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AMD Polaris architecture to succeed Graphics Core Next

I'm confused, is Polaris a new name for Arctic Islands, or are both names are correct, like one being a GPU name, one being an architecture name, or what?

Arctic Islands / Polaris.

The biggest GPU in this family is meant to be Greenland.

No, Polaris replaces GCN as the graphics architecture.

Arctic Islands replaces Volcanic Islands as the new series of GPUs. Arctic Island's Greenland is what's coming in 2016 and will be the 400-series GPUs. Greenland follows Volcanic Islands' Fiji (Fury cards).
 

Locuza

Member
Whether this will or won't be a rebrand will depend on how much changes there will be in Polaris compared to GCN. Considering AMD's financial conditions and their continuing reduction in R&D expenditures I'm not expecting much but I do hope that they will at least improve their perf/watt with Polaris not only because of a new process.
It can't be a rebrand if it's on a new process.
But the rest of course... (I hope not)
 

grumble

Member
2016 is AMD's year of last chances. Polaris and Zen need to be not just competitive but superior to the Nvidia and Intel equivalents if the company is to survive. This really is the end of the line for AMD. The entire fate of the company now depends on Polaris and Zen, they have no money left to limp along with another line of failed products the way they did with Bulldozer and rebrand the same thing forever with GCN all these years and their marketshare and mindshare were nearing zero in 2015.

Do or do not, AMD. There is no try.

Why not just make cards that are similar at a better price point? Chances are good that amd's cpus will be a bit worse than intel's, but for gaming who cares? The current batch of CPUs are overkill for gaming needs and if we can get similar performance for a better price point we should definitely consider them for builds.

As for the graphics cards, it seems like amd offers similar or better performance at most price points, with the exception of the top end.

The expectations for amd are frankly unfair. No one is willing to switch unless amd makes way better chips for a way cheaper price and hands out free candy with every purchase. Amd does need to improve in some ways, but not as much as many posters here seem to think.

What they need is a better marketing group to change this messed up narrative. They should be investing like crazy to educate people on this.
 
This idea that AMD needs Greenland to significantly best Nvidia's Pascal before their marketshare decline stops is nonsense.

If the flagship Greenland card just matches the Pascal equivalent but somehow runs a little cooler and draws less power, that will be enough for a lot of enthusiasts to switch back to AMD. And what the enthusiasts choose has an effect on general gamers' buying habits too.

If you actually observe the real state of affairs right now you'll see that at some price points performance is similar between Red and Green but overclockability, power draw, thermals are all on Nvidias side. If the reverse were true, AMD would have a much bigger market share I am sure.
 

Reallink

Member
Why not just make cards that are similar at a better price point? Chances are good that amd's cpus will be a bit worse than intel's, but for gaming who cares? The current batch of CPUs are overkill for gaming needs and if we can get similar performance for a better price point we should definitely consider them for builds.

As for the graphics cards, it seems like amd offers similar or better performance at most price points, with the exception of the top end.

The expectations for amd are frankly unfair. No one is willing to switch unless amd makes way better chips for a way cheaper price and hands out free candy with every purchase. Amd does need to improve in some ways, but not as much as many posters here seem to think.

What they need is a better marketing group to change this messed up narrative. They should be investing like crazy to educate people on this.

It's not unfair at all. Popular belief is Nvidia has basically shifted all their cards up a price tier and down a performance tier due to AMD's ineptitude, and they still can't keep up. Nvidia has basically handicapped themselves in price:performance and you're making excuses for AMD not even being able to compete with their second bests. At some point you just have to say ok, these guys just can't hack it and aren't really adding anything to the market. They probably have less than 10% dgpu market share at this point and are functionally nothing but a token monopoly shield like their CPU's are to Intel.
 

Akuun

Looking for meaning in GAF
I hope it performs well, but I'm not holding my breath. I've been burned too many times in the past.

I like AMD and really want to support them, but it takes so much more fiddling to actually get their cards performing without hitches or random ass frame pauses, even if the frame rates (and sometimes frame times) are comparable on paper. I've always bought AMD in my computers but I am very likely to switch to Nvidia for my next computer if AMD doesn't get their shit together.
 

Crzy1

Member
I guess we'll see how it performs. I just seems like every launch they've had recently hasn't gone all that well for them while Nvidia keeps firing on all cylinders (even the uproar against the GTX 970 memory issue didn't slow them down).

I'm waiting for someone to release the next 8800 GTX and really blow the performance numbers of the previous generation out of the water. The step down to 14nm, HMB 2.0 and DX12 seems like the perfect storm for AMD to grab that performance crown back decisively.
 

AmyS

Member
No, Polaris replaces GCN as the graphics architecture.

Arctic Islands replaces Volcanic Islands as the new series of GPUs. Arctic Island's Greenland is what's coming in 2016 and will be the 400-series GPUs. Greenland follows Volcanic Islands' Fiji (Fury cards).

Right, and both Volcanic Islands and Pirate Islands were largely the same architecture, so I guess Arctic Islands is replacing both.
 
This idea that AMD needs Greenland to significantly best Nvidia's Pascal before their marketshare decline stops is nonsense.

If the flagship Greenland card just matches the Pascal equivalent but somehow runs a little cooler and draws less power, that will be enough for a lot of enthusiasts to switch back to AMD. And what the enthusiasts choose has an effect on general gamers' buying habits too.

If you actually observe the real state of affairs right now you'll see that at some price points performance is similar between Red and Green but overclockability, power draw, thermals are all on Nvidias side. If the reverse were true, AMD would have a much bigger market share I am sure.

Possibly, but there are non-obvious Green benefits, most notably, games tend to work better at launch on the green side, along with the benefits of nvidia gameworks/cuda. Don't get me wrong, i'd love AMD to do well, i fondly remember my ati 9800, but i cant recommend AMD to my friends, who are not computer competent. There would have to be a large difference between AMD and Nvidia, for me to recommend the Red side for those people. For me, I'm not so bothered about things not just working, but i'll probably never go AMD, as openGL/Linux support is crucial for my work
 

Irobot82

Member
It's not unfair at all. Popular belief is Nvidia has basically shifted all their cards up a price tier and down a performance tier due to AMD's ineptitude, and they still can't keep up. Nvidia has basically handicapped themselves in price:performance and you're making excuses for AMD not even being able to compete with their second bests. At some point you just have to say ok, these guys just can't hack it and aren't really adding anything to the market. They probably have less than 10% dgpu market share at this point and are functionally nothing but a token monopoly shield like their CPU's are to Intel.

Wow. This thread doesn't stop entertaining. This has got to be the largest chunk of FUD I've read in years. Nvidia does not have some secret GPU they didn't release because AMD couldn't release a card a tier above a 980ti. The 980ti is Nvidia's top card.
 

LCGeek

formerly sane
I guess we'll see how it performs. I just seems like every launch they've had recently hasn't gone all that well for them while Nvidia keeps firing on all cylinders (even the uproar against the GTX 970 memory issue didn't slow them down).

I'm waiting for someone to release the next 8800 GTX and really blow the performance numbers of the previous generation out of the water. The step down to 14nm, HMB 2.0 and DX12 seems like the perfect storm for AMD to grab that performance crown back decisively.

Not if they keep bungling driver features or support. There are no excuses anymore for great hardware but crap drivers that make them gimped or worse off than nvidia counter parts.
 

eXMomoj

Member
For the sake of the consumer I hope these are good cards. Nvidia needs some more stiff competition to drive their prices down. They've been pretty much keeping the same price of their current generation cards for over a year now and people are still buying them up.
 

Locuza

Member
Right, and both Volcanic Islands and Pirate Islands were largely the same architecture, so I guess Arctic Islands is replacing both.
There is no thing like Pirate Islands.

(GCN 1.0) Southern Islands, GCN Gen 1, IP v6
(GCN 1.1) Sea Islands, GCN Gen 2, IP v7
(GCN 1.2) Volcanic Islands, GCN Gen 3, IP v8

That's what we have right now and how AMD technically documents it.
 

BashNasty

Member
While I would be extremely unlikely to ever buy an AMD card, I still really want them to make a great one.

Nvidia needs the competition.
 

Reallink

Member
Wow. This thread doesn't stop entertaining. This has got to be the largest chunk of FUD I've read in years. Nvidia does not have some secret GPU they didn't release because AMD couldn't release a card a tier above a 980ti. The 980ti is Nvidia's top card.

Huh, secret GPU? I'm talking about the advent of the X80Ti and Titan which (before AMD's offerings shit the bed and their market share imploded) did not exist and were simply released as the standard X80. Nvidia's whole line has shifted up a price tier and down a performance tier to accommodate them, wholly afforded by AMD's failures. That is not FUD or a conspiracy theory.
 

GSG Flash

Nobody ruins my family vacation but me...and maybe the boy!
IMO this accounts for maybe 5% of the people who claim they are. i think the other 95% just use it when its in their favor to suit their own illogical gpu biases.

I agree. Not to mention that under load, both of AMD and Nvidia's offerings perform similarly when it comes to heat and power.

Right now the 390 and 390x are definitely much better value than the 970 and 980, especially if you're like me and you don't overclock your gpu.
 
I got 960 over 380X, would have been idiotic to buy 380X. Was over 140€ less, or would someone say 380X is worth 140€ more then 960? :p

from my price checking in america, a 380x is 20$ more than a 960. absolutely worth it.

its also worth noting, that even the fury x seems to have caught or surpassed the 980ti at 1440p+ now that more modern games are being used across the gamut of benchmark reviews and amd continues to improve its drivers.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GTX_980_Ti_Waterforce/23.html

Possibly, but there are non-obvious Green benefits, most notably, games tend to work better at launch on the green side, along with the benefits of nvidia gameworks/cuda. Don't get me wrong, i'd love AMD to do well, i fondly remember my ati 9800, but i cant recommend AMD to my friends, who are not computer competent. There would have to be a large difference between AMD and Nvidia, for me to recommend the Red side for those people. For me, I'm not so bothered about things not just working, but i'll probably never go AMD, as openGL/Linux support is crucial for my work

you can probably count on 1 hand the number of gameworks effects that run only on nvidia and actually work for the last couple years. hardly an advantage
 

Rizific

Member
when is this coming out? really had my eyes set on a 970, my last 3 gpus had been AMD simply because they were ahead in the price/performance for my budged at the time. wanted to give nvidia a try this time around.
 

AmyS

Member
There is no thing like Pirate Islands.

(GCN 1.0) Southern Islands, GCN Gen 1, IP v6
(GCN 1.1) Sea Islands, GCN Gen 2, IP v7
(GCN 1.2) Volcanic Islands, GCN Gen 3, IP v8

That's what we have right now and how AMD technically documents it.

Alright thanks for the clarification on that.
 

Hypron

Member
Right now the 390 and 390x are definitely much better value than the 970 and 980, especially if you're like me and you don't overclock your gpu.

Depends on a couple of things I reckon. I went for a 970 instead of a 390 because getting one with a good quiet cooler was $50 cheaper where I live (and the 970 is still quieter).
 

thelastword

Banned
It's not unfair at all. Popular belief is Nvidia has basically shifted all their cards up a price tier and down a performance tier due to AMD's ineptitude, and they still can't keep up. Nvidia has basically handicapped themselves in price:performance and you're making excuses for AMD not even being able to compete with their second bests. At some point you just have to say ok, these guys just can't hack it and aren't really adding anything to the market. They probably have less than 10% dgpu market share at this point and are functionally nothing but a token monopoly shield like their CPU's are to Intel.
Come on link, that's not true at all. I've been going through quite a few benchmarks of late and the 390 beats the 970 in the majority of tests, yes it's noisier, yes it consumes more cycles, but it can also operate comfortably at higher temps than Nvidia. Now try overclocking a 970 to gain the extra 5-15 frames the 390 beats it by and it becomes very noisy and consumes just as much power.

TBH, I believe AMD has the hardware right now to gain marketshare from NVIDIA but some aspects of their gameplan are still behind team green. Take for e.g...cpu usage, pretty much every AMD GPU has a higher stake on your CPU during benches, lowering that could have them see some benefits in performance in (dx9,10 and 11 games). Perhaps that's what they did with the recent AMD drivers as we've witnessed some notable improvements in performance from their GPU's, meaning that the hardware has always been there......

The sad thing is, nobody wants to go against the popular team for fear of missing out on a feature or two, team green has all the popular extras right now, like the works stuff, which some will swear by that they need in their games and Nvidia will ensure that it maintains that hold on green fans, because they will ensure that hairworks don't work as well on competitive cards.

Look at benches of the 390 v the 970 in Withcer 3 and notice that the 390 is ahead at all times, turn on hairworks and see how much performance is lost by the better performer with the feature on. It's all a ploy to keep themselves planted in and they surely have the fanbase who would take lower frames in games, 3.5 GB of ram over 8GB because they swear by hairworks, it has become part of their gaming sub-consciousness.

It is what it is, people will look past the main thing, (performance) and applaud software like shadowplay, features like DSR and speak of CUDA cores and PHYSX as listed reasons why they will remain on team green.

The truth is, the monopoly is already established, so it will be very difficult for another manufacturer to break through. I think AMD is looking the best they have in recent years, but if they have to break through, they have to outdo NVIDIA in every category; power efficiency, performance, drivers, GPU features and software, form factor.......They do have performance covered on many sku's already, I'm seeing the strides they're making in their software and drivers, kudos for the form factor on their fury's and nano's, but they'll have to combine all of the above and come very good with Polaris to break through.
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
I hope it performs well, but I'm not holding my breath. I've been burned too many times in the past.

I like AMD and really want to support them, but it takes so much more fiddling to actually get their cards performing without hitches or random ass frame pauses, even if the frame rates (and sometimes frame times) are comparable on paper. I've always bought AMD in my computers but I am very likely to switch to Nvidia for my next computer if AMD doesn't get their shit together.
Buy a 144hz Gsync monitor or you're going to stuck with frame time garbage anyway. The grass is not greener without Gsync.
 
Come on link, that's not true at all. I've been going through quite a few benchmarks of late and the 390 beats the 970 in the majority of tests, yes it's noisier, yes it consumes more cycles, but it can also operate comfortably at higher temps than Nvidia. Now try overclocking a 970 to gain the extra 5-15 frames the 390 beats it by and it becomes very noisy and consumes just as much power.

TBH, I believe AMD has the hardware right now to gain marketshare from NVIDIA but some aspects of their gameplan are still behind team green. Take for e.g...cpu usage, pretty much every AMD GPU has a higher stake on your CPU during benches, lowering that could have them see some benefits in performance in (dx9,10 and 11 games). Perhaps that's what they did with the recent AMD drivers as we've witnessed some notable improvements in performance from their GPU's, meaning that the hardware has always been there......

The sad thing is, nobody wants to go against the popular team for fear of missing out on a feature or two, team green has all the popular extras right now, like the works stuff, which some will swear by that they need in their games and Nvidia will ensure that it maintains that hold on green fans, because they will ensure that hairworks don't work as well on competitive cards.

Look at benches of the 390 v the 970 in Withcer 3 and notice that the 390 is ahead at all times, turn on hairworks and see how much performance is lost by the better performer with the feature on. It's all a ploy to keep themselves planted in and they surely have the fanbase who would take lower frames in games, 3.5 GB of ram over 8GB because they swear by hairworks, it has become part of their gaming sub-consciousness.

It is what it is, people will look past the main thing, (performance) and applaud software like shadowplay, features like DSR and speak of CUDA cores and PHYSX as listed reasons why they will remain on team green.

The truth is, the monopoly is already established, so it will be very difficult for another manufacturer to break through. I think AMD is looking the best they have in recent years, but if they have to break through, they have to outdo NVIDIA in every category; power efficiency, performance, drivers, GPU features and software, form factor.......They do have performance covered on many sku's already, I'm seeing the strides they're making in their software and drivers, kudos for the form factor on their fury's and nano's, but they'll have to combine all of the above and come very good with Polaris to break through.

AMD has better hardware at nearly every pricepoint but people just blindly buy nvidia without looking into reviews. i would only buy nvidia at >600$ and <150$. at all the pricepoints inbetween you cant even use any of the nvidia only features anyway because your gpu is too slow so its moot.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Would be awesome if NX used this but that is highly unlikely.

Not even possible considering when they would have needed to start development on NX. Not that it matters since Nintendo aren't going to go for 'cutting edge' tech to begin with.
 
If Polaris is GCN 2.0 re branded. Then the NX is probably could have some tech based on it. especially since AMD announced this road-map back when rumors with their Nintendo collaboration were starting to spring up.
 
If Polaris is GCN 2.0 re branded. Then the NX is probably could have some tech based on it. especially since AMD announced this road-map back when rumors with their Nintendo collaboration were starting to spring up.

A quick reminder that Nintendo used DX10 class hardware in the Wii U even though Dx11 AMD hardware existed for about 2+ years by the time it came out. Nintendo using cutting edge architecture in the CPU and GPU would be surprising IMO.

Edit: btw, people talking about how getting a 960 is super "silly" in comparison to a 380x. Just so we all get this straight, there is quite a lot more in the AMD and NV discussion than just benchmarks for the latest AAA games. I really personally enjoy NV drivers for its legacy support including HBAO+ injection and SGSSAA. As well as actually competent open GL performance in those games that support it from time to time.

If you enjoy legacy gaming, using NV is something that is usually the more sensible route.
 
A quick reminder that Nintendo used DX10 class hardware in the Wii U even though Dx11 AMD hardware existed for about 2+ years by the time it came out. Nintendo using cutting edge architecture in the CPU and GPU would be surprising IMO.

Edit: btw, people talking about how getting a 960 is super "silly" in comparison to a 380x. Just so we all get this straight, there is quite a lot more in the AMD and NV discussion than just benchmarks for the latest AAA games. I really personally enjoy NV drivers for its legacy support including HBAO+ injection and SGSSAA. As well as actually competent open GL performance in those games that support it from time to time.

If you enjoy legacy gaming, using NV is something that is usually the more sensible route.

sgssaa is relegated to dx9 dude(i guess technically you can enable it in some dx11 games, but it hardly does anything), thats going pretty far back. and even going that far back i doubt a 960 is fast enough to use sgssaa in many of them. HBAO+ injection is usually meh and nowhere near the quality of in game hbao+ implementations. it also only works in very few games. the only recent openGL game i can think off off the top of my head is wolfenstein, and amd beats nvidia handily at it. im sure theres a scenario that can be created where a 960 is a better buy than a 380x despite being up to 50% slower(typically the newer the title, the worse nvidia fares across its entire lineup), but its going to be an extremely specific and rare occurrence.

http://gamegpu.ru/action-/-fps-/-tps/wolfenstein-the-old-blood-test-gpu.html

If Polaris is GCN 2.0 re branded. Then the NX is probably could have some tech based on it. especially since AMD announced this road-map back when rumors with their Nintendo collaboration were starting to spring up.

gcn 2.0 doesnt exist yet so how could it be rebranded?
 
sgssaa is relegated to dx9 dude

Hence why I am talking about legacy games, which was the point I was making in general.
( HBAO+ injection is usually meh and nowhere near the quality of in game hbao+ implementations.
Well, that is quite obvious, but it is missing the point. If you have seen older title's AO - if they even have it at all - it is pretty nice to have instead of default stuff. I just beat binary domain injecting it and it was MUCH better than that game's AO. My comment is targeting legacy games or less common games.
wolfenstein as being representative of historical AMD open GL performance
Wolfenstein is but one Open GL game (Rage, the last game on a previous iteration of the engine had a very interesting showing on AMD hardware). You may want to look at other game's, programs, etc that utilise Open GL. Just recently I was checking out Outerra and Overgrowth, two games which barely work on AMD. Same as above, these are legacy or just not AAA.
 
Hence why I am talking about legacy games, which was the point I was making in general.

Well, that is quite obvious, but it is missing the point. If you have seen older title's AO - if they even have it at all - it is pretty nice to have instead of default stuff. I just beat binary domain injecting it and it was MUCH better than that game's AO. My comment is targeting legacy games or less common games.

Wolfenstein is but one Open GL game (Rage, the last game on a previous iteration of the engine had a very interesting showing on AMD hardware). You may want to look at other game's, programs, etc that utilise Open GL. Just recently I was checking out Outerra and Overgrowth, two games which barely work on AMD. Same as above, these are legacy or just not AAA.

fair enough, ill say for most people, purchasing a 960 is silly.

hasnt overgrowth been in development for like 7 or 8 years? with little progress? the game is still early alpha from what i understand
 

Saintruski

Unconfirmed Member
Ski-doo, artic cat, Yamaha, nvidia code names or AMDs next ones after Polaris...if you own a snowmobile you'll get it.
 
My guess is that they will have the Arm SoC on the GPU like Xbox One but it will be upgraded.


http://www.armtechforum.com.cn/2014...ogethertoDriveDownSystemPowerandBandwidth.pdf

jT1NHdI.jpg



kZr4MSS.png
For everyone's information, onQ123 believes the ARM IP, really Cadence/ARM AXI buss, is based on ARM GPU and video processing DPUs while I believe it's Cadence -Tensilica -Xtensa HiFi Audio and IVP. The supported features are nearly the same and I too believe updated ARM IP will have an impact on efficiency. The movie industry, FCC to support a downloadable security scheme replacing the cable card and Playready 3 porting kit to support DRM needed by media require a Trusted Execution Environment and the Energy Star and EU power boards require computers to support media with power modes @ about 20 watt or below. This is an ARM SoC inside the APU or dGPU of Nvidia and AMD both, Intel has their own scheme.

AMD has been using a ARM Trustzone processor and Xtensa DPUs since 2010 in their APUs to support the UVD. Each year the UVD gets more powerful and by Kaveri and Carrizo no longer needs to use GPGPU for post processing or codecs. What is not generally known is that they were replacing their memory controllers, video controllers, southbridge and northbridge in favor of Cadence ARM IP on the ARM buss; a SoC TEE requires this.

There is a pay for view site that says the XB1 is almost entirely Cadence IP right down to the 4 memory "move" controllers. Only the X-86 CPU and GCN GPU are AMD's. AMD recently advertised that the technology used for HEVC Codecs in the XB1 is being used in AMD products. That's Xtensa HiFi and IVP to eventually support True Audio, Video Codecs and openVX needed for VR. Cadence has three IVP iterations since 2012 with IVP, IVP EP and P5 each more efficient and faster with the P5 13 times as efficient as the original IVP,

AMD's HSA is about integrating the ARM IP (DSP) and AMD X-86/GPU as well as FPGA, into one system despite all three requiring different OS Code and bus. In papers Intel is going to include FPGAs in newer GPUs as it's up to 100X more efficient at some operations; AMD will do the same but I haven't found any papers on this beyond what HSA is supposed to support.

The above are part of the efficiencies coming.

Edit: When Sony decided to use GDDR5 in the PS4 APU they moved the ARM block to the PS4 Southbridge with it's own 256 MB of DDR3.

The ARM AXI bus is a Network on Chip bus, Xtensa DPUs support NOC both internally and via the ARM AXI buss. IBM's power PC was upgraded to support Network on Chip and both Arm V8 with NOC and Power with NOC are called Oban. A canceled 2011 Xbox 360 CPU refresh was called Oban. I suspect ZEN and Arctic Islands supports NOC and it's the next HSA supported feature to allow parity with ARM using NOC. This will result in an energy efficiency due to how memory is used and reused something like with Zero copy and Zero copy requires an embedded design.

Edit: Zen/Arctic Islands/HBM are also designed for servers and servers are now using NOC. Read the introduction in this paper. and the conclusion in this paper evaluating a AMD GCN GPU. If this is true then Polaris is a major break with a GCN design.
 

SmartBase

Member
Everyone wants to "support AMD" but how many of you would actually buy their cards? You'd surely find an excuse like the power draw which is literally meaningless, when you look at the way Nvidia misleads you with their power consumption, or drivers which AMD is making great gains in.

I've switched to AMD twice in the past and both times I've regretted it with their always late (or forever late) Crossfire profiles and the usual annoying driver quirks.

I still hope they do well, just not with my business.
 
Will Polaris be backwards compatible with GCN? Otherwise low-level API (Mantle, libGNM, DX12) apps will probably break... not to mention that the PS5 won't have PS4 BC if that's the case.
 
Will Polaris be backwards compatible with GCN? Otherwise low-level API (Mantle, linGNM, DX12) apps will probably break... not to mention that the PS5 won't have PS4 BC if that's the case.

mantle is already broken on fiji, it will not work on future chips either
 
If Mantle is already broken on Fiji, then what about the rest of Mantle-like APIs (DX12, Vulkan, libGNM)?

AMD stopped building new Mantle implementations and stopped optimizing old ones. Mantle is dead, all of the work now is in DX12 and OpenGL/Vulkan implementations.
 
Why not just make cards that are similar at a better price point? Chances are good that amd's cpus will be a bit worse than intel's, but for gaming who cares? The current batch of CPUs are overkill for gaming needs and if we can get similar performance for a better price point we should definitely consider them for builds.

As for the graphics cards, it seems like amd offers similar or better performance at most price points, with the exception of the top end.

The expectations for amd are frankly unfair. No one is willing to switch unless amd makes way better chips for a way cheaper price and hands out free candy with every purchase. Amd does need to improve in some ways, but not as much as many posters here seem to think.

What they need is a better marketing group to change this messed up narrative. They should be investing like crazy to educate people on this.

The expectations for the underdog are always unfair. That's life in this business.

AMD needs to perform better and cost less. It has to be clear win for AMD or people simply will not bother to consider them when the market leaders offer a solid product which performs according to expectations and includes very nice side benefits and quality-of-life improvements.

The last time the former ATI truly won in video cards was back in 1998 with the Radeon 9800 Pro. It was straight-up superior to the GeForce FX, offered superior feature set for the iconic Half-Life 2, it ran much cooler and quieter, and it was cheaper.

The last time AMD truly won in processors was with the Athlon 64 and Athlon X2 back in the early 2000's. It was straight-up superior to the Pentium 4, it was faster and it ran cooler and it was cheaper.

The point is that AMD cannot offer similar performance. People will just choose the market leader.

On the Nvidia side, you get GeForce Experience with auto-game configuration, Shadowplay game streaming and recording, and auto-driver downloading and updating. You also get Nvidia's investments in developer relations which results in improved game experience from day 1 of release, plus the (highly questionable) benefits of Gameworks support. Nvidia has invested a lot in quality-of-life benefits for people who buy Nvidia and that will often outweigh even a moderate performance advantage for AMD in benchmarks, especially if you can overclock the Nvidia card to negate the AMD stock performance advantage. The reality is, AMD Radeon can beat a stock Nvidia Geforce by 15-20% and people will still chose Nvidia for superior quality-of-life and the option of overclocking to negate that performance deficit.

On the Intel side, well AMD hasn't been performance competitive with Intel since 2006 and the release of the Core 2 Duo. So, welp. But even if you set aside Intel's overwhelming advantage in performance, because Intel updates it's platforms regularly you get stuff like USB 3.0, PCIe 3.0, DDR4, and now M.2/NVMe support first on Intel. If you're out there buying the PC enthusiast platforms, your only choice is Intel not just for performance but also for the platform being up to date.

So yeah, life is unfair when you're AMD. That said, AMD has no one to blame for their current problems other than AMD. It's AMD that made Bulldozer with such a flawed and badly conceived microarchitecture. It's AMD that dramatically overpaid to acquire ATI and then did basically nothing with their acquisition except drive it to financial ruin. You can't blame Intel and Nvidia for that. And it's up to AMD to save themselves. Polaris and Zen are AMD's last shot and 2016 is the year that defines if AMD will survive as an independent company or not.
 

Locuza

Member
Will Polaris be backwards compatible with GCN? Otherwise low-level API (Mantle, libGNM, DX12) apps will probably break... not to mention that the PS5 won't have PS4 BC if that's the case.
No.
The apps are not running on bare metal and while it might be true that now the potential is higher for "broken" apps, it shouldn't be very likely.

DX12 is still a spec, still an abstraction, there are still drivers responding and translating API-Commands into the ISA.

AMD, Intel and Nvidia, there are all having different GPUs and they all work on DX12, without implementing or asking for every specific DX12 GPU or Architecture.
 

Kezen

Banned
No.
The apps are not running on bare metal and while it might be true that now the potential is higher for "broken" apps, it shouldn't be very likely.

DX12 is still a spec, still an abstraction, there are still drivers responding and translating API-Commands into the ISA.

AMD, Intel and Nvidia, there are all having different GPUs and they all work on DX12, without implementing or asking for every specific DX12 GPU or Architecture.

So no risk of low level APIs breaking forward compatibility ?
 
The new arch will just be a superset with more capabilities. The basic GPU setup with unified shaders has stayed basically the same since Terascale 1. There shouldn't be any real compatibility issues and a hypothetical PS5 with Zen+Polaris APU should have no problem supporting backwards compatibility.

...You can't blame Intel...

You can always blame Intel sabotaging AMD's attempts at gaining market share back in the day. They went to court and lost and had to pay more than a billion for it. Luckily they make several times that amount every quarter these days, so it probably paid off. We'll never know what the situation would be if AMD had gained more ground back then.
 

thelastword

Banned
AMD has better hardware at nearly every pricepoint but people just blindly buy nvidia without looking into reviews. i would only buy nvidia at >600$ and <150$. at all the pricepoints inbetween you cant even use any of the nvidia only features anyway because your gpu is too slow so its moot.
Yeah, the Nvidia features are mostly too expensive even on very decent cards like the 970 in most cases. Personally I'd prefer to run my games at 1440p or 4k instead of ticking the gameworks features.
 

Locuza

Member
So no risk of low level APIs breaking forward compatibility ?
I would say risks always exists.
Even DX9-11 are not 100% forward and backwards compatible.
Without driver support from the vendor you will end up in rendering bugs, stability issues and performance problems.

For DX12 the responsibility lies more heavily on the app side.
We will have to wait a while, to see how robust this new scheme will work, but if the driver and the game is playing according to the specifications nothing should break in the future.
 
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