Rogue_Ledr
Banned
That is a lame reasoning. I shouldn't have to have my play experience hampered because the developer feels it isn't "hardcore" enough!
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Bloodborne: PVP Details, New Screenshots, HDD Size
- Thread starter tcrunch
- Start date
That is a lame reasoning. I shouldn't have to have my play experience hampered because the developer feels it isn't "hardcore" enough!
It doesn't have difficulty settings either.
It's not about being hardcore though. The idea that the souls games are "about difficulty" is an idea that I wish we could get past.
Emperor_Uriel
Member
It's not my opinion, it's actual fact. Three players makes the game easier than playing solo, the terribly designed Ancient Dragon fight doesn't make up for the fact that a full co-op party can stomp Anor Londo from start to finish, including O&S in 15 minutes or less.
If all boss and enemy stats scaled with summons, then we'd be getting somewhere. 3 players should be fighting NG+ level enemies by default.
DealWithIt
Member
The games are about the fleetingness of reality and shared experience. How so many of your interactions in life are with people who are essentially strangers that cross your path without being recognized. The gameplay mechanics reinforce the theme. It's not about being "hardcore" it's about making a game that is driven by design, theme and experience.
That said, the co-op for this sounds super easy and voice chat is supported with friends on an OS level for the PS4. Dark souls 2 had voice chat even for randoms, and it was a useless feature.
Enemies do actually scale with the number of phantoms in your world, just not to NG+ levels which doesn't make sense from a damage balance sense in the first place. Summoning is good because it allows the game to be more accessible to people who find it very challenging. If you want the game hard, there's plenty of ways to do that, including just fighting bosses alone. Why care how other people experience the content?
The Xtortionist
Member
Yeah.
-Invite friend to party chat
-Set up same password
-Host rings coop bell
-Client rings coop bell
-Have fun
If that's too complicated then idk mangs.
InfiniDragon
Member
Uh...I don't know if you mean Dark Souls but you're horribly misinformed if you think bosses don't scale with multiplayer in II. Because they do. As for enemies, they don't scale but again, this is by design so your original statement that the devs didn't want this, before you changed that statement anyway, is false.
And yes, some bosses are worse to fight with people than solo (Ancient Dragon, Fume Knight despite popular belief, Elana, Sinh, Alonne) unless you are a player that outright can't beat them solo. And co-op exists for those folks.
It sounds like you just don't like that the co-op heavy people play it differently from you. But this is getting off topic since we don't know how Bloodborne will compare to the previous games in this respect.
EDIT: Well, guess mobs do scale with summons also. Didn't know that, thanks for teaching me something new DealWithIt.
Start -> Join Player could be easier...
DealWithIt
Member
And easier isn't always better. Congrats you've come to an obvious conclusion!
The mechanics work they way they do for balance reasons, for plot reasons and for thematic reasons discussed above. It doesn't appeal to everybody, and that's fine, but I definitely think it's the best the way it is.
I would like some dedicated PvP systems that worked better than DS1/2's have. DS2 Duels are okay, but I'd like to see 2v2s
The Xtortionist
Member
Ringing the bell is effectively saying "join player". Parties would need to be formed regardless and I would presume that passwords persist after quitting and resuming. Like the above poster said, the game is approaching the process of initiating multiplayer in a flavorful and thematic way. It isn't for everyone, though it doesn't sound cumbersome at all.
The Souls games are really special in part because they are brave enough to have enough conviction to do things that go against the grain of what people take for granted elsewhere.
There are very few games that tie the actual mechanics and the game's story and world as tightly together as the Souls games have.
It really gets me feeling defensive when people want them to make the games more accessible in ways that would affect that. "Almost everything else works that way!" I think. "Can't I have just this one precious series that doesn't!?!"
There are very few games that tie the actual mechanics and the game's story and world as tightly together as the Souls games have.
It really gets me feeling defensive when people want them to make the games more accessible in ways that would affect that. "Almost everything else works that way!" I think. "Can't I have just this one precious series that doesn't!?!"
So many $399 bullets dodged there.
JudgmentJay
Member
Man, the game isn't even out yet and already people are complaining about the mechanics. I wonder how long after release day before the first "y cant bloodborne pause" thread.
That's how I feel as well. The sense of entitlement some people have amazes me.
That's how I feel as well. The sense of entitlement some people have amazes me.
Emperor_Uriel
Member
Boss health scales with summons, that's it. Not "all stats," like I said. Normal enemies do not scale with summons at all. I'm speaking more to Dark Souls 1 in general, as that's the team working on Bloodborne. Every DkS1 boss is infinitely easier with co-op.
This "the game is just too hard for some people" philosophy is terrible and needs to be stamped out, it's exactly what leads people to use co-op as a safety blanket. Anyone who plays patiently and takes the time to try different strategies on enemies can become a very proficient Souls player.
Because the game has a reputation for difficulty, a lot of people come into it looking for anything overpowered and unbalanced by default, and they become reliant on these strategies throughout the whole game. Then they complain when invaders outskill their entire party and leave them quitting to the dashboard in rage.
Other players take a beating early on, git gud, and become useful members of the community.
DoubleTake
Member
All I got to say is find that Bell Maiden or prepare yourself all you invasion hating co-op players. Swiggity swooty....
The difficulty is wildly overstated, optional bosses aside; the games are consistently challenging, but not Ninja Gaiden hard. If you don't rush, and you pay attention, odds are good you'll eventually beat the game. I've introduced Dark Souls to three of my friends who are "casual" gamers and all three managed to beat it with only mild help; one of them is about to enter NG+++ even.
JudgmentJay
Member
Wow I didn't know he was 83. Also holy crap 994 deaths.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Jeff is 53 years old
JudgmentJay
Member
Haha, I was going to say... he doesn't look 83...
Ghost Slayer
Member
finally decide to get Collector's Edition instead of standard edition. It's my first collector's edition so this game should be amazing
THanks for wrecking the joke!
LOL..he addresses himself as 83 or 93 on purpose with heavy sarcasm when people ask, "geez you look old for a gamer, how old are you?!?!?!?"Emperor_Uriel
Member
That's only half true. He summoned people to beat Dark Souls for him.
From Anor Londo onwards he just summons overpowered phantoms to do all the work for him. His O&S video is infamous because, on his first try against them, he summoned a mage to spam Soul Spear and beat them within a few minutes. I think he attacked the bosses like twice himself.
Ouch..how do people like that have hundreds of thousands of subs??!?!? Is he at least decent at other games?? he didnt seem witty in the video I watched.
People sub to see him goof and rage. Clowns get a lot more subs than anyone else.
KCroxtonJr
Member
And?
Just like in literally any game with co-op, the game becomes easier with more people. Yes, even ones with enemy stat scaling.
InfiniDragon
Member
I completely own up to the fact that when you said stats I was only thinking HP (even though it technically is a stat too). But there are bosses that are harder in DS1 with summons, too. Manus and 4K become massive damage sponges (especially 4K, and you want them to go down fast), and Gwyndolin gives you no advantages when you summon because he warps after a couple of hits (which your co-op buddy may or may not be there to take advantage of when he gets hit), and all of you are funneled into the same narrow hallway so you can't spread out and lure his shots or anything (actually it's worse because you don't know which person he's aiming for).
Or they could quit, or cheat, or worse, never buy the game at all due to the difficulty. And that doesn't only apply to noobie gamers and folks with low skill ceilings, I know a lot of folks who are skilled gamers and I fully believe could beat a Souls game who never tried them because "they don't like super hard games" thinking that Souls games are like Boshy or something. We want people to play the game because that means more potential games. And it's not like From is backing down on the difficulty for those players with lower skill ceilings to get sales by putting in difficulty settings or something, this is the same mechanic that's been in since Demon's. Saying this a third time, they feel co-op is fine or they wouldn't put it in. And as the devs, their thoughts are all that matter ultimately.
Ragequitters and play to win sorts aren't necessarily co-op only one look at Xbox LIVE can you that lol) but if someone is summoning help to get them through, chances are they aren't looking for PvP and will be salty if an invader kills them no matter what the reason. Even if the invader was a nub and got a lagstab or used one of the "overpowered and unbalanced" things you mentioned to spam out a win. All invaders aren't gods of the Souls games, they have varying degrees of ability just like everyone else playing the game.
"Useful"? To whom, exactly? You're advocating that people only use co-op as a crutch, so by that logic who are those that you define as a "useful player" useful to? How are they interacting with a community and becoming "useful" if they aren't using those skills in co-op themselves and get noobies through tough areas? Because someone who solos everything isn't useful to anyone but themselves in terms of an online community. Unless of course by "useful" you mean people that become PvPers or griefers, which only helps one section of the "community" you propose as so eloquently said by another posted in this thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=154953982&postcount=531
Lmao
I'm gonna play Bloodborne the way I played DkS2: I'm gonna summon everyone all the time and then I'm gonna spend dozens of hours helping other people through frustrating/hard/long areas. Cause it's a lot more fun that way.
Thankfully this time around I actually have a friend who's getting the game too so maybe I'll get to do some real coop, with mics and shit.
Fahrenheit
Banned
I'm gonna transfer the game data to an SD card and have the card implanted under my skin so the game will always be close to me.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
I hope this game doesn't get reviewed by people who hated the souls games for reasons like it's too hard and there are no explanations etc.
But who am I kidding.
But who am I kidding.
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
ok so I read all the pvp details and still don't understand it, is it 1v1 only and arena based or what?
Angry Fork
Member
Maybe a random question but does anyone know where I could find art like the kind displayed in Bloodborne? I mean the setting of the world, what the buildings, monsters etc. look like. Is there a particular name, time/era, country etc. that I could google to see images of similar looking settings?
Lé Blade Runner
Member
Jeff is the best. His Resident Evil HD "playthrough" is pure gold as well.
I think the source material you are looking for is HP Lovecraft.
Thanks. I'm gonna keep an eye out for a couple of days after release to try and see what people who feel like me think about the game.
MMaRsu
Banned
Jeff isnt 83 dont let him hear that lol
Most legitimate fans are.
It's Namco Bandai who couldn't get their dick back down about it. All the marketing was for DSII was "ARE YOU FUCKING READY FOR THE MOST HXXXDCORE GAME EVAA?!!!! I CAN'T HEARRRR YOUUUU!!!!"
Bloodborne's marketing has been mainly focused on world-building, the words 'challenge' and 'reward' and the new combat.
Huh? Did you see the reviews for the past three games? Reviewers like that series.
Backfoggen
Banned
My guess is 89-91.
That sounds about right. I haven't seen any negative impressions yet.
Audioboxer
Member
This wait is absolutely fucking brutal. I don't know what to do with myself.
Play with yourself.
The Xtortionist
Member
Hotline Miami 2
Waiting for this I introduced my roommate to Dark Souls 1 on PS3 for the first time. (The PS3 is in our living room)
He said that he heard that it was a hard game but nothing else, I just told him to take it slow and he'll be fine. He's used to only playing FIFA, really. I half expected him to snap the disc in anger 5 minutes in.
I went out with my girlfriend for a few hours, came back to him sitting on the couch in the dark with a blanket covering his head, clutching a controller. 'Holy shit dude, this game is so awesome'. He had just managed to reach firelink shrine, I was thoroughly impressed. He's playing it nearly every night now.
So there, another soul relentlessly stolen by that Miyazaki magic.
He said that he heard that it was a hard game but nothing else, I just told him to take it slow and he'll be fine. He's used to only playing FIFA, really. I half expected him to snap the disc in anger 5 minutes in.
I went out with my girlfriend for a few hours, came back to him sitting on the couch in the dark with a blanket covering his head, clutching a controller. 'Holy shit dude, this game is so awesome'. He had just managed to reach firelink shrine, I was thoroughly impressed. He's playing it nearly every night now.
So there, another soul relentlessly stolen by that Miyazaki magic.
EASTC0AST_GH05T
Member
wait until he sees BloodBorne, his mind will be blown.
For sure, I foresee another PS4 purchase and a co-op hunting buddy in my near future.
Valorant
Neo Member
Speaking at least for myself, I believe the games are, above all else, about the intimidating atmosphere (being alone against adversity) and sense of accomplishment (difficulty playing a significant part in this). And to ensure that the resulting enjoyment remains untarnished, I feel compelled to play solo. I have never wanted to play in coop and never will.
Because of that he have hundreds of thousands of subs.
I don't know the specific issue, but if I may say; there are mechanics that break the gameply design. For instance, if you have unlimited bullets in a game that isn't design around that feature, you can 'break' the game (gameplay design goes out the window) and the product experience will change dramatically -often for the worse.
You just can't do anything in every game. That's the overall law in design. I don't know if what you are mentioning falls underthat or not, I just thought it is good to throw that in there.
As for MP features for this particular game, I haven't been following up on it, but I would agree that streamlining a feature would be better. But again, I don't know the design of the game yet.