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[BRocknRolla]

Ars Technica recently reported on Albert Penello's statements that, "The performance delta between the two platforms (XB1 and PS4) is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe," and his following NeoGAF postings in regard to some of these numbers.

Most of the article is a recap of what many of us read and experienced, but the relevant new information here is the "sniff test" analysis from Ars Technica's Peter Bright on Penello's statements:

Penello: "18 CUs [compute units] vs. 12 CUs =/= 50% more performance. Multi-core processors have inherent inefficiency with more CUs, so it's simply incorrect to say 50% more GPU."

Ars: "The entire point of GPU workloads is that they scale basically perfectly, so 50% more cores is in fact 50% faster."

Penello: "Adding to that, each of our CUs is running 6% faster. It's not simply a 6% clock speed increase overall."

Ars: "What the hell does that even mean?"

Penello: "We have more memory bandwidth. 176gb/sec is peak on paper for GDDR5. Our peak on paper is 272gb/sec. (68gb/sec DDR3 + 204gb/sec on ESRAM). ESRAM can do read/write cycles simultaneously so I see this number mis-quoted."

Ars: "Just adding up bandwidth numbers is idiotic and meaningless. While the Xbox One's ESRAM is a little faster, we don't know how it's used, and the PS4's GDDR5 is obviously a lot bigger."

Penello: "We have at least 10% more CPU. Not only a faster processor, but a better audio chip also offloading CPU cycles."

Ars: "Maybe true."

Penello: "We understand GPGPU [general processing on GPU] and its importance very well. Microsoft invented Direct Compute, and have been using GPGPU in a shipping product since 2010—it's called Kinect."

Ars: "Who cares about the API? It really doesn't make much difference."

Penello: "Speaking of GPGPU—we have 3X the coherent bandwidth for GPGPU at 30gb/sec which significantly improves our ability for the CPU to efficiently read data generated by the GPU."

Ars: "I don't know if that's even true."

Thought it would be good to hear an opinion from an outside voice. Take if for what you will.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/09/microsoft-exec-defends-xbox-one-from-accusations-its-underpowered/

Obviously, strike it down if I missed someone else posting the thread.

 

[TheSoviet]

I'm looking forward to hearing his updated answers to our questions from the "technical fellows".

He has got some 'splaining to do.

 

[shinobi602]

Did they take the secret sauce into account?

 

[alr1ght]

Gaf's tech experts said the same thing when he was posting.

 

[SuperSonic1305]

Full of shit as expected

 

[DBT85]

The numbers don't matter for the first time in three generations, but listen to what we say anyway.

Glad to see a site pick up the comments. Not sure who else could do so with any reliability. DF COULD but it would depend who wrote it these days.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Ain't that a kick in the Ars.

 

[Duxxy3]

Ars technica severely underestimates Microsoft software engineers.

 

[QaaQer]

And remember, Peter Bright is as big an MS fanboy as a tech journo can be and still call himself a tech journo.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

So basically, Ars is saying MS is full of shit. When isn't that obvious?

 

[Dead Prince]

I'll just wait for Kotaku to give us their opinion on this.

 

[Crawl]

What happened to specs don't matter & being in an enviable position? I find the fact that they are talking about it so much shows they are very insecure/unsure about their product.

 

[Zombie James]

Ars: "What the hell does that even mean?"

Sums up a lot of what MS PR's been saying about the Xbone.

 

[Xater]

Oh my, I guess I should bring the popcorn for this one.

 

[bluehat9]

Are Ars technical fellas, though?

 

[Proelite]

Would be ironic if Albert, (who I love), went to the distinguished engineer, and the engineer said the same thing as Ars Technica.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Sums up a lot of what MS PR says.

When you're confusing a full-on tech site, you know you got some BS flowing through you.

 

[dragonflys545]

I'm ready for this. Popcorns ready.

 

[scsa]

Makes a bit of sense. I guess we all have to reserve judgement till the games come out.

There is obviously a power gap otherwise PR wouldn't be in a hyper mode trying to one up the competitor based on power. Sony was talking on a similar level with the PS3 and how ahead they were. Hell, the company called the 360 an Xbox 1.5 . We all know how that turned out.

It seems the advantage that the PS4 seems to hold on paper , will shine through in the 2nd year as has been traditionally when it comes to these debates.

 

[spookyfish]

"Specs don't matter ... SPIN is what matters."

 

[Begaria]

I'll just wait for Kotaku to give us their opinion on this.

I bet those press sneak fucks managed to figure out what the secret sauce is through a leaked email discussing how great DirectX is.

I think I managed to hit every meme this entire discussion has brought up.

 

[funkystudent]

I just think its really dumb we have higher ups at Microsoft getting directly involved in something as petty as a console spec wars thread on a forum.


Its nice to have some MS people on GAF but come on guys. What are you doing getting involved with that kind of thing?

 

[michaelius]

When first next gen DF analysis is posted GAF will be down for several days

 

[Prince Vultan]

I don't know... you really think Microsoft would do that? Just go on the internet and try to mislead people with numbers?

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

I just think its really dumb we have higher ups at Microsoft getting directly involved in something as petty as forum spec wars.

Kinda sounds like they don't trust anyone under them to say anything about the One.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Glad to have you on board, Penello, you're doing great work silencing the doubters!

*laughs*


(please don't ban me, mods. I mean no harm!)

 

[Neuromancer]

Ars Technica writer doesn't know what 'navel gazing' means.

 

[Proelite]

When first next gen DF analysis is posted GAF will be down for several days

Only if the Xbox One version is nearly on par or even better.

I just think its really dumb we have higher ups at Microsoft getting directly involved in something as petty as a console spec wars thread on a forum.

Personally, I think it's cool to have execs show their fanboy sides.

It would be awesome if Cerny and Yoshida joined the fray.

 

[ekim]

I'm on mobile so I can't give a link but ERP on B3D (Mod and former first party Sony dev) said that you have have a performance decrease per CU the more you have. And the rest is basically "we don't know better".
Meh article

 

[dragonflys545]

"Specs don't matter ... SPIN is what matters."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGNiXGX2nLU

 

[Skeff]

So an exact re-iteration of what many of us stated and asked Albert Penello to explain. Interesting.

 

[Garrett 2U]

Kinda sounds like he ripped his responses right off GAF

Incredible rebutal!

seriously haha

 

[jet1911]

Incredible rebutal!

Ars: "What the hell does that even mean?"

Ars: "Maybe true."

Ars: "Who cares about the API? It really doesn't make much difference."

Ars: "I don't know if that's even true."

 

[evolution]

I don't know... you really think Microsoft would do that? Just go on the internet and try to mislead people with numbers?

Not on purpose. Albert just doesn't have the technical knowledge. Should've never entered the conversation.

 

[Neuromancer]

I'm looking forward to Penello and his Technical Fellow coming back to answer more questions, hopefully soon.

 

[Canis lupus]

20+ page thread incoming!!

We had one when people called Penello out on his bullshit, it starts from this page: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=673713&page=5

but degrades to offtopic talk in the end and gets closed.

 

[JaggedSac]

Would be ironic if Albert, (who I love), went to the distinguished engineer, and the engineer said the same thing as Ars Technica.

Supposedly Albert ran that by the technical fellow before posting.

I'm on mobile so I can't give a link but ERP on B3D (Mod and former first party Sony dev) said that you have have a performance decrease per CU the more you have. And the rest is basically "we don't know better".
Meh article

Was this recently?

 

[Chobel]

Penello: "Adding to that, each of our CUs is running 6% faster. It's not simply a 6% clock speed increase overall."

Ars: "What the hell does that even mean?"

I'm waiting for Albert now, maybe he will explain what he meant by that.

 

[scandisk_]

what the?.?

 

[Various Artists]

Looking forward to a reply. Buckling in.

 

[USC-fan]

Should have called out esram read and write nonsense too.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

20+ page thread incoming!!

It'll be locked up long before then if previous threads are any indication.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Ars should make an article about this thread, now.

 

[Elios83]

Basically what many of us already said to Albert the other day
Now he's being called out by an important source.....they're doing themselves no favour going down this path of spinning the impossible.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

This is what companies do when they are scared. They try to confuse consumers and outright lie.

 

[cchum]

hmmmm.....*thinks about inflammatory statement....sees Samuel L Jackson looking at me.....slowly backs away from thread.

Spoiler

good on Ars for at least questioning it

 

[QaaQer]

Are Ars technical fellas, though?

For a non compsci guy, Bright has good knowledge and he has a lot of tech sources.

 

[Dead Prince]

It'll be locked up long before then if previous threads are any indication.

only if amir0x doesn't post.

 

[soul creator]

new theory: Albert got trolled by his coworker

Penello: "Ok dude, are you SURE this stuff is accurate? Those cats on GAF are pretty rough"

Fellow: "Dude, it's totally accurate, go for it" trollface.jpg

 

[TheJollyCorner]

shhhh, no specs
only dreams now.