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[Dwight Schrute]

Somehow... I think you're right. Mindblown.

 

[Rahul]

And a big part of him passing the SeeD exam was that Seifer failed it and now Squall outranked him. And you keep going on about Squall being a newly recruited cadet, but he isn't. You argue that everything after disc 1 is wish fulfillment because he goes from a lowly 'cadet' to the commander, but that misrepresents what actually happens to fit. At the beginning of the game (before he 'dies') he becomes a member of SeeD and as far as the game presents it SeeD is the ultimate rank attainable within the Garden, they are the elite squad. You may question why Square didn't choose to flesh out a more complex heirarchy, but they didn't, they clearly and explicitly make SeeD the top rank.

Yeah, I agree, I probably worded that badly. What I mean to say is that, to me, the game is making it fairly obvious that Squall is inexperienced and that part of the scenario centers on inexperienced teenagers being thrown into situations above and beyond their control and are expected to deal with it. Given that much of Squall's internal dialogue, as well as the rivalry with Seifer appear to be pretty immature (not surprising of a 17 year old), I feel that that underlines the undertone here.

That he becomes the one everyone looks to seems to be partly a mix of circumstance (him leading the mission that sets in motion the sequence of events that results in Edea attacking Balamb Garden) and results (okay it's really the game giving the player challenges to overcome, but Squall gets things done).

People don't really act that way, though. They act like someone assigned him squad captain and they're just going along with it. They're all kids, none of them really know what's going on, to them the entire context of the first mission isn't defeating the sorceress or finding out what's going on, but passing the final exam. That's how it came across to me, anyway.

Then in the discussing the ending...

You put a lot of significance into the fact that we see scenes from Disc 1, notably the ballroom scene as though this is proof of Squall's real memories, however you note that we also see things that only occur after that (Ragnarok, Riona in Space, Adel) without offering any explanation as to why they are mixed in with the 'real' memories without the game making any distinction between them. It's a circular argument to say that because you have decided that there is a distinct cut off point that anything before that alluded to in the ending is significant and anything after that isn't.

The explanation is that it's in his head, and at that point (seconds from death) his brain is just firing anything and everything to do with Rinoa, especially the very significant first meeting (which is where he was blown away by her to the point that he developed a crush). Again, just my interpretation.

Okay, so you say that everything after disc 1 is the dying hallucination of Squall? Right up until another point which you have decided, where Squall is now dead, and everything after that is 'heaven'? Why the distinction? Squall is present in both the 'deathbed hallucination' and 'heaven', as are Rinoa, Zell, Seifer, etc. Functionally they are identical, fabrication of a life Squall would have lead had he not 'died'.

Why the distinction? Because looking at the editing and visual imagery used in the ending movies, it feels obvious to me. Things are bleak and empty when Squall is "lost in time", and after a moment where he snaps his head back, we see his eyes and hollow face, a feather falls to the ground and from that point on everything is just dandy. To me that is all very symbolic and intentional and I took that away from it.

Edit: Just before I go to bed, one last thing.

So pretty much the first thing you do in the game is fight a fire demon thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5gJHPUG0js

It noteworthy here that Ifrit appears to be a sentient, intelligent creature capable of speech, which I would argue makes him more than a 'monster'. Also excluding all the numerous fantasy creatures you encounter from the beginning of the game seems to be once again cherry picking only that which supports your theory in the face of vast amounts of evidence in the game that upfrontedly (if that isn't a word it should be) contradicts it.

Yeah, Squall lives in a fantasy world, as this is a fantasy game. I have no problem with going from one fantasy world, the one he lives in, to his dreamlike fantasy world. The point is that in the real world, things happen that he doesn't understand, and in his dream world, things that happen are immediately resolved, never brought up again, and somehow end up revolving around him. I find that a little odd, considering that before disc 2, everything that happens has nothing to do with him, is mostly unresolved, and he keeps mulling over "why" and "for what purpose" he is experiencing any of it in the first place.

To me, Squall is a teenage kid trying to understand life, like any teenager. And just like we have moments between falling sleep and dreaming where we imagine great things, we see the same with him. Except instead of falling asleep, he's falling dead.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Just throwing this out there: It cant possibly be a dream since you cant read in dreams.

Awesome episode, but unfortunately even as thorough as the writers on TAS usually were, they got taken in by a myth on that one. It is entirely possible to read in dreams.

 

[jaxword]

Squall being dead is a cool theory. Pity the Ultimania completely proves it wrong as the FF8 world goes on, still.

Same with Rinoa = Ultimecia. It's a cool theory, but nothing to support it (though nothing to DENY it, technically, in the materials, I don't think lack of denial = proof).

A much better idea to explore is where the missing half of Hyne is in the FF8 world. I personally suspect Ellone.

 

[hateradio]

I think someone told me about this a long time ago, since it's a really hefty blow. However, we only have the story at face value, what you do with it is up to you.

Reading Ultimecia's dialog makes me realize that I hardly remember much of that game, I never realized she was simply cursing everyone because of how she was screwed over.

I think the story has been done though, where things have gone on for so long that you don't even begin to question why certain practices still go on in the world. So for her to be a tragic figure of a future where they don't even know why there is SeeD and why the sorceresses are to be defeated is quite interesting. Even wondering how certain facts like those could be lost in history is quite interesting. I wish they would have elaborated on that part.

I think I like that in itself :]

 

[Sword Familiar]

Awesome episode, but unfortunately even as thorough as the writers on TAS usually were, they got taken in by a myth on that one. It is entirely possible to read in dreams.

I've been able to read in dreams many times, but the text always seems to change every time I look away from it. Hell, I've even had times when it changed on me while reading it. /slightly_off_topic

 

[harriet the spy]

Oh but I've given reasons as to why it's stupid. But I guess you've chosen to ignore them?

No, you haven't Not at a single point do you say why it would be stupid for Rinoa to go insane from loneliness. You both keep hammering it like a self-evident truth - while killing for love is both common in the real-world, and a clichéed scenario overused in about every single medium over. It's saccharine as fuck, but that's well in line with FF/RPGs plots in general. Fuck, it is _precisely_ the plot of Xenogears (played it? remember Krellian?)

This being all said, I think I prefer that Squall=dead theory, though evidenced by cherry-picking from hell. It is kind of fun.

You also repeat the same points over.

I do because I am consistent. Pause for a second and realize I am not trying to say you are wrong. I have no responsibility in showing you that your version of the plot is correct, since I agree on this point. Ergo, I don't give a flying shit about the life-span of sorceresses. It never was a major plot point. I can't help if you refuse to read this sentence. It's very subjective of course. Why do I not care about life-span of sorceresses, but somehow I think Griever is important? I don't know, I guess I never named a piece of fucking jewelry in a RPG before, I guess I was traumatized by this.

I am just saying I think R=U is self-contained. Assuming Rinoa went mad makes that theory not self-contradictory, and you have not been able to disprove this by saying anything besides it's "stupid". Your getting so angry about this stupid shit certainly doesn't give you any points for being a fair judge on how well-balanced people should behave.

The 'points' that I am supposed to offer a rebuttal to are purely subjective, like somehow it makes more sense to murder the whole world if you were wrongly accused of some shit, even though it turns out that you were actually not wrongly accused from some shit since you were precisely accused of wanting to murder the whole world. It's actually kind of nicely self-referential, I would see a good K. Dick novel about this (minority report ish)


Fuck. I can't believe we're turning GAF in gamefaqs. Ok, I'll shut up, go ahead and say it's stupid, I am done . At least I was less bored while i was working.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I've been able to read in dreams many times, but the text always seems to change every time I look away from it. Hell, I've even had times when it changed on me while reading it. /slightly_off_topic

Yep, that's exactly what happens. Persistent elements are rare in dreams.

 

[Rahul]

Yep, that's exactly what happens. Persistent elements are rare in dreams.

I'm a little disappointed there hasn't been any discussion of the dreamlike visual imagery used in the ending FMV (with all the flashing images). We noted in the analysis that the fact that Squall can't see Rinoa's face clearly is dreamlike, and there are several other motifs like the recurring of a certain movement (Rinoa walking towards him over and over again, despite him trying to look away). I don't feel like they would have put specific visuals related to dreams in there if they hadn't intended to suggest something like that.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I'm a little disappointed there hasn't been any discussion of the dreamlike visual imagery used in the ending FMV (with all the flashing images). We noted in the analysis that the fact that Squall can't see Rinoa's face clearly is dreamlike, and there are several other motifs like the recurring of a certain movement (Rinoa walking towards him over and over again, despite him trying to look away). I don't feel like they would have put specific visuals related to dreams in there if they hadn't intended to suggest something like that.

I have a minor interest in dreams and sleep cycles, which I studied a bit in university, but I don't find much merit in taking apart "Hollywood" renditions of dreaming, which FF8's ending kind of apes.

 

[remz]

I think the later parts of the game do have a certain dreamlike flow to how it progresses.


Cool theory. Reminds me of Ferris Bueller fight club theory though.

 

[Replicant]

Now bare with me; it is never explained why Ultimecia is trying to go back in time. One theory was that she was trying to see Squall again. Rinoa is immortal, Squall isn't: he died of old age, she becomes lonely and saddened by his death, over many years her grief eventually drives her insane. The reason she attacks herself and Squall is because so much time has passed she doesn't remember what he looks like, or is so crazy she doesn't truly comprehend what is happening. Ultimecia wasn't trying to destroy the world, she was mentally fractured and disparately trying to return to better times.

Yup, I really like this possibility whether it was the intention of the writers or not.

How people find R=U is interesting is beyond me.

So, apparently it's tragic if Rinoa outlives Squall, then goes batshit insane, wants to kill SeeD for NO apparent reason (Yes, no reason whatsoever) remember, she goes to the past not the present. It's a silly idea.

You can say " No she wants the world to suffer with her" but why? That's not the kind of character Rinoa is, and it only makes her character seem even shittier if this happens.

I don't see what's outrageous. You'll be surprised to know the kind of things that people do for love. There is indeed, a thin line between love and hate. What was that famous saying? "Sometimes when you can't have the person that you want....even the world is not enough." It's so easy to tipple from love into hate it doesn't matter if the person is nice or not. The tragedy is twofold because Rinoa was such a nice girl but bitterness took a hold of her anyway. And to live so long without the company of those you love...yikes, I'm not that much of a romantic but I can imagine that it must be a miserable existence. So much so that it's enough to drive someone crazy.

 

[major_killjoy]

FF8's story line is open ended enough for embellishment. (whether it be writers' intention or not) Unless the original developers can get together for a Q&A retrospective, the ideas mentioned here are plausible.

Personally, I like the R=U idea. It adds more character depth to someone who spent most of the game acting as romantic fodder & a self-improvement catalyst for Squall. 'Resigning herself to crueler circumstances by falling in love' beats the 'love conquers all' motif. The former is a more accurate depiction of love as an emotional/time investment than a cure-all.

Preferences aside, the assertion that Squall has been dead past Disc1 seems more plausible. Many of the coincidences seem too convenient and wedged into the story (even by RPG standards) for our protagonist's betterment. If we take this as canon, then Squall never redeems himself as a character and continues to delude himself into thinking that he has made any progress in reality. This is his personal 'final' fantasy.

 

[chicken_ramen]

But the end sequence is intentionally dream-like. If anything that's at least evidence of what a 'dream sequence' would look like inside this story. The dream imagery all point to his fear of forgetting and being forgotten. He is warned before that something like this would happen after beating Ultimecia and that their only chance of making it back through the time compression would be love and friendship and all that jazz. It's dumb, but that's the internal logic. He falls prey to the fears and so on that have hounded him throughout the game and gets trapped, forgetting who he is, forgetting his friends. Right at this point he is dying and the game is heavy handed in saying so. His fears have separated him from his friends and he is being lost, forgotten in time. Or whatever happens when you lose to the time compression. Then love reaches out and saves him. Because love is stronger than time travel stuff or something. I dunno. It's dumb but it is consistent with exactly what the game says will happen, and requires no explanation from outside the text to work.

 

[Lagunamov]

Sorry, but FF8 isn't the end of evangelion, the story is just the game, nothing more.

 

[Replicant]

Squall never redeems himself as a character and continues to delude himself into thinking that he has made any progress in reality. This is his personal 'final' fantasy.

♫ I saw you smiling at me. Was it real or just my fantasy? ♫

 

[Rahul]

But the end sequence is intentionally dream-like. If anything that's at least evidence of what a 'dream sequence' would look like inside this story. The dream imagery all point to his fear of forgetting and being forgotten. He is warned before that something like this would happen after beating Ultimecia and that their only chance of making it back through the time compression would be love and friendship and all that jazz. It's dumb, but that's the internal logic. He falls prey to the fears and so on that have hounded him throughout the game and gets trapped, forgetting who he is, forgetting his friends. Right at this point he is dying and the game is heavy handed in saying so. His fears have separated him from his friends and he is being lost, forgotten in time. Or whatever happens when you lose to the time compression. Then love reaches out and saves him. Because love is stronger than time travel stuff or something. I dunno. It's dumb but it is consistent with exactly what the game says will happen, and requires no explanation from outside the text to work.

Interesting take. I'm willing to consider that a plausible explanation for the ending sequence, but it doesn't explain any of the other events in the game, or what happens after the ending sequence is complete (everyone is happy, Seifer's inexplicable return from being defeated, etc). How do you feel about those?

 

[HK-47]

But the end sequence is intentionally dream-like. If anything that's at least evidence of what a 'dream sequence' would look like inside this story. The dream imagery all point to his fear of forgetting and being forgotten. He is warned before that something like this would happen after beating Ultimecia and that their only chance of making it back through the time compression would be love and friendship and all that jazz. It's dumb, but that's the internal logic. He falls prey to the fears and so on that have hounded him throughout the game and gets trapped, forgetting who he is, forgetting his friends. Right at this point he is dying and the game is heavy handed in saying so. His fears have separated him from his friends and he is being lost, forgotten in time. Or whatever happens when you lose to the time compression. Then love reaches out and saves him. Because love is stronger than time travel stuff or something. I dunno. It's dumb but it is consistent with exactly what the game says will happen, and requires no explanation from outside the text to work.

Dont ruin their fun. They believe they found something deep and meaningful (lol not that it is as pointed out multiple times) in a story that cant even tell a decent surface narrative from a writer that never pulled off anything of any particular depth before, and godammit they will ignore all logic and evidence to the contrary to keep it alive. The loose ends and plot holes are far more likely to just be the product of bad writing then of some crazy postmodern death fantasy.

There is death of the author, and then there is smashing the author's corpse repeatedly with a mallet.

 

[Rahul]

Dont ruin their fun. They believe they found something deep and meaningful (lol not that it is as pointed out multiple times) in a story that cant even tell a decent surface narrative from a writer that never pulled off anything of any particular depth before, and godammit they will ignore all logic and evidence to the contrary to keep it alive. The loose ends and plot holes are far more likely to just be the product of bad writing then of some crazy postmodern death fantasy.

There is death of the author, and then there is smashing the author's corpse repeatedly with a mallet.

Look, I appreciate that you disagree, really, but it's just not true that I'm ignoring "all logic and evidence to the contrary". Again: bring it. Don't want to bring it and just want to go around laughing at people? Then kindly go post elsewhere because you're not adding anything to the discussion.

Also, whether or not this was intended is irrelevant to the theory. Sure, it'd be more awesome if Nojima intended for it to be read this way, but even if he didn't, it can still be read this way, which, as many have pointed out, actually makes the vagueness of the story something you can run with instead of just hating on forever.

 

[ShinobiFist]

Hey, if some of you don't feel like playing FFVIII all over again. Go here.

http://spoonyexperiment.com/category/final-fantasy-viii/

 

[major_killjoy]

♫ I saw you smiling at me. Was it real or just my fantasy? ♫

You brought the cheese, but where are the crackers?

 

[Rahul]

Hey, if some of you don't feel like playing FFVIII all over again. Go here.

http://spoonyexperiment.com/category/final-fantasy-viii/

That's great. Someone on another forum just linked me to this, too: http://socksmakepeoplesexy.net/index.php?a=ff08

 

[Amir0x]

It's neat the ideas people come up with to try to explain FFVIII's horrendous story. I gotta give you credit for really trying to make sense of that mess, but the only real explanation is that the writers at Squeenix are simply just that bad.

 

[ITA84]

I personally don't like the Squall is Dead theory, because it completely empties the game: if the setting were a realistic, historical one, or even a well-established fantasy world (a la Lord of the Rings), then the story narrated in Disc 1 would mean something, it would have its place in a larger story. As it is, instead, it's just being thrown there for no reason but to build another fantasy story; there isn't even any morality play or anything in it, it's just meaningless.

You could argue that while the setting is fantastic, it still resembles reality in some aspects, so that the character of Squall can still be related to modern youth and their problems, but at that point I'd rather believe the dream to be part of that as well, it's more plausible. After all, you're trying to separate an inexplicable story (Disc 1) from another one (the rest, since it's a dream): I don't really see the need to.

The only aspect that I like about this theory is that it does away with any time-travelling stuff: as much as time-travel is commonplace in stories, I still tend to turn my brain off every time it's used. The Rinoa is Ultimecia theory is certainly interesting, but time loops require too many weird assumptions for me; the same goes for any generic, face value interpretation of the game, with or without love and friendship.

 

[Rahul]

I personally don't like the Squall is Dead theory, because it completely empties the game: if the setting were a realistic, historical one, or even a well-established fantasy world (a la Lord of the Rings), then the story narrated in Disc 1 would mean something, it would have its place in a larger story. As it is, instead, it's just being thrown there for no reason but to build another fantasy story; there isn't even any morality play or anything in it, it's just meaningless.

You could argue that while the setting is fantastic, it still resembles reality in some aspects, so that the character of Squall can still be related to modern youth and their problems, but at that point I'd rather believe the dream to be part of that as well, it's more plausible. After all, you're trying to separate an inexplicable story (Disc 1) from another one (the rest, since it's a dream): I don't really see the need to.

The only aspect that I like about this theory is that it does away with any time-travelling stuff: as much as time-travel is commonplace in stories, I still tend to turn my brain off every time it's used. The Rinoa is Ultimecia theory is certainly interesting, but time loops require too many weird assumptions for me; the same goes for any generic, face value interpretation of the game, with or without love and friendship.

Well, you're partially right: it does drain certain aspects of meaning from the story. But at least it throws out the parts that weren't that valuable in the first place. I mean, the significance of Adel supposedly appearing at the TV station isn't that interesting to me. What's interesting is the observation that life is just something you're supposed to deal with, and Squall is having a hard time accepting that. The "inexplicable story" of disc 1 feels crafted to express that perspective.

But that's cool that you have your own view of things. Thanks for posting!

 

[Stumpokapow]

so, uh, what does the ultimania guide say about the game's story?

 

[Brera]

Guys,

I read this very thread on gamefaqs 11 years ago! No joke!

FF8 is the best FF by a country mile!

 

[Mael]

It's neat the ideas people come up with to try to explain FFVIII's horrendous story. I gotta give you credit for really trying to make sense of that mess, but the only real explanation is that the writers at Squeenix are simply just that bad.

Hey, not every game they make is that badly told and heck they managed to make some stories that are are on a order of magnitude less crappy.
If anything this one is a fluke.
(and even then it's Nojima not anyone)

 

[Lionheart1827]

That picture of squall without a face really creeps me the fuck out. The funny thing is I've watched the ending billions of times since the game came out (the cutscenes in that game are still some of my favorite in any game) and I NEVER noticed it being there. Weird as hell.

 

[jaxword]

so, uh, what does the ultimania guide say about the game's story?

What would you like to know?

It doesn't say anything about Squall dying, in fact completely counters it.

It doesn't say anything about R=U, either.

The only thing the Ultimania expands upon is background details of the FF8 world...

 

[Chuckie]

That picture of squall without a face really creeps me the fuck out. The funny thing is I've watched the ending billions of times since the game came out (the cutscenes in that game are still some of my favorite in any game) and I NEVER noticed it being there. Weird as hell.

He actually reminds me of Ultimecia's final form, in which she also didn't have a face.

 

[Mael]

He actually reminds me of Ultimecia's final form, in which she also didn't have a face.

That's because you're not looking at the right head, the head underneath has a face....
Kinda like Anima in FFX

 

[Chuckie]

That's because you're not looking at the right head, the head underneath has a face....
Kinda like Anima in FFX

Yeah I know, but still haha.

Anima was cool btw.... scary ass thing.

 

[Mael]

Yeah I know, but still haha.

Anima was cool btw.... scary ass thing.

I swear it's the most creepy looking thing in that game....
the game would probably have benefitted with the last boss being closer to that than what we got....
still nice catch on the nofaceUltimecia, the shot in the OP is probably no coincidence.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I wouldn't know. I haven't read the FAQ. That's just what I derived from playing the game a few times.

You keep saying this isn't supported by anything in the game, but here's what I used to construct Ultimecia's timeline:

In her speech before the assassination attempt:



She's clearly angry about being condemned unjustly here. The speech makes almost no sense if you try to constrain it solely to the context at the time.

Then when Irvine's shot does nothing, and Squall goes to attack her.

She hates SeeD. She knows they're fated to kill her, but she doesn't know why SeeD is dedicated to that task, or how they can pull it off.

Which is why she has Seifer interrogate Squall.


This is all Ultimecia acting on incomplete future knowledge. This is why she orders Seifer to hunt down every SeeD and kill them.


Then at the orphanage:


The Garden fight presents further evidence that Ultimecia is working from an incomplete historical record, but she knows someone from SeeD will kill her:




She really hates SeeD. On top of that, they've just walked through the future and have seen every future SeeD dead. Those were the SeeDs charged with guarding Ultimecia.

Anyway, keep on covering your ears and humming really oud if that floats your boat. I don't really see the support for your claim that the game says nothing about any of this as the quotes I've just provided illustrate. I'm not basing this off a FAQ, not the Ultimania guide. This is all from the game's script. Stuff you find without having to dig at all.

The only thing you have to do to arrive at this is look at the provided quotes than approach Ultimecia's quotes from the perspective of the sorceress.

I've said this one too many times in this thread already, but the OP keeps ignoring it. If the biggest factor that comes into play with this theory is about Squall getting stabbed with the ice, and all of a sudden his wound his healed, it's because Ultimecia wanted Squall alive and let Seifer torture him. Seifer enjoyed it. He was possessed, and as you put it, Ultimecia sees the future from an incomplete perspective and needs to get more info from Squall.

That alone debunks the entire theory. :lol

 

[Rahul]

I've said this one too many times in this thread already, but the OP keeps ignoring it. If the biggest factor that comes into play with this theory is about Squall getting stabbed with the ice, and all of a sudden his wound his healed, it's because Ultimecia wanted Squall alive and let Seifer torture him. Seifer enjoyed it. He was possessed, and as you put it, Ultimecia sees the future from an incomplete perspective and needs to get more info from Squall.

That alone debunks the entire theory. :lol

I'm not ignoring it, I just don't agree with it. It doesn't "debunk the entire theory". I don't think it makes any sense for him to be miraculously, inexplicably healed, for Seifer to be torturing him, and for any of the characters' actions to be what they were, unless it's all happening in Squall's head.

You can disagree, but don't throw it back at me and then laugh in my face. You don't see me laughing at all the R=U converts, do you?

 

[The Elite]

I want to believe this, I really do. If it were true I wouldn't mind seeing an interpretation of the actual events that happened after Squall was stabbed and fell off the balcony. It would be interesting to see how things really played out.

At least it would be better than yet another FFVII game.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

As Freshmaker already said, it's all in the game's script, but since you refuse to believe that, then yeah, whatever floats your boat, captain nemo.

 

[Rahul]

I want to believe this, I really do. If it were true I wouldn't mind seeing an interpretation of the actual events that happened after Squall was stabbed and fell of the balcony. It would be interesting to see how things really played out.

At least it would be better than yet another FFVII game.

Yeah that's an interesting concept. If we believe the idea that nothing that happens after disc 1 was real, then what was Edea's purpose? Certainly the entire situation seemed more political in nature than the ridiculous Time Kompression plot the game actually reveals.

 

[Stumpokapow]

What would you like to know?

It doesn't say anything about Squall dying, in fact completely counters it.

It doesn't say anything about R=U, either.

The only thing the Ultimania expands upon is background details of the FF8 world...

then it's pretty much guaranteed all the discussion in this thread is nutso, since the ultimania serves as the canon guide to the game

 

[Rahul]

As Freshmaker already said, it's all in the game's script, but since you refuse to believe that, then yeah, whatever floats your boat, captain nemo.

Again, not true. It's not "all in the game's script" - the game's script is extremely vague and open to interpretation. That you choose to believe a certain interpretation does not make your interpretation the truth, in the same way that mine doesn't.

Good luck having productive conversations with other people with this attitude, though!

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

The guy that wrote Breakdown, Masahide Kito, can clearly write quite a good mindfuck as well.

 

[Rahul]

That's a damn good point.

I would be interested in reading any such analysis for further Final Fantasy games if people had interesting evidence and weren't just using it as a counterpoint to this analysis.

But the cheap way out is to say that our article is "lazy", so I'm probably not going to take them seriously with that kind of approach.

 

[Rahul]

Ha, I just found this:

Wouldn't that be great.

 

[Chuckie]

What the fuck is that from, Rahul?

Is that Rinoa in leather?

 

[Scythesurge]

Was about to ask who that is but I see I've been beaten.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

This theory is nice and interesting to read, but it's obviously not true. Square hasn't told a good story in a very very long time. This theory might absolve ff8 if it were true, but then what's square's excuse for ff7, ff9, ff10, ff12, and (from what I've heard here at gaf) ff13?

Square has been trying to be overly epic for too long and the reason why is obvious - it's what final fantasy is and it's what final fantasy fans want. The result is always shit, cliche, super anime influenced and nonsensical... but it's what people with awful taste in story-telling want. Nobody is punishing them for their products. It's still selling millions. The next iteration still gets plenty of hype. It's still a sure thing.

FF8 is not a blemish in the history of square, it's just the biggest stain in a room that hasn't been cleaned in 10 years. There is no need for theorizing anything. FF8's plot is just like FF7's but just a tad more ridiculous. The same goes for ff9.

Do you have any idea how long it's been since I fought a final boss that I understood in a final fantasy game?

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

WOW. That mock-up is awesome. Forget about a FF7 remake. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE a FF8 sequel. Maybe then the writers could settle this debate for good. :lol

 

[Scythesurge]

Well if there's anything that this analysis has made me realize, it's that VIII has some really great graphics and music. Especially for it's time.

 

[Rahul]

This theory is nice and interesting to read, but it's obviously not true. Square hasn't told a good story in a very very long time. This theory might absolve ff8 if it were true, but then what's square's excuse for ff7, ff9, ff10, ff12, and (from what I've heard here at gaf) ff13?

Square has been trying to be overly epic for too long and the reason why is obvious - it's what final fantasy is and it's what final fantasy fans want. The result is always shit, cliche, super anime influenced and nonsensical... but it's what people with awful taste in story-telling want. Nobody is punishing them for their products. It's still selling millions. The next iteration still gets plenty of hype. It's still a sure thing.

FF8 is not a blemish in the history of square, it's just the biggest stain in a room that hasn't been cleaned in 10 years. There is no need for theorizing anything. FF8's plot is just like FF7's but just a tad more ridiculous. The same goes for ff9.

Do you have any idea how long it's been since I fought a final boss that I understood in a final fantasy game?

Hmm. Final Fantasy XII?

@Himuro: found it on a Facebook FF8 fan page. Dunno where it's from.