cinnamonandgravy
Member
k, so superior image quality on pc but with a few hiccups.
imagine that.
imagine that.
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Can Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart on PC match - and exceed - the PS5 experience?
- Thread starter RagnarokIV
- Start date
And hence my point. A piss in the wind is much better than no piss or pissing in your pants, similarly to how SSD is better than HDD, but it's a massively underwhelming compared to the hype around this game. You can play the game on HDD and you won't be missing much. As for 1:1, I never said it was and that was never the point.
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HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
The hype for the game was instant level changing. On PS5, it achieved that without compromise. On a HDD, that will not be anyone's experience (even when paired with a device that has 64GB of RAM).
There's no such thing as instant dear, on PS5 you still have to wait close to a second or just over that. I think people will be just fine waiting a couple more seconds, lol.
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squarealex
Member
Software decompression I/O =/= Hardware decompression I/O
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HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
"Dear", you won't have the same experience on a HDD. I get that we want to continue to be fairies in the clouds and swing battleaxes on a collapsing hill, but there is no way to spin it. The PS5 allowed them to release what they envisioned. The PS4 wouldn't have and no HDD has.
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SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Well yeah, Remnant 2 looks better.
Also, it’s a different market with way more competition.
Dude, you're just arguing with yourself at this point. I never said it was 1:1 experience, but if waiting couple more seconds means you can play it on HDD then people will be just fine. And my point is still proven, Insomniac said you can't run the game without SSD, but they clearly lied. As for what you're arguing about, I have no idea, lol. You're just trying to create your own stipulations and conditions so you can make excuses for the whole SSD debacle around this game. Sorry dude, take it to someone else, I have no interest.
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I was just being "funny" by changing his narrative from PS has this, to PC has this.
Direct Storage / RTX IO its not just Software Decompression. Part of it is, that's why on 1.2 we have what they call GPU Decompression, that only works on selected GPUs, thus the hardware part of it.
Forspoken is the 1.0 implementation, aka, only on CPU via software.
Ratchet and Clanky has the 1.2 implementation, aka, with GPU.
NVIDIA RTX IO GPU-Accelerated Storage Technology Debuts This Month In Portal: Prelude RTX and Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart
Accelerate texture load time in Portal: Prelude RTX by 5X, and reduce the free, remastered mod’s download size.
www.nvidia.com
It's why loading perfomance should changed based on your graphics card. RTX 2xxxx is worse than RTX 3xxxx and so on.
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HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Excuses?
You've argued that folks were misled by some "SSD overhype" and I'm saying there was none and explained why. You clearly couldn't disprove the '"why" and now suddenly "have no interest". So be it.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
RTX IO is hardware-accelerated decompression.
At this point you're just capping for this game. Insomniac said you can't run the game without SSD, something you're conveniently ignoring. That was the whole context of my point, but you're trying to create your own context in your head to make excuses for the game.Excuses?
You've argued that folks were misled by some "SSD overhype" and I'm saying there was none, particularly in the context of how the game performs on a HDD vs the PS5. You clearly couldn't disprove my point and now "have no interest". Cool!
Not only does the game run on HDD, it does so extremely well given the fact that the game was never designed for that tech. That's a lot better than not running at all as Insomniac claimed, lol. But here you're claiming a win because PS5 SSD can load the game a couple of seconds faster than ancient tech like HDD, haha.
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HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
I knew you'd respond...I'll make it easier → show me Insomniac's exact quote. Did they say the game wouldn't run at all without the PS5's SSD or that it wouldn't run as intended without the PS5's SSD? It runs "extremely well" on a HDD, right? Would it have run that way on the PS4 (a system without 64GB of RAM — yes, this is relevant). Then, we'll go from there.
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Topher
Gold Member
As
Mr Moose
has pointed out, Insomniac was comparing PS5 to previous generations. Now I still think they oversold it, but the whole thing of what Insomniac said is being blown out of proportion a bit, imo. To be clearer, they should have said what they were doing with R&C couldn't be achieved on PS4. But the media ran with that snippet of "not possible without PS5 SSD" and that's what everyone remembers as a result. I don't think Insomniac ever meant to say technology elsewhere will never be able to do this. But thankfully DirectStorage is a thing and Nixxes leaned on it to bring the game to PC.Hey, I saw how quick you were replying so I had to keep up
I'll make it easier → show me Insomniac's exact quote.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
I mean, with lost interest, why are you still replying?Hey, I saw how quick you were replying so I had to keep up
Otherwise, I'll await that quote, but agreeing to disagree also works for me.
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analog_future
Banned
Much better framerate of course. 4k/90+ FPS on high end cards.
I said I'm not interested, never said I won't reply to you, especially as you were trying have the last word that was clearly misrepresenting my argument.
Indeed, good day.
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HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
So, no quote! Coolbeans!
And, I think I got the jest, I simply don't agree. But, hey, if I'm wrong (how/why), then I'm wrong. With the dust settled, I can agree that marketing tends to magnify things. I just don't see anything extreme in this instance.
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Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Well I’m running ESO, Uncharted, Miles Morales, Gotham Knights, and FF7R at max settings so I think you assume wrong.
mansoor1980
Gold Member
Senua
Gold Member
Fredrik
Member
It’s different CPU, GPU, RAM, bios, mb, storage, operating system, drivers, engine, programming, optimization, etc etc.
Idk I think it might be too early to say it’s the decompression hardware. It’s on PC, a million things can affect performance. It’s the major weakness on the platform. Difficult to pinpoint what to do about it.
But I’m thinking that a deeper analysis should show a bottleneck somewhere if it has to do with hardware, a spike on a graph.
Or it could just be Nixxes coding tbh, I don’t know anything about multiplat programming but I don’t think they can take Insomniac’s code and compile for PC.
Or maybe it’s just Windows doing something stupid, or Direct X.
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Murdok
Member
that is, what everyone already knows, you don't need a magic ssd.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
That is my assumption as well. I wish there was a way to isolate the different steps of the i/o to see the varying levels of impact. For example, how much performance gains is attributable to the decompression block? How much, if any, is attributable to I/O to GPU interface between the cache scrubbers and coherency engines, etc.? For now, it looks like DirectStorage has some ways to go.
Lol, I never thanked you for introducing me to this apparently new, and downright annoying slang. Thank you!
I won't even bother to insert any of the countless videos demonstrating HDD runs and proving the exact opposite of what you're claiming. Instead, I will skip ahead to where I insert a meme that instructs you to just STFU...
Bojji
Member
,
Good for you but you would have much better experience (loading times!) on ssd.
I changed my HDD to SSD when I started to see many games stuttering on HDD, after changing the drive problem was gone and it was more than 6 years ago. Not go mention windows is fucking 10x faster.
Buy SSD ASAP, prices are super low right now.
Good for you but you would have much better experience (loading times!) on ssd.
I changed my HDD to SSD when I started to see many games stuttering on HDD, after changing the drive problem was gone and it was more than 6 years ago. Not go mention windows is fucking 10x faster.
Buy SSD ASAP, prices are super low right now.
Low Moral Fibre
Member
I tried it for a bit on Steam (not too long as I don't want to double dip for full price) and while the IQ is absolutely amazing on PC (very CG like with DLAA) it was already good enough on PS5. The frame rate is obviously potentially much better on PC too but the performance mode on PS5 is more than good enough.
It's a shame they didn't crank up the settings more. I know there are RT shadows and AO but they don't always look better imo.
As an aside I know games take ages to make these days but it's still amazing that this is pretty much the only game that leverages the SSD for anything other than loading save games quickly. Even then it's a complete gimmick IMO.
The portal bits everyone is arguing about are on rails (figuratively and later on literally) and the blizon crystal level is less impressive than that Titanfall time jump level. I was expecting to be able to spawn portals and be able to instantly jump between worlds in actual gameplay but the portal use in this game is scripted only when the devs want you to use it and was a complete disappointment for me.
People are saying it's not possible on PS4 and sure the 5400rpm videos show that in this exact form it wouldn't be a great experience when the on rails sections are involved but it's 100% possible keep 99.99% of the gameplay intact and make a few design tweaks to get it working fine on PS4 and the game wouldn't play any worse. The portals aren't baked into the core game as a mechanic but rather a nice looking if essentially useless set piece enhancer and the scripted and planned nature means you could get this working on any hardware no matter how old albeit at much lower fidelity (which to be fair was probably Insomniacs point that the fidelity didn't take a hit at all).
It's a fancy looking tech demo as it stands and nearly 3 years on we've seen nothing else impressive using the SSD.
It's a shame they didn't crank up the settings more. I know there are RT shadows and AO but they don't always look better imo.
As an aside I know games take ages to make these days but it's still amazing that this is pretty much the only game that leverages the SSD for anything other than loading save games quickly. Even then it's a complete gimmick IMO.
The portal bits everyone is arguing about are on rails (figuratively and later on literally) and the blizon crystal level is less impressive than that Titanfall time jump level. I was expecting to be able to spawn portals and be able to instantly jump between worlds in actual gameplay but the portal use in this game is scripted only when the devs want you to use it and was a complete disappointment for me.
People are saying it's not possible on PS4 and sure the 5400rpm videos show that in this exact form it wouldn't be a great experience when the on rails sections are involved but it's 100% possible keep 99.99% of the gameplay intact and make a few design tweaks to get it working fine on PS4 and the game wouldn't play any worse. The portals aren't baked into the core game as a mechanic but rather a nice looking if essentially useless set piece enhancer and the scripted and planned nature means you could get this working on any hardware no matter how old albeit at much lower fidelity (which to be fair was probably Insomniacs point that the fidelity didn't take a hit at all).
It's a fancy looking tech demo as it stands and nearly 3 years on we've seen nothing else impressive using the SSD.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Watched a video this morning of one of the guys I followed testing it. He ran it on an Samsung 970 M2 NVME, a 7200rpm HDD, and 5400rpm HDD. Also Steam Deck on Micro SD and Insternal M2.
All very playable, but Micro SD was the worst overall, followed by the HDDs. The big differentiator was after the first boss battle. Zipping around during gameplay was snappy regardless of what storage was used.
I’m not sure how many similar scenes there are in the game that are like the aftermath of the first boss battle, but I wouldn’t be scared off if I was using an HDD - although you really should have an SSD at this point. A few extra seconds of loading isn’t a big deal.
He was also running the game at around 165fps, which looked gorgeous.
Yeah, there’s no reason to not have at least one SSD in your rig.
Just downgrade the old HDDs to Microsoft Store duty or a dedicated GoG drive.
All very playable, but Micro SD was the worst overall, followed by the HDDs. The big differentiator was after the first boss battle. Zipping around during gameplay was snappy regardless of what storage was used.
I’m not sure how many similar scenes there are in the game that are like the aftermath of the first boss battle, but I wouldn’t be scared off if I was using an HDD - although you really should have an SSD at this point. A few extra seconds of loading isn’t a big deal.
He was also running the game at around 165fps, which looked gorgeous.
Yeah, there’s no reason to not have at least one SSD in your rig.
Just downgrade the old HDDs to Microsoft Store duty or a dedicated GoG drive.
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Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I have a 1 TB on the way. I just need this PC to last me another 2 years before a new build. I have no need of raytracing so I think it’ll be fine.
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Not as annoying or downright stupid as your opinions. This comes from the same guy who said Spiderman 2 is the most next gen game he's seen, lol. Oh wait, how about another dumb opinion from you saying TLOU Part 1 is next gen visually and one of the best looking next gen games out there, haha. The only who should STFU at this point is you.
I provided a video showing the game to run perfectly fine on HDD unlike you, lol. There are also countless videos showing the game running on HDDs as well, unlike the nonsense you claim.
Your opinion at this point is irrelevant to me (and frankly lot of other folks going by their reaction to dumb things you say) so go on and take that piss in the wind that you so much enjoy.
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Mr Moose
Member
Snake29
RSI Employee of the Year
Well "enough" is just a fucking excuse right now. It doesn't beat PS5 and that's the point.
Just enjoy the game and stfu. We've heard enough back then that the "Ow this is all bullshit, PC will outperform the SSD or PC will do this faster". Fast forward, 3 years laters....
PCMR nerds right now "Aah is ok on my HDD, it runs, who cares about seamless transition, it "runs" that is what only matters".
All excuses right now since you know you are wrong or just need to justify your overpriced PC that can't beat the game after all on the PS5.
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Dude, don't reply if you're completely missing the context. My comment was a reaction to Insomniac claiming the game wouldn't run on HDD. I never claimed it was gonna run 1:1 so the excuse you claim has nothing to do with me, lol. Fact is, game runs fine enough on HDD unlike the lies of Insomniac that it wouldn't do so. It's like saying such and such graphics card won't run a game and then the game runs just fine on that graphics card on medium or high settings.
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bender
What time is it?
Link to the lie, please.
Your must have been missing in 2020 cause this was all over internet, but here it is:
"Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart is a game that utilises dimensions and dimensional rifts, and that would not have been possible without the solid state drive of the PlayStation 5," explains Smith.
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart's Dimensional Rifts Only Possible With PS5's SSD | PlayStationTrophies.org
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart's gameplay reveal was stunning, wasn't it? Especially impressive was seeing the dynamic duo j...
www.playstationtrophies.org
They also doubled down on that rhetoric on social media and other quotes prior to release.
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Killer8
Member
It's not as bad as it was in the early 2000s but it does feel at times like PC porting quality is going back to those dark days. Back then we had PC versions with missing effects like reflections, shadows, post-processing and bugged textures. Games like Halo, True Crime: New York City and Enter The Matrix spring to mind. It's just baffling that some of these modern games have so many small details that have been fucked up in the transition.
Snake29
RSI Employee of the Year
Fine enough...? Without the help of Direct Storage or RTXIO it wouldn't even be able to run the portals. In fact. All these people with 64GB ram, 4090 etc aren't using their HDD at all. All assets are completely loaded on ram so the HDD is actually doing nothing.
PS5 = I/O Subsystem what helps the internal 5.5GB/s SSD with all these task without the help of the GPU or CPU
PC = Direct Storage api communicates with the HDD and GPU, were the GPU is doing all the compression work.
Cerny was very clear about this. They designed the PS5 so that the CPU and GPU didn't have to do these decompression task which takes game performance away.
Your must have been missing in 2020 cause this was all over internet, but here it is:
"Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart is a game that utilises dimensions and dimensional rifts, and that would not have been possible without the solid state drive of the PlayStation 5," explains Smith.
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart's Dimensional Rifts Only Possible With PS5's SSD | PlayStationTrophies.org
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart's gameplay reveal was stunning, wasn't it? Especially impressive was seeing the dynamic duo j...
They also doubled down on that rhetoric on social media and other quotes prior to release.
So you think R&C would've run on PS4 with compression on the CPU? This game would've been a complete nightmare on PS4 in the state of the PS5 version.
The words
says it all.
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bender
What time is it?
Your must have been missing in 2020 cause this was all over internet, but here it is:
"Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart is a game that utilises dimensions and dimensional rifts, and that would not have been possible without the solid state drive of the PlayStation 5," explains Smith.
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart's Dimensional Rifts Only Possible With PS5's SSD | PlayStationTrophies.org
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart's gameplay reveal was stunning, wasn't it? Especially impressive was seeing the dynamic duo j...
They also doubled down on that rhetoric on social media and other quotes.
Quotes from your article:
"Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart is a game that utilises dimensions and dimensional rifts, and that would not have been possible without the solid state drive of the PlayStation 5," explains Smith. "The SSD is screamingly fast, it allows us to build worlds and project players from one place to another at near-instantaneous speeds."
"It is an unbelievable gamechanger... we can now do gameplay where you're in one world and the next moment you're in another, and we're loading up levels that happen so quickly and in the action that you don't even imagine that this is something we couldn't do before because it feels so natural. Long gone are loading screens. Now it's all about bringing exciting new adventures."
So, where is the lie? Or are you just selectively taking the first part of the quote and ignoring the second?
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And yet Insomniac said the game wouldn't run without SSD, lol. PC games have always used Ram and Direct Storage was announced before Rift Apart came out. Make all the excuses you will, but what Insomniac claimed were just bunch of lies to sell you the game.
Need spectacles?
bender
What time is it?
Do you? Or should I say, "do your?" Or are you just selectively taking the first part of the quote and ignoring the second?
And where in the second part does he say he could have done those things without SSD?
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Snake29
RSI Employee of the Year
Announcement says dog shit without any game supporting it. It wasn't even launched when the Xbox Series X was ready. Wasn't this one of those "tools" issues. Even after announcement and almost 4 years. No game has even supported Direct Storage or all the other hype words MS was using back then.
Dude, your the only one here making excuses and even ignoring what Insomniac is saying.
Dude, don't be naive direct storage or similar tech on consoles was already something devs knew about and been playing around with. If you really believe devs didn't know about all this next gen tech then you're being irrational.
Where am I making excuses? I'm actually holding devs accountable for their lies unlike you who's making excuses for them and their lies for the sake of marketing.
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bender
What time is it?
What are you on about? You really need to learn how to read.
It's obvious to any reasonable person what Smith is talking about as he goes onto mention "near-instantaneous speeds" in the next part of the quote that you conveniently ignore. Mike Fitzgerald said similar things on the PlayStation blog about how the PS5 is enabling them to deliver their vision for the next Ratchet and Clank (yes, it is a bit of marketing fluff):
How PS5 helped make Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart possible - PS5 Games | PlayStation®
Explore Action/Platformer/Shooter game How PS5 helped make Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart possible for PS5 console from the official PlayStation website.Check out How PS5 helped make Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart possible features, news, videos, screen shots, and buy the game now from...
www.playstation.com
I get that PS fanboys would want to spin this as, "no other platform besides the PS5 could deliver this experience" as those people are fools, but that's not what Insomniac is driving at. Just ask yourself these questions :
What platform was the previous R&C game developed for? PS4
Could they have pushed the boundaries of PS4's graphical capabilities and delivered the same "near-instantaneous speeds" between game worlds on that platform? No
Could they have developed a game on previous PlayStation generations with seamless load times between levels? Yes. It would have just required more compromises.
Are the statements from Insomniac a bit of marketing fluff? Of course.
Are those statement lies? You'd have to look at them from a very uncharitable lens to believe so.
Are those statements likely to get twisted? 100% as we've seen from warriors championing the PS5 I/O complex as well as warriors defending the honor of the PC.
All this ghost chasing...
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64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
This whole ass paragraph for a person you already know is only gonna read one line. Come on man, just leave the computer and forget about it. you'll never win this.What are you on about? You really need to learn how to read.
It's obvious to any reasonable person what Smith is talking about as he goes onto mention "near-instantaneous speeds" in the next part of the quote that you conveniently ignore. Mike Fitzgerald said similar things on the PlayStation blog about how the PS5 is enabling them to deliver their vision for the next Ratchet and Clank (yes, it is a bit of marketing fluff):
How PS5 helped make Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart possible - PS5 Games | PlayStation®
Explore Action/Platformer/Shooter game How PS5 helped make Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart possible for PS5 console from the official PlayStation website.Check out How PS5 helped make Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart possible features, news, videos, screen shots, and buy the game now from...
I get that PS fanboys would want to spin this as, "no other platform besides the PS5 could deliver this experience" as those people are fools, but that's not what Insomniac is driving at. Just ask yourself these questions :
What platform was the previous R&C game developed for? PS4
Could they have pushed the boundaries of PS4's graphical capabilities and delivered the same "near-instantaneous speeds" between game worlds on that platform? No
Could they have developed a game on previous PlayStation generations with seamless load times between levels? Yes. It would have just required more compromises.
Are the statements from Insomniac a bit of marketing fluff? Of course.
Are those statement lies? You'd have to look at them from a very uncharitable lens to believe so.
Are those statements likely to get twisted? 100% as we've seen from warriors championing the PS5 I/O complex as well as warrior defending the honor of the PC.
All this ghost chasing...
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bender
What time is it?
It's not just for him. And it's hard to blame others when a lot of major media outlets are being disingenuous but at least those places are getting paid to do so. But hey, on the bright side, maybe 5400 RPM drive sales have spiked recently. Hooray?
You put a nice interpretation on those words, but at the face value he's saying the game would be impossible without SSD. Nowhere did he claim that the game could also be possible on old hardware at slower speeds to give credit to his words about blazing fast speeds. I can give you credit for trying to put context to his words, but the reality is he never put context to them and neither did Insomniac for months leading up to release even though they knew very well all the arguments about the topic that were taking place on social media.What are you on about? You really need to learn how to read.
It's obvious to any reasonable person what Smith is talking about as he goes onto mention "near-instantaneous speeds" in the next part of the quote that you conveniently ignore. Mike Fitzgerald said similar things on the PlayStation blog about how the PS5 is enabling them to deliver their vision for the next Ratchet and Clank (yes, it is a bit of marketing fluff):
How PS5 helped make Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart possible - PS5 Games | PlayStation®
Explore Action/Platformer/Shooter game How PS5 helped make Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart possible for PS5 console from the official PlayStation website.Check out How PS5 helped make Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart possible features, news, videos, screen shots, and buy the game now from...
I get that PS fanboys would want to spin this as, "no other platform besides the PS5 could deliver this experience" as those people are fools, but that's not what Insomniac is driving at. Just ask yourself these questions :
What platform was the previous R&C game developed for? PS4
Could they have pushed the boundaries of PS4's graphical capabilities and delivered the same "near-instantaneous speeds" between game worlds on that platform? No
Could they have developed a game on previous PlayStation generations with seamless load times between levels? Yes. It would have just required more compromises.
Are the statements from Insomniac a bit of marketing fluff? Of course.
Are those statement lies? You'd have to look at them from a very uncharitable lens to believe so.
Are those statements likely to get twisted? 100% as we've seen from warriors championing the PS5 I/O complex as well as warriors defending the honor of the PC.
All this ghost chasing...
So really people took those words at face value and the fact that Insomniac never claimed otherwise amidst the controversy just shows they were ok with this lie. Not surprising because Sony was lying and tricking people leading up to the launch of PS5.
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