Support NeoGAF

[General Lee]

what i don't understand is why they let 1070 and 1080 monopolize the $350+ space for nearly six months. if they had released a competitive 490 in june things would be looking different

It's the reality of AMD's financial situation. They don't have the resources to push a full lineup anymore, and are probably spending a lot on Zen and the server market they are attempting to reclaim next year. For those who want competitive high end GPUs they better hope Zen will deliver. Or alternatively fail, and the GPU division gets sold to someone who cares.

 

[Durante]

It's the reality of AMD's financial situation. They don't have the resources to push a full lineup anymore, and are probably spending a lot on Zen and the server market they are attempting to reclaim next year. For those who want competitive high end GPUs they better hope Zen will deliver. Or alternatively fail, and the GPU division gets sold to someone who cares.

I fear that anyone who could viably buy AMD's GPU business would be even less interested in high-performance gaming GPUs.

 

[Bolivar687]

With all due respect, I really wish rus, durante, and unknown soldier would stop posting in Radeon threads. AMD's market share is way up and their stock price is quadruple what it was a year ago. Making sure we're all aware that their market share fell less than a percentage point (gasp) isn't "providing more information," it just exposes what a sensitive brand warrior you are.

That said, it's only fair that I corroborate that rus is correct in stating AMD rebounded with the R9 300 series and that Polaris did not improve their existing market share. Nevertheless, it shows how far AMD has come in the last year, when they can now launch a product stack against a new Nvidia lineup and not lose any ground, especially with their forum ambassadors putting in overtime.

Again, I just want to reiterate that I'm saying this with all due respect.

 

[Durante]

With all due respect, your kettle is jet black.

And I'm absolutely never going to stop posting in any and all PC hardware threads I damn well please, thank you very much. I have been doing that since 2006, and I'll still be doing it in 2056.

 

[dr_rus]

what i don't understand is why they let 1070 and 1080 monopolize the $350+ space for nearly six months. if they had released a competitive 490 in june things would be looking different

They don't have enough money to introduce more than a couple of new GPUs per year, it's as simple as that really. You may wonder why they've chosen to fill the lower end first but this is probably related to their console business as PS4Pro is essentially re-using the Polaris 10 core with some enhancements and next year we'll be getting Scorpio which is quite likely to use some variant of Vega GPU family.

 

[WaterAstro]

I did my part and bought AMD.

 

[la_briola]

I did my part and bought AMD.

How are their Linux driver nowadays? Intel is godtier, Nvidia is pretty good, but AMD was always shite. The reason I jumped ship years ago. I would like to invest into Freesync in the future, so my interest is still here.

 

[Bolivar687]

With all due respect, your kettle is jet black.

With all due respect, you're out of your mind. I don't misconstrue Steam Survey numbers for sales data, as rus and unknown soldier have to push a biased narrative. I don't go into Nvidia threads, exaggerating a 0.8% difference to try to rain on everyone's parade. Matter of fact, I don't go into Nvidia threads at all other than to share my impressions of using a 1080 over the summer and trying to help others with their questions. I've never done anything on GAF approaching the frequency, consistency, or determination to shut down a brand I don't like, which those posters have become notorious for.

To borrow more language from PoliGAF, you're normalizing their behavior with false equivalencies.

 

[Durante]

If you can't see how incredibly one-sided the narrative you paint is then I honestly can't help you. Do you even realize that what you are doing in this thread is nothing more than the basest of rabble-rousing combined with a huge helping of backseat moderation?

 

[Inspectah_Deck]

I think nobody can deny, that some users try to steer the narrative towards a negative direction in EVERY. SINGLE. AMD thread.

Every thread ends like this, after the same old people come out of their holes.

 

[Beautiful Ninja]

With all due respect, you're out of your mind. I don't misconstrue Steam Survey numbers for sales data, as rus and unknown soldier have to push a biased narrative. I don't go into Nvidia threads, exaggerating a 0.8% difference to try to rain on everyone's parade. Matter of fact, I don't go into Nvidia threads at all other than to share my impressions of using a 1080 over the summer and trying to help others with their questions. I've never done anything on GAF approaching the frequency, consistency, or determination to shut down a brand I don't like, which those posters have become notorious for.

To borrow more language from PoliGAF, you're normalizing their behavior with false equivalencies.

It's not about exaggerating a 0.8% difference. The point being made was that post Polaris launch, AMD lost marketshare. Considering the whole point of AMD's business plan in the discrete market for Polaris' launch was to gain marketshare by focusing on the low to mid-range, in essence their business plan was a failure. AMD got lucky due to higher than expected sales of discount R9 300 products during the lull when many were waiting for Polaris and Pascal to come out, but that wasn't sustainable nor was it particularly profitable.

NV, on the other hand, have stated that they believe the enthusiast market is on the rise. And sales of the GTX 1070+, even going back to 970, have proved as much. Consumers are willing to spend more on graphics cards than ever before and NV has the upper mid to high end on lockdown and is raking in extreme profit from that, which they can in turn spend in R&D to make even better products in the future. By the time Vega gets here, NV is gonna start rolling the Volta hype train, it's going to be basically a full year before AMD competes in the market segment that actually makes money.

 

[The Hermit]

I think nobody can deny, that some users try to steer the narrative towards a negative direction in EVERY. SINGLE. AMD thread.

Every thread ends like this, after the same old people come out of their holes.

I am an AMD fan, simply because the last thing I want is a monopoly, and I want Vulkand and Freesync to succeed.

Unfortunately the reality is negative for AMD, Durante and dr_rus just point that out.

 

[dogen]

I think nobody can deny, that some users try to steer the narrative towards a negative direction in EVERY. SINGLE. AMD thread.

Every thread ends like this, after the same old people come out of their holes.

Nothing wrong with input from people who have different perspective, especially if that perspective has a factual basis.

 

[wachie]

oh boy the thread has gone to shit with the regular suspects.

On topic, lots riding on Navi for AMD from RTG perspective. Zen should improve their pathetic performance in the CPU segment as well next year.

 

[dragonelite]

That's a 0.8% decrease in market share for AMD since Polaris launch. Granted it's smaller than I've expected from the overall numbers published earlier and the absolute shipped numbers went up considerably for everyone - which is good for AMD as well - but still I don't see how exactly this transforms into "AMD's fortunes rise".

If you open the original JPR report the headline is quite a bit different: Add-in board market increased in Q3'16, AMD lost market share, while Nvidia gained

Is this table talking about gaming gpu section only?

 

[clashfan]

any truth to rumors about 490?

 

[Bolivar687]

Is this table talking about gaming gpu section only?

It appears to be discrete desktop GPUs. Their numbers for last quarter match what Mercury Research had for that earlier in the year.

 

[Durante]

Is this table talking about gaming gpu section only?

It's discrete GPUs, but not necessarily gaming ones.
It also includes e.g. professional equipment, though especially when you look at the number of units rather than revenue that's probably very insignificant.

Edit:
Also, concerning the previous discussion about "PC hardware" vs. "Gaming PC hardware", this graphic illustrates it quite nicely:

 

[dragonelite]

It's discrete GPUs, but not necessarily gaming ones.
It also includes e.g. professional equipment, though especially when you look at the number of units rather than revenue that's probably very insignificant.

I thought maybe it also looked at the cloud providers they mostly use nvidia hardware.

 

[Durante]

I thought maybe it also looked at the cloud providers they mostly use nvidia hardware.

You mean for compute? I actually don't know.
They generally seem to talk about graphics AiBs though, so logically something like a Tesla without any display ports should not be included.

 

[QuantumSquid]

I will pretty much always buy Nvidia because I value their exclusive features but I really want AMD to be successful, it can only mean good things for the consumer.

 

[Bronetta]

AMD = FINISHED losing

 

[dragonelite]

You mean for compute? I actually don't know.
They generally seem to talk about graphics AiBs though, so logically something like a Tesla without any display ports should not be included.

Yeah given the more data analytics and machine learning API azure and amazon are providing. Something has to power those APIs and GPU seems the cheaper option
for wattage/gflops.

 

[Stevey]

It´s getting incredible annoying at this point.

Providing factual information is annoying?

 

[Philtastic]

If we want to spin this as a positive for AMD, I would say that Polaris fended off Pascal such that there wasn't a significant change in market share.

Edit: This assumes that there was a significant number of Polaris and Pascal cards sold which, because I haven't looked at the breakdown, I will note is an assumption on my part.

 

[spwolf]

It's the GPU equivalent of post-truth politics


You are in a thread titled
"AMD's fortunes rise as more graphics cards move in Q3 2016"
based on a report titled
"Add-in board market increased in Q3'16, AMD lost market share, while Nvidia gained".

Providing some clarification of the actual situation is hardly unexpected.

generally business is compared to last year quarter and not previous quarter.

So AMD is enjoying 50% rise in market share compared to same quarter last year.

Thats all there is to it. Good for them.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

With all due respect, you're out of your mind. I don't misconstrue Steam Survey numbers for sales data, as rus and unknown soldier have to push a biased narrative. I don't go into Nvidia threads, exaggerating a 0.8% difference to try to rain on everyone's parade. Matter of fact, I don't go into Nvidia threads at all other than to share my impressions of using a 1080 over the summer and trying to help others with their questions. I've never done anything on GAF approaching the frequency, consistency, or determination to shut down a brand I don't like, which those posters have become notorious for.

To borrow more language from PoliGAF, you're normalizing their behavior with false equivalencies.

My analysis with Steam Hardware Survey data has proven to be absolutely correct based on data provided by the actual companies. I'm sorry that reality doesn't align with your own perspectives or biases but that's reality's fault so stop blaming me.

 

[Delusibeta]

Also probably AMD cpu.

This is currently a dumb idea. I have absolutely no faith in AMD making this a not-dumb idea in the future, since the Vega pre-release hype reminds me of the Bulldozer pre-release hype, and we all know how much of a damp squib that turned out to be.

 

[Pestilence11]

As a Nvidia user this makes me happy. Better competition = nice things for everyone.

Good news. We have Pascal Titan X at $1200 thanks to no competition at that high end. Very important to not have a monopoly, and this is coming from someone who bought the last 3 cards nVida.

These are good posts.

 

[Wulfram]

So, how come AMD's market share increased so dramatically before Polaris came out? That seems kinda weird.

 

[zer0das]

Kind of surprised they moved more. There were shortages for the 480 for most of Q3, the 460 and 470 came out halfway through the quarter.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Good luck to AMD. I'm part of the problem: I went with a 1070 this time around.

 

[Mokujin]

I think they did a reasonable decent job, still some steps behind but I really hope they keep improving, we need healthy competition.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Good luck to AMD. I'm part of the problem: I went with a 1070 this time around.

That's a great card, no shame in that. I bought a RX480 and really like it even though it won't compare to that card but in Canada the price was too high for me. Almost double the price.

 

[TheGreyHulk]

We need more AMD. They need to rebuild that reputation and keep pumping out solid products in not only the mainstream market, but the high end as well. I wouldn't bother with enthusiast (to me, this is Titan $1000 level crap).

470/480 are very solid and are very affordable. I hope vega comes correct and offers more performance per watt and much better overclocking than polaris

Zen needs to hurry the hell up and release. Hopefully it can actually compete in the mid range section of CPUs. The main advantage they can have is higher core counts at cheaper prices since it's extremely doubtful they'll be match or beat intel's latest in greatest... just have to offer a great value/performance and people will buy it. They haven't been able to do this for a while with their trash bulldozer/steamroll architectures. What i've read sounds nice, but i want to see independent benchies once these are out in the wild.

Zen has potential to do wonders for the low end side if the cores are in fact solid at performance because we know we're getting APUs with vega in them that will have ps4 level GPU perforamance on the chip. I hope it all comes together for them and the gamble pays off.

 

[Takuan]

Good to see them keep most of their market share on basically the RX 460-480. Now let's see their 1070 & 1080 equivalents so we can bring those prices down.

 

[Akronis]

With all due respect, you're out of your mind. I don't misconstrue Steam Survey numbers for sales data, as rus and unknown soldier have to push a biased narrative. I don't go into Nvidia threads, exaggerating a 0.8% difference to try to rain on everyone's parade. Matter of fact, I don't go into Nvidia threads at all other than to share my impressions of using a 1080 over the summer and trying to help others with their questions. I've never done anything on GAF approaching the frequency, consistency, or determination to shut down a brand I don't like, which those posters have become notorious for.

To borrow more language from PoliGAF, you're normalizing their behavior with false equivalencies.

Bro, I see you in every one of these threads pushing just as many narratives as everyone else. Don't give us the holier than thou attitude.

 

[rottendevice]

Glad that AMD is having success.

 

[Chiggs]

Good showing by AMD. Hoping they can keep the momentum going in 2017 and beyond.

 

[thelastword]

With all due respect, I really wish rus, durante, and unknown soldier would stop posting in Radeon threads. AMD's market share is way up and their stock price is quadruple what it was a year ago. Making sure we're all aware that their market share fell less than a percentage point (gasp) isn't "providing more information," it just exposes what a sensitive brand warrior you are.

That said, it's only fair that I corroborate that rus is correct in stating AMD rebounded with the R9 300 series and that Polaris did not improve their existing market share. Nevertheless, it shows how far AMD has come in the last year, when they can now launch a product stack against a new Nvidia lineup and not lose any ground, especially with their forum ambassadors putting in overtime.

Again, I just want to reiterate that I'm saying this with all due respect.

Rus may be biased, but at least he tries to corroborate his standpoint with some morsels of information and links. Some other NV fans just seem to have a superiority complex which is quite pervasive in AMD threads and others, it's certainly not a healthy attitude to have as consumers, who should want better products and more competiton in the space, just like every body else...... Maybe it is these persons just don't want that.....which is strange tbh.

Personally, I'm glad AMD is doing better, they needed to. I think they'll do even better in the future when they put out their high end vega card in January (at 12TF), they also have plans to refresh their current polaris cards for higher efficiencies (higher TF counts) with lower TDP next year....and they also have a dual Vega coming mid 2017....I think things bodes well for AMD.....with so many of their APU's making it into laptop PC's and apple machines...

It's also nice that Zen is poised to at least give intel some competition with levels of performance pegged at 6850k levels according to some leaks. Obviously, we will see how all of this pans out when their products hit retail, but their polaris cards have done very well and I'm pretty sure they've learnt from the issues they had at the Polaris launch.....

For the life of me though, I don't understand why some persons would rather have an NV only future. Look at the price of their cards and all the price gouging that happens at their launch. We need AMD to come strong and hard at NV next year and keep pressuring them to give us decently priced products. People forget that AMD is targeting the CPU market, APU/mobile/closed platform market, and of course the pure GPU market. That's a lot to juggle for one company, of course since NV is only about GPU's they have a an edge in certain respects, but AMD is poised to turn even those tides and that will be very impressive if they happen to accomplish this....

AMD is doing extremely well in the mobile market, their APU's are the only ones of worth, they have captured Sony and MS for their console business, the most popular and highest selling closed platform gaming units......It's looking very likely that Scorpio will be based on Raven Ridge's APU setup and you can bet that PS5 and XB2 is a lock to foster continuity of current console libraries in future products......For the first time in a long time, an AMD CPU is looking very promising and if Vega lands in January as planned AMD will have the most powerful single GPU in the market early next year....I think such events will be great to see as it happens and no doubt shake things up in this industry. I was thinking that more persons would be excited........

 

[chrominance]

Totally random, non-GPU-war question: why the hell is S3 in this chart? I didn't even know they still existed as a company, much less that they still made desktop GPUs. Or do they?

 

[LOLCats]

Good for amd. Im happy to read this as i love thier graphics cards. Now please work on TDP. Tyvm.

 

[GSG Flash]

Good news for AMD, can't wait until they unveil their high end offering. I've been very happy with AMD cards the last few years.

I am an AMD fan, simply because the last thing I want is a monopoly, and I want Vulkand and Freesync to succeed.

Unfortunately the reality is negative for AMD, Durante and dr_rus just point that out.

Nah

dr_rus, in particular, likes to shit up any thread where AMD is painted in a positive light. It's almost as if AMD killed his dog. Like, for example, the Digital Foundry BF1 RX480 vs GTX 1060 thread where he tried his damnedest to spin the GTX480 DX12 performance numbers into something negative when it beat the GTX1060(and it was quite plain to see in the video).

 

[Transistor]

Go AMD! I bought a 1070 but I would love to see AMD be a competitor again.

 

[wumster3000]

I bought AMD stock when it was $1.80.

https://www.thestreet.com/quote/AMD.html

 

[kyser73]

Absolutely, it's something I try to mention every time the "shrinking PC market" argument is brought up.

Whether or not companies decide to upgrade their 10000 office PCs to newer models has a huge impact on the "PC market", but none at all on the PC gaming market.

Because the two aren't related, and the continued health of the enterprise market has no bearing on the gaming PC market. OK.

 

[Neizel]

If you can't see how incredibly one-sided the narrative you paint is then I honestly can't help you. Do you even realize that what you are doing in this thread is nothing more than the basest of rabble-rousing combined with a huge helping of backseat moderation?

I think the focus of importance here is that some people are bored and annoyed with the constant "passive-aggressive" responses from those guys that are clearly biased. I've met tons of people like them so I can understand their poinet.

Speaking of AMD, are there any new Vega news? There have been a few months with nothing more than their CPUs that are coming.

 

[Ac30]

I bought AMD stock when it was $1.80.

https://www.thestreet.com/quote/AMD.html

You did good. Hopefully Zen is worth something and the stock isn't just high on hopium.

 

[dr_rus]

So, how come AMD's market share increased so dramatically before Polaris came out? That seems kinda weird.

It's not weird if you think back on how the lineups were competing against each other since the launch of Radeon 300 series - which NV basically ignored and this resulted in them loosing these 10% of market share. Almost every 300 series proposition was faster / better than 900 series at the same/close price point with the exception of the top end 980Ti.

Totally random, non-GPU-war question: why the hell is S3 in this chart? I didn't even know they still existed as a company, much less that they still made desktop GPUs. Or do they?

That's something of a running joke at JPR at this point I think. No idea why they keep S3 there as S3 hasn't produced a new discreet GPU in more than five years now I believe.

 

[wachie]

generally business is compared to last year quarter and not previous quarter.

So AMD is enjoying 50% rise in market share compared to same quarter last year.

Thats all there is to it. Good for them.

This post is the equivalent of Politifact shutting down Drumpf claims.