Zombie James
Banned
I played the living shit out of Duke 3D back in day, way more than Doom. I enjoyed the level designs a lot more.
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Doom vs. Duke Nukem 3D
- Thread starter omg_mjd
- Start date
Truth bombs be droppin'.
I love Quake but it's in another league
(or should I say, another dimension? Gag.).
Maybe I should've made the thread about 2.5D shooters in general though. Don't want to leave games like Blood and Marathon out in the cold.
There's a mod for Duke weapons in Doom. Thanks Zdoom forums!
Let's not forget about Redneck Rampage. That one was pretty good too.
Nam was basically a Duke 3D mod.
Never played TekWar or Powerslave.
We can all agree the Witchhaven games stunk.
TekWar is t he greatest game of all time
DidntKnowJack
Member
For me its Doom.
Both games were a lot of fun, but Doom consumed me for quite awhile. Duke did not. Shit, I played Doom on PC, Playstation, SNES, and N64 (though not in that order).
Both games were a lot of fun, but Doom consumed me for quite awhile. Duke did not. Shit, I played Doom on PC, Playstation, SNES, and N64 (though not in that order).
SpoonyBard
Banned
This means that Wolfestein 3D is Super Mario 1? I'm ok with this, but I still prefer Sonic.
Ultima Underworld did first person with real 3D levels before ID managed same with Quake, and it did it before Doom. So while Doom was a nice evolutionary step from Wolf 3D, it was not exactly as revolutionary as people think. It was fast, simple and fun tho, so people are more familar with it than Ultima Underworld.
Might want to get on that: https://powerslaveex.wordpress.com/
Console version was far superior to the PC version.
This guy knows what is up. Blood was such an amazing game.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Blood is the FPS GOAT. I loved seeing references to horror movies and Lovecraft all over the place.
MrCunningham
Member
When comparing the soundtracks to these games, I think I have to give the nod to Doom. Doom has far more iconic music tracks that are pure heavy metal (and yes, I do realize there's a lot of plagiarism present in Doom's soundtrack). There are also some nice moody pieces to help round out the soundtrack.
Episode 1 tracks:
E1M2 - The Imps Song - Bobby Prince
E1M3 - Dark Halls - Bobby Prince
E1M4 - Kitchen Ace - Bobby Prince
E1M5 - Suspense - Bobby Prince
E1M9 - Hiding the Secrets - Bobby Prince
Episode 2 tracks:
E2M1 - I Sawed the Demons - Bobby Prince
E2M2 - The Demons from Adrians Pen - Bobby Prince
E2M3 - Intermission from Doom - Bobby Prince
E2M6 - Sinister - Bobby Prince
Episode 3 tracks:
E3M1 - Untitled (Mouth For War) - Bobby Prince and Pantera [/s]
E3M3 - Deep Into the Code - Bobby Prince
Duke's soundtrack is actually really subdued for the most part, with music that just hides itself in the background to create a mood and atmosphere. Duke has a lot of military styled march tracks with heavy drum beats, as well as pieces that sound like they were inspired by John Carpenter movies. It is a great soundtrack in context of the game but not the greatest listen on its own. Lee Jackson contributes a lot of good things to episode 2 and episode 4 along with Duke's iconic Grabbag theme song.
Another thing I have to give Duke 3D credit for is that the soundtrack has a lot more originality to it than Doom's.
Episode 1 tracks:
E1L1 - Stalker - Lee Jackson
E1L2 - Death Toll - Bobby Prince
E1L3 - The City Streets - Bobby Prince
E1L4 - Water World - Bobby Prince
Episode 2 tracks:
E2L1 - Military Conquests - Lee Jackson
E2L2 - Space Storm - Bobby Prince
E2L4 - RoboCreeping - Lee Jackson
E2L5 - Stalag 3-D - Lee Jackson
E2L7 - Alienz - Bobby Prince
E2L8 - Plasma - Lee Jackson
Episode 3 tracks:
E3L1 - In Hiding - Bobby Prince
E3L2 - Going After the Fat Commander - Bobby Prince
E3L4 - Subway - Bobby Prince
E3L5 - Invader - Bobby Prince
E3L8 - Lords of L.A. - Bobby Prince
E3L9 - Urban Jungle - Lee Jackson
Episode 4 tracks:
E4L2 - Preparation D - Lee Jackson
E4L3- Baked Goods - Lee Jackson
E4L5 - Lemon Chillllllllllllllllllll - Lee Jackson
E4L6 - Pissed Office Box - Lee Jackson
E4L10 - Departure - Lee Jackson
Bobby Prince and Lee Jackson were gods during the DOS Shareware era.
FrontalMonk
Banned
Doom > Duke3d > Doom 2.
Duke is a great game, and I sank many, many hours into it, but not like Doom. Doom 2's level design wasn't as solid across the board as Doom's, but there were some pretty great levels that were great because they were so off the wall (the gantlet, dead simple, barrels o fun, etc.) By the same token, Duke3d has some awesome levels, and then some...not so awesome levels.
Duke is a great game, and I sank many, many hours into it, but not like Doom. Doom 2's level design wasn't as solid across the board as Doom's, but there were some pretty great levels that were great because they were so off the wall (the gantlet, dead simple, barrels o fun, etc.) By the same token, Duke3d has some awesome levels, and then some...not so awesome levels.
Juke Joint Jezebel
Member
Duke Nukem 3D easily for me, better level design, aesthetic and overall gameplay. Plus a great sense of humour.
alf717
Member
I have to go with Duke Nukem. My first Duke Nukem game was Duke Nukem 64. I remember just being blown away by the games atmosphere. Something about the quietness and listening to planes fly by or exploring caves and looking for secrets was really fun for me when playing this on the N64. I also had a blast playing three player multi player with my two neighborhood buddies.
My first experience with Doom was the 32x port which I actually enjoyed a lot. I remember my buddy had rented the PS1 port which was cool too. I have to say it was most likely Doom 64 that got me into the other games.
My first experience with Doom was the 32x port which I actually enjoyed a lot. I remember my buddy had rented the PS1 port which was cool too. I have to say it was most likely Doom 64 that got me into the other games.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
While I prefer Duke over Doom, Doom definitely has the better soundtrack, exactly because it blatantly rips off hard rock and metal songs. Gunning down demons to MIDI ripoffs of Metallica and AC/DC is gud times, gud times.
Fleshfeast
Member
I liked both, and spent a lot of time with both. I felt like there were a few things that Duke 3D did that kept me from enjoying the game as much, in some cases due to difficulty.
I like Blood more than either though. Both the flow and locales of the levels, the variety and usefulness of the weapons, the dark horror theme, the movie and pop culture references... All of this made for a game I just have to put above the others.
- The assault trooper's projectiles fly way faster than the imp fireball, making him a tougher introductory enemy.
- I'd swear the pig cops shotgun does more damage than the shotgunner zombies in doom, but I have no idea if this is accurate.
- Duke 3D was built with verticality in mind, which I really didn't like because of the stretching that happens when you look up or down. I don't tend to get sick in 3D games, but this stretching is just enough to make me feel uneasy.
- The weapons feel like they weren't designed to fulfill specific roles, but just lots of cool ideas they threw in for variety. The shrink gun is conceptually cool, but why would I want to shrink them (forcing me to look at the ground to find/step on them, thus stretching the screen), when I could just kill them with another gun?
- Maybe I just spent too much time replaying the first episode (in both games), but in Duke I always felt like I was mostly just fighting Assault Troopers and Pig Cops. In the early levels at least, Doom felt like it had more enemy variety.
- What's with the handgun reload? It feels so arbitrary when you can't manually reload. Normally I'd reload between encounters, but duke always wants to do it when I need one more shot to kill a pig cop and have 8 health left.
- The general mood of Doom is just cooler to me (preference)
I like Blood more than either though. Both the flow and locales of the levels, the variety and usefulness of the weapons, the dark horror theme, the movie and pop culture references... All of this made for a game I just have to put above the others.
- Maybe, but they don't do much damage, and are incredibly weak and easy to interrupt.
- That's possible. It's a good idea to keep your distance from pig cops, use the environment to take cover when they're about to shoot, or kill them quickly (on regular difficulties, I believe one good blast from your own shotgun + a mighty foot will take them out)
- That was actually fixed with the megaton edition, I believe.
- The shrinker is designed for tougher enemies, to incapacitate them quickly before they can cause damage. The Assault Commander (flying fat guys that shoot rockets) in particular can be taken out with a single blast from the shrinker. Plus, shrunken enemies can't attack, which gives you some time to deal with other enemies. I do think that there are too many enemies that are immune to it though.
- The limited number of enemies in Duke's first episode stems from the fact that the whole first episode was released for free as a taster for the whole game. They needed something enticing for players to want to buy the full experience, so they withheld half of the weapons and enemies from the first episode. I mean the only non boss enemy that's introduced after episode 2 is the shark. Same goes for weapons, not counting the one weapon & one enemy introduced in the expansion pack.
- I dunno, I guess they thought it'd be cool. You have to reload the Uzis in Shadow Warrior too (although switching between single and dual wield resets the reload count and kind of acts as a manual reload).
Shadow Hog
Member
Without mods: Duke 3D's levels are generally more memorable and more fun all-around. It kinda drags during Episode 2, although even that one has its ups, but Episodes 1, 3 and 4 are basically entirely great. Plus it's much more vertically-oriented, allowing for more interesting layouts, and its heavy focus on explosive weaponry is just fun to dick around with, provided you've got the space to do so without blowing yourself up. That said, Doom's still no slouch, although Doom 2 has too many stages I feel genuine reluctance to even begin slogging through when I reach them that it's tough to recommend that one vanilla.
With mods: Doom 2. Doom 2, Doom 2, Doom 2. Like, seriously, is this even a question? Doom 2 all the way. The weaponset and bestiary are pretty much perfectly balanced, and custom map sets take full advantage of that in ways that even Doom 2's mapset itself didn't. Source ports enable tweaking every last damn thing you could imagine, to the point where you can just slap Duke straight into Doom 2, complete with all his arsenal, and have the best of both worlds. Doom 2.
With mods: Doom 2. Doom 2, Doom 2, Doom 2. Like, seriously, is this even a question? Doom 2 all the way. The weaponset and bestiary are pretty much perfectly balanced, and custom map sets take full advantage of that in ways that even Doom 2's mapset itself didn't. Source ports enable tweaking every last damn thing you could imagine, to the point where you can just slap Duke straight into Doom 2, complete with all his arsenal, and have the best of both worlds. Doom 2.
My understanding is that Build actually DOES allow for room-over-room... in fact, it allows for multiple rooms occupying the same space entirely! (Hence E2L11, "Lunatic Fringe".) The rub is that both rooms can't be visible at the same time, or else bad things happen. I forget if this limitation merely means in the same column of the screen, or if you can't have them both on the screen at all, even if they're horizontally separated, but it's something like that.
I know this is in the context of Build engine games, so I'll just say: don't bother with Powerslave, it's really archaic (no proper mouselook, no control rebinds, timing is messed up...). Try the console versions instead; Kaiser of Doom 64 EX fame remade the PS1 version for PC recently (and while I prefer the Saturn version, it's still very much worth a play).
Dangerblade
Member
I love both, but Doom is probably my favourite game of all time. I could actually play it forever.
Same for Doom though. But then there were only two other types of enemy that were introduced in the following episodes, Cacodemons and Lost Souls right? (not counting bosses). Doom 2 had more of course, but that wasn't shareware.
The thing with Doom and mods is that its inherent modability was a designed-in feature of the game - so when considering the game as a whole it's one of the things I always consider to be intrinsic to any assessment of its quality.
Wikipedia said:
Shadow Hog
Member
Technically there was also the Pig-cop Tank, although that might've been exclusive to Atomic Edition.
Right, yeah. I forgot about that guy. Another Atomic Edition addition. Ep4. Only.
Shadow Hog
Member
Oh, and then the annoying aliens that can shrink you and bleed harmful acid pools that stick around long after they've passed on. Hate those guys.
Fleshfeast
Member
I never really did much with the Doom engine, but I messed around with BUILD a bit. Yes, you could stack rooms, but only if you couldn't see both at the same time. The spiral staircase in E1M1, I do'nt think has a teleporter, it's just so long and curved that you can't see both ends. Elevators and holes (like the manhole in E1M1) were teleporters. Aslo, yes, you can have two rooms take up the same physical space, but trying to edit that in the overhead view is a nightmare. But then trying to edit stacked rooms is as well.
No, the Doom games came out before Duke did.
I know--I said "implement" not invent.
I mean did Duke 3D also do something similar?I had a lot of fun playing Duke 3d over dial up with my bud, and messing around in the build editor when I was younger, but it is several rungs lower than the Doom games to me.
I still often play through the Doom games, I haven't touched Duke 3d in years, and have no desire to do so.
I still often play through the Doom games, I haven't touched Duke 3d in years, and have no desire to do so.
Battlesmurf
Member
In most ways, yes. Didn't like that guns didn't have ammunition but "power" that you filled by picking up floaty things. Great game though. I loved the PC one too.
Nice thread too, but I can't pick- I love all that is Doom and I feel like the mod community did more with it, but Duke was absolutely amazing for me at the time. I hold out hope that someday we'll play some of the other builds of DNF.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
Doom II was awesome: cranked up the run-and-gun arcadey (for lack of a better term) style of the first one.
But Duke 3D was one of my very first 3D shooters that felt like a real 3D world (Strife being the other one; same year). Kind of a different game, in my opinion. It was a vibrant world. Doom II was just a badass world.
Imma go with Duke 3D on this one.
But Duke 3D was one of my very first 3D shooters that felt like a real 3D world (Strife being the other one; same year). Kind of a different game, in my opinion. It was a vibrant world. Doom II was just a badass world.
Imma go with Duke 3D on this one.