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Driveclub's microtransactions explained, can pay to unlock cars early

xAngelSerranox

Neo Member
This seems like a much better alternative to cheat codes for a multiplayer game. If there were codes the game would be broken because no one would play through the game naturally and people would say the game was too shallow. For single player games I do not approve of this because cheats do not effect the community at large.
With this option you have to choose whether you have the money or time to get what you want. Now that I am older and have less time to play these options seem more reasonable.
With that said the people complaining about Forza really don't have a leg to stand with in my opinion. Forza 5 was my first Forza game and I rarely play sim racers since I have never been that good at them. After 37 hours I have earned over 6 million, have about a well over 20 cars in my garage and have plenty of credits because even with digital money I am super cheap.
 

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
For me, I really liked learning each car I've owned so I have been taking my time. With $4 mill in currency I would have no problem buying several of the more exotic cars a couple times over.

We may have different play styles I guess.

I guess we do, i like to play racing games the same way i play fighting games. I pick fighters at random at first, have fun with them, when i find one that i like i use him/her more then the others. I'am really not a fan of unlocking stuff outside of stickers, colors, skins etc.
 
So is there any racing game that won't have these kinds of micro transactions. I won't ever use them and it'll hae to hinge on how they implement the progression but it's seems to be the new standard
 

xAngelSerranox

Neo Member
I guess we do, i like to play racing games the same way i play fighting games. I pick fighters at random at first, have fun with them, when i find one that i like i use him/her more then the others. I'am really not a fan of unlocking stuff outside of stickers, colors, skins etc.
So you are saying that they should balance the game to the point where a Civic can beat a Ferrari? That is why fighting games have all characters unlocked. You need to be able to compete with whichever character suits your play style.
 
What i gather from your post is that Forza 5 has no arcade mode where you get to grab a super car on any track and just have fun with it the first time you fire up the game?
If it is so - thats shit and only done to sell micro transactions. These are racing games and not story driven rpgs. :'(

But the rumble triggers do tell a story!
And Forza proper is NOT an arcade racer, that would be Horizons. To me the beauty of Forza proper and GT is learning the cars and the very tactile way that Forza 5 has done it (rumble triggers) makes that game a blast.

Sorry for getting somewhat off topic.
 

Lima

Member
What i gather from your post is that Forza 5 has no arcade mode where you get to grab a super car on any track and just have fun with it the first time you fire up the game?
If it is so - thats shit and only done to sell micro transactions. These are racing games and not story driven rpgs. :'(

No there is free play and all cars are available for you to drive. In short stop making assumptions about a game you haven't played.
 

Gestault

Member
Eh, the focus on multiplayer and levelling has put me off now. I'm out.

Have you...heard of Driveclub? Honestly, the social aspect is right there in the title. This is how it was announced. That's not to say you have to find it appealing, but your tone makes it sound like this was sprung on you unexpectedly.
 

Gestault

Member
What i gather from your post is that Forza 5 has no arcade mode where you get to grab a super car on any track and just have fun with it the first time you fire up the game?
If it is so - thats shit and only done to sell micro transactions. These are racing games and not story driven rpgs. :'(

With respect, you could look into it without too much trouble before formulating your reactions based on your imagination. You can "rent" and race any car you want at this point for free play mode.
 

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
So you are saying that they should balance the game to the point where a Civic can beat a Ferrari? That is why fighting games have all characters unlocked. You need to be able to compete with whichever character suits your play style.
No, i may have expressed myself poorly. All i want is a way to play all of the cars in an "arcade" mode, meaning access to all cars and tracks on the spot. Something that is as it seems possible in Forza 5 as Lima pointed out. From the ongoing discussion i was under the impression that was not possible and you had to play countless of h to get some cars.

In a racing game there should of course be classes that determine what group of cars could drive against each other.

But the rumble triggers do tell a story!
And Forza proper is NOT an arcade racer, that would be Horizons. To me the beauty of Forza proper and GT is learning the cars and the very tactile way that Forza 5 has done it (rumble triggers) makes that game a blast.

Sorry for getting somewhat off topic.

I am sorry too. When i wrote "arcade" mode I meant what i wrote above.

No there is free play and all cars are available for you to drive. In short stop making assumptions about a game you haven't played.
Then i'm sorry for derailing. I dind't know you could race online/offline with all cars/track in free play.
 
Then i'm sorry for derailing. I dind't know you could race online/offline with all cars/track in free play.
You couldn't do this with all cars until recently. Its one of the changes Turn 10 has made to the game since launch, along with a bunch of in-game economy changes (increased payouts, lowered costs for cars, no double-paywall on DLC cars).
 

DR3AM

Member
Ahhh its going to suck when I play MP on Day 1 and people who purchased faster/better cars are going to rape me.
 

Reallink

Member
Well, that was/is not my experience with Forza 5. I have well over 10 cars in my garage (including the Lotus F1 car) and I have only put a bit more than 10 hours into the game so far.

To be specific, according to my Forza 5 Progress page in the Smartglass app I have:

11 hours played
Driver level 15
8497673 credits earned

8.5 million credits should be able to buy you more than 10 cars unless they are all the most expensive vehicles.

I've yet to be bugged once to make a microstransaction in Forza 5. It's an option on the car purchase screens, but never shows up otherwise.





Turn 10 changed that.





So much incorrect, misinformed stuff here.

@Reallink - I find it hard to believe you played Forza 5 30-40 hours and only had 10 cars. You said you played what one would call a basic progression (say from lower classes up and side events). It has to be an outright lie, if you followed the progression you say, that you only had 10 cars. Unless...you literally spent 100s of thousands (millions) on the most expensive cars possible right up front (based on your "progression" statement...one would assume you didn't).

I have less than 18 Hours in the game (including tuning/racing/painting) and have at least 50 cars in my garage (possibly more cars than the entirety of DC in that time) last I checked. I've not bought a single car with tokens (not even the free ones Turn 10 gave out). I've also not spent any of the $4 million or so they gave us way back near launch.

Turn 10 constantly gifts big money/rare cars and Credits (not tokens). Heck...just the gift cars could get one through a lot of events.

If your story is at all true.....it's the biggest "You're doing it wrong." I've ever seen.



So do I. I'd rather we didn't have microtransactions, but I'm ok with it as long as they aren't ever forced on us. (like running out of "gas credits" and needing them to drive a car...barf)

I'm fine with how Driveclub is doing it.

When I played the game in February, you earned ~30k credits per level up, and 7-11k credits per race win (assuming expert, most assists off, median manufacturer bonus) which factoring in the ridiculously long load times probably averages out to ~5 minutes a race. So if for example you raced 25 hours, at around 5 minute races, that's ~300 wins. This of course does not include time spent upgrading, turning, buying, navigating menus, etc... so you would in actuality be up to 30+ hours play time. Anyways, 300 x 9k credits avg = 2.7 million credits. I don't know where exactly 300 races would level you to, but probably somewhere around lvl 40-45. 43 x 30k = 1.29 million credits in leveling bonuses. Playing the class circuits straight (D>C>B>A>S>R>P), this puts your wins + level bonus @ 4 million credits. From my recollection an R-class car costs ~1.3 million and a P-class ~2.5 million, so buying the last 2 cars alone would effectively completely exhausts your 30 hours earning. I do not recall having to buy different cars to play through the class circuits, meaning a single D car would complete the D circuit, etc... so you would only need 8 cars (or less if you upgraded instead of purchasing) to complete the 8 main class circuits. A few of those 8 would also quality for side circuits as well (e.g. Roadster, Sedan, or Super Car), so I've got no idea how or why you're claiming 10 cars is impossible.

Every time I lay these numbers out, people (whom I can only assume are paid 'turfers) claim they make 20 million credits in 10 hours or some similarly preposterous shit. I have no idea how. Maybe if you live in the OT and do nothing but exploit the highest credit pay outs or special online events. All I can say is I put the disc in and attempted to play the SP campaign and that is what I earned.
 

xAngelSerranox

Neo Member
No, i may have expressed myself poorly. All i want is a way to play all of the cars in an "arcade" mode, meaning access to all cars and tracks on the spot. Something that is as it seems possible in Forza 5 as Lima pointed out. From the ongoing discussion i was under the impression that was not possible and you had to play countless of h to get some cars.

In a racing game there should of course be classes that determine what group of cars could drive against each other.



I am sorry too. When i wrote "arcade" mode I meant what i wrote above.


Then i'm sorry for derailing. I dind't know you could race online/offline with all cars/track in free play.
I see what you mean and completely agree that in an arcade/free play mode you should have access to all the cars without running into a paywall.
I still feel that there should be a cost in an online environment, whether it is time or money.
 

Gestault

Member
Every time I lay these numbers out, people (whom I can only assume are paid 'turfers) claim they make 20 million credits in 10 hours or some similarly preposterous shit. I have no idea how. Maybe if you live on the OT's and do nothing but exploit the highest credit pay outs or special online events. All I can say is I put the disc in and attempted to play the SP campaign and that is what I earned.

Friend, that's a crass accusation.
 
Every time I lay these numbers out, people (whom I can only assume are paid 'turfers) claim they make 20 million credits in 10 hours or some similarly preposterous shit.
Or as an alternative to the paid shill theory, like I've seen again and again they forget to mention they're VIPs (with bonus credits double the rate of gain) and Forza Rewards which pays you out based upon milestones reached in Forza 5, but also every other Forza game, including Horizon. So long time players get significant rewards.

Of course, none of those are true for new players, so the appearance of the grind and rate of rewards is entirely different.

But all that aside, grind only becomes a grind when your forward momentum is halted. When you feel you need to run X times through mode Y to get to what you actually want to do. That's a subjective call. One thing I would be certain of though, is that monetization people look at the rate of rewards and try to reach a goal of a certain number of players deciding upon buying these time-saver packs. How much those IAPs factor into establishing or changing the game's progression system is anybody's guess and it seems impossible to know at this point.

I'd definitely rather they didn't exist though. The whole idea of paying specifically to circumvent playing the game is a crappy solution to a problem that doesn't need to exist.
 

Marc

Member
So you pay extra money to unlock content you already bought... quicker.

That the sum of it?

C'mon Sony, really trying to hang people upside down and get all their loose change here. I can only assume this game's development pricetag is forcing these practices into the fore, as I have come to expect better from them.


It is great they listened about the digital purchase not being a lease, and I understand the delay has likely had a negative impact on potential sales and costs have gone upwards as a result. So I understand it from their point of view, as a consumer though I can't stand microtransactions. I really don't even like DLC, and bought 1 DLC in the whole of last gen as I prefer to get the entire game from the start and not piece mealed. I personally think it has a long term effect on gaming as a whole. In the EU we are already getting ripped off with RRP, to then try and leverage more money out of the consumer leaves a bad taste. Sooner or later those people might look at their wallets and feel ripped off and just give up on gaming and choose to do something else with their free time.

All in all, DriveClub has been handled really poorly by the money men and left poor devs like Rushy scrambling to make sense of it all. Obviously he can't exactly come out and deride his own employer no matter what his personal opinion is, so don't think it is fair to take the issue up with him directly. He gives a lot of his time to the gaming community and I really appreciate that.
 
It's acceptable if there are one or two cars that take an absurd amount of time to unlock. It's a trophy in its own way. As-long-as you can unlock the the vast VAST majority of the cars in a reasonable timeframe, then I have no problem with this approach.

Forza's problem being it was seemingly designed to be a lengthy grind to bore you into buying the cars you seek. Which is just all levels of shitty.
 

xAngelSerranox

Neo Member
It's just soooooo far from the reality, trying to paint the game as just raining down credits and cars. I can't really understand the motivation otherwise.
You have said that after 30-40 hours you have little to show for it in the way of cars which makes it hard for some to believe as well. I am not great at racing sims yet have made millions in credits in the same amount of time frame as yourself. This was my first Forza game so I did not get as much as others from the reward site as others but I got 300k when I signed up and went back maybe twice since for rewards. I never played for anything outside of the day one edition and yet have earned over 6 million and have plenty of cars. I did drive with assist mostly off except for the brake line since that has helped me to learn to play the game much better than when I started. I also only drove in the campaign and not online. I also only reran tracks to place higher but never set up anything to try and game the system. Can I ask how much you roughly made in your time? Maybe I was just easier to please with the amount of cars I was able to buy since i rarely play racers and you may have more experience and therefore expect more from them which is totally reasonable.
 

Duster

Member
It's not the micotransaction itself that gives me worry, it is whether the game was designed around it. If its going to take 500 hours of repetitive grinding to unlock something you can get for $5 then that would be shitty.

The grind is there because this is a video game, where unlocking content and a sense of progression is part of the experience.

As long as the grind isn't a hassle and remains fun that is.

And that's the issue I have with MTs, they could be purely optional, they could be designed with the best intention and they could have no effect on the grind whatsoever but in the back of my mind I'll always be wondering if the game would have been designed differently without them and that reduces my enjoyment.

It changes the whole mindset and approach to the game, I was once happy to grind through the early Gran Turismo titles in a crap used car but if the same game was released today with MTs to skip that stage I'd be less happy with the grind as I'd be questioning if it had been extended to squeeze more money out of me.

It's the same with games with lots of DLC, is it really additional content or was it something that was essentially cut from the game?

Those sort of business practices just put me off buying the game at all, which is sad as I rarely buy racing games now (the lack of local multi-player being another big factor).
Unless it's something I really want to play then I'll get it when it's dirt cheap or on PS+ which is ironic as they're amongst the reasons they included such "features" in the first place (in this case there's even a PS+ edition).
 

xAngelSerranox

Neo Member
And that's the issue I have with MTs, they could be purely optional, they could be designed with the best intention and they could have no effect on the grind whatsoever but in the back of my mind I'll always be wondering if the game would have been designed differently without them and that reduces my enjoyment.

It changes the whole mindset and approach to the game, I was once happy to grind through the early Gran Turismo titles in a crap used car but if the same game was released today with MTs to skip that stage I'd be less happy with the grind as I'd be questioning if it had been extended to squeeze more money out of me.

It's the same with games with lots of DLC, is it really additional content or was it something that was essentially cut from the game?

Those sort of business practices just put me off buying the game at all, which is sad as I rarely buy racing games now (the lack of local multi-player being another big factor).
Unless it's something I really want to play then I'll get it when it's dirt cheap or on PS+ which is ironic as they're amongst the reasons they included such "features" in the first place (in this case there's even a PS+ edition).
All signs seem to point to DC being handled correctly in that department. It seems more like the game is built around a solid progression system. As long as they deliver a quality experience that keeps people engaged (not the time sink barriers that F2P games have) and the money is only there to help people with limited time to play then I see nothing wrong with their approach.
 

Reallink

Member
You have said that after 30-40 hours you have little to show for it in the way of cars which makes it hard for some to believe as well. I am not great at racing sims yet have made millions in credits in the same amount of time frame as yourself. This was my first Forza game so I did not get as much as others from the reward site as others but I got 300k when I signed up and went back maybe twice since for rewards. I never played for anything outside of the day one edition and yet have earned over 6 million and have plenty of cars. I did drive with assist mostly off except for the brake line since that has helped me to learn to play the game much better than when I started. I also only drove in the campaign and not online. I also only reran tracks to place higher but never set up anything to try and game the system. Can I ask how much you roughly made in your time? Maybe I was just easier to please with the amount of cars I was able to buy since i rarely play racers and you may have more experience and therefore expect more from them which is totally reasonable.

I played straight through the class circuits (D>C>B>A>S>R>P) buying one of the better stat cars for each class up through A (at which point I had to upgrade the A car to S as I wouldn't have been able to afford an R and P class without grinding many many hours of side events). For example I think I bought the SLK for B class and ran it in the Roadster Event as as well. Did that with some of the other cars that happened to qualify for side circuits as well (e.g. the Saleen and ran it in the 2000's Super Car event). Like I said, I detailed specifically how many credits you earn winning races and leveling up. If my numbers are inaccurate and you in fact earn 60k per level, or 30k per race, please correct me, but as of February (no idea if or what they've changed since then) that was the progression for a non-VIP player without any kind of retroactive Forza.com rewards (of which I'm not even aware of the specifics of). Again, the problem is the R and P class cars were 4 million credits (combined), which would have also completely exhausted your 30-40 hours earnings (less whatever 300k sign up rewards you're talking about) so it sounds like you're virtually spot on with what I experienced. Difference being I presume you didn't buy any R and/or P and/or X class cars (X is 3 million alone, 7 million combined for all 3 classes) and instead bought a number of cheaper ones. My personal expectation with that kind of play time was to at least buy 2 or 3 cars in each class to tool around with, but that quickly becomes an impossibility. If you've never played any of the earlier GT's or even Forza's, F5's progression is waaaay out of line, many many times slower, and not by accident.
 

xAngelSerranox

Neo Member
I played straight through the class circuits (D>C>B>A>S>R>P) buying one of the better stat cars for each class up through A (at which point I had to upgrade the A car as I wouldn't have been able to afford an R and P class without grinding many many hours of side events). For example I think I bought the SLK for B class and ran it in the Roadster Event as as well. Did that with some of the other cars that happened to quality for side circuits as well (e.g. the Saleen and ran it in the 2000's Super Car event). Like I said, I detailed specifically how many credits you earn winning races and leveling up. If my numbers are inaccurate and you in fact earn 60k per level, or 30k per race, please correct me, but as of February (no idea if or what they've changed since then) that was the progression for a non-VIP player without any kind of retroactive Forza.com rewards (of which I'm not even aware of the specifics of). Again, the problem is the R and P class cars were 4 million credits (combined), which would have also completely exhausted your earnings (less whatever 300k sign up rewards you're talking about) so it sounds like you're virtually spot on with what I experienced. Difference being it sounds like you didn't buy an R and/or P and/or X class car and instead bought a number of cheaper ones.
Yes I didn't go too far off into the high end because even with the time I put in I knew that I could not handle the cars or the tracks just yet. The Forza rewards site is in your message in box and they give you credits for signing up and for in game progress. They also give for previous Forza game progress but I had none of that. It seems like you are a more advanced player than me and ran into a stiff reward curve at the end. I am used to that in loot games and just felt like that may been the norm for the high tier rewards games. I just never felt like things were beyond my grasp but I would imagine trying to build a collection of high end cars would be something that would take an insane amount of hours but may be reasonable for enthusiasts since I have put 18:19:54:57 into borderlands 2 (playing with my wife and son most of the time) and still haven't got everything there is.
The last racer before Forza I played was GT prologue and GT 1 before that and thought they were similar in progression but you would know more than me in that regard.
 

Sean*O

Member
Aaaaand my interest in this game just went way down. Tired of paying $60 bucks and not getting the full game unless I grind it for weeks or pay more to unlock it.

Game looks great, I just can't stand the whole microtransaction movement.
 
This is a problem because it was a problem with Forza 5.


Just another one of those microtransaction problems that people just 'forgot' was even a problem for no reason**


I'll just use my money to buy a Bugatti and destroy all Lambos in an S Class Race.
 

xAngelSerranox

Neo Member
Epic. *High Five*



Yes, but even providing the option to pay for them is a complete pisstake. They know there are some 'whale' morons out there that won't be able to help themselves.
How does it effect you if you don't take part in it. I love gaming as a hobby but sometimes am constrained time wise. This gives people like me a chance to actually play without feeling overwhelmed by time commitments. There are examples of games that charge for overpowered items or that put up unnecessary road blocks to try increase transactions but that doesn't seem to be the case here.
 
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