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Developers Weigh In On The Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild's Brilliance
- Thread starter Exile20
- Start date
While it doesnt detract from your larger point about the structure I think this is kind of disingenuous. Yes you cant go anywhere in the world at large, but the plateau is a sizable place and there is nothing stopping you from having a mini adventure raiding the various bokoblin outposts, hunting for chests and foraging for food before the proper adventure starts. At most Zelda will tell you exactly once to refocus on the main objective and then leaves you alone. It doesnt hurt that even before getting the runes the games basic systems are fun enough and the layout of the great plateau is interesting enough that mucking about doing typical downtime BotW stuff is super engaging and rewarding even in its most limited form. I cant think of another openworld game in recent memory that lets you get to exploring and making your fun this quickly.
Smiles and Cries
Member
that was a great listen
I too hope this affect Nintendo more than it does other devs, I want to see what they learned from this and what they do next.
I too hope this affect Nintendo more than it does other devs, I want to see what they learned from this and what they do next.
primasaurus
Member
Damn truth!
victreeb3l
Member
I love your impressions. You also sold me on one of those holders. Thanks!
One of the greatest games ever. An open world filled with things to do with some of the best exploration I've ever seen. Puzzle mechanics are cool, but really it's dat climbing and dat gliding.
True exploration with the freedom to try anything. Everyone has their own story and pathing while playing this game
True exploration with the freedom to try anything. Everyone has their own story and pathing while playing this game
Naked Snake
Member
For anyone buying this holder make sure you don't overtighten the thing when you install it, or the plastic will start cracking​. I read that in the reviews and also the seller will mention it in an email after the package is delivered. I've been using mine for a week (and installating and removing it after every use) with no issues, as long as you're aware of its weak points and careful with it.
forknknife
Banned
You're going to leave it at 40 hours?? I also don't play that much, long games either get me bored at some point (GTA) or I decide to rush them at the end so that I can finish them (uncharted 4). But with BotW I have played 50 hours and only finished one dungeon (currently concentrated in finding all towers and discovering the map). I'm not even closed to tired of this game and seeing how long it's taken me to get to this point I imagine that even if I would decide to finish the game as fast as possible I would need 50 hours more. That's crazy.
But the poster I quoted isnt talking about mission structure presented to him. He's talking about crafting his own story in a world using the tools given to him, explicitly outside of designed content.
From his comments and those made by others, I'm getting a sense that people believe BotW is the only open world game "with a story and cohesion" that has provided the foundation to make emergent, "outside of story" experiences like that possible. To me his experience of attempting to execute a plan before seemingly failing, only to have accidental randomness reward you in unexpected ways is something common across a lot of genres these days. Why is that not actually the case? Before BotW, why did people think Skittzo0413's experience was limited to games devoid of story like minecraft?
Camper Van Beethoven
Banned
Let's hope everybody learns the lesson that weapon durability ruins games.
I find it fun. I just look at it like ammo. Does running out of ammo ruin games? Because it's practically the same thing.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
It's not the same thing. The ammo I pick up from a fight doesn't suddenly do less damage than the ammo I just fired. near the end I was fighting some enemies with 720 health that dropped low damage weapons. So to fight them I'd wear down higher damage weapons to get garbage
You being bad at the game ruins games.
gbpackers25
Member
Very interested to see what Levine has to say. I'll give this a watch as soon as I can!
TharpDaddy
Member
This is a really good video! I love hearing all their thoughts on it.
Camper Van Beethoven
Banned
I've beat the game.
The weapon durability shit is incredibly unfun and adds nothing to it.
Skittzo0413
Member
It's not really that emergent experiences were limited to games like that, it's that this game does such a good job of blending the actual narratives or side quests with those emergent experiences essentially every time you find something new to do in the game, be it a side quest or just a camp in the distance.
It also encourages you to make those crazy experiences by way of weapon degradation but that's kind of a different story. I'm typically not super creative in games like this but when I'd rather save my good weapons if I can it forces me to experiment like I did in that story I posted.
It's a subjective opinion, i personally find it enjoyable, interesting - and I can't really see how it detracts in any quantifiable way
FallingSputnik
Member
Totally, plus if you're using all your available resources and not attacking everything with your sword it shouldn't be a huge problem.
Nope. It's done very well in this game and drives the gameplay loop that is so enjoyable.
We all got opinions lol
It's exactly the same if you have a revolver, a semi-automatic rifle, a shotgun and a flamethrower; you're attacking with the rifle and you just got some revolver ammo.
Conversely, the weapon durability is great and adds layers of depth. Hah! Refuted!
Ploid 3.0
Member
So the durability system in Zelda is like ammo for melee weapons? I guess I can see the appeal in that. Though for crafted or unique stuff I'd better be able to find melee ammo for that or I'd consider it a wast of inventory space (I remember some alien weapon in Fallout 4 that I liked but didn't use or get comfortable with because of it's unique ammo).
Skittzo0413
Member
There is no unique weapon that you can permanently lose in BotW, as far as I know.
Messofanego
Banned
Seems you're not alone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk-EnbS42dM#t=43m20s
Ben Hanson (Game Informer): "It's their most bold game since Super Mario Galaxy. And if you think about that twist on the Mario formula, it doesn't even compare really. Oh so you just jump in a different way."
Candescence
Member
Interesting to see other developers talk about BOTW. I honestly believe this game is an instant classic that's gonna heavily influence future open-world games in terms of design. It borrows some aspects, but there are stuff you really don't see in other games - the sheer openness to the point where you can fight the final boss almost immediately, the sheer amount of systems-based design and integration with things such as physics and weather, etc.
Also... The durability system is really only "annoying" at the start. Once you start opening more weapon slots and getting into harder territory, as well as marking locations of good weapons, you're gonna be up to your ass in good shit. I seriously am nowhere near running out of weapons now. The closest comparison in terms of design is Dead Rising, and frankly, BOTW is leagues ahead of DR in that regard. The durability system in BOTW was practically required to make it as open as it is. And I normally hate durability systems - BOTW is probably one of the few games where it isn't superfluous and bullshit (or perhaps the only game, I'm legit struggling to think of another game where durability isn't simply infuriating). It's biggest actual problems are the weapon selection being linear rather than a radial menu and the lack of an option to swap out weapons while opening a chest, and that's about it.
Yeah, dungeon-earned weapons can be remade (albeit for a price), certain weapons can be located in certain easily-accessible spots around the map and they respawn (one of the best greatswords is literally at the top of one of the towers), and the Master Sword
. Granted, the dungeon-earned weapons are honestly kinda underpowered for what they are and how much it costs for them to be repaired.
Also... The durability system is really only "annoying" at the start. Once you start opening more weapon slots and getting into harder territory, as well as marking locations of good weapons, you're gonna be up to your ass in good shit. I seriously am nowhere near running out of weapons now. The closest comparison in terms of design is Dead Rising, and frankly, BOTW is leagues ahead of DR in that regard. The durability system in BOTW was practically required to make it as open as it is. And I normally hate durability systems - BOTW is probably one of the few games where it isn't superfluous and bullshit (or perhaps the only game, I'm legit struggling to think of another game where durability isn't simply infuriating). It's biggest actual problems are the weapon selection being linear rather than a radial menu and the lack of an option to swap out weapons while opening a chest, and that's about it.
Yeah, dungeon-earned weapons can be remade (albeit for a price), certain weapons can be located in certain easily-accessible spots around the map and they respawn (one of the best greatswords is literally at the top of one of the towers), and the Master Sword
becomes unusable for about ten real-time minutes if used enough times when not glowing
Neoleo2143
Member
I agree, but the game overall hits the mid skill range and below pretty hard, it doesn't really do much for people above that (Though the learning process for the game was extremely pleasant, Even though classic Zelda item progression wasn't really there, I felt that was replaced through me learning more about what I could do with Link's flexible moveset kinda like Super Mario 64). It's a classic in terms of overall cohesion and consistent design (much like my favorite game of all time, Super Mario Galaxy), but it just needs that push to appeal to high skill players. Thankfully we have DLC for that. So, yeah, people are probably going to come back to the game and see it as a classic even when they've learned everything.
By this logic it's disingenuous to say it about Skyward Sword as well since you can go on a mini adventure around Skyloft and Faron Woods. Which I certainly did when I first played the game. Skyloft is a much smaller area but it's a really dense location filled with lots of interesting characters and secrets and sidequests. You can rush through it just doing what you're supposed to do same with the Great Plateau, but you miss out on fleshing out one of the best towns in the series. Hell, before even going to Faron I went around and collected gratitude crystals.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
You can beat the game without learning many mechanics.....
If you learn how to effectively make the most out of your weapons, durability is a super fun mechanic in this game.
Throwing out your breaking weapon to land a critical hit, which also knocks your enemys weapon out their hand, then picking up that weapon and laying down a beat down on them.
That's what fun durability adds.
Really enjoyed the talk and hope to here more developer reflections on the game as well. Beyond game play and mechanics, Nintendo was able to tap into something on a psychological and behavioral level that gives the game much greater appeal and draw even though it falls under a "hardcore" gamer type game. Far to many people have become zelda addicted/infatuated after playing botw in contrast to other games for it to be a fluke or just what could be called a traditionally good game. This game is going to have more major legs beyond most games sales wise, and be inspirational on a "core/foundational" level going forward imo.
I my self bought my first amiibo because of the game to, lol. I also bought a pro controller mostly for zelda and saw a zelda skin set at walmart i almost bought for my switch. Bizzaro for me. Zelda has already justified my switch purchase simply from the experience and enjoyment I've got already (still seems a bit crazy saying that yet feels 100% true.)
I my self bought my first amiibo because of the game to, lol. I also bought a pro controller mostly for zelda and saw a zelda skin set at walmart i almost bought for my switch. Bizzaro for me. Zelda has already justified my switch purchase simply from the experience and enjoyment I've got already (still seems a bit crazy saying that yet feels 100% true.)
Soul of the Beast
Member
Are you one of those people who hate limited ammo in shooters? Because it ''adds nothing to the game'' ?
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Just got this game last night and I feel like the breaking weapons beef is way overstated. Weapons are literally everywhere, plus you can crus things with boulders, blow them up with your magic slab, bash them with iron blocks, etc.
Good shit
Good shit
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
The amount of lore and purpose for discovery and exploration in that game was something to behold... the amount of just books you can read is staggering.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
To be fair though, you could do that even if your weapon were indestructible...
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Why is the thing at the bottom left there?
Huge Succeeded
Banned
I really would like to see a couple of other open world RPGs with this kind of emphasis on freedom baked into their designs tho
ThanksVision
Member
i think the key to understanding the durability system is recognizing two things: 1) the game is respecting your creativity to find new solutions--don't just hack and slash and 2) don't hold items in high esteem. the map and everything in it is fleeting and variable and susceptible to change at any moment--from a weapon breaking to a sudden rainstorm that forces you to reroute. the game wants to keep you on your toes at all times in true survivalist fashion, and i think it accomplishes it almost perfectly tbh
if your weapons were indestructible you would never bother to pick up that enemy's weapon or throw yours in the first place. invincible weapons in a game like this would mean combat at hour 0 and hour 50 is the same for most players who don't want to change it up
if your weapons were indestructible you would never bother to pick up that enemy's weapon or throw yours in the first place. invincible weapons in a game like this would mean combat at hour 0 and hour 50 is the same for most players who don't want to change it up