User 73706
Banned
I'm riffing off of one of GameGuru59's infamous "literally arguing in favor of jim crow laws" posts.
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Are we too easily offended these days?
- Thread starter pgtl_10
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I'm riffing off of one of GameGuru59's infamous "literally arguing in favor of jim crow laws" posts.
You lost me.
Well, first of all there are obviously legitimate reasons to take offence to something. Shaming people for genuine transgressive acts can serve as a check and balance to society. The problem is when it is not because of a person's actions or the content of their argument but rather the language they use. So an example would be Tim Hunt who joked about women in science labs. The evidence suggests it was just a joke, but because of the subject of the joke and the language used it was deemed 'offensive' and lost his job.
Consider also the UN report on Cyber VAWG(Violence Against Women and Girls). Their argument for tackling the issue was to ask governments to create legislation that effectively creates a dangerous precedent for Free Speech online. Now harassment online whether against men or women is a new issue we face, but what we need is a fair and measured approach to this. Anita Sarkeesian for instance, when speaking at the UN not only spoke about real threats, but being called a 'liar' or that she 'sucked' was also an issue. Not only that but videos on Youtube that criticised her views (what she called 'hate' videos) was an issue. Now regardless of whether you agree with the criticism hurled at her on those youtube videos or not, most of them are still just criticism or ridicule. There is huge difference between videos like that and threats.
Not only that, stuff about online pornography and violent video games was snuck into the report. This has nothing to do with the issue at all.
The truth is, some people are always going to be easily offended, the problem is when there are real world repercussions. So in the case of Tim Hunt he lost his job. That creates a chilling climate where people no longer feel free to be able to speak their mind no matter how reasonable their argument is.
I am an advocate for unadulterated freedom of speech because I believe that bad ideas will be chased out within an open and free expression. I think banning ideas will make the problem worse because those ideas are never challenged. It also means that legitimate ideas that are true, but just happen to be extremely controversial are never aired. In that case it would be a hindrance to progress.
User 73706
Banned
Well, first of all there are obviously legitimate reasons to take offence to something. Shaming people for genuine transgressive acts can serve as a check and balance to society. The problem is when it is not because of a person's actions or the content of their argument but rather the language they use. So an example would be Tim Hunt who joked about women in science labs. The evidence suggests it was just a joke, but because of the subject of the joke and the language used it was deemed 'offensive' and lost his job.
Consider also the UN report on Cyber VAWG(Violence Against Women and Girls). Their argument for tackling the issue was to ask governments to create legislation that effectively creates a dangerous precedent for Free Speech online. Now harassment online whether against men or women is a new issue we face, but what we need is a fair and measured approach to this. Anita Sarkeesian for instance, when speaking at the UN not only spoke about real threats, but being called a 'liar' or that she 'sucked' was also an issue. Not only that but videos on Youtube that criticised her views (what she called 'hate' videos) was an issue. Now regardless of whether you agree with the criticism hurled at her on those youtube videos or not, most of them are still just criticism or ridicule. There is huge difference between videos like that and threats.
Not only that, stuff about online pornography and violent video games was snuck into the report. This has nothing to do with the issue at all.
The truth is, some people are always going to be easily offended, the problem is when there are real world repercussions. So in the case of Tim Hunt he lost his job. That creates a chilling climate where people no longer feel free to be able to speak their mind no matter how reasonable their argument is.
I am an advocate for unadulterated freedom of speech because I believe that bad ideas will be chased out within an open and free expression. I think banning ideas will make the problem worse because those ideas are never challenged. It also means that legitimate ideas that are true, but just happen to be extremely controversial are never aired. In that case it would be a hindrance to progress.
dying at "what anita calls 'hate' videos"
partyphone
Banned
Tim Hunt didn't lose his job. Maybe actually get your facts straight before getting all offended at feminists.
Popehat once again
https://popehat.com/2015/10/06/this-royal-throne-of-feels-this-sheltered-isle-this-england/
Also, the Tim Hunt "scandal" (Ie, COMPLETE AND UTTER BULLSHIT) is probably a pretty damning thread in terms of "people getting offended easily and w/o the full story". He did resign from multiple posts - so being inaccurately pedantic is probably a bad look.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Hunt#Remarks_about_women_in_science
For those who never saw what actually happened regarding Tim Hunt:
https://reason.com/archives/2015/07/23/sexist-scientist-tim-hunt-the-real-story
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/article4501473.ece
Tim Hunt is an acute example of a) people getting offended "easily" and b) social media witch hunts based on those initial emotional reactions.
https://popehat.com/2015/10/06/this-royal-throne-of-feels-this-sheltered-isle-this-england/
Also, the Tim Hunt "scandal" (Ie, COMPLETE AND UTTER BULLSHIT) is probably a pretty damning thread in terms of "people getting offended easily and w/o the full story". He did resign from multiple posts - so being inaccurately pedantic is probably a bad look.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Hunt#Remarks_about_women_in_science
For those who never saw what actually happened regarding Tim Hunt:
https://reason.com/archives/2015/07/23/sexist-scientist-tim-hunt-the-real-story
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/article4501473.ece
Tim Hunt is an acute example of a) people getting offended "easily" and b) social media witch hunts based on those initial emotional reactions.
partyphone
Banned
resigning from honorary positions isn't losing your job. he's going to be fine.
EDIT: I stand corrected - the job was non paying. My apologies partyphone.
The reason he's going to be fine is because people actually did a little investigating and found out that the initial reporters were flat out lying and deliberately misconstruing his words to be "offended" and then set off a social media hunt that would a) make them feel better and b) get them noticed as reporters.
Wonder if those reporters will ever get punished.
uncelestial
Member
So your argument is that because people were offended by huge things a few times over the last several hundred years, that's the same as people combing all social interactions for things literally called "microaggressions," and trying to create national infamy for offenders by naming them and using hashtags to organize their public shaming - which is happening every fucking day?
Sorry for the late reply, I forgot about this thread.
I don't see how your "who's gonna sweep the floor?" argument has anything to do with this discussion. In fact, I think it's rather racist, a good example of shaming the person asking the question, and typical of people who don't want an issue to actually be discussed..
We have an entire system of letting people into this country. If you want to immigrate, then you have a means of doing so. If we want you here, we'll say yes. If we don't, we'll say no. A bunch of people throwing the middle finger to that system and coming in illegally is a problem.
Lashley
Why does he wear the mask!?
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
It definitely doesn't take a lot to offend you.
I'm not sure about other countries but right here in the USA it's fucking horrible. everyone is a victim. "Everyone else needs to change to fit my wants and desires"
guess what, you can be offended. It's your own problem. fucking deal with it.
the problem is when we start giving in to unreasonable requests and the fact like 'zero tolerance' systems are in place for school systems. I feel horrible for the children. even worse when you have fucking nutcases shooting people up because people aren't the same as them.
guess what, you can be offended. It's your own problem. fucking deal with it.
the problem is when we start giving in to unreasonable requests and the fact like 'zero tolerance' systems are in place for school systems. I feel horrible for the children. even worse when you have fucking nutcases shooting people up because people aren't the same as them.
Lashley
Why does he wear the mask!?
I'm offended? News to me
Haha, can't believe it
partyphone
Banned
pretty weird that you care about an extension, though
Seems more like he cares about the controversy that was created by an extension.
Lashley
Why does he wear the mask!?
I don't. I find it funny that an extension was changed to prevent anyone being offended.
I can't grasp how it would offend anyone?
partyphone
Banned
yeah such a devastating controversy. that sound you hear is me rolling my eyes.
Sometimes The Onion lays it on a little too thick.
paragonpro
Banned
Yes, yes we are. I think people like the outrage, they like the feeling of being on a high horse. Now thats not to say you should go and shout offensive shit, but when every little thing we do is closely monitored and inspected with a fine toothed comb for a monicome of something people can be outraged about, yes its a problem. Its become a witch hunt honestly.
And there is no way that story is real.
And there is no way that story is real.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
I cannot believe that someone is offended that someone else is posting about people being Disney levels of making sure people aren't being offended. I mean like bro. No seriously though I rolled my eyes at that news story, it has to be fake.
dark_prinny
Banned
Absolutely.
Vicetrailia
Member
Not really. When you're reaching enormous populations of people you're gonna get big combinations of everything. It's just basically effortless to organize amongst like minded people. As a result the power of groups are incredibly potent and move at supersonic speeds.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
Why not just do .brotli in the first place?
It sure doesn't take a lot to offend feminists. It sure doesn't take a lot to offend the offenders. Really, what the hell kinda response is that?
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
This is a more common meme in this topic than the Stephen Fry image now.
Crumpet Trumpet
Banned
i feel like people who are offended by "cracker" are a bit insufferable ngl
SuperEpicGuy
Banned
Yes. YES. 100% absolutely a resounding yes. Regardless of what anyone says, mostly everyone has gotten cotton candy soft. I can't handle the softness anymore, everything I say is either apparently offensive, oppresive, supporting the patriarchy or misogynistic just cause I'm a white male. Oh boo hoo, your feelings are hurt, when I was a kid I just sucked it up and do that now but that's apparently too much for you to handle.
edit:
edit:
Oh jeez, I can't even handle this anymore. Bro is misogynistic.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
.bro, that's not normal..go grab some Visine!
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Your interpretation of feminist criticisms of culture are bad and self-centered. No one says this.
It doesn't seem like you've sucked it up at all, actually.
Perhaps, but I would be be lying if I said I didn't enjoy people losing their minds over this.
"Oh no, someone called me out because I said something stupid, oh no, it's the end of the world the government is out to get us, implanting chips in our brains to control our thoughts only a matter of time until reptilians establish a new world order."
the hyperbole gets old, if it's a problem it's an incredibly minute one that doesn't deserve the backlash it is getting, I enjoy being un-PC but I can't stand anti-PC people so I like being PC just to spite them.
"Oh no, someone called me out because I said something stupid, oh no, it's the end of the world the government is out to get us, implanting chips in our brains to control our thoughts only a matter of time until reptilians establish a new world order."
the hyperbole gets old, if it's a problem it's an incredibly minute one that doesn't deserve the backlash it is getting, I enjoy being un-PC but I can't stand anti-PC people so I like being PC just to spite them.
I don't think we're too easily offended, but I do think we tend to misdirect our energies on what to get offended by. More often than not, real shit, the stuff we should really take up our torches and pitchforks out for (i.e., women's rights, the continued dehumanization and marginalization of blacks in this country, gun control reform, etc), gets buried underneath a lot of the faux rage, and then the faux rage is used as an excuse to not talk about the real shit.
It all just comes off as deflection. Like my wife says, people only have really strong opinions on things that don't matter (i.e., Doctor Who potentially getting cancelled or turned into a series of hour and a half long movies), whereas they are often indifferent to the things that DO matter.
I think people are right to speak up when they're angry by something, but I also think people need to be more discerning and to pick their battles, so as to not potentially dilute the outrage over the things that matter. Social networks have made it easier to make your opinions known, and I'm all for the idiots putting themselves as idiots, as well as the people using social media to affect real change.
Look at this years E3. I was there, and walking the show floor, it felt like the overwhelming theme of this year's E3 was , "Women In Gaming Matter Too." It was fantastic. And I think a lot of that mentality, the influx of games with awesomely designed and created female leads, is due to what people like Anita Sarkesian have been doing to broaden how game developers approach creating games. Sure, the discussion often gets drowned out by bullshit, but the discussion is still worth having, and is still being pushed forward.
If people weren't upset, and yes, offended by the portrayal of women in games enough to speak up, we wouldn't be where we're at right now, and things wouldn't still be improving.
It all just comes off as deflection. Like my wife says, people only have really strong opinions on things that don't matter (i.e., Doctor Who potentially getting cancelled or turned into a series of hour and a half long movies), whereas they are often indifferent to the things that DO matter.
I think people are right to speak up when they're angry by something, but I also think people need to be more discerning and to pick their battles, so as to not potentially dilute the outrage over the things that matter. Social networks have made it easier to make your opinions known, and I'm all for the idiots putting themselves as idiots, as well as the people using social media to affect real change.
Look at this years E3. I was there, and walking the show floor, it felt like the overwhelming theme of this year's E3 was , "Women In Gaming Matter Too." It was fantastic. And I think a lot of that mentality, the influx of games with awesomely designed and created female leads, is due to what people like Anita Sarkesian have been doing to broaden how game developers approach creating games. Sure, the discussion often gets drowned out by bullshit, but the discussion is still worth having, and is still being pushed forward.
If people weren't upset, and yes, offended by the portrayal of women in games enough to speak up, we wouldn't be where we're at right now, and things wouldn't still be improving.
The most common meme in this topic is probably the "oh you think people are too easily offended, that means YOU are the one who is too easily offended!"-crap i see on every other page.
velociraptor
Junior Member
An illustrious and insightful post history. Thanks for the laugh.
But I do generally think everyone gets offended too easily over everything. There tends to be a lot of hysteria when game developers do something 'controversial' i.e. play into female stereotypes. Honestly, who the fuck cares? It's a damn game. Having said that, there is no reason to openly insult and attack others. e.g. racism.
Yes. In the case of video games, I feel that life would be simpler if people played a MMO of their choice as their primary game. I feel MMOs like Final Fantasy XIV do the best job at making both the progressives and conservatives happy by actually providing a good reason for the progressive content. For example, same-sex marriage is supported because not supporting it would alienate non-straight customers but unlike progressive single player games, the conservative players have no choice but to understand it because this is not a case of progressives trying to force their values onto players which is a complaint we've all heard time and again.
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