities born out of biome generation algorithms and interactions between systems. It's also worth noting that Dwarf Fortress is just beginning to explore it's true potential in the alpha stages, and that game has been in development for twice as long as No Man's Sky.

It's an admirable attempt on their part, and I imagine that the developers feel worst of all about not fully achieving their vision.
 
Sure, it's fucked if that's what they promised.

However, it's no more than ~10 light hours between planets in our own solar system (since all planets are within ~5 light hours of the sun,) and if my math is right, the closest star is more than 3500 times as far away (4.2 light years.) If it takes 5 minutes to get between the furthest planets in a NMS solar system, then it would be "realistic" to taking over 290 hours to get to the nearest solar system. It's not really "fucked" if a game abstracts that out (excepting, as I mentioned, that was what they had promised.)

I believe he means you cannot fly to the star in the actual star system.
 

Ferrio

Banned
Oh definitely, I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting answers. This thread is not that though. Much of it is hate, misunderstanding of each other, misunderstanding of the game, and a complete lack of empathy towards the developers. Wanting answers is fine. Calling people liars and thieves because you haven't yet gotten an answer after 2 days is something different entirely.

We will get answers, it's only a matter of time. In the meantime, I'd much rather enjoy the game for what it is than complain about what it isn't.

Would upvote if I could.
 

flkraven

Member
Oh definitely, I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting answers. This thread is not that though. Much of it is hate, misunderstanding of each other, misunderstanding of the game, and a complete lack of empathy towards the developers. Wanting answers is fine. Calling people liars and thieves because you haven't yet gotten an answer after 2 days is something different entirely.

We will get answers, it's only a matter of time. In the meantime, I'd much rather enjoy the game for what it is than complain about what it isn't.

Literally 90% of it is people wanting answers, and the other 10% is arguing with people coming in saying we are monsters, that we are mean to Sean, or complete idiots for assuming this is an Mmo.
 

DylanEno

Member
Safest just type the relevant quote up man. Maybe add a pic of the cover to show you have it, but even that's probably not necessary.

I was wrong - I'm pretty sure this is a different article, but still pretty interesting and relevant to the subject at hand.

A Different Kind of Multiplayer

Hello Games receives all kinds of questions about the multiplayer, with people excited to play with their friends. Managing director Sean Murray wants to dispel all that talk. "I think when people see [the galactic map] they are going to fully realize what it means to be that far away from somebody else who's playing. And I know that's a bit weird for people, but it's what's different about our game. And we want to embrace that. We don't want people just scouting off beside their friends. I actually want people to boot up the game and just think, 'Isn't the universe huge? Who are we? What are we all doing here?'"

Outside of seeing your friends' stats and their location on the galactic map, you will likely never meet up with them (though an in-game messaging system has been teased). The closest comparison is the multiplayer in Journey, except it will be far more rare. Other players won't have their online handle floating above them. They won't be able to voice chat. If they're in a ship, you might fly past them without ever knowing they are a real person.

In fact, the first time you see another player will be the first time you realize what your character looks like. "I think we will probably surprise people in terms of how they look," Murray says. "You will effectively see their suit, so you won't know what's inside. It still won't answer for people whether you are an alien or whether you are a human or what you look like."

CUghauy.jpg
 

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
Oh definitely, I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting answers. This thread is not that though. Much of it is hate, misunderstanding of each other, misunderstanding of the game, and a complete lack of empathy towards the developers. Wanting answers is fine. Calling people liars and thieves because you haven't yet gotten an answer after 2 days is something different entirely.

We will get answers, it's only a matter of time. In the meantime, I'd much rather enjoy the game for what it is than complain about what it isn't.

it would take how long to answer this? It's not a complex question.

He's obviously aware people want to know because the last set of tweets are specifically about this without actually confirmed or denying it. Just more vague non answers.

also keep in mind the PC version is set to release any moment. It wouldn't hurt to know before they ask people to buy it.
 

elyetis

Member
I'm gonna put this here since it's basically the "disappointment thread" about NMS:
https://steamdb.info/app/275850/
According to this, the game is excluded from the Family Sharing service on Steam.
Does many game do that ? I didn't even know they could. To be honest I don't really use that functionality much thought I did add my father so he could try some of my games when he brought his new computer, so at least someone could make us of my huge backlog.
Worst case scenario it still doesn't prevent people from sharing their account, it's just far less user friendly.
 

SomTervo

Member
Seems like they aimed too high and too broad in scope - and most importantly, they aimed to reach those high and broad marks far, far too quickly. Game either needed much more time in the oven or to refocus its scope.

Their attempt to create a single massive universe seems to have undermined the rest of the game.

It hasn't man. Seriously. People like you - no offence intended - are talking about the game like you've played it or like you're intimately familiar with it. You're not.

The insane scope they planned for the game is still there. There are still an unfathomable amount of star systems, planets and creatures. There's a pretty damn compelling lore. You can still make 200 warps towards the center of the galaxy and be 0.01% closer to your destination. You can still look at a planet or moon in the sky, lift off from your planet, fly straight at the other planet or moon, reach its atmosphere, land on it and start walking around (usually finding odd new plants or creatures or buildings immediately). You can still find unique, crazy ship designs and buy them and enter dogfights in space.

All the stuff they aimed to deliver, they have delivered. There's a lot of stuff which is, relatively, fine print (which people blew out of proportion, and that's not people's fault) like the physical space between planets, the sun having a physical presence (though I don't think they officially commented on it), planetary orbits, the multiplayer thing - many of which have definitely slipped through the net and haven't been met. The real problem is that the developers haven't commented on these things.

But the overall experience they promised? Totally fucking delivered.

I am enjoying the game far too much to worry about skyboxes and non orbiting planets.

But that's just me.

Samsies
 
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