I haven't seen enough of it personally to comment if they are good or bad but I'm just saying that's the most important part of a racing game to me.
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Digital Foundry: Hands-on with DriveClub (second tech preview)
- Thread starter nib95
- Start date
Based on my time at the expo it was the best handling racing game. It was better than FH2 and Crew.
I assume this was with a controller?
What, you don't enjoy racing nothing but seemingly randomly constructed point to point races with endless straights?
I really liked Burnout Paradise, but I've had quite enough of that. Rivals was super dull.
What benefits would that be? That is indeed the second most disapointing thing about Driveclub/Evo, first being the bad joke which is a 30FPS racer in 2014. But Evos strong point with Motorstorm was AMAZING and memorable track design. No everything looks the same, besides you are still choosing racing tracks. Great.
Yup.
It's not open world in the sense that you are driving around where you want, but it's open world in the sense of that they created a huge open territorium where the racing takes place? That is what I thought.
serversurfer
Member
I think I'm confused. Are you saying Driveclub won't have awesome track design like Motorstorm did? Why do you think that? Because it's not open world? But Motorstorm wasn't open world either =/
Edit: No, all the tracks are in the same location pacific island or whatever but there's no way to drive from one track to the next. Have you actually experienced any of the awesome track design whose loss you're lamenting?
Did you just come up with your own definition of what an open world racer is? Not sure how DC falls into one even if we go by your definition of it.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
Oh, the game is probably going gold within the next week, right?
SolidSnakex
Member
DC isn't open world in any sense. It's a track/circuit based racer. You'll select the specific track/circuit that you want to race on from a menu.
What are the benefits of an open world game period? People like driving around doing nothing. I'd rather drive a nail through my nose but look at how popular those games are.
I agree that more time =/= higher quality, but I simply can't agree that there is no compromise to at least a certain extent..
Assuming the team size would remain static, in a closed circuit racer you're able to dedicate more man hours to a smaller chunk of game...it's simple math at that point that there is a good chance more detail or polish can be applied to a small area than a large area...
It's going to take me longer to work on 16 miles of road than it is a 2mile track...
Purely from a track design perspective, even ignoring the work environmental artists have to put in there is quite a difference between creating a track purely for racing than a general purpose street that is connected in various directions.
That doesn't mean that racing on general purpose streets isn't fun, but it's different from racing on a purposely created track.
I mean everyone who plays racing games knows that games have features mirrored versions of tracks and even though the track is the same, the direction alone already influences the flow of the racing.
Everything looks the same? The different tracks look pretty distinct to me. Not to mention the impact of changing weather and the day cycle on the overall vibe of the locations.
I do hope there is a city or more occupied setting in the game, but suspect that will be DLC or saved for the possible next entry.
ReplacementPelican
Member
Do you not remember? It was posted around like it was gospel
by people who hadn't played it
MightyHedgehog
Member
Though I agree that open world/open road racers have tended to have lesser track design than their more traditional cousins, there is absolutely nothing preventing courses and tracks that are as well-designed from being included within their large worlds. I mean, a streaming landscape can contain an arbitrary set of data that can include tracks that were designed without the connections to the wider network of roads in an open world/open road structure. This is how, I assume, all design work in those games is handled, at least initially. It's the random-feeling piecemeal construction of courses in earlier games of this type, like Burnout Paradise, Midtown Madness games, and some early Midnight Clubs, that gave a lesser impression to the overall style of interface that eschewed typical menus and their associated load times. I'd rather have a more organic and contiguous world that contains the high quality courses with a fast-travel option than suffer through loads of annoying menus with their own sets of load times. I just think there's too much mileage given to the notion that open world/open road is inherently lesser than closed course presentations. The more open structure can still limit players as the designers see fit to enforce a tighter challenge that isn't breakable by having too much freedom of movement involved. Atari's Gravitar and 720° did this by simply making the interconnecting world lead to closed areas, but allowed players the freedom to control and interact using the same gameplay control and rules. Also, it gives you the chance to feel out new and different vehicles with new/different tuning or parts, try out and practice driving maneuvers en route to the next race, and simply organically link up and meet up with people without the typical software interfaces of menus and windows. I personally think it's the future of the way racers should be, so long as it allows fast travel as an option.
My mistake then. I just took it, since they were talking about modelling every fine detail of the world is so important, they were going some sort of open world. That makes 30FPS even less understandable. Well, at least, those people who can bear with it are probably in for some great track design, given their...hrhr...track record. You get it.
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
I hope after this game Evo wont just immediately go onto DC2.
We need a new Motorstorm! It is such a shame having such unbelievably gorgeous racing environments and having to be confined to a race track.
That is why the Motorstorm games were so stupendous. You could go wherever you wanted.
We need a new Motorstorm! It is such a shame having such unbelievably gorgeous racing environments and having to be confined to a race track.
That is why the Motorstorm games were so stupendous. You could go wherever you wanted.
I don't think anybody is saying open world racers CANT be as detailed or well designed as their closed circuit cousins...simply that given dev teams of equal size, and an equal amount of time...that man hours have to be spread out over much more area on the open world racer...
It's 30fps because it's hands down the most graphically impressive racer we've ever seen on a console...maybe the best looking console game period...
And according to the devs...while it may not be open world, as in you can't drive wherever you want...everything that can be seen is rendered...essentially you're rendering the game like its open world (maybe not as big as say FH2)....but locking the cars to a close circuit of road...
MightyHedgehog
Member
While there is certainly more to test because of the increased range of interaction, and there is more artist time to fill it out with well-distributed quality of detail, due to players being so close to it all, if the future of closed circuit racing is hinted at by Drive Club, I wonder if that actually holds true now or if it will continue to be so given so much work done on environment, yet clearly demanding a lot of developer engineering and polish all the same. The same procedural approaches to systems-driven behaviors featured and layered all around the game world and the tools used to create those endless horizons of dense foliage and geometric detail can be used just as well in a game world that the players can drive within and through and not just the slivers of road and track that confines them in DC. QA and optimization may be a bit more burdensome with an open world game, but I wonder if it's really so much more so when all modern major game development software and design focus is now built around the streaming game world that makes up some of the most popular games sold today.
DC is actually the perfect example of what I'm saying however...considering that the game was delayed for a year...
MightyHedgehog
Member
Well, I still don't really find the idea of manpower/time to be a total barrier to open world design when the race venues can still be handled the same and the open road/world element simply a connective tissue that doesn't necessitate the same level of care or design. I mean, no one particularly cares or even expects that the outside world of roads that connects real world tracks and courses isn't up to that same level of design and challenge. A open road/world racer generally never asks the the player to engage with the same level competitive control as they do on a proper race track or course.
In any case, I think it's past generations' technological limits of platform performance and developer tools that keeps this idea alive and still possibly true. I expect most if not all racers this generation to go open road/world due to player expectations, sales successes of those games, and the general trending of all game software, regardless of genre, while the traditional menu-connected approaches start to feel very antiquated and fall by the wayside pretty fast. As well, I'm keeping in mind that Evolution is not a small studio and is backed by big money and Sony on the most popular new console available. Whatever concerns there could be about studio size and open world game development seem to not really factor in with racers on the level of Drive Club.
It's mildly disconcerting that you use nearly the King Baldwin avatar that mod, Zeliard, does. Keep thinking it's him.
thelastword
Banned
I enjoyed Burnout Paradise as well, I have the platinum on the PS3, but it wasn't the P2P racing that hooked me but the stunts and the other million fun things you could do in paradise city, both solo and multiplayer. Tbh, racing in the city was my least favourite thing to do in paradise city.
I'm sure it could have been, but it would be an entirely different game than it is now. I believe that it's pure racing would have suffered and it would not be as focused a racer as it is now. There are too many elements/variables that enters the fray in open world racing games that in no way mimics professional racing. Driveclub goes against that grain.lukeskymac said:
You must also be aware that two of the games I mentioned were open world and also 60fps, "Burnout Paradise and Driver San Francisco" , they were also two of the sharpest and smoother handling games I've played, but they were not the best games that mimicked racing.
Stillmatic
Member
When I buy a racing game it's to race as if I'm watching V8`s, Formula 1 etc. To get the same feel of learning a track completely to be competitive. I don't feel I can do that with an open world racer, so I really hope it doesn't become a trend.
MightyHedgehog
Member
If the tracks and courses are just as well-designed, why not? It's just that it resides within an open road/world lobby rather than simply accessed by menus. Many open world racers offer fast travel options to go directly to the starting line and set of options for all racing needs. If the game offers this, it's simply an different way of offering access to the same competitive and tightly-designed race events while people who do want to muck about and take part in more freeform racing activities may do so at their leisure. I don't see the issue especially since the race world data is all resident and active, allowing little to no loading between races since everything is in memory and already running.
serversurfer
Member
I just checked and all of the Motorstorm games ran at 30 Hz, and those games kicked all ass, so there's that.
boredandlazy
Member
Anyone up for some Driveclub?
RadarScope1
Member
Sounds good. Hoping for a good experience. Will try it right away with it hits Plus.
I just drool
The Shogun
Banned
Got a chance to play this today. Its for sure a solid racer but I was slightly underwhelmed with both gameplay and graphically.
Its looks good and plays solid and idk I think I was expecting too much with the way some GIFs make it look. Could just be the track I was playing on as well though. The time of day change while racing is pretty slick though.
Its looks good and plays solid and idk I think I was expecting too much with the way some GIFs make it look. Could just be the track I was playing on as well though. The time of day change while racing is pretty slick though.
Cthulhu_Steev
Member
No, they both gave you a playable level select screen - and if you lingered on either enemy ships or bees swarms would hurry you along. They were no different to choosing a track in a time-limited menu using the steering wheel.
MightyHedgehog
Member
My point for referencing those games was that instead of having the player use the controller input to select using an onscreen menu or set of tiles to determine the next stage or event, they used the exact same in-game controls and audio-visuals to do the same. It's an important distinction because it gave players an immediate opportunity to learn the same controls that would be used in the game proper, subject to many if not all of the same challenge elements, like gravity, weapon fire, and shields in Gravitar or the kick/speed button or jumping and rotations in 720°. The enemy ships and bees of both of those arcade games obviously herded players into action because they're arcade games which try to get more coins out of the player and certainly cannot let them linger on a single credit while they needed to constantly monetize their operation by keeping play sessions brief. Home games have no such pressure since they already have your money upfront, but instead of a stick, they use carrots in the form of other gameplay opportunities constantly coming within view of the player to incentivize spending time in the larger world that connects various race events that make up the major points of your progress in the game's campaign. In other words, the open world structure is a gamified menu that keeps the interface and controls consistent from major challenges to simply choosing the next one to take on. In a racer, this gives you lots of chances to get better at what you already would be striving to in the actual race events without the pressures of time and placement or risk of failure. By the time you get to the race, you're already accustomed to your car's handling, your tuning, your new parts, and how to control works in general...you're warmed up and ready by the time you're placed in the starting grid.
Can you elaborate, please?
Callibretto
Member
If they intend to make DC a very social driving game, than they better just keep updating the game via dlc. If the core driving gameplay is solid, I don't need sequel, just give me timely update of tracks and cars while the majority of the people on evolution to make motorstorm.
I drool at the tought of motorstorm on ps4, what I love about motorstorm series, multiple path to take for various vehicle, destruction, and dirt. Give those a ps4 coat of paint, add weather, vehicle customization and cockpit view and it's probably the perfect arcade racing game for me.
I drool at the tought of motorstorm on ps4, what I love about motorstorm series, multiple path to take for various vehicle, destruction, and dirt. Give those a ps4 coat of paint, add weather, vehicle customization and cockpit view and it's probably the perfect arcade racing game for me.
I liked some of the race routes in Paradise & Most Wanted, but I generally preferred Hot Pursuit for being able to select your race rather than having to drive to it. Again tho, route quality varied.
Much prefer selecting a track, going & starting. One if the things I'm most impressed with are the load times for DC - being able to go from menu to race in 10-15s is awesome.
Also, Hedgehog - paragraphs dude!
Much prefer selecting a track, going & starting. One if the things I'm most impressed with are the load times for DC - being able to go from menu to race in 10-15s is awesome.
Also, Hedgehog - paragraphs dude!
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
It just looks so natural:
I still remember many saying it wouldn't look as good as the early vids:
The vid in the OP destroys that notion!
I still remember many saying it wouldn't look as good as the early vids:
The vid in the OP destroys that notion!
MightyHedgehog
Member
Sorry, had way too much caffeine yesterday and was just typing stream-of-consciousness-style. Had no time to think of blocking out thoughts and larger related points let alone consider readability.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
So... when is Sony opening the pre-order for DRIVECLUB? I mean, less than a month from release, and there's no way to preorder it on PSN yet... wtf?
Insane Metal
Gold Member
farmerboy
Member
My heart just skipped a beat thinking about it. Surely they have to do this.