Doom 1 > Heretic > Doom 2 > Blood > Shadow Warrior > Duke Nukem 3D > Hexen
Dem's fightin words
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Doom vs. Duke Nukem 3D
- Thread starter omg_mjd
- Start date
Dem's fightin words
But what about the projector room in the cinema? From the theatre, you can see into both the room and the corridor below it. There is also a bridge at the end of that level, I believe.
Earthpainting
Member
I'm probably not the best judge on this, since Doom 1 and 2 (and Blood) are guaranteed to leave me with a headache after a playing session. That kind of makes the choice pretty easy to me. I didn't get to sample the full breath of what they have to offer. Still, DN3D feels like a meatier game with more variety, and more elaborate, creative and interactive level design. Its levels had visible landmarks and points of reference, making them feel a lot less like the metal hedge-maze design of the Doom games. On the flip side, Duke Nukem is eye-rollingly cheezy and juvenile, and its sense of humour and style is completely lost on me.
Didn't play either of them until more than a decade after their release, if that makes a difference.
Didn't play either of them until more than a decade after their release, if that makes a difference.
Can You name any Japanese PC game from that era? I personally cant.
SHARP X68000, I saw one back then and it was awesome.
Also Konami MSX because Metal Gear lol.
Mato
Member
Doom 2 probably.
Really enjoying the reignited gaf interest in Doom lately. Last year I played through SNES Doom again after many years and finally managed to beat the third episode. Now re-playing it with the Zandronum mod. I can't get enought of this game. The gameplay is actually addicting. I play for half an hour, get motion sickness and quit. A few hours later I'm yearning for more. The first episode is iconic, I love it. Also : white sky > red sky.
Really enjoying the reignited gaf interest in Doom lately. Last year I played through SNES Doom again after many years and finally managed to beat the third episode. Now re-playing it with the Zandronum mod. I can't get enought of this game. The gameplay is actually addicting. I play for half an hour, get motion sickness and quit. A few hours later I'm yearning for more. The first episode is iconic, I love it. Also : white sky > red sky.
MrCunningham
Member
Hideo Kojima was strictly a Japanese PC developer before he moved over to consoles. Metal Gear 1, 2, Snatcher, SD Snatcher and Policenauts were all made for the MSX2 or PC98 computers. But there was a Japanese computer scene, MSX, PC88, PC98, Sharp X68000 an other machines, and I wouldn't surprised if there were a few Japanese first person type shooters made back then.
And as much as I like Doom, I am going to have to say Duke Nuken 3D. Viva la Build engine!
Gotta be Duke3D due to the level design, and creative interactivity of the environments (which at the time was unprecedented).
Episode 1 of Duke3D has some of the best level design of all time.
Also, I thought Doom 2's level design was a big step down from the original's (too gimicky, not as atmospheric).
Duke3D > Doom > Doom II.
Episode 1 of Duke3D has some of the best level design of all time.
Also, I thought Doom 2's level design was a big step down from the original's (too gimicky, not as atmospheric).
Duke3D > Doom > Doom II.
Off the top of my head, all of Falcom's output. And your ignorance of a topic doesn't make your statement fact.
Dictator93
Member
I think people are confusing great level realism and theming (Duke) for "level design" which complements gameplay (all those small spaces in Duke are quite oddly contrary to dukes movement, also the enemy attack pattern and the way they damage duke is generally completely uninspired). Inspite of the middle half of Doom II's levels being jsut odd at points, its beastiary, weaponry, and some levels (Dead Simple is so cool) are above Duke (inspite of how much I love duke).
hobblygobbly
Member
Doom series had superior level design in every single way. That alone made me love Doom more.
dr guildo
Member
Doom2's Trick'n Traps level :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zwrh-NtpNg
A masterpiece of leveldesign
The end of this level is very sadistic !
RedAssedApe
Banned
duke3d. multiplayer was so much fun. anyone else who used to play on TEN?
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Whenever I try to play duke I can't get into it. Doom still holds up for me using GZdoom and Brutal Doom.
JustAnotherOtaku
Member
Duke Nukem 3D is fun, but Doom overall. No contest.
eot
Banned
Heh, that's actually a perfect analogy
Why would you do that?
Member
I never could get into Doom.
I sort of grew up with Duke 3D and especially Chex Quest (yeah, I know, lol). I later played Doom, Blood, and Shadow Warrior when I got older, and I really think Doom is my least favorite of all those games.
I think it's mostly the locales. Doom doesn't feel like there's a whole lot of variety. Duke 3D, on the other hand, has you going through movie theaters, night clubs, prisons, canyons, alien spaceships, human spaceships in outer space, a shipping boat, cities half submerged in water (with changing water levels, IIRC), amusement parks, an active train line... And so on.
Duke 3D was also much more vertical. Jetpacks could take you anywhere, as could swimming. It made for much more interesting levels like the canyon.
Doom has fewer weapons, but they mostly all feel useful. Duke 3D has more weapons (better ones, too... Yay Pipebomb!), but I sometimes feel like some are just novelty weapons. Shadow Warrior is much worse in that regard.
I don't remember the enemies from Doom, but I can say Duke 3D had a nice variety of enemies, and the audio cues to match. "Hehehehee... Suck it down..." was truly the original Witch cry for me.
I sort of grew up with Duke 3D and especially Chex Quest (yeah, I know, lol). I later played Doom, Blood, and Shadow Warrior when I got older, and I really think Doom is my least favorite of all those games.
I think it's mostly the locales. Doom doesn't feel like there's a whole lot of variety. Duke 3D, on the other hand, has you going through movie theaters, night clubs, prisons, canyons, alien spaceships, human spaceships in outer space, a shipping boat, cities half submerged in water (with changing water levels, IIRC), amusement parks, an active train line... And so on.
Duke 3D was also much more vertical. Jetpacks could take you anywhere, as could swimming. It made for much more interesting levels like the canyon.
Doom has fewer weapons, but they mostly all feel useful. Duke 3D has more weapons (better ones, too... Yay Pipebomb!), but I sometimes feel like some are just novelty weapons. Shadow Warrior is much worse in that regard.
I don't remember the enemies from Doom, but I can say Duke 3D had a nice variety of enemies, and the audio cues to match. "Hehehehee... Suck it down..." was truly the original Witch cry for me.
This. It's my goto FPS, still. But even vanilla Doom is a timeless masterpiece. Duke3D is only getting nostalgia votes, I doubt anyone really still plays it on a regular basis
Vincent Grayson
Member
I have a hard time thinking of them as contemporaries. I associate Duke Nukem 3D with Quake in terms of games to compare it to, since they came out less than 6 months apart.
Doom is the definitive progenitor and in some ways, king, of FPS games in my mind. There are others that came before, but they didn't have the same impact, or the same incredible meshing of design and music and gameplay that made Doom amazing.
Duke 3D is its own beast, and I loved the hell out of it, but by the time I played it, it was only a few months before Quake would take over my life, leaving Duke sad and alone, and unplayed. It doesn't help that I never knew anyone into Duke 3D once online multiplayer became a thing with Quake, so Quake was always my go-to MP game, while Duke remained an awesome SP game.
Doom is the definitive progenitor and in some ways, king, of FPS games in my mind. There are others that came before, but they didn't have the same impact, or the same incredible meshing of design and music and gameplay that made Doom amazing.
Duke 3D is its own beast, and I loved the hell out of it, but by the time I played it, it was only a few months before Quake would take over my life, leaving Duke sad and alone, and unplayed. It doesn't help that I never knew anyone into Duke 3D once online multiplayer became a thing with Quake, so Quake was always my go-to MP game, while Duke remained an awesome SP game.
thechristoph
Sir!
Doom is like Super Mario Bros 1, and Duke is like Super Mario Bros 3.
Doom laid the groundwork and the basis for those to come afterward, whereas Duke takes cues from the former and builds on them. You might want to play Duke a little more for the exciting stuff it brought to the table, but it doesn't invalidate Doom. Doom is still just as clean of an experience as it was before Duke.
Doom laid the groundwork and the basis for those to come afterward, whereas Duke takes cues from the former and builds on them. You might want to play Duke a little more for the exciting stuff it brought to the table, but it doesn't invalidate Doom. Doom is still just as clean of an experience as it was before Duke.
Purple Haze
Member
I'm Doom guy.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Duke Nukem has a few good opening levels and thats it. There's a reason people only seem to have nostalgia for those opening city levels, and none of those straight up awful space chapters. Its got funny little bits of interactivity with the environment, but that novelty wore off ages ago. And its attempts of humor are just straight up lame.
Doom is the GOAT first person shooter
Doom is the GOAT first person shooter
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Plus, it helps that Doom still has an active modding community. Duke 3D does have some decent mods, but it's just not getting played these days.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
The Sonic 1 = Duke 3D comparison was so apt, right down to its first level being easily the best before falling off a cliff
Icefire1424
Member
Assuming some weird situation where the only two games I could play on my Steam account were Duke 3D or Doom II...
...I would play Duke. Guess that settles it.
...I would play Duke. Guess that settles it.
Lionel Richie
Member
Unfair choice OP, both are absolute masterpieces. If I had to choose, I'd probably go with Duke 3D. The level design is unreal.
MiguelItUp
Member
I can't really compare the two in my mind to be honest. Sure they're both FPSs, but that's about as close as they get. DOOM is also an original staple for the entire FPS genre, so it's hard to put Duke 3D over it for that soul purpose alone. Not to mention I personally enjoy DOOM's aesthetic more.
MrCunningham
Member
Personally, I think Duke's level design strikes a good balance between single player, deathmatch and co-op. The map designers did take all three of these aspects into account. They are a little more versatile in this respect, IMO.
Both games do have different philosophies applied to their level design however...
Duke does rely more on platforming and vertical space. It makes good use of claustrophobic environments and has emphasis on large open areas with a lot of vertical and horizontal movement. It also uses teleportation tricks to achieve under water swimming environments and fake room over room placement. There is also more reliance on scripted events, lots of triggers on each map that activates destructible environments with holes in walls and floors, altered terrain, user controlled lighting and traps that activate monster ambushes. This could either be a good or bad thing depending on preferences. Doom did use some of these things too, but not on the same level as Duke.
Duke does go a little more out of the way to showcase every exploitable trick in the Build engine. People do rag on the space levels the most, but there are actually some good maps in this episode, like Lunar Reactor.
I find Duke's level design is much closer to Quake's than Doom's. Quake used id Software's first polygon 3D engine and the level designers put a lot of emphasis on vertical space, rooms over rooms, objects over objects (bridges, etc), and even added under water sections like Duke. Quake was a showcase of using real polygon 3D space as apposed to the room over room/ teleportation fakery of the Build engine.
Doom's level design keeps things a little more simple and horizontal. There is some emphasis on varying degrees of elevation (something Wolf 3D did not have) but the maps do mostly stay focused on the horizontal element. Doom's maps are also much more focused on monster placement which results in the gameplay being combat oriented. But there is also a nice balance between closed in corridors and nice open areas as well. Doom's maps don't rely on additional gimmicks like Duke does. Simpler, yet highly effective.
I do think Doom's enemies are better overall and a lot more aggressive and better designed than Dukes. But Duke's enemy set isn't bad by any means and I do think they have a charm of their own.
I actually like the weapon sets in both of these games, but for completely different reasons. I think an apt comparison would be like comparing the weapons in Unreal Tournament to Quake III's. There's more wackiness in UT's weapons, while QIII keeps it simple. But as I said somewhere else before, I think Duke's weapons do have great uses for both multiplayer and single player and they do let you get a bit creative and crafty with them.
Doom's weapons are strictly balanced and each weapon does serve a purpose.
Overall I do lean to Duke more than Doom, because that is just how I am. But I do respect Doom.
ChamplooJones
Formerly Momotaro
FOH with this nonsense.
If I HAD to order them, it would probably be this as well. But only if I had to. They're all fantastic.
This is just plain not true.
kaiju
Member
Wrong. The Megaton edition released earlier this year on Steam, PS3 and Vita. Great port too. I'd say it's still going strong.
https://youtu.be/mppMbdpYqDs
Bull. The megaton edition was on plus a couple months ago, and I have been regularly playing it since.
Doom is a historically important game for a lot of different reasons, and Duke 3D built off that success to become historically significant in its own right -- but for entirely different reasons. Comparing them is kind of like comparing peanut butter and jelly; you can have them separately, but why the hell would you want to? They're both landmark titles; one shows you what could be done with great tech and a focus on action, and the other mirrors that showing what can be done with great character and a focus on interaction. People are still trying to figure out how to mesh those two extremes, and I'd argue they haven't found perfect success there.
I can't imagine them competing for the same prize because I play both for vastly different reasons. On one day, only Doom can scratch that itch. On another, Doom has no chance to do what Duke 3D does for me.
If I had to reduce it down to 'what have I played more' -- which is not, in my mind, a true metric of which I think is better (I have played Doom 3 more than Half-Life 2, but prefer HL2) -- then the answer is Duke Nukem 3D. If only because there's enough of the heart and soul of Doom in Duke 3D that I feel like if I want bits and pieces of both experiences, Duke 3D provides that. The reason it provides that is because it stands on the shoulders of Doom to do so; something Doom can't do, and that's one of the reasons it's so damn historic.
I can't imagine them competing for the same prize because I play both for vastly different reasons. On one day, only Doom can scratch that itch. On another, Doom has no chance to do what Duke 3D does for me.
If I had to reduce it down to 'what have I played more' -- which is not, in my mind, a true metric of which I think is better (I have played Doom 3 more than Half-Life 2, but prefer HL2) -- then the answer is Duke Nukem 3D. If only because there's enough of the heart and soul of Doom in Duke 3D that I feel like if I want bits and pieces of both experiences, Duke 3D provides that. The reason it provides that is because it stands on the shoulders of Doom to do so; something Doom can't do, and that's one of the reasons it's so damn historic.