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[Yam's]

That will inherently change the way open worlds are designed. The reason you can have so much freedom in Zelda is because it was designed from the beginning to trust the player.

Something most modern AAA games do not do.

Most modern open worlds want to tell a story though. Something that BotW had to sacrifice in order to give this freedom. Main quests are extremely short and there's only a few of them. Each of the 4 dungeons work in the same way from a narrative standpoint because they each have to be the potential first one the player will do.

It's a lot easier to do when your main focus is gameplay, but I don't see how other popular open world games like Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Witcher, etc. could offer that kind of freedom as they focus a lot more on narrative. Telling a story means you need some kind of linearity. Outside of story quests you are totally free to visit other open worlds in the order you want btw.

 

[Peterc]

I'm not a big fan of WOW but got to say no. MMO should focus on massive multiplayer part first and foremost. And as weird as it sounds, not many MMOs do? I often see the question regarding MMO "can I play this solo?" and it's baffling. If you can do this solo what's the point then?

So what you're saying is that you wsnt a mmo without enemies, questd and caves? What the point of that? Also dynamic weather is something they should use.
UO and wow are still the best MMOs out there

 

[Skittzo0413]

I agree with BOTW being a modern and superior ES III: Morrowind type of open world. The biggest difference is that I will never associate any developer who worked on the Elder's Scroll as a "genius". Bethesda do have great ideas, but they also have very bad ones which make their way into their games. They simply cannot find the balance or have the level of polish that you have from Nintendo EPD.

Eh I'd disagree. Even if nobody else, I'd say Michael Kirkbride's writing qualifies as genius. Vivec and CHIM are not concepts most people could come up with.

 

[hairygreenpeas]

I haven't even played the game yet but I'm absolutely loving the fact that it seems to have reached an influence over big name developers. The level of player and environmental interactivity alone from various gameplay videos I have seen, and the scope of freedom/non-linear progression, is definitely something to be considered in future open world games that aim for a similar experience (would not be opposed to the formula becoming standard across all games though! Bring it!)

I hadn't even thought about it until they mentioned it (which just goes to show how right they are), but this game is indeed the least buggy or glitchy modern open world I've ever seen. Amazing.

And really, it's a technical marvel. All those systems working, all the moving parts, from tiny bugs to huge dragons, and it runs very well.

But all the talk is about "huge framerate issues". Compare this game's performance "issues" to any other open world, especially before months of patches. It's a finished product out of the box. Unbelievable in this day and age. And from a company doing its first modern open world.

As much as I tend to find comparisons between BOTW and Horizon jarring, it seems pretty appropriate to bring up the latter in this scenario because it is one of those incredibly rare, super polished open world games in terms of quality assurance and performance right out of the gate. Maintaining a stable framerate at 30fps at the insane visuals it beholds is insane, especially when compared to the technical aspects of previous big-name open world games.

But I also have no doubt BOTW holds well on its own, given its various features, jam-packed little details, and high levels of interactivity. Art direction is also quite nice!

 

[BorkBork]

I've played quite a few games that have swept me in and have me thinking during the workday of getting back to the game as soon as I get home, but i haven't played a game were it seems I am truly a part of an epic story. I've had encounters/boss battles in BotW where I've finished the fight or quest and I'm like wow - that was an amazing experience. I can't quite put my finger on what exactly separates it from other games I've played but it's there.

The hook has a different feel. I have been captivated by game stories and adventures before - it feels more like an addiction where I really want to know what happens next. The feeling I get from BOTW is subtler - I am always game to return, but there need not be a single thing compelling me to do so. Rather it's a trip back to an entire world that's the draw - I've been pretty much able to recall every single play session thus far - the surprises, the disappointments, the triumphs because they all hang on me and my choices, sans any imposed narratives. That is really special.

 

[Version 3.0]

As much as I tend to find comparisons between BOTW and Horizon jarring, it seems pretty appropriate to bring up the latter in this scenario because it is one of those incredibly rare, super polished open world games in terms of performance right out of the gate. Maintaining a stable framerate at 30fps at the insane visuals it beholds is insane, especially when compared to the technical aspects of previous big-name open world games.

Good point. I only played Horizon for a few hours before Zelda took over, but everything seemed rock solid there, and I haven't heard otherwise since. Maybe it's a 1st party thing. Not that any studio can't finish their game before releasing it - no one will ever convince me otherwise - but maybe 1st party studios are just overseen by less impatient / greedy / shortsighted higher-ups.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

I need Breath of the Wild's design married to a dev that creates immersive, realistic experiences, like yesterday. God damn. The best part about Breath of the Wild is knowing that other developers could take its lessons and run them in their own directions. What I wouldn't fucking give for a Fable, Witcher, or Elder Scrolls game that plays like they have in the past, but with a full set of rules governing the physicality of the world itself, and tools given to me which allows me to manipulate them.

Like, I would be hyped for a fucking Fable game and all they'd need to do is say "Well Breath of the Wild was cool so we're just doing a bunch of that. Also, you can plant trees youself and cut then down 20 in-game years later etc etc"

 

[Peltz]

The hook has a different feel. I have been captivated by game stories and adventures before - it feels more like an addiction where I really want to know what happens next. The feeling I get from BOTW is subtler - I am always game to return, but there need not be a single thing compelling me to do so. Rather it's a trip back to an entire world that's the draw - I've been pretty much able to recall every single play session thus far - the surprises, the disappointments, the triumphs because they all hang on me and my choices, sans any imposed narratives. That is really special.

Damn... I can't wait to get home and dive back in. I'm averaging around 5 hours a day in BotW and it's just not enough.

 

[pringles]

It's a great game but it really doesn't do anything new

....what.

 

[Skittzo0413]

The hook has a different feel. I have been captivated by game stories and adventures before - it feels more like an addiction where I really want to know what happens next. The feeling I get from BOTW is subtler - I am always game to return, but there need not be a single thing compelling me to do so. Rather it's a trip back to an entire world that's the draw - I've been pretty much able to recall every single play session thus far - the surprises, the disappointments, the triumphs because they all hang on me and my choices, sans any imposed narratives. That is really special.

It takes a lot of the "make your own story" aspect of games like Minecraft but implants that into a world with its own story and cohesion. When you play and explore randomly you're basically making your own epic story without the developers laying down any explicit path for you.

Example: the other day I was in the desert region and found a camp of bokoblins sitting by some explosive barrels. There was another explosive barrel a bit closer to me so I decided to stick some octo balloons to it and try to float it over towards them. Well, I didn't quite get it to float in their direction. The balloons popped when the barrel was floating over this nearby patch of tall grass, so I got upset that the bokoblins would now know that I'm here.

But it turns out, there were a couple lizalfos camouflaged sitting in that grass! So I unwittingly killed both of them where, if I approached the bokoblin camp like a normal person with my sword drawn, they would've wound up flanking me from behind.

That's an emergent story that I experienced with this game. The designers didn't plan or guide me into doing this, but it felt just as real as the actual, crafted story.

 

[HowZatOZ]

The biggest thing devs could learn is shipping a game actually feature complete and with far less bugs than what western devs are comfortable with right now.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

As much as I tend to find comparisons between BOTW and Horizon jarring, it seems pretty appropriate to bring up the latter in this scenario because it is one of those incredibly rare, super polished open world games in terms of quality assurance and performance right out of the gate. Maintaining a stable framerate at 30fps at the insane visuals it beholds is insane, especially when compared to the technical aspects of previous big-name open world games.

But I also have no doubt BOTW holds well on its own, given its various features, jam-packed little details, and high levels of interactivity. Art direction is also quite nice!

I am a huge skeptic of GG and from my perspective Horizon is a downright miracle. I never expected Guerilla Games to get even half of the shit that comes with making a good RPG right. I can't wait to play it, but I gotta beat Zelda first. And who knows when that's gonna happen.

I'm well over a hundred hours into Zelda. I've opened up maybe one third of its map. Every single play session, I'm seeing new things, new places, new ideas that blow my mind. I've never played a game like this, but I've been hearing enough great things about Horizon that I can't wait to dive back into a more traditional and super polished open world RPG once I'm done with this one.

The hook has a different feel. I have been captivated by game stories and adventures before - it feels more like an addiction where I really want to know what happens next. The feeling I get from BOTW is subtler - I am always game to return, but there need not be a single thing compelling me to do so. Rather it's a trip back to an entire world that's the draw - I've been pretty much able to recall every single play session thus far - the surprises, the disappointments, the triumphs because they all hang on me and my choices, sans any imposed narratives. That is really special.

Great post, that's pretty much how I feel.

 

[purdobol]

So what you're saying is that you wsnt a mmo without enemies, questd and caves? What the point of that? Also dynamic weather is something they should use.
UO and wow are still the best MMOs out there

I'm sorry maybe wasn't clear enough. I mean they can take some cues from BotW, like weather (that's a good point) and physics, but ultimately if you take BotW and try to imagine it as MMO it just wouldn't work. Blood moon type of respawn of enemies would not work in MMO, weapon durability system wouldn't work in MMO and so on.

That genre strenght lies in cooperation and (which is often ovelooked) competetive aspect between large amount of real people playing and comunicating at the same time. While BotW is clearly single player affair. There's just not many things you can take from BotW and apply straight into MMO game without need of significantly changing it.

I'm personally a fan of NCsoft titles when it comes to MMO. But UO is no slouch i'll give you that.

 

[hairygreenpeas]

Good point. I only played Horizon for a few hours before Zelda took over, but everything seemed rock solid there, and I haven't heard otherwise since. Maybe it's a 1st party thing. Not that any studio can't finish their game before releasing it - no one will ever convince me otherwise - but maybe 1st party studios are just overseen by less impatient / greedy / shortsighted higher-ups.

I am a huge skeptic of GG and from my perspective Horizon is a downright miracle. I never expected Guerilla Games to get even half of the shit that comes with making a good RPG right. I can't wait to play it, but I gotta beat Zelda first. And who knows when that's gonna happen.

I'm well over a hundred hours into Zelda. I've opened up maybe one third of its map. Every single play session, I'm seeing new things, new places, new ideas that blow my mind. I've never played a game like this, but I've been hearing enough great things about Horizon that I can't wait to dive back into a more traditional and super polished open world RPG once I'm done with this one.

There is definitely that special care and polish that seems readily apparent in many first party games, whether or not they perform up to company/critic expectations (at least from my experience!) I think it may be because they always have the potential of defining its respective console brand.

And yes, 2017 has been an absolute blessing for us gamers. Hopefully such quality titles will continue to release throughout the year! In the mean time, we definitely have all our hands full this first quarter alone lol.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

It takes a lot of the "make your own story" aspect of games like Minecraft but implants that into a world with its own story and cohesion. When you play and explore randomly you're basically making your own epic story without the developers laying down any explicit path for you.

Example: the other day I was in the desert region and found a camp of bokoblins sitting by some explosive barrels. There was another explosive barrel a bit closer to me so I decided to stick some octo balloons to it and try to float it over towards them. Well, I didn't quite get it to float in their direction. The balloons popped when the barrel was floating over this nearby patch of tall grass, so I got upset that the bokoblins would now know that I'm here.

But it turns out, there were a couple lizalfos camouflaged sitting in that grass! So I unwittingly killed both of them where, if I approached the bokoblin camp like a normal person with my sword drawn, they would've wound up flanking me from behind.

That's an emergent story that I experienced with this game. The designers didn't plan or guide me into doing this, but it felt just as real as the actual, crafted story.

It's really something, isn't it? For me it was the very first thing I engaged in off the plateau that solidified this game for me as one of my favorites.

Gliding off the plateau, I had just one goal in mind. Get myself a sweet horse.

You could say I managed that :3

and it was some of the most fun I've ever had in an open world RPG, getting my horse. (The full story plus pictures is at that link above)

It wasn't a marked quest. It wasn't an experience that anyone else is going to have verbatim. It was just some shit I decided to do, and succeeded at despite the odds, and boy, it felt a whole fuckload better than clearing a quest in Skyrim, that's for sure. In fact, at the time it was the best experience I had had in a game all year, and as of now, it's only topped by some of the other shit I've engaged in in Zelda since.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Nice. Thanks for sharing OP.

 

[Struct09]

I'm still in the mood to hear people gush about this game, tagged to watch later

 

[phanphare]

It's really something, isn't it? For me it was the very first thing I engaged in off the plateau that solidified this game for me as one of my favorites.

Gliding off the plateau, I had just one goal in mind. Get myself a sweet horse.

You could say I managed that :3

and it was some of the most fun I've ever had in an open world RPG, getting my horse. (The full story plus pictures is at that link above)

It wasn't a marked quest. It wasn't an experience that anyone else is going to have verbatim. It was just some shit I decided to do, and succeeded at despite the odds, and boy, it felt a whole fuckload better than clearing a quest in Skyrim, that's for sure. In fact, at the time it was the best experience I had had in a game all year, and as of now, it's only topped by some of the other shit I've engaged in in Zelda since.

it's funny because I bet many people will share your sentiment, I know I do, but with a totally different experience

when I first got off the plateau I sort of went where the game wanted me to but I also wanted to climb a mountain to get there and that experience and those first hours with the game are an experience that I will never forget. I think many people will share that sentiment that the first X number of hours in Breath of the Wild will be one of their favorite gaming experiences of all time and every individual person probably did something totally different.

 

[Peltz]

Eh I'd disagree. Even if nobody else, I'd say Michael Kirkbride's writing qualifies as genius. Vivec and CHIM are not concepts most people could come up with.

Yea, the writing in that game is some of the best I've read in a videogame. Heck, it's just great writing, period.

Bethesda do have great ideas, but they also have very bad ones which make their way into their games. They simply cannot find the balance or have the level of polish that you have from Nintendo EPD.

I agree, but that's also a ridiculously high bar.

 

[BorkBork]

It takes a lot of the "make your own story" aspect of games like Minecraft but implants that into a world with its own story and cohesion. When you play and explore randomly you're basically making your own epic story without the developers laying down any explicit path for you.

Example: the other day I was in the desert region and found a camp of bokoblins sitting by some explosive barrels. There was another explosive barrel a bit closer to me so I decided to stick some octo balloons to it and try to float it over towards them. Well, I didn't quite get it to float in their direction. The balloons popped when the barrel was floating over this nearby patch of tall grass, so I got upset that the bokoblins would now know that I'm here.

But it turns out, there were a couple lizalfos camouflaged sitting in that grass! So I unwittingly killed both of them where, if I approached the bokoblin camp like a normal person with my sword drawn, they would've wound up flanking me from behind.

That's an emergent story that I experienced with this game. The designers didn't plan or guide me into doing this, but it felt just as real as the actual, crafted story.

It's a shame it petered out, but there was a thread where people were sharing their tales travelling through the game. It was really fun to share and to read everyone's unique narratives.

I also understand why this game can be polarizing - it asks something of you as the player. Over the years I have found myself seeking from the medium the comfort of cohesive, well-written narratives - I want to sit down and have someone else work out everything - the emotional peaks and dramatic notes - so that my only job is consume (and critique). Make-believe and coming up with your own story takes effort and practice. BOTW is a resounding success for me because it not only gives me permission to do those things, but encourages and rewards those impulses in a variety of ways. One's mileage may vary always due to our own expectations and biases, but for me the game has offered me something I haven't experienced in the medium for years. I can't say it's the best games I've every played, but I can say it's amongst the most memorable.

 

[Chill Penguin]

The most shocking thing is how little the game holds your hand. A complete 180 from what you expect from Nintendo. After the beginning area you're just completely free to do what you want. You would imagine a potential pitfall there would be an imbalance in difficulty as you progress depending on where you decided to explore first. It seems Nintendo solved this by making every area difficult. Maybe I'm just bad at videogames these days but I've found breath of the wild to be a very difficult game, which makes it feel like borderline survival horror at times. Loving every minute of it though.

 

[Peltz]

The most shocking thing is how little the game holds your hand. A complete 180 from what you expect from Nintendo. After the beginning area you're just completely free to do what you want. You would imagine a potential pitfall there would be an imbalance in difficulty as you progress depending on where you decided to explore first. It seems Nintendo solved this by making every area difficult. Maybe I'm just bad at videogames these days but I've found breath of the wild to be a very difficult game, which makes it feel like borderline survival horror at times. Loving every minute of it though.

That's interesting. I've only finished one

Spoiler

divine beast

but already feel overpowered a bit due to some of the weapons I have. Then again, I kill everything I see including bosses in the overworld. Their weapons plus certain meals can lead to a lot of devastating combinations that cause a lot of damage.

 

[KyleCross]

Did you listened to it before posting a comment ? because you're repeating a lot the same thing through many threads.
No one is talking being a revolution at all.

No, and why would I have needed to? I wasn't saying anything about the podcast, I was replying to a post I very much did read. Also "repeating the same stuff through many threads?" What do you consider "many" and why would my opinions change between threads? Why are you targeting me like I'm some sort of drive-by shit poster? I'm seriously confused where this is coming from.

 

[Cuburt]

I wish they had all watched the GDC panel because I thought there was a lot of great insight to their development in there. The main reason is that I'd like to hear what they think specifically about Nintendo's "Chemistry Engine" because I think it's a pretty legit and even though other games have had interactivity of that sort to one degree or another, Nintendo took it even further by making it a cohesive system that underlies the entire game in unexpected ways and has become not just a cool gameplay mechanic that adds a cool flourish to immersion, but something that is a core part of the game. It may not apply to every game, just like many things about Zelda removing many "gates", breaking game conventions, and emphasizing exploration may not apply to every game type, but it's a holistic approach to game design, especially in terms of emergent worlds and immersive experiences, that I think is just too compelling for developers to ignore.

At the very least, I could see that approach being way more common in VR where experimentation, immersion, and personal expression are so highly regarded in that space. We often look at stuff in game design that gives people options by creating an illusion of freedom but it's often done through a painstaking of developers handcrafting those individual options behind the scenes, which is fulfilling for players but also is very labor intensive and has it's own drawbacks and limitations approaching things that way, whether it's filling every building in a city in GTA with stuff to do and people to talk to and radio stations and in-game websites and vehicles or if it's about providing dialog trees that make players feel like every decision has an impact. Then on the other side, we have a game like No Man's Sky which attempted (and many believed it would succeed) in creating the systems and rules for the core game and then letting procedural generation build a universe filled with all the complexity created through algorithms instead of hand-making everything. BotW does something specific like create a rule set for properties of materials and elements to form an engine that specializes on those interactions and I don't think we've seen a game attempt something like that on this scale before.

 

[The_Lump]

The hook has a different feel. I have been captivated by game stories and adventures before - it feels more like an addiction where I really want to know what happens next. The feeling I get from BOTW is subtler - I am always game to return, but there need not be a single thing compelling me to do so. Rather it's a trip back to an entire world that's the draw - I've been pretty much able to recall every single play session thus far - the surprises, the disappointments, the triumphs because they all hang on me and my choices, sans any imposed narratives. That is really special.

This is a really great post, that's exactly what it feels like. Nintendo haven't reinvented the 'open' part of openworld design, they have perfected the 'world' part of open world design. I feel connected to the environment around me, and all the experiences therein really feel like a result of my actions and my choices. You genuinely feel free, beyond just freedom of movement.

Edit: Good podcast/interview thingy in the OP. Really interesting to hear developer's insights.

 

[Soul of the Beast]

It's a great game but it really doesn't do anything new.

Maybe you should....umm...play the game first before saying that?

(And just in case you lied about having played the game, here's a question. What does a Korok say everytime you find one?)

 

[guit3457]

The biggest thing devs could learn is shipping a game actually feature complete and with far less bugs than what western devs are comfortable with right now.

Two words: Mario Club

Not every company has something like that

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Two words: Mario Club

Not every company has something like that

You'd think companies like EA and Ubisoft would though. Corporations that are actually much larger than Nintendo. Nintendo simply takes QA more seriously than most. For a long time, the excuse was that Nintendo's games are polished, because they're not as ambitious or complex as most modern titles. Well, that's not really an excuse one can fall back on anymore.

 

[Yarbskoo]

It's really great to hear what people inside the industry think about what Nintendo's accomplished here.


But...


Where's my damn Switch restock Nintendo? I got this game card sitting over here being useless.

 

[broncobuster]

An embarrassment amount of hours in Zelda, having played various other open world games, I feel what Zelda does unique is applying immersive sim elements to a truly open world.

But I'll continue to recommend Dragon's Dogma for anyone enjoying Zelda BOTW. It shares a lot of the DNA and does some of it better.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

I don't get it I guess. I can play zelda for 90 mins and not accomplish anything. That's not fun to me.

Depends what you're doing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EvbqxBUG_c

Similar to stuff like GTA, Saints Row, and whatnot, I can easily "waste time doing nothing" but still have a good time messing around and just exploring.

 

[SciencePilot]

Great video. I think the point they brought up that's interesting to me is just how well balanced the game is. The size and density of the world is really perfectly tuned. So is the difficulty. Even little things like the rupee and resource economy is really well balanced. It really just feels like they must have iterated over and over again to get the balance right.

 

[Kremzeek]

It's things like this that make me convinced that Breath of the Wild is going to become an immortalized classic and required reading on open world game design.

yeah, but hopefully not regarding how your weapons break after just a few encounters.

that mechanic is something i can do without.

 

[BorkBork]

yeah, but hopefully not regarding how your weapons break after just a few encounters.

that mechanic is something i can do without.

That doesn't happen with more durable weapons.

 

[Zombegoast]

yeah, but hopefully not regarding how your weapons break after just a few encounters.

that mechanic is something i can do without.

Yeah my Ancient Battle axe ++ I got early shouldn't break.

 

[Primethius]

Honestly, as I play BotW, there's not much I think other devs will take from except maybe the free form climbing.

There's a lot of stuff it does that I feel has already been done better elsewhere and the uniqueness it does execute in terms of the physics sandbox feels sometimes a bit too limiting to really take hold.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Yeah my Ancient Battle axe ++ I got early shouldn't break.

Ancient weapons are explicitly described as fragile, and with good reason since they're pretty overpowered.

Most mid-late game weapons have excellent durability. You can typically get through 2-3 camps (or 2-3 silver enemies) with a single late game weapon.

And honestly, the game just wouldn't work at all without weapon degradation. What's the point of exploring camps looking for neat weapons, or taking on a lynel when you already have a great end game weapon or a lynel bow? Even increasing the durability wouldn't be a good idea since about 2-3 hours off the plateau you start to wish you had more room for all the weapons you're finding.

Maybe they need to tweak the durability of tree branches and boko clubs?

 

[Rpgmonkey]

While its world design is very good, I actually hope more developers pick up an interest in how BoTW implemented the interactions between Link and the environment, and the environment interacting with itself.

The way so many things in the game can burn, freeze, conduct electricity, react to weather, break, move, and maybe some other stuff I'm forgetting is easily the most fascinating thing about the game to me. This kind of stuff doesn't tend to come together as well in other games, in my experience.

Given the abundance of things like spells in the genre it's something I'd really like to see RPGs explore further. I can think of a couple games that have played around with the concept but it tends to end up being a neat but short-lived trick that's not really fleshed-out enough to me.

 

[Cuburt]

Serious question, does anyone know if weapons "regenerate" if you don't use them for a while?

I have a theory that there are only 3 states a weapon/bow/shield has: new, used, and damaged and that there are no "hitpoints" an item retains outside of a set of encounters or sustained usage. The reason I think this is because I have some item hording tendencies that cause me to use weapons only for specific sets of circumstances and some of them seem to almost never break unless I use them heavily in a smaller amount of time.

I just think that with all of this minimal usage, if there were sustained HP for each item, that I'd often pull out a weapon I haven't used in a while and use it once before it telling me it's damaged, but that has yet to happen, leading me to believe that they "regenerate" or reset to a certain level after a set of encounters or a certain amount of time between usage.

I mean, doesn't it seem like horses are kind of the same way. I don't know of anything the game told me about "horse healing" mechanics and we know they can die, but I have yet to have a horse get nicked by a rock and croak after sustaining a lot of damage over time, but riding a horse into the horde of Guardians has killed my horse, and even the less hearty horses can take a bit of damage.

 

[FallingSputnik]

Mario Galaxy 2 is great but Nintendo needs to go Majora's Mask on that engine. A darker, more contained, weird af Zelda would be the perfect compliment.

Oh god this would be glorious, and after all the time they spent working on this, why not reuse it, hell bring back Majoras Mask if you have to, do it Ninty!

 

[GDGF]

Depends what you're doing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EvbqxBUG_c

Similar to stuff like GTA, Saints Row, and whatnot, I can easily "waste time doing nothing" but still have a good time messing around and just exploring.

Holy shit I haven't even tried half of the stuff he's doing in that video.

 

[ec0ec0]

I wish they had all watched the GDC panel because I thought there was a lot of great insight to their development in there. The main reason is that I'd like to hear what they think specifically about Nintendo's "Chemistry Engine" because I think it's a pretty legit and even though other games have had interactivity of that sort to one degree or another, Nintendo took it even further by making it a cohesive system that underlies the entire game in unexpected ways and has become not just a cool gameplay mechanic that adds a cool flourish to immersion, but something that is a core part of the game.

To add to this, another reason why they should all have watched the GDC panel, before doing the podcast, was to also discuss the "multiplicative gameplay" which, apart from getting the world balance right, was the main goal behind the game. They discussed the world extensively, but almost completely ignored the other part, which they absolutely wouldn't have done, had they all watched the panel first.

That aspect of the video was disappointing, honestly. Once they finally mention the GDC panel, you expect them to get deep into it and... they go over it in a couple of minutes. Dammit. There was so much for them to talk about in there.

 

[En-ou]

The most shocking thing is how little the game holds your hand. A complete 180 from what you expect from Nintendo. After the beginning area you're just completely free to do what you want. You would imagine a potential pitfall there would be an imbalance in difficulty as you progress depending on where you decided to explore first. It seems Nintendo solved this by making every area difficult. Maybe I'm just bad at videogames these days but I've found breath of the wild to be a very difficult game, which makes it feel like borderline survival horror at times. Loving every minute of it though.

yep. they set the theme of discovery from the start and made sure everything revolved around it. its something that cannot substituted.

 

[Lingitiz]

Honestly, as I play BotW, there's not much I think other devs will take from except maybe the free form climbing.

There's a lot of stuff it does that I feel has already been done better elsewhere and the uniqueness it does execute in terms of the physics sandbox feels sometimes a bit too limiting to really take hold.

There's way more to take from it than that. The really smart signposting with no need for waypoints is going to be a big one. Along with visual world design focused on verticality rather than mindlessly following a distance icon.

That to me is the key difference from other open world games that makes it so much more rewarding to explore the world here. It sounds minor but it takes a combination of a lot of smart design elements to work. If you simply removed the waypoints from Horizon, it wouldn't work the same way. It would just be bad, obscure world design.

 

[flyinpiranha]

I'll watch this when I get home but the huge takeaway for me with this most recent Zelda is that like other open world games I can spend hours and not ... really do anything. I think that makes a great world.

It's why open world RPGS are my favorite genre. I really, really wish it didn't have so many framerate issues with the Switch docked mode, though. That's the only big issue I have with the game so far, otherwise it's amazing that I'm really exploring in a Zelda game.

I still find myself going back to Horizon though.

 

[pringles]

Ancient weapons are explicitly described as fragile, and with good reason since they're pretty overpowered.

Most mid-late game weapons have excellent durability. You can typically get through 2-3 camps (or 2-3 silver enemies) with a single late game weapon.

And honestly, the game just wouldn't work at all without weapon degradation. What's the point of exploring camps looking for neat weapons, or taking on a lynel when you already have a great end game weapon or a lynel bow? Even increasing the durability wouldn't be a good idea since about 2-3 hours off the plateau you start to wish you had more room for all the weapons you're finding.

Maybe they need to tweak the durability of tree branches and boko clubs?

The more I play the more I'm convinced the weapon durability system is genius. People just need to get over their attachment to a random sword. Only weapon you should be attached to in a Zelda game is the Master Sword. The combat is extremely enjoyable because you're never leaning on nothing but 1 weapon for hours on end. Picking up random weapons and using for a bit and throwing in the face of an enemy for a critical hit as they break never ceases to be enjoyable, and instead of mindlessly running towards enemies and pressing Y I'm trying to use every trick in the book to dispatch mobs not only quickly but efficiently. Anytime you have a real need to use your best weapons you're almost always rewarded with similar or better ones. I'm 70+ hours in and this is a point where I've long since become insanely OP in nearly all other open world games or even stuff like Dark Souls. Frickin' ZELDA still manages to maintain a decent challenge though. The balance of this game..

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Holy shit I haven't even tried half of the stuff he's doing in that video.

SET SAIL FOR ADVENTURE

 

[Sammy Samusu]

I wish we had more developers talking about other companies games, really interesting talk.

Nintendo is a dream company for many developers and Zelda is an iconic franchise.

Not everybody has that. This is special.

 

[Primethius]

There's way more to take from it than that. The really smart signposting with no need for waypoints is going to be a big one. Along with visual world design focused on verticality rather than mindlessly following a distance icon.

That to me is the key difference from other open world games that makes it so much more rewarding to explore the world here. It sounds minor but it takes a combination of a lot of smart design elements to work. If you simply removed the waypoints from Horizon, it wouldn't work the same way. It would just be bad, obscure world design.

Can't really agree with that as I played and completed the entirety of Horizon without way points. The world is actually designed really well designed and I find it much superior to the offering in BotW. As a result, I actually found that world easier to navigate due to the variety of environments and design thereof without waypoints then Zelda's frequently bland looking hills and mountains.

 

[BruceCLea]

Hansen is the best part about GI.


mmmbop