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Bethesda (Elder Scrolls/Fallout) making a "bleeding-edge AAA freemium" game

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Have there ever been a successful triple a freemium game on console ? And don't say any game that has an entry price is freemium unless you're Goon!

Depends how you want to define AAA.

Warframe and Paladins are successful on consoles.

That one is for an online multiplayer game:

Considering the job description of this asks for experience with Unreal/Unity, I'd guess it's for their mobile game, which is also developed in Unity according to the other job descriptions (just like Fallout Shelter).

I wouldn't say that the freemium job listing is for a different project than their big RPG or the mobile project - especially since it also doesn't say it's for PC and consoles like the other listings do. I think it's extremely likely that this is for the new mobile game, which is being called AAA here due to an expanded budget and scope after Fallout Shelter (which was also freemium) made much more money than they expected.

That's for the mobile game, yes.

There was a golang one that was filled and a senior core tech programmer that sounded more like a console project: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1358926

An example:

Desired Skills

Shipped titles as a core tech engineer
A passion for gaming and working knowledge of AAA products
Experience with the C++ standard library (including the STL)
Experience with C++ 11/14/17
Experience with multithreaded programming
Experience with platforms or operating systems other than Windows
Experience with physically based rendering techniques
Experience with Vulkan or DX12

Experience with scripting languages, such as Lua or Python
Experience developing for online multiplayer environment
Experience in Max or Maya plugins
Experience with game editor plugins/modification

The mobile game is definitely also online though.
 

Nabbis

Member
Probably one of the few instances where saying "I hope it bombs" is valid. Id rather have no game than a freemium game. Im not into gaming for companies to design games with pavlonian methods in order to get more of my money.
 
Fallout 4 has the mechanics of a shitty freemium game anyways. No story to speak of, no role-playing, all you did was run around and shoot things and build your shitty settlements and defend them.

The only difference is I guess instead of paying $60 up front, you will pay $5 for ammo clips to shoot more things.
 
Already wasn't too happy about the videos on YouTube that mentioned Bethesda was looking for people to work on a multiplayer experience and it was unclear at that time if it was going to be MP only or if it also offered a SP. But now we have freemium as well.

Hopefully E3 brings some clarity. Really hope we aren't going to see the end of the things they do best. Which are games like Fallout and TES. Despite the hate they get, they remain one of my favorite developers.
 

StereoVsn

Member
Fallout 4 has the mechanics of a shitty freemium game anyways. No story to speak of, no role-playing, all you did was run around and shoot things and build your shitty settlements and defend them.

The only difference is I guess instead of paying $60 up front, you will pay $5 for ammo clips to shoot more things.
That's a huge difference though. Fallout 4 didn't have any MTs, you could explore anywhere and initially st least Season Pass was not too expensive. Then you had mods, which were free.

Freemium would go against the whole concept of go anywhre/do anything in Bethesda games. I hope this is for mobile since otherwise I am not going to be playing a Bethesda game for a long time if ever and I do enjoy messing with things and exploring I their worlds even though they severely lack in story/questing and RPG aspects.
 
If this is their project Starfield, it will fail. I don't have good feelings about the fate of Bioware's Dylan either. The AAA-freemium space is already crowded with free to play MMO's most of which have struggled. Not to mention competition from Elite Dangerous and all of the money people already have tied up in Star Citizen. Demand for another big game in that space just isn't there, and Bethesda's Elder Scrolls / Fallout customers aren't going to show up for a free to play game that isn't what they want. Especially with a lot of us still feeling burned by ESO.

The general community pessimism around the games industry is disturbing and I'm not saying anything so wild as that AAA will crash, but I think that the transition to service games is going to come with some extremely expensive flops. Right now publishers are throwing hype-able ideas at the wall hoping that something will stick. I'm reasonably confident that outlandishly expensive pay-to-win space RPGs are not going to be it. If a Bioware helmed MMO with the Star Wars license struggled, your product doesn't stand a chance.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
If this is their project Starfield, it will fail. I don't have good feelings about the fate of Bioware's Dylan either. The AAA-freemium space is already crowded with free to play MMO's most of which have struggled. Not to mention competition from Elite Dangerous and all of the money people already have tied up in Star Citizen. Demand for another big game in that space just isn't there, and Bethesda's Elder Scrolls / Fallout customers aren't going to show up for a free to play game that isn't what they want. Especially with a lot of us still feeling burned by ESO.

The general community pessimism around the games industry is disturbing and I'm not saying anything so wild as that AAA will crash, but I think that the transition to service games is going to come with some extremely expensive flops. Right now publishers are throwing hype-able ideas at the wall hoping that something will stick. I'm reasonably confident that outlandishly expensive pay-to-win space RPGs are not going to be it. If a Bioware helmed MMO with the Star Wars license struggled, your product doesn't stand a chance.
You seem to be associating a few different things as one, but to help split them out a bit:

1.) Bethesda Games Studios is still, at most, ~200 people, and it would be surprising if they had more than half their staff on one project given they have three concurrent project. We would be looking at something more on the Quake Champions/Titanfall/Payday/Dota scale than the Destiny scale (which is 1100+ people).

2.) There's also a pretty extensive difference between traditional MMOs (a la WoW or SWTOR), Destiny-type-game (these play like Diablo or Borderlands), and Star Citizen/Elite Dangerous (which play like Tie Fighter or Freesoace). Those three categories aren't really competing for the same audience, and even when they are, they aren't substitutable games unless someone has just stopped liking the old type of game, like how someone who plays GTA might stop playing Gran Turismo, as they just liked driving in games instead of sim racing. That's kind of a different discussion though.

3.) By the same argumentation structure you're using, presumably Bethesda would be concerned about launching a singleplayer sci-fi WRPG because Mass Effect and Deus Ex tanked to the point their series got put on hold, tangentially related products like Prey, The Surge, and Star Ocean tanked, and Fallout 4 had notably worse legs than Skyrim. There's also CD Projekt's game coming up for competition (assuming that has a notable singleplayer component). By this type of grouping, it's both a crowded space, and an underperforming one. Of course, one might feel this type of grouping is invalid for raising the sales alarm bells, but I'd then propose the initial concern doesn't make much sense either.
 
You seem to be associating a few different things as one, but to help split them out a bit:

1.) Bethesda Games Studios is still, at lost, ~200 people, and it would be surprising if they had more than half their staff on one project given they hacks three concurrent project. We would be looking at something more on the Quake Champions/Titanfall/Payday/Dota scale than the Destiny scale (which is 1100+ people).

2.) There's also a pretty extensive difference between traditional MMOs (a la WoW or SWTOR), Destiny-type-game (these play like Diablo or Borderlands, and Star Citizen/Elite Dangerous (which play like Tie Fighter or Freesoace). Like those three categories aren't really competing for the same audience, and even when they are, they aren't substitutable games unless someone has just stopped liking the old type of game, like how someone who play GTA might stop playing Gran Turismo since they just liked driving in games instead of sim racing. That's kind of a different discussion though.

3.) By the same argumentation structure you're using, presumably Bethesda would be concerned about launching a singleplayer sci-fi WRPG because Mass Effect and Deus Ex tanked to the point their series got put on hold, tangentially related products like Prey, The Surge, and Star Ocean tanked, and Fallout 4 had notably worse legs than Skyrim. There's also CD Projekt's game coming up for competition (assuming that has a notable singleplayer component). By this type of grouping, it's both a crowded space, and an underperforming one. Of course, one might feel this type of grouping is invalid for raising the sales alarm bells, but I'd then propose the initial concern doesn't make much sense either.
Fair points across the board, thanks for your insight.
 

Duxxy3

Member
13489947905_783d23ab68_o.gif

https://www.youtuberepeater.com/watch?v=_asNhzXq72w

I hate freemium games.
 
Judged on what both Howard and Hines said about their two new IP this really doesn't sound like that. Both games bigger than they've ever done before, it would still very much be a Bethesda Game Studios game in how it will be massive scale open world, but likely in a different setting than they've done before.

That to me sounds like it will exactly be like a Fallout or TES but in a new setting which Starfield sure sounds like it will be. I can't come up with many freemium games that are like that and after the sales of Fallout 4 do they really need to? Ah well, we can only guess.
 

GHG

Member
I tried to play fallout 4 again the other day. Even with 100 mods installed it was still boring as shit to play even though I made it look pretty.

If this is more of the same formula but in a freemium model you can count me out.
 

deadlast

Member
I'm thinking this will be like a destiny type game. I have no evidence or proof. But looking at ESO, I think they want make an online shooter rpg.
 

Gothos

Member
AAA, free-to-play game from Bethesda? Hell yeah! Just hope it isn't MOBA/hero shooter - any other genre I'm okay with. Hopefuly they'll announce it on E3 :p
 

illamap

Member
At least i judge game based on it's quality, and not immediately judge game because of it's monetization method.
 

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
The good this is there are so many great AAA games out there, I would not even have the time to play any F2P/freemium stuff.
 
What exactly does "freemium" mean? Microtransanctions?

Got this from UnionVGF. A good explanation by poster Intellivision:

Freemium is a model where most of the game is free to play. But certain core content is locked out unless you pay up.

It would be something like Bethesda making a Fallout open world freemium game.

A gamer can play most of the game totally free, but if he wants First Aid kits, or a companion AI, you have to pay.... First Aid access = $3. AI helper = $2.

I am not too happy about this and much prefer Bethesda Game Studios games like Fallout 4. Tons of content for that 60 dollars and later on some expansions. But if not, I just hope these new IP are still BGS games through and through in terms of gameplay, atmosphere, game world etc.
 

kc44135

Member
Got this from UnionVGF. A good explanation by poster Intellivision:



I am not too happy about this and much prefer Bethesda Game Studios games like Fallout 4. Tons of content for that 60 dollars and later on some expansions. But if not, I just hope these new IP are still BGS games through and through in terms of gameplay, atmosphere, game world etc.

Ah, thx for the explanation. That does indeed sound kinda terrible. I hope this isn't Starfield. :(
 
There's no way this is Starfield.

The position is in the new Montreal studio, they work on Fallout Shelter and the side projects. The main studio in Rockville is in charge of the big stuff like Starfield and they want it to stay small, lean and dedicated.
 

GraveRobberX

Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Let's just hope Bethesda doesn't learn from World of Tanks and their "Premium" ammo bullshit lol

Can you imagine:

Buy laser cells for only 300 coins ($3), receive 50 Blue Super Cells with a gradient rating of +5 (max amount)
Each Cell consumed by the Laser-X1045 gains faster release charge and bonus chance of returning one back to the magazine (5-10%)
 

Drazgul

Member
Obviously not from Todd Howard's team, but the new Montreal studio. Starfield I'd wager is more like standard Bethesda fare.
 
Obviously not from Todd Howard's team, but the new Montreal studio. Starfield I'd wager is more like standard Bethesda fare.

I really really hope so. This studio really doesn't need to go into that direction. Not when you have Fallout 4 sales.

What exactly is a freemium game? F2P?

Yeah pretty much and I know very few games that are truly worth it and are F2P. If this DOES concern one of BGS's big games and it is a real BGS game in every other way it could be the first F2P game I'll really like. But that remains to be seen.
 

Drazgul

Member
I really really hope so. This studio really doesn't need to go into that direction. Not when you have Fallout 4 sales.

I think they do realize that, which is why they formed the second studio; to expand their catalogue and expand into new genres, mobile and methods of monetization using their existing IPs.

In fact, I'm only surprised that they didn't form that studio sooner.
 

Strings

Member
I think 'freemium' is the one word that can instantly ruin any announcement for me. Like...

Matsuno to write Ito-directed, freemium FFXVI.

TWEWY 2 is a freemium Switch title.

Sakaguchi and Silicon Studio collab on freemium PS4 project.

Freemium Front Mission 6 promises to cure AIDs.

^^ All beautiful things that I just can't get behind because of that one fucking word.
 
Bethesda is usually pretty smart, so their spin on Freemium would probably be closer to what Overwatch is doing rather then Farmville.

Will be interesting to see how they approach launching it.
 
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