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early Man of Steel impressions
- Thread starter Salsa
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Secret Fawful
Member
It's the same reason I want to watch Popeye. I want to see Superman solve problems on a massive scale by doing some sort of incredible feat. It's a big draw to me.
But that's not what most people want from the character?
TheKaeptain
Banned
Well Woo hasn't made a good movie since the 90's and most of the people probably never saw his main body of work. It's all about exposure.
BadAss2961
Member
Skews perception like crazy. It's why just by reading GAF, you'd think that no one likes TDKR. But it'll still score high in a movie of the year thread.
Or on gaming side, you'd think that MGS4 was shit. But it'll win GAF's goty two times.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Superman is one of the most complex character in comics.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Bullshit "most of the people" never saw his main body of work. 1) who are "the people" and 2) what constitutes his "main body of work?" Even if you wanna say people only saw Broken Arrow and Face Off - there is a TON of slo-mo in both those movies. Not counting bonafide classics such as The Killer and Hard Boiled.
When they were made doesn't really have any bearing, either. In fact, being older works against whatever argument you're making.
This is a sidetrack that is sidetracking for the point of not appearing wrong on the internet, and is going further away from my main point, which is that Zack Snyder's crimes against cinema with the weapon of slow-motion are exaggerated, and not without lots of precedent.
Saying "Zack Snyder = Slo-Mo lol" isn't a criticism, it's repetition of a cheap meme as substitution for critical thought.
No offense, but I typically find that people who say this have never actually read a Superman comic before. Or at the very least, none of the classic arcs or miniseries like All Star, Birthright, For All Seasons, or Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow.
shira
Member
You are thinking of it from the wrong perspective. In terms of sheer exposure to the current 18-35 crowd the biggest body of work is . . . the Smallville tv show.
Suck it comic readers. You have been replaced.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'd argue that and the Justice League/Superman/Batman animated series are where most people aged 18-35 got their conception of what these characters are supposed to be.
shira
Member
I don't understand the complaints about potential slo-mo.
Slow-mo is MEANT for a Superman movie... it can show the true speed and brute strength of every thrown punch or impact.
http://youtu.be/Cl_5UwS57X8?t=1m28s
would you have any objections to seeing something like that on the big screen? If there's one I'm confident of, it's that the action/fighting scenes are going to be amazing
Slow-mo is MEANT for a Superman movie... it can show the true speed and brute strength of every thrown punch or impact.
http://youtu.be/Cl_5UwS57X8?t=1m28s
would you have any objections to seeing something like that on the big screen? If there's one I'm confident of, it's that the action/fighting scenes are going to be amazing
Lionel Mandrake
Member
Ironically, I think a Flash movie would have to be mostly slow-mo.
You should read Busiek's Superman: Secret Identity. It is only four issues and a great story.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Personally, my favorite Superman story ever. Always love reading/hearing about others who have read it and appreciate it.
Secret Identity, For All Seasons, All-Star, and Birthright.
Read all of those and tell me if you find Supes bland/boring.
His characterization in Returns was pretty boring (IMO) but that was a direct copy of Reeves' Superman. As with any of the other heroes, Superman has evolved since then, but that evolution has failed to have been properly adapted on the big screen...til now, I hope.
I tried watching the animated movie and found it to be some of the dumbest shit I have ever seen...maybe I was missing something... but I lost it around the point Superman rebuilt the Ttanic then fought Sampson in an underground lava cave, then the god of death showed up....oh an Lana gets super powers, because why not, and she gets super paranoid because of some cloth....also a giant space creature that eats universes created with a space anvil....wat
krypt0nian
Banned
This. Best Supes story published. Sorry, Morrison. I worship your All-Star, but SI has my heart.
TheKaeptain
Banned
I'm not arguing, you are, but that is your thing. Getting caught up on a single line and going a little pedantic on whomever you're responding to.
Anyways, Woo has never been a big name in America. Even at the time he was making American flicks he wasn't getting that much recognition. The majority of people on the internet and Gaf are going to associate slow-mo with Zack because he uses it more than any other big name director in America. His movies are also somewhat popular. I personally don't like the way he uses it because it always seems like he doesn't know how to build tension so he relies on slo-mo to do the work.
You mean the DCU cartoons right?
enigmatic_alex44
Whenever a game uses "middleware," I expect mediocrity. Just see how poor TLOU looks.
haha your description paints an absolute trainwreck of a film yet leaves me intrigued to the point where I want to see this now!
TheKaeptain
Banned
haha your description paints an absolute trainwreck of a film yet leaves me intrigued to the point where I want to see this now!
Watch Superman vs the Elite. Supes takes on a bunch of Punk Rock Superheroes.
But "Snyder slo-mo" you guys!
Anyway, back on topic, considering Snyder has made better comic book movies than current GAF-god Nolan these news are not so surprising. Ever since Returns came and went with all the impact of a wet fart I've been saying that a honestly great action director, someone with an eye for iconic shots, was needed for Superman. Unless you're willing to go into either Birthright/Red Son or All Star Superman territory Supes is not exactly boring but predictable. You can't have a movie about Superman reacting to the world. The movie has to be about how the world reacts to him.
So, since Superman himself isn't a terribly exciting character the director has to have him doing terribly exciting stuff. And looking iconic while doing so.
Edit: I will not abide people speaking ill of All Star Superman.
shira
Member
Maybe the batman cartoons did right by Batman, but the Superman cartoon did not do as well and the Justice League and JLU didn't really flesh out any Superman storylines - they just used his rogues gallery for the most part.
I think more people know who Tom Welling is compared to say Bruce Timm or George Newbern. There was 10 seasons of Smallvile.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Wow I'm hyped.
When is it coming out in theaters?
I was gonna argue about quality (Supes was really fleshed out) until I realized what you mean. tbqh I thought Superman TAS was just as exposed as Batman TAS.
MisterNegative
Banned
Superman is in no way bland.
Read up "for the man who has everything" and all star superman. Stories that really go into detail about his character i think.
Read up "for the man who has everything" and all star superman. Stories that really go into detail about his character i think.
Unspeakable Evil
Member
Haha wow, this gets truer everyday.
Messypandas
Member
I think Kingdom Come is my favourite personification of Superman. He shows why he's the natural leader of the group without seeming like a goody goody boy scout. And he has a pony tail and beard for a bit.
The thing about Superman to me is that he isn't a very interesting character on his own, but he's a wholly unique character when in big, multi character stories. The ideal of Superman is more important than Superman himself and his character is the only one that can make a story like Kingdom Come work. When he's in a story by himself, he's the flying brick. It's when he's held up against other characters that he shines as a beacon of goodness and morality.
Captain America is the only other major character in Marvel or DC that can fill that kind of role, though I find Cap way more interesting as a solo character.
Captain America is the only other major character in Marvel or DC that can fill that kind of role, though I find Cap way more interesting as a solo character.
Popeye's a much more interesting character than Superman since he's closer to a normal person without his spinach (this varies based on the cartoon, of course) and has a lot of flaws. He's a good character even without his superpowers as he's got whacky outburtsts and sayings. He's got an adopted kid, the love triangle with Olive Oyl/Bluto, etc, quirky friends, a dad, nephews, etc
Superman's much more boring in comparison. Now if Clark Kent is Superman's real personality and the Superman character is an act, then that's a little more interesting.
Thats funny. Guess io9 jumped on the GAF>internet>GAF bandwagon too:
"Man of Steel
Take this with a total grain of salt, but someone claims to have attended a test screening and so decided to post a review of the film, non-disclosure agreements be damned. It's an overwhelmingly positive review, but this could easily be fabricated, or just wildly unrepresentative of the typical reaction to the film. For those interested, the complete post is here." - io9.com
krypt0nian
Banned
I have a clean up rag already picked out.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Holy shit. What blows my mind is the Matrix reference. HAHAHAHAH.
I love how they point out NDA, as if my "review" (more like general feelings about the experience) is anything substantial. I know what I'm allowed to say. It's a good film, not great. And my impressions indicate about as much.
Here's my ranking of it after sitting on it for a while:
1. Batman Begins
2. The Dark Knight
3. Unbreakable
4. The Dark Knight Rises
5. X-Men 2
6. Man of Steel
7. Iron Man
8. The Avengers
My top 5 is pretty solid for me as I've seen the movies enough times (also biased towards X-Men 2, as it was awesome when younger). I don't remember Iron Man that well (been four years since I watched it), so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt over Avengers, which was fun, but ultimately shallow. I do remember having good impressions of Iron Man. I think Iron Man and Man of Steel could be interchangeable for me. I'll have to do a re-watch of each one later in the year to decide which one wins out.
The above are the only good DC/Marvel superhero movies in my eyes. Rest are average or crap. I won't bother including the original Donner Superman because it's a different beast, but also really good for its time. However, my nostalgia blinds me from trying to rank it. It's awesome, and I don't want to really compare it to anything.
Does Blade count? Not really a traditional superhero, but I know he is from Marvel.
Here's my ranking of it after sitting on it for a while:
1. Batman Begins
2. The Dark Knight
3. Unbreakable
4. The Dark Knight Rises
5. X-Men 2
6. Man of Steel
7. Iron Man
8. The Avengers
My top 5 is pretty solid for me as I've seen the movies enough times (also biased towards X-Men 2, as it was awesome when younger). I don't remember Iron Man that well (been four years since I watched it), so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt over Avengers, which was fun, but ultimately shallow. I do remember having good impressions of Iron Man. I think Iron Man and Man of Steel could be interchangeable for me. I'll have to do a re-watch of each one later in the year to decide which one wins out.
The above are the only good DC/Marvel superhero movies in my eyes. Rest are average or crap. I won't bother including the original Donner Superman because it's a different beast, but also really good for its time. However, my nostalgia blinds me from trying to rank it. It's awesome, and I don't want to really compare it to anything.
Does Blade count? Not really a traditional superhero, but I know he is from Marvel.
I think the problem with Superman, and I suppose it's more accurate to say it's my problem with Superman, is that he's so self righteous.
He has a chip on his shoulder, but instead of treating it like a character flaw, and using it to humanize him, they treat it like a virtue. I understand they want to play up the "God among mortals" angle that's inherent to Superman, but that doesn't make for fun watching when he's just so damn smug about being right and good all the time. He's not as humble and full of humility as people think he is, or expect. Because of that, we don't empathize with him the way we empathize with Peter Parker, for example.
Peter has brains up the wazoo. He also has incredible powers. He still can't afford to pay his rent, and is routinely fired by Jonah.
Clark Kent is tall, handsome, muscular, and one of two of the star reporters in Metropolis. Oh, and he's Superman. His personal life, and his superhero life rarely seem to conflict. It's something I think Donner did well in his Superman films, and Reeves made him relatable, as well as powerful.
Superman needs to struggle a bit. And tone down the self-righteous attitude some. I'm definitely interested in Man of Steel, and I want to see Superman fuck up villains, but it would be a real neat bonus if I actually cared about him while he did it.
Why does that matter? Since when I am an authority on other peoples taste? Taste is subjective, and you'll enjoy things for a variety of reasons. I legitimately think it's a better movie, even with some of its flaws. I'm also sure more people would likely agree with that sentiment than not so it's not an out there opinion by any means. A movie that has had general great fan and critical reception isn't middling-average by most accounts. Plus, GAF is not one focused entity. I think there's plenty of people on here who would understand and agree with that assessment.
MisterHero
Super Member
lol the post is attracting crazy hate
The panel someone posted is from Injustice, where he decides to impose his will after 1-2 too many civilian casualties.
Seriously, you just described Batman. Hal Jordan is more uptight than Superman too. He probably doesn't like that the Justice League looks to him for all the answers.figboy79 said:
The panel someone posted is from Injustice, where he decides to impose his will after 1-2 too many civilian casualties.
I just also wanted to note that I've read For All Seasons (loved it), Birthright, and All Star Superman. Those were great stories, but I feel like they are exceptions to the rule when it comes to the characterization and arc of Superman.
I didn't like the Superman vs the Elite movie, honestly. Superman himself was ok in the story, but I felt the Elite were pretty lame and uninteresting.
EDIT: @ Mister. I also have problems with Green Lantern and Batman as well. I tend to have a big problem with most of the DCU in terms of crafting down to earth, likable characters. I'm not even a Marvel fanboy, but I tend to look at what they're doing more than DC these days. I think the big, iconic DC characters all suffer from identity issues. I feel the smaller, B and C tier characters have better arcs and characterization (ie, Booster Gold, Nightwing, Robin, The Flash, etc). I prefer Kyle Rayner or John Stewart as a Lantern over Hal.
I didn't like the Superman vs the Elite movie, honestly. Superman himself was ok in the story, but I felt the Elite were pretty lame and uninteresting.
EDIT: @ Mister. I also have problems with Green Lantern and Batman as well. I tend to have a big problem with most of the DCU in terms of crafting down to earth, likable characters. I'm not even a Marvel fanboy, but I tend to look at what they're doing more than DC these days. I think the big, iconic DC characters all suffer from identity issues. I feel the smaller, B and C tier characters have better arcs and characterization (ie, Booster Gold, Nightwing, Robin, The Flash, etc). I prefer Kyle Rayner or John Stewart as a Lantern over Hal.
I think that's where Man of Steel shines then Fig. They make him relatable. For example, Superman isn't self righteous. I don't even see how they could make this Superman like that from the first movie alone. He has classical elements in there, but he's a conflicted character. He certainly feels different from the Superman in the Justice League cartoons. Cavill really does a stand up job in his performance. There are a few routes to go with him to keep it interesting from a character standpoint. The whole theme of "is the world ready for a being like Superman" isn't finished with Man of Steel.
I thought Elite was just ok... the villain wasn't that good but supes characterization was pretty great. I hated the art though.
I feel like Superman would jive with more people if writers remembered that his story is supposed to be about an outsider who chooses to use his gifts to help people as opposed to some depressing Christ parable about sacrifice and loneliness and blah blah. Those latter portions are elements, certainly, but when you try to make that the whole character, you just make it harder for folks to relate to Superman.
And I'm with Mister: I've always seen Batman as the self-righteous member of the team. Wonder Woman as well, in some of her less than ideal moments.
And I'm with Mister: I've always seen Batman as the self-righteous member of the team. Wonder Woman as well, in some of her less than ideal moments.
Can Crusher
Banned
Wachowski's showed the way, finally someone followed them.
Zoramon089
Banned
Maybe the name Tom Welling but i agree that for most people in that age group their exposure to him was from Justice League and the cartoon. Just look at Green Lantern. A LARGE number of people wondered why he wasn't black when the movie was first revealed
I'm with you. Let the Christ elements (which will undoubtedly be there given who he is) remain subtle and don't be so in-your-face about it like Returns was. I prefer the story of an alien coming onto foreign soil who has to decide what he wants to do with his power - whether that means helping humanity passively, taking on an authoritative figure, or keeping his powers hidden and live normally among humans.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Review has too much senseless hyperbole for me to take it seriously.
Hope the movie's good, though.
Hope the movie's good, though.
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