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[Fuchsdh]

I'm not saying other forms of harassment aren't worse or disgusting (they are, absolutely more so), I'm just saying this is also disgusting.

Anita used "You suck" as an example of online harassment at her talk at the UN, is that inherently worse that "set yourself on fire"?

I'm not trying to marginalize harassment, I think there is harassment out there that is obviously harassment and obviously repugnant, but I think when it comes to the less "obvious" cases like above, it's still important that even these smaller examples of hateful speech are harmful.

I don't even really think it's a matter of the speech itself. I try to be a bit more civil, but I'm sure I've said the equivalent of "you suck" to someone online. But when you have dozens or hundreds of people dedicated to calling you an idiot, it has a multiplication effect. Even the death threats I find pretty easy to laugh off, but if you're on the receiving end of hundreds it becomes much more unsettling—after all you only need the one crazy in thousands to turn the threats into reality.

I don't really see a great and easy way to legislate the difference though. Cyberstalking itself is perhaps easier to target, but there's still a lot of grey involved. Are you going to ban someone from individual web sites? Where people are often anonymous, how do you prevent interactions?

That said yeah, I don't consider it "violence". While I hate that some people treat "it happened on the internet" to mean "then it doesn't really matter", there's still differences between conduct online and in the real world that merit consideration.

 

[Doomburrito7]

Reacting like this in response to harassment isn't...harassment. You realise that, right?

Yes, let's just ignore all context and call someone disgusting after constant harassment from GamerGate assholes like you.

Context:

Man, that's some really bad harassment!

 

[partyphone]

the hole wadhwa thing is complicated and ugly and went on for days. showing a single screen grab out of context is disingenuous.

 

[Dongs Macabre]

the hole wadhwa thing is complicated and ugly and went on for days. showing a single screen grab out of context is disingenuous.

It's what gators do best.

 

[Doomburrito7]

the hole wadhwa thing is complicated and ugly and went on for days. showing a single screen grab out of context is disingenuous.

How far back do I need to screengrab to provide context for my context? Clearly you know the background of it.

 

[partyphone]

How far back do I need to screengrab to provide context for my context? Clearly you know the background of it.

how about not screengrabbing at all? if you're interested in actually discussing this and not just scoring cheap points maybe you should explain who wadhwa is and why someone would be pissed off at him and his dogpilers.

 

[Palette Swap]

Congrats on the Randi Lee Harper gotcha derail !

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

Context:

Man, that's some really bad harassment!

That's still not the context, because you've grabbed a single conversation from among a flood of attention.

By isolating it like that, it implies that she just got contacted by one solitary dude offering some really unhelpful advice, rather than the reality of that being one of a great number of dogpilers offering the same lame bullshit.

 

[Doomburrito7]

how about not screengrabbing at all? if you're interested in actually discussing this and not just scoring cheap points maybe you should explain who wadhwa is and why someone would be pissed off at him and his dogpilers.

I'd be happy to.

Vivek Wadhwa is a tech entrepreneur/column writer who spent a lot of focus on writing about the need to have more women in technology fields. While he had a lot of support from publications like Forbes, Wall Street Journal, etc, he also had a lot people who criticized him for having an outdated message (women need to toughen up and go into tech) and instances of him using offensive language ("floozies" at one point, but he claimed that was a mistake due to not knowing it was offensive slang, English not being his first language. He also apologized was this was pointed out). Also, many people felt that him being a man speaking for women only emphasized that people would listen to a man and not a woman on these issues, that were about women in the first place.

Randi wrote an angry and negative review on Amazon based on Wadhwa's book (which was about how we need more women in the tech industry), which was removed from Amazon because they agreed it was not a constructive review.

This led to Wadhwa using the book's twitter account to RT Randi's complaints, which led to the messy back and forth you mentioned.

---

I think it's a really interesting discussion actually. On one hand, you have Wadhwa's side claiming that he was honestly working to help women in tech. On the other side, you have people claiming that he was working only for his own personal profit. On the point that we're talking about though, I haven't been able to find actual harassing tweets from Wadhwa's side, and I'd be happy to reconsider my opinion if I was shown otherwise. I'm sure there are other points to the story, and if there are, let me know!

From my perspective, Randi's reaction was overblown, offensive, and makes it hard for me to get beside inviting her to speak on an important topic (harassment) that I feel she doesn't uphold herself.

By isolating it like that, it implies that she just got contacted by one solitary dude offering some really unhelpful advice, rather than the reality of that being one of a great number of dogpilers offering the same lame bullshit.

What were some of the things being said? Was it stuff in the same vein Kannan, which I don't think warranted her response, or was it actually harmful/harassing responses? I'm happy to be proven wrong and have my mind changed.

---

And to people saying this is derailing the conversation, I disagree. Randi was invited just as Anita and Zoe were, and I think that it reflects poorly to have people like Randi being lumped in with the rest of them.

 

[partyphone]

that's nice that you can't find any harassing tweets from wadhwa's supporters. I'm sure it's just a bunch of fine young gentlemen just asking questions or offering what they consider helpful advice.

and the dude is way more concerned about self promotion than promoting women in tech. a feminist ally wouldn't link breitbart hit pieces and direct his 55k followers at a person who left a negative amazon review.

 

[Doomburrito7]

that's nice that you can't find any harassing tweets from wadhwa's supporters. I'm sure it's just a bunch of fine young gentlemen just asking questions or offering what they consider helpful advice.

and the dude is way more concerned about self promotion than promoting women in tech. a feminist ally wouldn't link breitbart hit pieces and direct his 55k followers at a person who left a negative amazon review.

I'm not saying there weren't harassing tweets, I just can't find them as I'm trying to look through previous articles, etc. If you have examples, again, I want to be informed on both sides. I'm not saying that sarcastically, or as a challenge. Just looking to see both sides of the story.

 

[Armaros]

I'm not saying there weren't harassing tweets, I just can't find them as I'm trying to look through previous articles, etc. If you have examples, again, I want to be informed on both sides. I'm not saying that sarcastically, or as a challenge. Just looking to see both sides of the story.

Yet could only be bothered to post screen caps of one side before finding information and screencaps regarding the entire situation.

 

[Mael]

Derek Smart invents feud with Randi Harper

He also texted her on her Google Voice number and threatened her.

WTF is this shit?
This guy is the Cthulu version of trolling, like wth was that!

 

[Sijil]

WTF is this shit?
This guy is the Cthulu version of trolling, like wth was that!

That was Derek Smart, I would call him a master troll but that would mean he has skills and smart enough to use them, but he actually believes every word he says, a true megalomaniac, what's more sad is that there actual people who follow him.

 

[FStop7]

Looking forward to the outrage from my favorite Gamer Gate Heroes of the Web.

Is that second guy Kane from Command and Conquer?

 

[Freshmaker]

What/who is that? And how is it relevant as a discussion point?

Look up the GAF thread where he was swatted. People were perfectly cool with that harassment.

 

[Doomburrito7]

Yet could only be bothered to post screen caps of one side before finding information and screencaps regarding the entire situation.

That's the side I've seen, and that I've personally agreed with so far. And if I had screencaps of the other side that had relevance, I'd post those too, as I've asked others to. Every page I've gone to so far really only has those screencaps.

Jesus, I've even tried search twitter for those dates to try to find the people she is responding to, but everyone else in that fire tweet was on her side (torvos and anildash). (and when I try to look up her own tweets from that time, nothing comes up)

Look, again, if you have examples of how people were responding to her, I honestly would like to see them.

 

[Dongs Macabre]

I'm not saying there weren't harassing tweets, I just can't find them as I'm trying to look through previous articles, etc. If you have examples, again, I want to be informed on both sides. I'm not saying that sarcastically, or as a challenge. Just looking to see both sides of the story.

Are these articles from Breitbart by any chance?

You're really not fooling anyone with the concern trolling.

 

[MisterR]

That's the side I've seen, and that I've personally agreed with so far. And if I had screencaps of the other side that had relevance, I'd post those too, as I've asked others to. Every page I've gone to so far really only has those screencaps.

Jesus, I've even tried search twitter for those dates to try to find the people she is responding to, but everyone else in that fire tweet was on her side (torvos and anildash). (and when I try to look up her own tweets from that time, nothing comes up)

Look, again, if you have examples of how people were responding to her, I honestly would like to see them.

This isn't a thread for actual discussion.

 

[MisterR]

Are these articles from Breitbart by any chance?

You're really not fooling anyone with the concern trolling.

If you think he's concern trolling then call him out and show some evidence.

 

[Doomburrito7]

Are these articles from Breitbart by any chance?

You're really not fooling anyone with the concern trolling.

No, I've looked at every single page that comes up on the first two pages when you Google search "randi harper wadhwa". These are the only screencaps that I've seen.

Things I've said so far:

1. I think online harassment is repugnant, and I'm glad Google Ideas is bringing people in to talk about it.

2. I think Randi is a poor example and should not be held as someone to look up to in terms of people who should be speaking on online harassment

3. I am open to discussion and would like to see the other side of people who say she is justified in telling a bunch of other users online to set themselves on fire and then preach not to harass people.

What is so controversial in those statements to suggest trolling?

 

[weemadarthur]

Look up the GAF thread where he was swatted. People were perfectly cool with that harassment.

Ok, that could relate.

What year was the original incident?
Did anyone take credit for causing the swatting?
The gaffers that didn't object - do they object to other harassment? Have they since been banned? Are they the same people who also don't object to this-threads sort of harassment?

 

[andymcc]

the hole wadhwa thing is complicated and ugly and went on for days. showing a single screen grab out of context is disingenuous.

pretty sure dude's own twitter account was suspended. i wonder what for.

 

[partyphone]

Anita, Zoe and Randi were just regular people, not anyone too special. they're not the only ones, of course. but the stories are all very similar. Minor celebrities in very niche corners of the web. then gamergate decided to focus their hatred on them. and rather than shrink away and be silent they decided to fight back and endure the abuse. their goal is to make it so some. don't have to abandon doing something they love because they can't live with the abuse. which is why they were recently at Google and the UN. and it's why their twitter timelines are being bombarded with tons and tons of garbage right now. more than the normal amount.

so randi getting pissed off at a bunch of dudes shitting up her timeline with crap should be completely understandable.

 

[Doomburrito7]

pretty sure dude's own twitter account was suspended. i wonder what for.

Advanced Search shows him posting almost daily from the date of the incident forward. That must have been a rough suspension, huh?

 

[partyphone]

If you think he's concern trolling then call him out and show some evidence.

the evidence are his posts. randi harper is not a perfect human being and should not be allowed to speak about harassment.

 

[partyphone]

pfffffffffft. almost all of the top sites for "randi harper wadhwa" are either breitbart or other gator sites. like reaxxion. the now defunct "ethical" gaming site founded by MRA and rapist rooshv.

not super sure what Randi or Wadhwa have to do with video games....

 

[Doomburrito7]

so randi getting pissed off at a bunch of dudes shitting up her timeline with crap should be completely understandable.

There are tons of other people in the Google Ideas group who have NEVER acted in that way when dealing with the exact same stuff (I can't think of a single example where Anita actually acted out against people in a negative way like that)

the evidence are his posts. randi harper is not a perfect human being and should not be allowed to speak about harassment.

No, Randi Harper harasses people online, and should not be allowed to speak about harassment.

pfffffffffft. almost all of the top sites for "randi harper wadhwa" are either breitbart or other gator sites. like reaxxion. the now defunct "ethical" gaming site founded by MRA and rapist rooshv.

Ok, what site should I look at?

 

[andymcc]

Advanced Search shows him posting almost daily from the date of the incident forward. That must have been a rough suspension, huh?

i quoted the wrong post evidently but i was actually referring to you.

 

[Dongs Macabre]

If you think he's concern trolling then call him out and show some evidence.

I know for a fact that he's a gator. I can post some evidence assuming it's not against the rules or anything.

 

[partyphone]

There are tons of other people in the Google Ideas group who have NEVER acted in that way when dealing with the exact same stuff (I can't think of a single example where Anita actually acted out against people in a negative way like that)

Zoe certainly has. Anita's personal twitter account is private. the @femfreq account is for her brand and is tightly managed.

No, Randi Harper harasses people online, and should not be allowed to speak about harassment.

you're using the present tense like she's currently doing it right now. we've all done shitty things in the past. that doesn't exclude us from trying to do good things now.

Ok, what site should I look at?

maybe some place reputable? if you don't know how to determine that I think we've found our problem.

 

[Doomburrito7]

i quoted the wrong post evidently but i was actually referring to you.

No? You sure you're looking at the right account? Only Twitter account I have is my personal one that doesn't share this username.

I know for a fact that he's a gator. I can post some evidence assuming it's not against the rules or anything.

Please do. That would be surprising to everyone, including me.

 

[Doomburrito7]

maybe some place reputable? if you don't know how to determine that I think we've found our problem.

Ok, so what ARE those sites? I've gone through multiple pages of searching about this, it's not like I can search "source website that please partyphone". If the sites that appear on Google aren't good, what site would you suggest?

 

[Henkka]

For further context into the mess that is the last page of this thread, here's the review she wrote.

The book is a collection of stories from women in tech, co-authored by a woman. Randi seems to take issue that Wadhwa's name is above hers on the cover. She didn't read the book. I can't speak to Wadhwa's online behaviour, though. Amazon removed the review.

 

[APF]

Harper's caustic posts are pretty much entirely against people who do not follow her, popping into her replies to concern troll. That's not harassment, that's just not backing down from people trying to antagonize her. Show me posts where she's randomly popping into other folks' replies for no particular reason and I'll see the beginning of a point.

 

[Dongs Macabre]

No? You sure you're looking at the right account? Only Twitter account I have is my personal one that doesn't share this username.



Please do. That would be surprising to everyone, including me.

EDIT: I don't want to post someone else's posts if they're not actually a gator.

 

[Doomburrito7]

Well, your GAF profile has your PSN username on it. I googled that and found this post on GameFAQs. That username then led me to this Reddit post. Then a couple of pages into the post history of that user was this post on KotakuInAction. All this seems to suggest that you're a gator that is just here to concern troll, like gators tend to do.

Yes, I have a single post on KiA because it was on r/All and I saw it was about a celebrity I've met. My post has nothing to do with GG, I don't even know it was KiA until now.

 

[cyress8]

Derek Smart invents feud with Randi Harper

He also texted her on her Google Voice number and threatened her.

What the fuuuuck!?! Derek should be in a mental institution.

 

[randomengine]

Well, your GAF profile has your PSN username on it. I googled that and found this post on GameFAQs. That username then led me to this Reddit post. Then a couple of pages into the post history of that user was this post on KotakuInAction. All this seems to suggest that you're a gator that is just here to concern troll, like gators tend to do.

Well, done.

 

[SodiumBenzoate]

(serious tryhard witch hunting)

Uh, Don't you think you're taking this a bit far?

 

[Doomburrito7]

Well, done.

Did you even read the post he linked to? I just commented that I met a celebrity in LA, on a post that hit r/all and came across my feed. That' been entirely my connection to KiA

BUT I GUESS I'M A GATOR GUYS, YA GOT ME

 

[Doomburrito7]

Edit: Double post

 

[Dongs Macabre]

Yes, I have a single post on KiA because it was on r/All and I saw it was about a celebrity I've met. My post has nothing to do with GG, I don't even know it was KiA until now.

I'm sorry then if you're not actually a gator, but it's rather suspicious when someone comes into a thread about Anita Sarkeesian or Zoe Quinn and uses sources like Breitbart and Reaxxion or whatever to make their points. This is something that gators do all the time, in pretty much every thread involving GamerGate targets.

 

[Doomburrito7]

I'm sorry then if you're not actually a gator, but it's rather suspicious when someone comes into a thread about Anita Sarkeesian or Zoe Quinn and uses sources like Breitbart and Reaxxion or whatever to make their points. This is something that gators do all the time, in pretty much every thread involving GamerGate targets.

Dude, those are the TOP PAGES that appear when you Google about it. I'm not pushing any damn agenda, I'm trying to READ MORE ABOUT IT and discuss it with others who have a different opinion that I'm INTERESTED IN KNOWING ABOUT.

Jesus Christ, is this seriously how you treat anyone who comes in asking about something?

Yes, my first post was confrontational with the image of Randi telling people to set themselves on fire. Everything I had experienced up to that point only showed that screengrab. People here told me there was 2nd side, I asked for more information, and you try to witch hunt me by going through archives of my personal history on other websites, only to show, what exactly? That I met a celebrity in LA? Holy shit, man.

 

[Misc]

Well, your GAF profile has your PSN username on it. I googled that and found this post on GameFAQs. That username then led me to this Reddit post. Then a couple of pages into the post history of that user was this post on KotakuInAction. All this seems to suggest that you're a gator that is just here to concern troll, like gators tend to do.

I've just read the content of those post and no, it does not seem to suggest anything.

 

[kd-z]

Well, your GAF profile has your PSN username on it. I googled that and found this post on GameFAQs. That username then led me to this Reddit post. Then a couple of pages into the post history of that user was this post on KotakuInAction. All this seems to suggest that you're a gator that is just here to concern troll, like gators tend to do.

Hey man, if you treat everyone with the same amount of suspicion you directed towards Doomburrito7 (awesome nickname btw) then, man, I don't think you're going to achieve anything. In order to convince people of what you believe in you have to open and present yourself to them.

All of this shouldn't be about blocking and silencing people who don't agree with feminist ideals. it should be about making them see and understand.

Shouldn't it?

ed: originally this post started off with a rather dickish and unnecesary rant. I deleted it because, well, the internet also allows us to hide our dickish behavior

 

[Dongs Macabre]

Dude, those are the TOP PAGES that appear when you Google about it. I'm not pushing any damn agenda, I'm trying to READ MORE ABOUT IT and discuss it with others who have a different opinion that I'm INTERESTED IN KNOWING ABOUT.

Jesus Christ, is this seriously how you treat anyone who comes in asking about something?

Yes, my first post was confrontational with the image of Randi telling people to set themselves on fire. Everything I had experienced up to that point only showed that screengrab. People here told me there was 2nd side, I asked for more information, and you try to witch hunt me by going through archives of my personal history on other websites, only to show, what exactly? That I met a celebrity in LA? Holy shit, man.

Again, I'm sorry if you're not a gator, but actual gators do this sort of thing all the time. After a while it's impossible to tell when someone is being serious, or just concern trolling.

 

[depths20XX]

I'm sorry then if you're not actually a gator, but it's rather suspicious when someone comes into a thread about Anita Sarkeesian or Zoe Quinn and uses sources like Breitbart and Reaxxion or whatever to make their points. This is something that gators do all the time, in pretty much every thread involving GamerGate targets.

Wow, you're really creepy and have issues.

Edit: Ok turns out the Doomburrito guy was a gator. Still think the internet stalking stuff is creepy.

 

[Doomburrito7]

Again, I'm sorry if you're not a gator, but actual gators do this sort of thing all the time. After a while it's impossible to tell when someone is being serious, or just concern trolling.

So, if we're basing our opinions on random examples and insinuations, should I now use you as an example that anti-gators refuse to have a discussion, and like stalking personal archives?

The whole gator/anti-gator stuff is bullshit. I don't care, I won't care, I have no interest in caring.

If someone says something I agree with, I agree with them. And vice versa. This whole tribal politics thing is insane.

 

[partyphone]

Ok, so what ARE those sites? I've gone through multiple pages of searching about this, it's not like I can search "source website that please partyphone". If the sites that appear on Google aren't good, what site would you suggest?

why do you have this opinion of Randi? link your sources. don't just say "well I googled it".

when pressed on it you were quick to come up with details about Wadhwa so you've obviously read about this. link what you read. please.