• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Chelsea fans prevent black man boarding Paris metro train

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Bumhead

Banned
gutter_trash said:
there is something tribal, clansman and caveman aged when it comes to sports team fanaticism.

take a sane man who has a regular job but then shove him into a mob of his favorite sports team that he woships then all gets warped back to -9000 years of devolution
Click to expand...

Utterly stupid and generalising posts like this don't help.

It's possible to be a huge fan of the club you support, actively go to matches etc, without being "tribal", "caveman" or part of a "mob". Just an utterly ludicrous overuse of generalising terms.

Chelsea took a couple of thousand away fans to Paris last night. And your away travelling support is always your most passionate and core element, for any and all football clubs. And of those couple of thousand, we have one incident of trouble. It's a disgraceful incident that shouldn't be happing at all irrespective of club colours, location, numbers or anything else. But it's a minority of racist idiots. Racist idiots who are probably racist in their own time away from following Chelsea. Let's concentrate on catching out that bunch of racist idiots rather than making ridiculous and frankly incorrect judgements about football fans or football culture as a whole.
 
I

Izuna

Banned
leadbelly said:
Not according to a lot of people on here. John Terry is a racist. 10 years from now I suspect the same people will say the same thing.

Or, it doesn't. Either could be true. He got extremely angry and said it because he knew it would offend him. Unless responses in humans are completely robotic, I don't see how this is out of the realms of possibility.
Click to expand...

Your avatar makes a lot of sense now haha.

How then, would you ever be able to tell if someone is racist?

justjohn said:
You should try fixing the earlier one as well. i intentionally put 'fans' and not 'fan'
Click to expand...

"Football fans" is the generalisation that makes more sense to me. I never liked it because of how people in class were pretty much taught that supporting their team was all about taking the piss out of other teams. Racism coming out is just part of the trash that football fans get up to.
 
S

Slayven

Member
leadbelly said:
Not according to a lot of people on here. John Terry is a racist. 10 years from now I suspect the same people will say the same thing.

Or, it doesn't. Either could be true. He got extremely angry and said it because he knew it would offend him. Unless responses in humans are completely robotic, I don't see how this is out of the realms of possibility.
Click to expand...

wanting to say the most offense thing and being a racist are not mutually exclusive.
 
S

Stereogatari

Banned
Bumhead said:
It's possible to be a huge fan of the club you support, actively go to matches etc, without being "tribal", "caveman" or part of a "mob". Just an utterly ludicrous overuse of generalising terms.
Click to expand...

Also the tribal, caveman and mob aspects aren't exactly negatives if you pour those instincts into passionate support. There's nothing quite like the goosebump inducing noise of the atmosphere during a tight and important game for your team.

Slayven said:
wanting to say the most offense thing and being a racist are not mutually exclusive.
Click to expand...

What? Yes they are. It's easy for a non-racist person to say something stupid at the heat of the moment. It's easy for a person to do and say anything stupid in the heat of the moment.
 
P

Perfect Blue

Banned
gutter_trash said:
there is something tribal, clansman and caveman aged when it comes to sports team fanaticism.

take a sane man who has a regular job but then shove him into a mob of his favorite sports team that he woships then all gets warped back to -9000 years of devolution

that primal cave man instinct overtakes any modern common sense.

I fanned the Philadelphia Flyers for being a fan of Ron Hextall while growing up, but then saw Philly fans up close in person when I want to see an Eagles game; a father and son from Indiana wearing Colts hats and shirt wear jeered and cursed at whenever the father would express any happiness when the Colts scored... it was really vile that some Eagles fans had no self control on their cussing and yelling in the presence of a child towards him and his father... like WTF
Click to expand...
lmao is this satire? c'mon, man
 
B

Broder Salsa

Banned
caramac said:
Hmmm yeah, Chelsea fans.

Image is from several years ago.

Nazi-salute.jpg
Click to expand...

Is this really a road you as a Liverpool supporter want to go down? That will only end badly, and be rather dumb.
 
FootballFan

FootballFan

Member
spekkeh said:
I thought cunt was an affectionate name among footygaf?
Click to expand...

It is, but obviously depends on how it is used.

It can be used in many good ways, "Woah, that cunt's fast!" or "haha you're a funny cunt" etc.

Calling someone a "fucking cunt" is offensive for example.
 
S

Slayven

Member
Stereogatari said:
What? Yes they are. It's easy for a non-racist person to say something stupid at the heat of the moment. It's easy for a person to do and say anything stupid in the heat of the moment.
Click to expand...
Then they would get personal like question a person's mother's virtue, or point out a something personal that person might be insincere about. But to immediately insult someone's race? That shit been on their mind and makes them a racist.

And why point he is black? Everyone knows it, not like it was a dirty secret. Not very insulting unless you think black is something to be ashamed about.
 
L

leadbelly

Banned
izunadono said:
Your avatar makes a lot of sense now haha.

How then, would you ever be able to tell if someone is racist?
Click to expand...

I didn't just come to this conclusion without any other information. I read about the incident, it came out in court. They were both exchanging insults, and Anton Ferdinand made it personal. John Terry had an affair with a teammate's wife and Anton goaded him about it, calling him a 'cunt'. The truth is, John Terry was a cunt for having the affair with his teammate's wife, but I imagine it was quite a sensitive topic for him. It was in that context he called him a 'black cunt'.

His own black teammates defended John Terry in court. They went out of their way to defend him. That tells me that he at least doesn't act that way in normal circumstances.

It's not that I don't think people saying racist things doesn't make them a racist, it is simply that the context in which something is said, doesn't necessarily make it so in all instances.

It doesn't mean he isn't a racist, just that I don't think he is.
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
leadbelly said:
I didn't just come to this conclusion without any other information. I read about the incident, it came out in court. They were both exchanging insults, and Anton Ferdinand made it personal. John Terry had an affair with a teammate's wife and Anton goaded him about it, calling him a 'cunt'. The truth is, John Terry was a cunt for having the affair with his teammate's wife, but I imagine it was quite a sensitive topic for him. It was in that context he called him a 'black cunt'.

His own black teammates defended John Terry in court. They went out of their way to defend him. That tells me that he at least doesn't act that way in normal circumstances.

It's not that I don't think people saying racist things doesn't make them a racist, it is simply that the context in which something is said, doesn't necessarily make it so in all instances.

It doesn't mean he isn't a racist, just that I don't think he is.
Click to expand...

Well as far as I can remember, John Terry doesn't accept at all that he called him a black cunt as the first thing that came to his mind or the 100th. He says he was repeating what Ferdinand said, so according to Terry there was no insult forthcoming from him at all.

So I assume, you think Terry was lying about that bit and you're giving him the benefit of the doubt thereafter. Correct?
 
C

CSJ

Member
gutter_trash said:
there is something tribal, clansman and caveman aged when it comes to sports team fanaticism.

take a sane man who has a regular job but then shove him into a mob of his favorite sports team that he woships then all gets warped back to -9000 years of devolution

that primal cave man instinct overtakes any modern common sense.
Click to expand...

I've seen this behavior for most of my fully conscious life from an early age.
My parents ran a restaurant/bar when I was born, for the first 10 years I had close up experiences of what kind of neolithic people frequent these places, most notably anything football related.

We moved to another location for the next 6 years where my bedroom was directly above the bar.

When they quit those jobs we had a flat directly opposite a bar for another 5 years and now I live with one down the road. When I actually think about it there's no place you find here without a bar in sight.

So for pretty much 30 years of my life I've seen everything these degenerates can do and endless nights of screaming, chanting and brawls - it's obviously alcohol fueled but I'm sick of it. Yes, I'm British.
 
I

Izuna

Banned
leadbelly said:
I didn't just come to this conclusion without any other information. I read about the incident, it came out in court. They were both exchanging insults, and Anton Ferdinand made it personal. John Terry had an affair with a teammate's wife and Anton goaded him about it, calling him a 'cunt'. The truth is, John Terry was a cunt for having the affair with his teammate's wife, but I imagine it was quite a sensitive topic for him. It was in that context he called him a 'black cunt'.

His own black teammates defended John Terry in court. They went out of their way to defend him. That tells me that he at least doesn't act that way in normal circumstances.

It's not that I don't think people saying racist things doesn't make them a racist, it is simply that the context in which something is said, doesn't necessarily make it so in all instances.

It doesn't mean he isn't a racist, just that I don't think he is.
Click to expand...

I see, in which case it must be like the kid we were all friends with in Primary school. Sometimes it's just so easy to say something that is racist as a go-to insult. Either way you are right about someone saying something racist doesn't mean that they are. But to other people, it's really the main way they found out if someone is, and it is all the same.

The backlash should be the exact same regardless.
 
G

Gordon Shumway

Banned
Slayven said:
The most disturbing part was how well practiced that song sounded.
Click to expand...
Yeah..
JDSN said:
Are we sure this is racially motivated? Maybe they are just angry?
Click to expand...
Yeah..
Winterfang said:
Well I guess that's what happens when people cry racist about every little thing, now the word lost all meaning. People shouldn't be proud of be racist, SMH.
Click to expand...
What?
Winterfang said:
Exactly, this guys are actual racists and proud of it. The word racist has being thrown so casually that being call one doesn't even affect those nutjobs. Like we need a stronger word, for the severe cases or something.
Click to expand...
It's too damn early for this shit..wish I missed this thread all together.
 
S

ShemhazaiX

Member
Pelydr said:
They are "good ones". If they leave the team, though.....

So why are british people so racist?
Click to expand...

They aren't on the whole.

You'll find that a lot of us are assholes though, and we come in many flavours of asshole. Most of us are just ornery fuckwads, but you get some special ones every now and then that like to raise the bar, push the game forward. The Willy Wonkas of asshole flavour variety, if you will.

We mostly call them UKIP or football hooligans.
 
L

leadbelly

Banned
Vivalaraza said:
Well as far as I can remember, John Terry doesn't accept at all that he called him a black cunt as the first thing that came to his mind or the 100th. He says he was repeating what Ferdinand said, so according to Terry there was no insult forthcoming from him at all.

So I assume, you think Terry was lying about that bit and you're giving him the benefit of the doubt thereafter. Correct?
Click to expand...

Well, I don't know. He said the word, he claimed, sarcastically. From what came out, Anton Ferdinand was goading him about his private life. It seems to me he could very well have said it in response.
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
leadbelly said:
Well, I don't know. He said the word, he claimed, sarcastically. From what came out, Anton Ferdinand was goading him about his private life. It seems to me he could very well have said it in response.
Click to expand...

Well Terry is on the record as saying he was repeating what Ferdinand said and claiming he did not or would not use those words.

So your position seems to be unclear. Either you believe what Terry is saying or not. From what you've said it seems you don't believe Terry's version of events...but that he did insult Ferdinand in the heat of the moment...and you are then giving him the benefit of the doubt as to why those words came out.

Fair enough I guess - but it seems strange, and IMO it's wrong, to make excuses for a man who can't even fess up in the first place. One racist remark does not make you a racist for all of eternity but you need to shown some contrition and remorse at least.

To try and bring this back to the incident that occurred yesterday, I believe that within football people are afraid to take responsibility and face up to these issues. The response always seems to be "yeah but...". One reason for that is that people respond with hyperbole, as posts in this thread evidence. But at some stage players, clubs and the sport more widely has to understand that this is a big problem within football and it can't just be blamed on a small minority and racism in wider society.
 
J

JDSN

Banned
I wonder if the people doing this "Which team is more racist?" argument realize how they are coming off right now.
 
L

leadbelly

Banned
Vivalaraza said:
Well Terry is on the record as saying he was repeating what Ferdinand said and claiming he did not or would not use those words.

So your position seems to be unclear. Either you believe what Terry is saying or not. From what you've said it seems you don't believe Terry's version of events...but that he did insult Ferdinand in the heat of the moment...and you are then giving him the benefit of the doubt as to why those words came out.

Fair enough I guess - but it seems strange, and IMO it's wrong, to make excuses for a man who can't even fess up in the first place. One racist remark does not make you a racist for all of eternity but you need to shown some contrition and remorse at least.

To try and bring this back to the incident that occurred yesterday, I believe that within football people are afraid to take responsibility and face up to these issues. The response always seems to be "yeah but...". One reason for that is that people respond with hyperbole, as posts in this thread evidence. But at some stage players, clubs and the sport more widely has to understand that this is a big problem within football and it can't just be blamed on a small minority and racism in wider society.
Click to expand...

I am reading between the lines.

There were two stories presented in court. I believe the one that suggests he said it in response to Anton goading him. And I take a similar stance to Paul Ince on it.

The original post I responded to was that Chelsea fans probably believe John Terry's excuse. That's not necessarily true, they could just believe what I believe, and that is, he said it in the heat of the moment.
 
S

Stereogatari

Banned
JDSN said:
I wonder if the people doing this "Which team is more racist?" argument realize how they are coming off right now.
Click to expand...

Dissonance said:
It's not surprising since this thread was created just to shit on Chelsea and the fans here.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reasoned posts. It's disgusting how blind people can be when they let their football tribalism get in the way of rational thought.

I'm a Chelsea fan. I hate Spurs, Arsenal, West Ham, QPR, Liverpool, United and Barcelona in terms of football. But I wouldn't fucking jump on a hate bandwagon if any ill things happened with fans or these clubs and twist it to say "Yep, my hate is justified, see look at these typical *insert team name* cunts". It's so incredibly low and petty.

The people with these comments hate Chelsea because they are fucking dominating the league right now and have a manager that revels in that domination. Also because of Abramovich's money. They then twist that hate into incidents like these to say "Yep, typical Chelsea here, nothing surprising" and then further twist that into the historical hooliganism/far-right problems the fanbase had, or make inaccurate cheap knocks about how small the fanbase supposedly used to be before Abramovich.
 
R

ReplacementPelican

Member
leadbelly said:
Well, I don't know. He said the word, he claimed, sarcastically. From what came out, Anton Ferdinand was goading him about his private life. It seems to me he could very well have said it in response.
Click to expand...
Didn't someone refer to one of Terry's supporters as a 'choc ice'? What happened about that because, to me, that sounds pretty racist too.
 
D

DBT85

Member
Stereogatari said:
Indeed and Ferdinand didn't receive anywhere near the same shit storm nor did he have his captaincy his stripped.
Click to expand...

I'm sure if John Terry was black and had called Aston Ferdinand a black cunt, a little less might have blown up about it all.

People don't see black on black racial comments the same as white on black.
 
J

JDSN

Banned
DBT85 said:
I'm sure if John Terry was black and had called Aston Ferdinand a black cunt, a little less might have blown up about it all.

People don't see black on black racial comments the same as white on black.
Click to expand...
But what about black on black crime tho?
 
S

Stereogatari

Banned
DBT85 said:
I'm sure if John Terry was black and had called Aston Ferdinand a black cunt, a little less might have blown up about it all.

People don't see black on black racial comments the same as white on black.
Click to expand...

To be fair the term choc ice isn't just black on black, but also offensive to whites.
 
S

Stereogatari

Banned
Jburton said:
Check out @Debbs_Williams's Tweet: https://twitter.com/Debbs_Williams/status/568013601375698944?s=09

2nd most banning orders from racist chanting behind West Ham.
Click to expand...

I'd be interested to see the full list.

Interesting to see West Ham's fans with most banning orders for racist chants, even though aren't usually stereotyped as racist as much as Chelsea fans are.

Also presumably this tallys bans the clubs hand out? I don't think that's a good measure at all to draw any conclusions with how racist a clubs fanbase is. Clubs like Chelsea and West Ham with fanbases that have historical reputations with racism will be actively looking to clamp down on it more.
 
R

Rikkun

Member
FootballFan said:
It is, but obviously depends on how it is used.

It can be used in many good ways, "Woah, that cunt's fast!" or "haha you're a funny cunt" etc.

Calling someone a "fucking cunt" is offensive for example.
Click to expand...

Well, we're all cunts in FootyGAF so it's ok to call others cunt.
 
J

Jburton

Banned
Over here in Northern Ireland I remember being told of the three blues, Linfield, Rangers and Chelsea.

All had links to paramilitaries through some sections if supporters (Combat 18 had links and fund raised for UVF) and issues with bigotry (not in a total sense of course).


Unfortunately these Chelsea fans have damaged the club reputation and those of legitimate and decent fans, also the Premier League in general.


What a bunch of subhuman fuckwits.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

'Marvel's Spider-Man 2' video game director teases potential Venom spinoff: 'We're gonna listen to the fans'
Rumor 2
52
3K
Evil Calvin replied
Superman Vs Black Adam: "It's Absolutely The Plan" confirm Dwayne Johnson
2
59
3K
ManaByte replied
4A Games is working on the next Metro game and offers the development kit for Metro Exodus
4
844
Freeza93 replied
What can Ghost of Tsushima learn from Red Dead, The Witcher, and Spider-Man 2?
47
2K
Gojiira replied
Why you need a MiSTer FPGA in 2023; and who has one?
2 3
105
10K
StereoVsn replied
Top Bottom