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Attention Original Xbox owners - Remove the Time Capacitor before it's too late!

Link83

Member
How difficult would it be to replace this with a battery? Is it even possible?
Its not worth adding a battery - even if you added a CR2032 it would last less than 60 days.

This post explains why:-
http://www.xenatera.com/bunnie/proj/anatak/rtc.html

I'll quote it below for posterity:-
any plans on swapping out the capacitor for a battery? said:
Well, that's a good point.

Inspection of the board reveals a 32.768 kHz crystal at location
6F. This is the crystal used to keep time in the system: 2^15 = 32768,
which is a nice easy number to divide down to get a precisely 1 second
pulse with a 15-bit counter.

This crystal is hooked up to the MCPX. This, perhaps, answers one
question: the backup voltage is 2.5V because the time keeper is in the
MCPX, which is a 0.13u part and it is possible that its transistors
can't deal with a 3V backup battery. Nonetheless, I disconnected the +
terminal of the capacitor and measured the leakage current with the
power off: this is 0.14mA. Note that if you totally disconnect the
capacitor and the power, the current goes way down, but I presume
that's because the clock shuts itself off.

Q=CV, so the capacitor holds 2.5 couloumbs of charge when fully
charged. At a discharge rate of 0.14 mC/s, the capacitor should last
about 5 hours to zero, although the clock probably stops working
around 1.3V, so this confirms xboxmagic's 2-3 hour number.

I discovered that why my clock sometimes only stays on for about 5
minutes is that it takes a minute or two for the capacitor to fully
charge. (There is some series resistor of low value that prevents a
*huge* current spike from rushing in if it's discharged). Because I
tend to errr...power on my box sporadically for short periods err...I
have "odd" gaming habits... ...the capacitor never gets fully charged
and thus it looks like it's not keeping time.

A 0.14 mA draw is enormous for a battery-backed clock; I looked up the
Ibatt for one RTC and it's like 300 nA...about a factor of 500
less. The MCPX probably draws so much current because it's done in a
.13u process, and the leakage current at those gate sizes is horrible.

So, battery backup? well, even if you used a CR2032 coin lithium
battery (220 mAh capacity) with a diode in series to drop the voltage
down to 2.5V, it would last probably less than 60 days :/ Plus, in
order to drop a battery in, you'd have to disconnect the capacitor
charging switch.


So in the end, the answer is: MSFT cut cost by not putting a long-life
real time clock part on the XBOX, and instead integrated it into the
MCPX; because of this, the current draw was high and they were forced
to use a supercap which charges while powered on, becuase if they
didn't by the time the box was shipped to the customer, the battery
would be mostly dead.

Eh. back to thesis.
 

Leynos

Member
Sounds about the same for the VMU for the Dreamcast: that thing would eat two CR2032s very quickly. I don't remember how long it would last, but it was laughably short, and would get very expensive if you wanted to keep them charged up.
 
I opened up mine today, a US 2001 and a PAL 2003 model. Both were working before, both were stupidly simple to open up, and both work fine now. The PAL version has been used a bit more and it did have some slight corrosion, but nothing that needed to be cleaned, just some fuzz to sweep off. I guess in a few more years it could have been messy.
 
So I opened mine up recently and saw that is a 1.6 model, the capacitor looks fine for now, but is there anything I can do for it just in case?
 
After seeing this thread bumped countless times, I took the time to open mine and check it out. It's fine, no leakage. But, like I posted 'way back when, my Xbox has never kept time when unplugged, not even for a few minutes. Maybe it's been dead since Day 1?
 

Shaneus

Member
Sounds about the same for the VMU for the Dreamcast: that thing would eat two CR2032s very quickly. I don't remember how long it would last, but it was laughably short, and would get very expensive if you wanted to keep them charged up.
Hah, I just got used to the beeping of the VMUs as the DC powered on. I guess everyone did!
 
My older sister gave me her Xbox earlier this year. I haven't played it in the last 2 months. The manufactured date on the console is 7/30/2004. Should I check the capacitor and get it removed if there's corrosion? I kinda want to keep my Xbox because I want to play Shenmue 2.
 
Every time I see this thread I imagine the second part of the title as something a character in a movie screams at the hero through a sealed door into an experimental time chamber.
 

kingwingin

Member
Just bought a used xbox yesterday and opened it up and everything seems fine. It's a 1.6 so hopefully it stays fine.

Does anyone know if it's possible to buy replacement analog sticks for the controller S? The controllers work flawless but need new rubber tops, im not really interested in just buying covers for them if I don't have to.
 
imag0389ydkvi.jpg

This looks bad. Which of these is the thing i need to remove?

EDIT:

Found and removed it. What's the best way to clean that gunk?
 

Link83

Member
This looks bad. Which of these is the thing i need to remove?

EDIT:

Found and removed it. What's the best way to clean that gunk?
Isopropyl alcohol on a cotton swab is the best way to clean PCBs. Afterwards you can use some compressed air to remove any cotton fibres.
 

NDPsycho

Member
Finally got around to doing this to both of mine. Neither looked like they were leaking from just looking at them, until I removed them. Both had a little gunk on the board right under them, nothing like some of the pictures here though. I wasn't sure what to remove at first, mine looked nothing like the op linked video, glad there were other reference pictures out there to help identify what needed to go.
 

SpotAnime

Member
Had a spare afternoon so I decided to give this a shot. I have two Xboxes. My first one was a pre-1.6 board and so I wiggled the capacitor off. No corrosion had started, which was surprising given the amount of use I gave this thing pre-360. But apparently if you leave them plugged in all the time, that's when they are prone to fail. I transported mine quite a bit and it's been unplugged for years, so maybe that's what saved me so far. Nonetheless, it's out.

My second Xbox I purchased as a spare a couple of years back, and when I opened it up I was surprised to find it a 1.6 board. So that capacitor is staying put, since 1.6 Xboxes need it to operate. I was pretty amazed at the difference between the two boards, and the 1.6 was clearly engineered to be a cost-saver. That original board is a mess of a layout.

Been wanting to do this for a while, I'm glad I got to it. For those of you procrastinating, opening the Xbox is probably the easiest thing you could do. Just a few screws to open the case, and the components are pretty modularized and easy to take out.

Now I wish my phat PS3 was as simple, I need to crack that open and reapply some heat paste...
 

-shadow-

Member
Just wondering, but how come that all versions of the system works perfectly without the capacitor but not 1.6?
 
2002-06 here, guess I'm screwed. Booted the console up out of irrational fear (I usually unbox all my old consoles once a year and fire them up for a weekend tbh or some consoles like DC when there's a party) and it works, lol. Played some NG(B), CvS 2, DoAU, DoA3, Otogi, Halo etc.

Will remove this cap next weekend. Hopefully no leaks -_-
 

SpotAnime

Member
Just wondering, but how come that all versions of the system works perfectly without the capacitor but not 1.6?

From what I found in googling whether I should pull it or not on a 1.6 board, there's some BIOS setting which requires it. So that's probably the reason. I saw folks who had modded their consoles disabling this option in the BIOS and got it to run that way. But the capacitor is clearly different between boards - not only is it located in a different spot on the MB, it's a different color (1.6 is gold, pre-1.6 are black). Apparently the capacitor used in 1.6 boards is of a higher standard, so although it will leak someday, that day is likely to be past our lifetimes.

I haven't booted up my Xbox in a decade! Now I'm afraid!

Just do it! It only takes about an hour. And once you have it open, reference this page to determine what board version you have. (Actually, I don't know if I can link to it but if you search "Xbox Versions_0 detection based on serial" it should come out on top of the results.

I also noticed I had the stuck drive problem on my backup Xbox, so while I had it cracked open I decided to get that sorted out. Turns out the rubber belt on these DVD-ROM drives goes bad after a while, so a replacement belt does the trick. Or what I did, which is likely a short-term fix, to remove the belt and wash with dishwashing soap. The console was very clean but that belt gets dried out and stuck in a position, and then it just doesn't operate as well anymore, causing it to slip.
 

Justinh

Member
Thanks to whoever bumped this. I got an original xbox in the last couple months and I had no idea. I guess I'll open it up and see if I can see anything.
 

Justinh

Member
I guess mine looks fine, so I'll dink around with it later (if I remember).

My xbox inside looks a little bit different than the one in the video too, so I'd have to stop being lazy and make sure I'm doing the right thing whenever I actually do desolder that cap.
 

Cheerilee

Member
I just realized I have the dreaded 1.6 console. Am i fucked?

No. Pre-1.6, the capacitor is weak but can be easily amputated by just yanking it out. 1.6 or later, the capacitor is higher quality and will last longer, but it's required for the Xbox to function so you can't get rid of it.

You can probably safely ignore it for now, but all of your capacitors are ticking time bombs, so you should look into a full set of replacements if you want your Xbox to live forever.
 

Crynox

Neo Member
Opened one of my Xboxs today, it's a 1.2.
As well as the clock capacitor leaking I found two more leaking and another just to the right of these starting to go as well

Any one know what these are for ?
I'm going to replace them.

IMG_20161221_184118_zpsqzwlrcyy.jpg
[/URL][/img]
 

TheChaos0

Member
Opened one of my Xboxs today, it's a 1.2.
As well as the clock capacitor leaking I found two more leaking and another just to the right of these starting to go as well

Any one know what these are for ?
I'm going to replace them.

IMG_20161221_184118_zpsqzwlrcyy.jpg
[/URL][/img]

Sadly no. But maybe someone else will know.
 

EmiPrime

Member
Opened one of my Xboxs today, it's a 1.2.
As well as the clock capacitor leaking I found two more leaking and another just to the right of these starting to go as well

Any one know what these are for ?
I'm going to replace them.

I had to replace those and a few others around the PSU/heatsink area in mine too. They're just standard large electrolyte capacitors with no special function.
 

synce

Member
Recently modded my v1.0 Xbox that I've had for 14 years and there was no leakage when I opened it up so just left it as-is. This probably doesn't affect every model
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Thanks for reviving this thread. Will be checking mine tonight.

Had no idea about this.
 
I finally got around to pulling out of my xbox last night. The capacitor looked fine which was surprising since it is a 1.0 xbox, but I removed it anyway.
 

Sesuadra

Unconfirmed Member
ah damn. one blew in my xbox. it's a crystal xbox limited edition from 2004 produced in february 2004. so it seems to be a 1.4 if circuit-board.de is right.

so, can anyone tell me if this is the capacitor I can remove :|?

it says c7g2/c7g3

EDIT:
I said "fuck it" and thought about breaking it off...after I found out it is kind of hard to find a replacement capacitor.

But then..why not desolder it as practice (I started soldering last wednesday) and so I desoldered it. some pictures:
look at that..disgusting. corrosion and stuff..
after cleaning with 99.9% isopropanol (that's right in english too, right?)
after cleaning with 99.9% isopropanol, then some vinegar to remove the corrosion, than some more isopropanol to remove the vinegar..

now I'll let it dry a few hours, put everything back together and hope for the best...and if I ever find a replacement, I can put it in easily :D

Edit2: it's working. I'll let KOTOR run a few hours, just to be sure.
 
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