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[Lime]

I'm most likely just repeating what so many have already said and maybe the thread is already at a different place now, but many of the people who fail to relate to why this particular local group may not want to have their safe and productive space (despite their friendly Facebook clarification and the other local alternatives to getting educated about white supremacy) are basically having the exact same reaction as the people who were complaining over "why no white dancers at the Beyonce's Superbowl performance".

Whiteness certainly wants to be the center of everything and be catered to at all times. And if there's just one instance where Whiteness isn't catered to or deliberately excluded, like in this case or Beyonce's dancers, you better make sure that the ones responsible will hear about it to hell and back.

This thread is a clear example of this, especially with people who usually don't give a fuck about BLM or dismantling White supremacy, yet somehow feel they in principle should be included and appealed to in all matters.

 

[dr3upmushroom]

Good. Then I take it you'll also agree with my follow up:


Not every space is meant for you.

While being told "no" is not something you may be used to, as a member of privilege who claims to respect what that presence may mean (men in women-centered spaces, whites in POC-centered spaces, straight/cis in LGBTQ spaces, etc) it would behoove you to pay attention to what you're being told by members of those disadvantaged groups. Nobody's saying that you can't participate in the larger fight. That assistance should and will be welcomed. But there's a history here that you can't gloss over no matter how much you complain.

True story: I had a bunch of children's clothing that I wanted to give to a local women's shelter, a few years back. I loaded them up, headed down to the Vancouver East Side and strolled in like a fucking dummy. Immediately 20-30 pairs of eyes swiveled in my direction staring daggers, some scared, many angry. I was kindly and firmly informed that it was a safe space for women and my presence was not welcome.

Did I complain that I wasn't being welcomed despite wanting to assist? Did I make it all about me instead of the safety of the marginalized group whose space it was? Did I rail against the inherent sexism of keeping men out of this building? Did I whine about my comfort and my feelings? Did I complain about their refusal to engage me based on my gender?

Nope.

I apologized for the blunder, thanked the staff member and asked if there was another place I could take the clothing to. Because helping them out was what important, not my own self-aggrandizement.

It's not about you. Suck it up, get educated, get over it. Trust me, it'll be okay.

Isn't a women's shelter a bit different than a library though?

A Women's shelter really isn't some sort of public space where anyone can come and go as they please. It might get some sort of gov't funding but I doubt it's on the same level as a public library.

 

[marrec]

Isn't a women's shelter a bit different than a library though?

Do we gotta be pedantic about everything or can we understand the concept of the story and how it relates to the Nashville BLM without it having to be a 1 to 1 comparison?

This reads like you've ignored everything else in the post in an attempt to find some reason to pick it apart.

 

[Stormhammer]

when you feel your grip a slippin'
from the people youve been whippin'
you grasp at their feet to catch 'em slippin'
you fear you dont fit in
you cry when you can't sit in
to hear their mission and their convictions
but were you ever really listenin

 

[Zoe]

I dunno if anyone else in the thread had posted it... but here are the things you can do at a Nashville library: http://www.library.nashville.org/services/ser_rooms_main.asp

You can rent conference rooms and meeting rooms... Which means they aren't shutting down libraries to have meetings and keeping people from reading books.

Lots of metropolitan libraries have nice big meeting rooms for the public to work in.

They still have restrictions on what can be done with those rooms:
http://www.library.nashville.org/services/Branch_Meeting_Room_Policy.pdf

7. All meetings held must be open to the general public and news media.

 

[Austriacus]

What about it makes you think it is fake? What about it do you disagree with?

Your idea would make complete sense if you were talking about only american blacks.

But when you talk about a country based on the african diaspora i cant help but laugh.

In the eyes of a peruvian-african your sufferings are meaningless and you probably might seem like an entitled brat.

The black catholics would be a majority and the black american protestants would feel opressed by a "wrong" religion

I could go on all day really. Black people are not a monolyth, racism towards black people isnt gona unite black people because they experience it in different ways and a lot of them have different ideas about life and past beef with each other

What are you gona do when black ecuatorians start fighting with black peruvians.

Would you be ok if the majority of the country is lead by a brazilian black majority? would others be ok with it?

 

[Fuzzery]

Good. Then I take it you'll also agree with my follow up:


Not every space is meant for you.

While being told "no" is not something you may be used to, as a member of privilege who claims to respect what that presence may mean (men in women-centered spaces, whites in POC-centered spaces, straight/cis in LGBTQ spaces, etc) it would behoove you to pay attention to what you're being told by members of those disadvantaged groups. Nobody's saying that you can't participate in the larger fight. That assistance should and will be welcomed. But there's a history here that you can't gloss over no matter how much you complain.

True story: I had a bunch of children's clothing that I wanted to give to a local women's shelter, a few years back. I loaded them up, headed down to the Vancouver East Side and strolled in like a fucking dummy. Immediately 20-30 pairs of eyes swiveled in my direction staring daggers, some scared, many angry. I was kindly and firmly informed that it was a safe space for women and my presence was not welcome.

Did I complain that I wasn't being welcomed despite wanting to assist? Did I make it all about me instead of the safety of the marginalized group whose space it was? Did I rail against the inherent sexism of keeping men out of this building? Did I whine about my comfort and my feelings? Did I complain about their refusal to engage me based on my gender?

Nope.

I apologized for the blunder, thanked the staff member and asked if there was another place I could take the clothing to. Because helping them out was what important, not my own self-aggrandizement.

It's not about you. Suck it up, get educated, get over it. Trust me, it'll be okay.

The problem then is, sure, I do agree that we should definitely respect peoples feelings and experiences, but what if someone wasn't comfortable around people of ___ race of people because they had a lot of bad experiences with them in the past?

You've had a lot of ____ people shoplift and even do armed robbery on your store in the past, so you ban them. That's obviously a no go, right? But aren't we ignoring the shopkeeper's experiences in that case?

 

[bishoptl]

I understand your point of view it's a perfectly valid view point, I don't agree with it but you won't find attempting to oppose safe spaces and I honestly don't feel opinion on them matters in grand scheme of things, I just find it irrational for them to in order example show such venous hatred to you

Slow your roll. The staff member who stopped me at the door was very cool about the whole situation, and was acting to protect the women inside the room. Do you know the type of women who end up at those kind of shelters? They've been abused - physically, mentally, sexually - by the men in their lives. They are at a severe financial disadvantage. They have children that they're responsible for - and who have often seen up close and personal the cycle of violence perpetuated against their mothers.

They are under no obligation to welcome a male who intrudes upon a space that is set up as safe for them. Period.

Those women didn't know me from Adam. They don't know who I am, what my politics are, that I was only trying to help, none of that shit matters. So I understand fully why they would feel that way, and still cringe like hell when I think about what I did. Well-meaning as my intentions were. So don't get it twisted.

I dislike the inherent nature of segregating yourselves and designating "others" to perpetuate group think we are ultimately all humans

That Kumbaya worldview only works when all groups present are of equal standing. Clearly, we are not.

The problem then is, sure, I do agree that we should definitely respect peoples feelings and experiences, but what if someone wasn't comfortable around people of ___ race of people because they had a lot of bad experiences with them in the past?

You've had a lot of ____ people shoplift your store in the past so you ban them. That's obviously a no go, right?

What equivalencies are you trying to draw here?

Isn't a women's shelter a bit different than a library though?

A Women's shelter really isn't some sort of public space where anyone can come and go as they please. It might get some sort of gov't funding but I doubt it's on the same level as a public library.

I'll cut you some slack and assume you're not being deliberately obtuse, because it's sunny outside and I'm in a good mood.

 

[braves01]

So they also held separate but equal meetings for everyone else at different times? As long as that's the case, I don't see a problem.

 

[UltimaPooh]

They still have restrictions on what can be done with those rooms:
http://www.library.nashville.org/services/Branch_Meeting_Room_Policy.pdf

Nice catch.

I would disagree with that rule though as well. Good thing I don't live in Nashville with stupid rules like that for a meeting space that I or my group is renting out, to let anyone in.

I wonder when that was amended.

http://www.kclibrary.org/space/meeting-rooms#policies

KC has a rule where you can't have them be consecutive as that would impede on public use... but are allowed to have a balance of four.

 

[Funyarinpa]

I think that's going to be up to white people in the end. We've gotta stop getting our feelings hurt about these issues so easily.

Despite being inclined to agree, I hadn't wanted to state it since there are people so sensitive in this thread (not to their own fault) that they can't bear to talk to other races in a certain manner, I didn't want to bring it up. Now that I think about it though, that's actually a good point as well. Being able to talk to (or in presence of) white people without extra pressure would contribute greatly to the solution of this issue.

 

[Principate]

Your idea would make complete sense if you were talking about only american blacks.

But when you talk about a country based on the african diaspora i cant help but laugh.

In the eyes of a peruvian-african your sufferings are meaningless and you probably might seem like an entitled brat.

The black catholics would be a majority and the black american protestants would feel opressed by a "wrong" religion

I could go on all day really. Black people are not a monolyth, racism towards black people isnt gona unite black people because they experience it in different ways and a lot of them have different ideas about life and past beef with each other

What are you gona do when black ecuatorians start fighting with black peruvians.

Would you be ok if the majority of the country is lead by a brazilian black majority? would others be ok with it?

Yeah this is true, you'll always come back to the fact people will still be people, and they always, always find ways the group and find an issue with another group. It's basically a universal truth at this point.

 

[Zoe]

Nice catch.

I would disagree with that rule though as well. Good thing I don't live in Nashville with stupid rules like that for a meeting space that I or my group is renting out, to let anyone in.

I wonder when that was amended.

It's pretty standard.

https://thelibrary.org/about/meetroom.cfm

Meetings must be open to the public, except that a public governmental body may hold a closed session pursuant to the provisions of RSMo 610.

 

[MIMIC]

I definitely don't think this chapter went about it the right way, especially since other chapters don't exclude certain races. But considering the intentions of BLM, I can kinda sorta see the merit in their argument. It's still wrong, but extreme circumstances warrant extreme considerations.

But it's also a little funny how long this thread is, considering all of the other injustices being committed in this country.

 

[bishoptl]

But it's also a little funny how long this thread is, considering all of the other injustices being committed in this country.

those hurt feelings tho