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[Mkilbride]

"Interview of Tanimura. In a site:

http://www.gamekult.com/actu/zoom-dark-souls-ii-A108297.html

Follows the (♥♥♥&#9829translation:

The evolution graph is however obvious, and not just because the game runs on a good PC at 60 fps. Version as a basis, we are assured we, the adjustments on consoles - with a frame rate divided by two, is not changed a hardware aging. Officially, nothing is planned for the next generation consoles.


I: The demo presented during the event ran on PC. This means there is also a PC version developed in-house?

T: The version shown before the interview actually ran on PC. If the first Dark Souls was adapted from consoles to PC, this time, it's the opposite. The PC version serves as a base from which the warranty is adaptations consoles. Clearly, the game is being developed simultaneously on different machines directly internally.

I: You also mentioned a new graphics engine for Dark Souls II. Is it an engine taken from zero or an adaptation of the former?

T: Yes, we reprogrammed from A to Z. We have not included elements from the previous engine.

I: Does this mean that the game could also be created on the next generation consoles?

T: Regarding Dark Souls II , the engine was not created with the next-generation Focus. Development of the first Dark Souls was particularly long, the engine was obsolete. It is for this reason that we wanted to start from scratch with Dark Souls II, to be able to fully express what we wanted. I know that the next generation of consoles are recurring themes this year, but the potential of the Xbox 360 and PS3 has not yet been fully exploited. This is why our attention is focused on current machines. For the moment, we do not believe in a port of Dark Souls II or in any other capacity on future machines.

All that showed on a PC running at 60 frames per second, and it shows that now have worked from the beginning in the PC version, which is much more polished, with better textures and lighting effects care. In consoles have set a goal to reach 30fps, and prevent serious falls in the rate of images that had some of the areas of the first Dark Souls, which were almost unplayable.
"

Overall, very interesting.

 

[Stone Ocean]

The Souls series is really known for hamfisting you into situations where you need to use a 1 handed build!

Yeah, let's pretend the Souls games don't force you to use a shield unless you absolutely know what you're doing.

 

[soontroll]

I'm done with this thread.
I know there is enough people that are not genuine in this concern for the console versions.

They are just using it as a way to beg for an upgrade on PC. Or get confirmation that what was shown in the bullshots will in fact be in the PC release.

To all of you with this ulterior motive, shame on you.

No. We want a formal acknowledgement/apology and an explanation for the console versions. We also want the PC release to be as advertised. We can't expect that from consoles anymore since clearly the performance even without the lighting is terrible.

 

[DoctorZ]

I haven't been keeping up on this extremely close, mostly since I want to actually play the game and enjoy it without constantly thinking about the visuals. But I'm assuming that in no way were the original demos of DSII shown on PC? I'm assuming that all the uproar is that it was shown running on PS360 and then was gutted and not that people were tricked and not shown the console versions until late.

 

[Steel]

Yeah, let's pretend the Souls games don't force you to use a shield unless you absolutely know what you're doing.

I never used a shield during Dark Souls I. Ever. Did just fine. Actually do particularly well in pvp because of it.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Uh oh, we advertised a game mechanic that we playtested and found out to be not fun at all

Who cares, let's keep it in the game everywhere, because im the best game developer ever!

You're defending FROM from criticism by implying that everyone else is defending FROM from criticism. This is impressive.

 

[RK9039]

FROM playtested textures and indoor lighting and found them to be not fun

Source: My uncle who works at FROM.

Don't lie, you got that from IGN.

 

[atr0cious]

The Souls series is really known for hamfisting you into situations where you need to use a 1 handed build!

Never felt forced in the first one, and just ran around two handed no armor. I really don't see the point in armor if it slows you down in Dark Souls either.

 

[Jarate]

I think there is a nice middle ground they didn't have time to reach. I certainly didn't want tomb of the giants everywhere and I know most people on the beta didn't either. But the lighting just went completely the other way which makes me think the consoles just couldn't handle it because they could have always just toned it down a bit and kept the shadows.

And this is what most people tend to believe. Consoles aren't stronk enough.

I honestly would've loved the game if it featured the lighting it did in the preview, but they chose to make the torches "less useful" (I still found them to be very useful, but different strokes for different folks) probably because the game might've suffered if they had made the torches necessary.

If you guys are souls fans, you will most likely love Dark Souls 2,

 

[KingFire]

Guys don't worry. Even if the PC version ships without all those features, Durante can save us with his black magic. Right, Durante?....RIGHT?!

 

[Sullichin]

It's still there for one area, albeit without anywhere near the level of dynamic lighting shown in demos. The remnants of the mechanic are useless literally everywhere else, and yet were not removed.

Yelling about it's sort of there in one part still kinda isn't much of a defense.

I'm not arguing that the torches were at some point intended to be used more frequently, but it doesn't feel like an abandoned mechanic to me. Seems like a combination of feedback about the dark areas AND a compromise based on the lighting changes.

Spoiler

You light the torch to burn the windmill that removes the poison in the Medusa boss fight.
I straight up needed it to see at all in the Gutter. Honestly not sure how much I would have enjoyed many other areas like this.
I needed it to see the ground below the water in Amana's Shrine to know where I could walk
The bug enemies cower away from it in No Man's Wharf
You can use it to ignite the barrels that have gunpowder in it

 

[Jarate]

Yeah, let's pretend the Souls games don't force you to use a shield unless you absolutely know what you're doing.

I know a lot of people (including me) who went through Dark Souls 1 with a Zweihander build

You're defending FROM from criticism by implying that everyone else is defending FROM from criticism. This is impressive.

No, im saying that if a game mechanic is bad, even if it sounds super cool, i'd rather have the mechanic taken out.

 

[Stone Ocean]

If you guys are souls fans, you will most likely love Dark Souls 2,

Why do I have to repeat this over and over and over

I'm playing the game. Right now. I love it to death, game is fantastic. I still want answers.

 

[Steel]

Never felt forced in the first one, and just ran around two handed no armor. I really don't see the point in armor if it slows you down in Dark Souls either.

... Funny thing is I've been forced to play with almost no armor(3 pieces of the very beginning armor before you pick a class) to stay under 25% in Dark souls 2. So I actually have been running around 2 handed no armor with nothing but a falchion.

 

[skullwolfgp]

I haven't been keeping up on this extremely close, mostly since I want to actually play the game and enjoy it without constantly thinking about the visuals. But I'm assuming that in no way were the original demos of DSII shown on PC? I'm assuming that all the uproar is that it was shown running on PS360 and then was gutted and not that people were tricked and not shown the console versions until late.

The problem with this hypothesis is that the network test on PS3 featured more sophisticated lighting.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Uh oh, we advertised a game mechanic that we playtested and found out to be not fun at all

Who cares, let's keep it in the game everywhere, because im the best game developer ever!

I played the torch mechanic in the beta. It was a great one and made exploring areas in the dark and charting a path and establishing a route an exciting thrill akin to opening gates and kicking down ladders in Demon's and Dark. It was risk versus reward, and it was doubling down on all the sensations that make the series what it is. You could charge in and do a suicide sconce lighting run, or inch forward. Now you need to do neither and the game is looking to be worse for it, especially when a lot of the art design was based around being lit in certain ways/enemy spawns dependant on you not actually being able to see their clearly lit spawn point as they blip in.

So you can stow the passive aggressive spiel on my account.

 

[Sullichin]

Yeah, let's pretend the Souls games don't force you to use a shield unless you absolutely know what you're doing.

What are you talking about.

 

[Jarate]

Why do I have to repeat this over and over and over

I'm playing the game. Right now. I love it to death. I still want answers.

and you're not the one im referring too. Im referring to the ones claiming that the game is bad and that it's suddenly so much worse because of the lighting changes.

Im upset with the downgrades too, im just trying to cool down some of the hyperbole in this thread.

 

[atr0cious]

... Funny thing is I've been forced to play with almost no armor(3 pieces of the very beginning armor before you pick a class) to stay under 25% in Dark souls 2. So I actually have been running around 2 handed no armor with nothing but a falchion.

If you're not fred dursting every enemy encounter, you're not doing it right.

 

[double jump]

I thought people were joking but there do seem to be some ps2ish looking textures in a certain area.

 

[Jarate]

I played the torch mechanic in the beta. It was a great one and made exploring areas in the dark and charting a path and establishing a route an exciting thrill akin to opening gates and kicking down ladders in Demon's and Dark. It was risk versus reward, and it was doubling down on all the sensations that make the series what it is.

So you can stow the passive aggressive spiel on my account.

You might've liked it, but the playtesters and others might've not liked it, and this is also implying that the torches aren't useful, even though they really are.

 

[Pics_nao]

Holy shit those gifs in the OP. I didn't care much for the lighting since I had no clue what it looked like before but wow. What the hell From?

 

[atr0cious]

and you're not the one im referring too. Im referring to the ones claiming that the game is bad and that it's suddenly so much worse because of the lighting changes.

Im upset with the downgrades too, im just trying to cool down some of the hyperbole in this thread.

Please point to people calling it a bad game. No one has said that. We want answers for them lying about the final product, that's it. They can even say it sucked, and that would be enough. Instead, the game is on sale rated high, and they haven't said a word, and are selling it on that memory. And people like you keep coming in and twisting our words to suit your argument.

 

[DoctorZ]

The problem with this hypothesis is that the network test on PS3 featured more sophisticated lighting.

I played that and I can't really feel the difference, although I've yet to get to that area. I'll assume everyone has examined the footage pretty closely by now. I'm just surprised with all this talk about the visuals being gutted, hwo the hell can the performance be so shitty still. I remember the network test not performing that great either, but I don't really feel a difference with the retail product in terms of FPS. I just wish that since the lighting and other stuff was removed why couldn't they get a more stable framerate. I just don't see any excuse for a product to be like this anymore.

 

[Prince Vultan]

"Lied"? Really?

 

[XANDER CAGE]

"Lied"? Really?

It's meant to be a reference to the game's
"YOU DIED" game over screen, but I do agree it's maybe a tad aggressive.

 

[-MD-]

"Lied"? Really?

What would you call it? Mild deception?

Anyways yeah, it's a play on the YOU DIED thing as others said.

 

[Warewolf]

Yes, I would. Sure, it looks lit up, but visibility-wise there's hardly a difference. Maybe you could post some more shots to make a better case.

Come on man. Don't get carried away,

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

"Lied"? Really?

It's a joke based on "You died". Took me a while to get it too.

 

[Pie and Beans]

You might've liked it, but the playtesters and others might've not liked it, and this is also implying that the torches aren't useful, even though they really are.

If Dark Souls 2 was focus-tested to be made easier and more forgiving, its ironically exactly what everyone feared about its announcement.

And there are countless examples from players where the torch mechanic just isn't paying the dividends it was supposed to. The game has not been rebalanced around it either suffering from the lighting being cut out or cut because they wanted to make things easier.

Do you understand how preposterous the tutorial area is in teaching you how to light all important sconces in an area where you can already see everything around you clearly? Thats something that the game seems to think is something you'll need for the rest of it on the same level as learning to block. If they wanted to dramatically lessen that mechanic, they should have taken the unfortunate choice to delay the game and do it properly, not just take a carving knife to it and hope nobody noticed despite them bigging it up in every single interview.

We're also not sure its been cut FOR game design reasons and not simply because of the lighting engine hitting performance, and once again such a last minute change has taken a hit to the entire product like a house of cards.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

I thought people were joking but there do seem to be some ps2ish looking textures in a certain area.

I think you might be on to something. Do you know what From Software was working on before Dark Souls. PS2 GAMES!

 

[KarmaCow]

It's meant to be a reference to the game's
"YOU DIED" game over screen, but I do agree it's maybe a tad aggressive.

Yea I get the intent behind it but along with caps it makes seem unreasonably angry.

 

[soontroll]

You might've liked it, but the playtesters and others might've not liked it, and this is also implying that the torches aren't useful, even though they really are.

Didn't Tanimura or some other dev say that they won't be toning down the darkness/torch element despite complaints from beta testers? I remember reading it in an interview.

 

[Stone Ocean]

No, im saying that if a game mechanic is bad, even if it sounds super cool, i'd rather have the mechanic taken out.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather they tuned the mechanic according to feedback, not remove it from the game aside from being useful in specific areas.

 

[zma1013]

Yea I get the intent behind it but along with caps it makes seem unreasonably angry.

The caps are part of the reference too as in the games, "YOU DIED" is spelled out in all caps.

 

[Grief.exe]

In case anyone's curious, Namco PR told me today that they're working with Japan in hopes of saying something next week. It'll be on Kotaku whenever I get it.

Press them on some information about the PC version. I know that they want to keep us in the dark, but this is very relevant information when the game is currently on sale.

Will it reflect the PC trailer released late last year? Or will it reflect the current console version?

 

[Jarate]

If Dark Souls 2 was focus-tested to be made easier and more forgiving, its ironically exactly what everyone feared about its announcement.

And there are countless examples from players where the torch mechanic just isn't paying the dividends it was supposed to. The game has not been rebalanced around it either suffering from the lighting being cut out or cut because they wanted to make things easier.

Do you understand how preposterous the tutorial area is in teaching you how to light all important sconces in an area where you can already see everything around you clearly? Thats something that the game seems to think is something you'll need for the rest of it on the same level as learning to block. If they wanted to dramatically lessen that mechanic, they should have taken the unfortunate choice to delay the game and do it properly, not just take a carving knife to it and hope nobody noticed despite them bigging it up in every single interview.

We're also not sure its been cut FOR game design reasons and not simply because of the lighting engine hitting performance, and once again such a last minute change has taken a hit to the entire product like a house of cards.

Maybe they found out that people didnt like the torch mechanic, and they took it out becuase it was bad. This happens all the time in game developement. Hell, there arr remnants of shit in games that you probably dont even know that mightve been tied to a mechanic that's now no longer there. (Ocarina of Time with those creepy eye stones)

I dont get the fervor over the torch issue, these things happen literally all the time in game developement (there should be a book for secret of mana about all the cut content in that game)

 

[K.Jack]

I'm definitely down with this movement. The consumer should never have to buy the product, to find out massive changes were made.

It's like one team made the Beta build, then they handed it to a less talented team and told them to replicate what they saw, by eye. Doesn't look like they had much time either.

 

[Havel]

Yea I get the intent behind it but along with caps it makes seem unreasonably angry.

The YOU DIED screen is all caps. It's a nod, and nothing more.

What is really funny is that the people who seem angry in this thread are the ones who think this is about 'MUH ENTITLEMENTS'.

 

[Jarate]

I don't know about you, but I'd rather they tuned the mechanic according to feedback, not remove it from the game aside from being useful in specific areas.

They did tune the mechanic in the game, as it's still there, and still useful in certain situations. I dont get what you are asking for.

 

[Toxi]

Yeah, let's pretend the Souls games don't force you to use a shield unless you absolutely know what you're doing.

Uh, no, they really don't. It's very easy to play without a shield using projectiles, especially since magic breaks the game.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

Regardless of my viewpoint on the debate itself I do think the #YOULIED hashtag is very funny. It definitely serves the complete opposite purpose in that I would never be caught dead tweeting it, but it definitely is funny. It took me a second to get at first. And I can just picture the cacophonous sound queue to go along with it.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Maybe they found out that people didnt like the torch mechanic, and they took it out becuase it was bad. This happens all the time in game developement. Hell, there arr remnants of shit in games that you probably dont even know that mightve been tied to a mechanic that's now no longer there. (Ocarina of Time with those creepy eye stones)

I dont get the fervor over the torch issue, these things happen literally all the time in game developement (there should be a book for secret of mana about all the cut content in that game)

Yes. I know "what happens in game development". You don't need to repeat yourself there like a sage of wisdom.

I also know that a game that cuts an integral component that was advertised for its entire promotional tour and then pretended they could just release and their consumers would "deal with it" is a shitty game development that deserves to be called out and have answers dragged out of it.

Once again it would also highlight the tremendous damage sloppy focus testing can do to a game, much less one that achieved success and renown BECAUSE it bucked such trends and delivered a more hardcore "fuck you, get better" approach to adventuring. SCEA and co passed on localising Demon's Souls because they thought it was "too hard", nevermind the fervour of GAF and the internet in general at the shiver-inducing "making Dark Souls 2 more ACCESSIBLE" tagline it was announced with.

 

[ultron87]

Didn't Tanimura or some other dev say that they won't be toning down the darkness/torch element despite complaints from beta testers? I remember reading it in an interview.

At least fairly recently they described the torch approximately as it functions in the game now. See around 4:12 in here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB4Ke5F78QQ&t=4m12s

"As a game feature we have implemented a torch, and not just a torch but fire in general. Lighting a torch will create light, but it's not so much to encourage constantly holding the torch, but more to light up certain areas. By doing this, some enemies may try to avoid the fire, and by lighting certain areas, the player may be able to implement changes to the venue itself."

 

[zma1013]

I just don't like the "Splinter Cell" grey nightvision goggles effect that's in some of those screens. Quick, someone photoshop Sam Fisher's green goggles on a Dark Souls 2 screenshot or boxart.

 

[Jarate]

Yes. I know "what happens in game development". You don't need to repeat yourself there like a sage of wisdom.

I also know that a game that cuts an integral component that was advertised for its entire promotional tour and then pretended they could just release and their consumers would "deal with it" is a shitty game development that deserves to be called out and have answers dragged out of it.

Once again it would also highlight the tremendous damage sloppy focus testing can do to a game, much less one that achieved success and renown BECAUSE it bucked such trends and delivered a more hardcore "fuck you, get better" approach to adventuring.

The torch is still useful though...

And maybe the playtesters were hardcore gamers who didnt like it. Or Souls fans who didnt like it. Focus testing tests the game on a bunch of different levels, they just dont test the game on casuals.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Uh, no, they really don't. It's very easy to play without a shield using projectiles, especially since magic breaks the game.

I said "unless you know what you are doing".

Give the game to someone who never played a Souls game and tell him to go around without a shield without reading any guides or anything.

 

[Jarate]

I said "unless you know what you are doing".

Give the game to someone who never played a Souls game and tell him to go around without a shield without reading any guides or anything.

I used the Zweihander in Dark Souls 1. I never used a shield.

 

[jacksepticeye]

If the PC version is the same as the consoles then maybe Durante can make a "Dark Souls Dark Edition"

 

[Mkilbride]

nterview of Tanimura. In a site:

http://www.gamekult.com/actu/zoom-dark-souls-ii-A108297.html

Follows the (♥♥♥&#9829translation:

The evolution graph is however obvious, and not just because the game runs on a good PC at 60 fps. Version as a basis, we are assured we, the adjustments on consoles - with a frame rate divided by two, is not changed a hardware aging. Officially, nothing is planned for the next generation consoles.


I: The demo presented during the event ran on PC. This means there is also a PC version developed in-house?

T: The version shown before the interview actually ran on PC. If the first Dark Souls was adapted from consoles to PC, this time, it's the opposite. The PC version serves as a base from which the warranty is adaptations consoles. Clearly, the game is being developed simultaneously on different machines directly internally.

I: You also mentioned a new graphics engine for Dark Souls II. Is it an engine taken from zero or an adaptation of the former?

T: Yes, we reprogrammed from A to Z. We have not included elements from the previous engine.

I: Does this mean that the game could also be created on the next generation consoles?

T: Regarding Dark Souls II , the engine was not created with the next-generation Focus. Development of the first Dark Souls was particularly long, the engine was obsolete. It is for this reason that we wanted to start from scratch with Dark Souls II, to be able to fully express what we wanted. I know that the next generation of consoles are recurring themes this year, but the potential of the Xbox 360 and PS3 has not yet been fully exploited. This is why our attention is focused on current machines. For the moment, we do not believe in a port of Dark Souls II or in any other capacity on future machines.

All that showed on a PC running at 60 frames per second, and it shows that now have worked from the beginning in the PC version, which is much more polished, with better textures and lighting effects care. In consoles have set a goal to reach 30fps, and prevent serious falls in the rate of images that had some of the areas of the first Dark Souls, which were almost unplayable.

And sorry for bad english.

Come on folks.