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Analysis: Poor turnout not responsible for Trump's victory.
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Puck Beaverton
Banned
charisma is more important than policy and always has been
I still don't understand why people think Obama won because of anything other than god-tier charisma and a kick ass slogan.
I still don't understand why people think Obama won because of anything other than god-tier charisma and a kick ass slogan.
Shamrock7r
Member
I would agree with that.
I think sometimes it is overlooked just how little a large chunk of voters don't necessarily pay attention to the details of the two parties. You have a large chunk of voters who weigh their vote more on charisma, pomp, and a fresh change of pace vs having hard stances on more or less taxes, military budgets and military interventions, hell even healthcare.
So when a guy like Trump comes along, I truly believe a lot of voters changed their vote based on the novelty of it all, and the idea that Trump would do some positive things without paying attention to the actual details of what he says. I don't consider these voters racist or hateful, just incredibly uneducated when it comes to understanding the different policies and ideas between the two parties, and what it means to them directly.
How else can you interpret that? 1/4 voters changed their vote from Obama.
Vicetrailia
Member
Why do GOP voters want infrastructure now when they could have had it years ago under Obama?
You're right, how can a group of people who voted for Obama in 4 years vote for someone a flaming racist who went out of his way to shit of ethnic groups and tell African Americans their lives are garbage so give him a chance. I've wondered this since the night of November 8th.
jack_package_200
Banned
I suppose Hillary was too realistic and honest on her policies and spent too much time trying to engage voters like they were rational and intelligent.
Check her website!
AbsolutBro
Member
No, you just actually read the article .
Autoignition
Member
Kind of shocked at the amount of people in this thread not realizing that different forms of racism exist. Trump's campaign wasn't profoundly anti-black. The "inner cities" thing was pretty racist, but it's also how a lot of well-meaning white people think of the black population in this country. It isn't malicious -- just ignorant.
What Trump did was hammer on the overt racism of today. Latinos and Muslims. You can be A-OK with a black president while still wanting to ban Muslims and kick out every Latino immigrant. The two things are not mutually exclusive.
What Trump did was hammer on the overt racism of today. Latinos and Muslims. You can be A-OK with a black president while still wanting to ban Muslims and kick out every Latino immigrant. The two things are not mutually exclusive.
Shamrock7r
Member
I think you can be both. Biden, for example, in my opinion wouldn't have been any less honest and articulate about his policies, but he can probably connect with potential moderate/independent voters in a way that Hillary can only dream.
Netherscourge
Banned
I think the scary thing is that white people who used to vote Democrat gave up on liberalism and went Conservative last year. They didn't just vote for Trump. They handed him the House and Senate too.
manfestival
Member
So it's lumping third party voters with Trump support? Why would they do this?
VendettaRed07
Member
She did not campaign or set up infrastructure in the rust belt
Did not set one foot in Wisconsin.
Ultimately it's on people who voted but Hillary didn't work hard enough to convince people
jack_package_200
Banned
This is a really good point. The one consistent thing Trump did in the campaign was scapegoat immigrants as rapist job thieves and stroke fear of islamic terror.
Is that really hard to accept at this point? Voting for Obama doesn't say that much about someone's ability to be swept up by racist and xenophobic rhetoric When a campaign goes out of its way to shit on various ethnic and religious groups and frames just about every argument and economic proposal in a "they're stealing your jobs" way, what's the take away here?
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Um... because there is a not insignificant number of pretty racist white people in this country?
Of course it's not even close to all or even most white people, but there are a lot.
I know in my personal life, I've only ever been a victim of overt racism from whites, and I would imagine pretty much all minorities living in the US would say this as well.
CrocMother
Banned
She was also a woman in an overtly sexist culture and society. America just wasn't ready, and frankly didn't deserve Hilary Clinton.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
What are you talking about? She got more votes.
Because our 2 party system is
they know that pendulum is going to swing off the line and fling itself straight into the fan.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
This is basically the same article he did in December lol, except with less detail.
It's worth noting that while it can't all be attributed to turnout, looking at flipped counties show that it wasn't the only factor. Lafayette County, WI (which Obama carried and Hillary did not) for example when I take a quick look, had 7928 votes cast in 2012 with only 81 for third party candidates and 7503 in 2016 for all candidates. That doesn't change the fact that Trump got just under 700 more votes than Romney did in that county in 2012 but Hillary got 1300 less votes than Obama did. Gogebic County, MI had 7576 ballots in 2012 and 7156 in 2016, which is about a 5% drop. In Mahoning County, OH Trump got about 12k more votes than Romney but Hillary got about 21k less than Obama (though she still narrowly won the county)
Not to try and defect all the blame (lots of midwestern Obama voters flipped!) but worth keeping in mind. The effect is more pronounced in Wisconsin than anything, so voter ID is a part of it.
It's worth noting that while it can't all be attributed to turnout, looking at flipped counties show that it wasn't the only factor. Lafayette County, WI (which Obama carried and Hillary did not) for example when I take a quick look, had 7928 votes cast in 2012 with only 81 for third party candidates and 7503 in 2016 for all candidates. That doesn't change the fact that Trump got just under 700 more votes than Romney did in that county in 2012 but Hillary got 1300 less votes than Obama did. Gogebic County, MI had 7576 ballots in 2012 and 7156 in 2016, which is about a 5% drop. In Mahoning County, OH Trump got about 12k more votes than Romney but Hillary got about 21k less than Obama (though she still narrowly won the county)
Not to try and defect all the blame (lots of midwestern Obama voters flipped!) but worth keeping in mind. The effect is more pronounced in Wisconsin than anything, so voter ID is a part of it.
Kite
Member
I've said it before, I'm hardly Mr SJW but my experience in the military is that many people (men of all races) are way more ok with a black man in charge then a woman, any women. Yes, even the vaunted White woman, objects of protection but being in control.. hell no.
I was in a MOS (finance) that has a fairly sizable number of female soldiers and women NCOs and officers.. there were often certain individuals who had issues with their authority unless they were super charismatic and authoritative.
SolarPowered
Member
The one single thing in this entire universe they share in common is that they were both the "change" and "outsider" candidates for their respective campaign years. It's not a coincidence that 22 US states voted for a suspiciously atheist socialist Jew. If there is one thing US voters love it's a man or a woman willing to shake up the status quo after eight years (for better or worse).
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
It is hard to accept. Just because he spat out racist rhetoric doesnt mean 1/4th of these voters were drawn by it. I'd place more stock in the driving force coming from sexism and a disbelief in a woman being able to lead than just pinning it on racism.
The article isn't saying that all of those former Democrats voted for Trump though. Quite a number of them voted third party, and the primary reason was due to who they felt should have gotten the nomination.
The Albatross
Member
Put another way, 2008 and 2012 Obama voters threw the election for Trump.
Most models did not predict that.
VendettaRed07
Member
In sure Obama could have used that as an excuse as well had he not won. But he didn't have to because he put the work in and reached out to people.
Obama criticized her strategy openly for a reason. It was terrible. She worked her whole life to get the chance to become president but found it to be more important to spend time shmoozing with donors in LA and New York than talking to factory workers in Michigan. And just because the demographics of one area doesn't favor you doesn't mean you shouldn't go there.
Trump took advantage of her complete absence. You can say she was too good for us or whatever but ultimately she let us down and didn't get out there at the grass roots level. And she ignored anyone along the way (Bill, Obama, etc) who told her that her strategy wasn't working.
jack_package_200
Banned
Theres also the fact that people were lying to pollsters about who they supported. Its almost as if supporting Donald Trump is something one should be ashamed of.
Hillary : Policy that will take time and hard work
Donald: Magic Beans and Fairy Dust
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Which was still a drain to a base Hillary and co. probably thought would be with her in 2016. These former white democrat voters who voted third party hurt Hillary more than Trump.
Abuela has never won a competitive election in her life.
Economy anxiety, "tells it like it is," white nationalism, racism, xenophobia, "he's not a politican," embarrassed millionaire mentality, he will run government "like a business." Literally take your pick.
The Albatross
Member
Don't discount the repeated fear mongering of China, Mexico, and India from the Trump campaign when it comes to trade. The only uncomfortable thing is that the same rhetoric came from Bernie Sanders on this issue.
Clinton was the only reasonably candidate when it came to free trade, though even she moved towards this populist madness towards election day.
GoodCoffeeJoey
Banned
It was Comey.
Maybe they voted for a white man after voting for a black man not because they were secret racists that only got woke when Donald Trump came along, but because the Dem candidate had no personal charisma and did not speak convincingly about any of the issues affecting these towns. Telling people living in towns with opioid addiction issues and toxic fucking tapwater, and who are getting shafted by health insurance costs resulting from a flawed healthcare bill that their party is championing, that "America is already great" is such a winning formula.
ZackieChan
Member
Some people seem to be so dead set on the racism angle that they seem to be blind to facts and logic.
Perhaps other issues are more important to them? Or even a single issue (economy, jobs), and everything just doesn't matter?
You see this in all those regret tweets. All they cared about was the job stuff, but Trump is going in hard on the racism and xenophobia, which they didn't think was his number one priority.
How About No
Member
Sour cream wrapped in a flour tortilla sprinkled with salt
We are literally the fucking worst
Because their lives became worse and they wanted fixes so they listened to a man who promised them everything:
Honestly there's some racist elements but overall Hilary didn't appeal to these rural desperate white Americans and really didn't focus on these people (i.e. wasn't all her time in states like Pennsylvania spent in the cities)
Here's it in perspective:
Honestly that's the answer there...These people aren't just unhappy they're desperate. And desperate people are easy to con.
When your toolbox only consists of a hammer, then everything looks like a nail.
GiantEnemyGoomba
Member
Seems to me like it was mainly Trump's jobs rhetoric (plus Hillary lacking rhetoric that spoke to the rust belt), racism, and hatred of Hillary. Of course, the number votes that could've flipped the results was pretty small so there could've been more factors that had a decently large influence.
n0razi
Member
It blows your mind that people are idiots?
Count Dookkake
Member
Should've gone with Bernie.
Well, she didn't energized me! She didn't promised me free stuff! Also lots of emails.
Garrett 2U
Member
'Art of the Deal' billionaire Donald Trump promised to bring back the jobs that the white working class were losing to other countries.
Politicial, media, and industry leaders failed to inform this country exactly why that promise was empty.
We need to start discussions now on what Captialism looks like post-automation. The jobs that are lost will vastly outnumber the jobs that are created, and those that exist will be specialized.
Unfortunately we don't have the representation in government that is going to effectively tackle those problems so everyone is going to be worse off after this term than before.
Politicial, media, and industry leaders failed to inform this country exactly why that promise was empty.
We need to start discussions now on what Captialism looks like post-automation. The jobs that are lost will vastly outnumber the jobs that are created, and those that exist will be specialized.
Unfortunately we don't have the representation in government that is going to effectively tackle those problems so everyone is going to be worse off after this term than before.
ZackieChan
Member
Surely the rhetoric that people who weren't interested in Hilary are "idiots" did our side no favors, don't you think?
Well, I'm not saying it's only racism, but it'll be hard to convince me that it wasn't the biggest. I don't know what your experiences are but racism comes in many forms. Trump hammered on anti-immigrant(which translated predominantly to anti-Latino and anti-muslim). It was the corner stone of pretty much everything he was about that wasn't anti-Hillary and anti-Obama. Trump has never spoken about the substance of anything he says. So really what was it that drew them in if not a mixture of what I can only describe as Bigotry?
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