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Armband-wearing Nazi roams Seattle instigating, gets KOed, removes armband and leaves

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J

jay

Member
Stormhammer said:
sometimes i feel like people are against the violence because of being afraid of escalation interrupting their comfort
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I think it's partly that but also we have all been flooded with propaganda about nonviolence. A lot of the people complaining about violence are probably making a good faith argument we just disagree with. For what it's worth, if you had asked me about this a decade ago I would possibly have argued violence is never acceptable and also would not have been a Nazi.
 
Vigilant Walrus

Vigilant Walrus

Member
Lesath said:
I will state that I appreciate your effort into posting and sourcing of how kindness and understanding can defeat hate; it is a far improvement over those who would simply quote some historical figure or another and let the appeal to authority argue for them.

Still, as others and I have stated many times throughout this thread, donning the Nazi symbol is a declaration of violent intent, hardly different than wearing the Klan hood or waving the flag of ISIS, and is at the very least an intimidation tactic.

When we speak of empathy, why should we extend it to the aggressors before we extend it to the victimized? What do the minority groups feel when they see someone openly hate them in such a way, and what do the minority groups feel when the response of the general public is apathy ("neo-Nazis...are not a cause of concern"), scrutiny ("responding to violence with violence"), and even sympathy for their oppressors and those associated with them ("you forget that other people will be hurt in the chain").

When we speak of objectivity and rationality, why is this logically terrible slippery-slope, both-sides-"can't-isolate-violence-to-any-one-faction", argument about the normalization of tit-for-tat violence more concerning to you than the oppression of minorities?
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You bring up some good points!:)

I don't know why you think I am of the opinion that we should extend empathy to aggressors before the victimized, or why you think that I am more concerned about normalized violence than oppression of minorities. I'm not. But we're talking about this here, and in the other threads about justifying violence on people on the other side of the ideological spectrum.

I don't know if I agree that a symbols being declarations of violent intent. I worry that people are framing this like this disingenuously to absolve themselves of being able to use critical thinking to asses the difference between a potential threat and a threat.
I believe a lot of people here are against scared cops shooting first over the guise of "he was a potential threat", or places like Floridas "stand your ground laws", or Fox News doing their best to label the Orlando shooter to ISIS, just because he declared himself allied to them before he did the act.

We don't accept that people are unambiguously violent just because there was the potential for a threat. It has to be a undeniable imminient threat before you're allowed to destroy that person.
If you say something is a declaration for violence, it means that you have to destroy it right now or you will be destroyed.
Hench the "not real nazis", "not a big cause for concern". The side that argues that they are not worth taking serious, and the other side saying that they are building the concentration camps as we speak. And Trump is the catalyst that justify all of this, which a lot of us predicted. The left would become more violent as the right becomes more violent.

But you might be right. In fact, I hope so. Because it means that if you can punch the problem away, it's going to get better. It's just that I am cynical, and I struggle to have faith that this won't end in a disaster. So I really hope you're right.




Haly said:
Why don't people worry about the slippery slope of giving Nazis an open platform? A slope that we know exists because we fought a world war over it?
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They have had open platforms forever thou. There has been tens of thousands of neo-nazis rallies all over the western world for many decades. And people have tried punching them, and it doesn't work. They come back. People are predisposed to becoming part of hate groups because their lives suck, not because of enticing politics or sound arguments.
Neo-Nazis can assemble, they can make clubs, radio shows, video games, march sanctioned marches down the street. And its being going on forever. It seems that people are carring about now due to Trump. But its not new, and it's very difficult to find stats on how many there are now compared to decade(s) ago.
The people who join this shit are the same who join suicide cults and biker gangs and insane clown possee. Broken people who need a group as a crutch.

Can the US go ultra far right nationalistic? Sure. But it won't be on a nazi ticket. Don't forget many of these white supremacists have totally different goals and contexts. You have white supremacists who support Israel (because it's an apartheid state that subjugates muslim and keeps the entire region in check) and white supremacists who use terms from the Quran to make a "white jihad".

No. A fall for the US would be through economic collapse. 150 million people who cannot eat, or pay to get through the day. That is the stuff that will cause a real shift towards totalitarian right-wing conservatism. It's universally proven that in harsh times people become more conservative.




Stormhammer said:
sometimes i feel like people are against the violence because of being afraid of escalation interrupting their comfort
Click to expand...

Absolutely, that is a part of it for me. That's just the truth. I suspect I am afraid of losing what I have, and having a more extremist society will many terrible things for myself and those I care about.
 
P

PeakPointMatrix

Member
TeamLeftMatch said:
Made Gifs for you all:

giphy.gif


Shorter version:

giphy.gif


And the aftermath

giphy.gif
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I just wanted to qoute this again because I wanted to.

It should be on every page.
 
L

Lil'DigiOp

Member
Jeremy said:
Can you imagine if you were a PoC and went out walking with a GAFfer and stumbled across this dude?

You'd have to ride the line between having your humanity harassed and desecrated on a public sidewalk, while trying not to offend your companion by reacting or saying anything except listening intently because they're actually super fucking passionate about allowing this guy his freedom of speech, no matter the cost to you or anyone else.
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I'd punch both of them
 
C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
Even as someone who is pretty pro free-speech, can't say I am too saddened by this.

The social media part is goddamn terrifying though. I do not want flesh searches to start becoming a thing here. Tracking people through social media and stalking them...yeah...that can't possibly go bad (especially for women).
 
T

thespot84

Member
Vigilant Walrus said:
They have had open platforms forever thou. There has been tens of thousands of neo-nazis rallies all over the western world for many decades. And people have tried punching them, and it doesn't work. They come back. People are predisposed to becoming part of hate groups because their lives suck, not because of enticing politics or sound arguments.
Neo-Nazis can assemble, they can make clubs, radio shows, video games, march sanctioned marches down the street. And its being going on forever. It seems that people are carring about now due to Trump. But its not new, and it's very difficult to find stats on how many there are now compared to decade(s) ago.
The people who join this shit are the same who join suicide cults and biker gangs and insane clown possee. Broken people who need a group as a crutch.
Click to expand...

Totally agree, these arguments always come down to this, proximate vs ultimate causes. Nazi's are a fever of a greater infection. Yes, treat the fever, since fevers can kill, but we also need to treat the underlying disease. If not, we simply continue to get more nazis.

Nazism is not biological, genetic, heritable, or likewise anything other than an infectious idea whose traits make it easily exploited by people looking for a group. Continue to punch nazi's, sure. If we continue, however, to ignore the social infection that allows nazis to be created, that is the requisite silence that allows movements to foster and disease to spread.
 
T

The_Dama

Member
I see these ultra religious guys on the street screaming that everything is a sin and that every other religion is bad. I don't see those guys get punched.
 
L

Lois_Lane

Member
The_Dama said:
I see these ultra religious guys on the street screaming that everything is a sin and that every other religion is bad. I don't see those guys get punched.
Click to expand...

Are they encouraging the extermination of my family, me, and everyone who looks like me? Then yes, you have my blessing to go punch them.
 
J

jiiikoo

Banned
lowhighkang_LHK said:
Are we sure this guy wasn't suffering from some kind of mental disorder?
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Ah yes, once again I went thru the post history (this time all the way back to march of 2017) and same as the last one, you have not said one thing in a thread about a PoC being on the receiving end of violence. Not a single thing. Hmm. This is becoming a trend.
 
G

Gordon Shumway

Banned
The_Dama said:
I see these ultra religious guys on the street screaming that everything is a sin and that every other religion is bad. I don't see those guys get punched.
Click to expand...

And what point are you trying to make here? You already said the punch was unnecessary. You comparing religious folks to a Nazi? 😕
 
D

Dog Problems

Banned
The_Dama said:
I see these ultra religious guys on the street screaming that everything is a sin and that every other religion is bad. I don't see those guys get punched.
Click to expand...

Those religious people don't typically promote the total extermination of an entire people based solely on something like skin color.
 
D

Derwind

Member
The_Dama said:
I see these ultra religious guys on the street screaming that everything is a sin and that every other religion is bad. I don't see those guys get punched.
Click to expand...

Do they spew genocidal rhetoric, call for the persecution of minorities & other undiserables, do they promote an ideology that in pretty recent history exterminated several million people, most notably those of the jewish communities? Spouting anti-semetic, racist, homophobic, transphobic rhetoric?

Because if they did, I'm sure they'd be punched too.
 
J

jay

Member
The_Dama said:
I see these ultra religious guys on the street screaming that everything is a sin and that every other religion is bad. I don't see those guys get punched.
Click to expand...

Are these religious nuts stating they are members of specific groups who have already successfully murdered millions of people due to eugenics? If so, punch them.
 
N

NoName999

Member
You know what else is funny?.

People get cold cocked for simple shit talking.
People get punched due to miscommunication
People get smacked for being insulting.

No one bats an eye in those situations. At least to get the degree of "the punchee could be seen as more sympathetic."

But punching a person who supports racial genocide IS THE BLOODY LINE WE SHOULDN'T CROSS?
 
F

FinaruDensetsu

Member
The_Dama said:
I see these ultra religious guys on the street screaming that everything is a sin and that every other religion is bad. I don't see those guys get punched.
Click to expand...

They're not worshipping a fucking group that gassed and commited countless atrocities to a group of people. Saying everything is a sin isn't calling for the extermination of people from other religions. Hitler and the Nazis didn't just stand there calling jews "bad".

Goddamn! Can you people at least use your damn brain for just half a second before you post some stupid shit?
 
U

UserNotFound

Member
The_Dama said:
I see these ultra religious guys on the street screaming that everything is a sin and that every other religion is bad. I don't see those guys get punched.
Click to expand...

What point are you trying to make here?

Use your words carefully now. Don't wanna be seen as a Nazi sympathizer, do you?
 
C

CookTrain

Member
NoName999 said:
You know what else is funny?.

People get cold cocked for simple shit talking.
People get punched due to miscommunication
People get smacked for being insulting.

No one bats an eye in those situations. At least to get the degree of "the punchee could be seen as more sympathetic."

But punching a person who supports racial genocide IS THE BLOODY LINE WE SHOULDN'T CROSS?
Click to expand...

Sad thing is, those are examples where all the rising above violence rhetoric is applicable. As you say, in this clear cut case, suddenly some take pause... or worse.
 
V

Vermillion

Banned
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
Defending Nazism in any form is a defense of the Holocaust.

Defending a punch to a Nazi means you're defending punching Nazis, who did the Holocaust.
Click to expand...

It does not. Nazis now are aligning themselves with Nazis from the past, but the modern day Nazis do not have as much power - nor did they have a hand in the Holocaust in any shape or form.

Saying you should not punch a Nazi is not tantamount to defending the Holocaust. Because the Nazis involved in the Holocaust should have been (and were) shot, and/or tried for crimes against humanity. Modern day Nazis only get close to deserving the latter.

Punching is something that feels good. If the threat were actually comparable to the Nazis of the past, we'd be having a completely different conversation about what is acceptable.

Your comparison skates past this.

NoName999 said:
You know what else is funny?.

People get cold cocked for simple shit talking.
People get punched due to miscommunication
People get smacked for being insulting.

No one bats an eye in those situations. At least to get the degree of "the punchee could be seen as more sympathetic."

But punching a person who supports racial genocide IS THE BLOODY LINE WE SHOULDN'T CROSS?
Click to expand...

I don't mind one jackass getting hit for being a jackass. But recently, people have been glorifying it as *the* solution to a wide-scale, complex problem. And that just makes it so much easier for them and their alt-right fanboys to be martyrs and recruit - a fact we acknowledge in every thread about some poisonous ideology... except this one.
 
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