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[the androgyne]

And people don't understand why a bunch of us are disappointed with it. The thing has better graphics than a PS3 (Wii U says Hi) MAYBE.

Getting a portable Wii U is not exciting and will not justify the move, actually if those games look like they could be running on the Wii U, as a consumer I will be annoyed by the fact that I will need to change the machine only for the sake of changing.

I know what you're saying but... so many PS3/4, 360/XB1 cross platform games... literally ARE running on the last gen. Plus Nintendo's typical art style won't massively benefit from superior hardware. Then you have things like Mario Maker, where it's going to look nigh on identical. What i'm saying is, you better get used to it regardless of what the hardware can do, or start to appreciate that it'll be go-anywhere.

 

[Plinko]

What if I don't care about handhelds? What if I want to only play the newest Nintendo games?

The portion about SCDs then would apply.

Wasn't the gameboy the first handheld that you already could connect to a tv with an extra cable? I remember playing some games for it on tv.

You're probably thinking of Super Gameboy, a cartridge attachment for Super Nintendo that allowed you to play GB games on TV.

 

[Hakai]

The portion about SCDs then would apply.



You're probably thinking of Super Gameboy, a cartridge attachment for Super Nintendo that allowed you to play GB games on TV.

You don't know that and the extent it would actually make a difference.

 

[Aldric]

And people don't understand why a bunch of us are disappointed with it. The thing has better graphics than a PS3 (Wii U says Hi) MAYBE.

Getting a portable Wii U is not exciting and will not justify the move, actually if those games look like they could be running on the Wii U, as a consumer I will be annoyed by the fact that I will need to change the machine only for the sake of changing.

Yeah, really not interested in playing barely Wii U level games for another 5 years or however long this thing is supposed to last. l sincerely hope this can do better graphically than "better than PS3" or else l'm out.

 

[Kurt]

You're probably thinking of Super Gameboy, a cartridge attachment for Super Nintendo that allowed you to play GB games on TV.

Nope i did own one. But i was more talking about the Nintendo Kiosk

 

[Plinko]

You don't know that and the extent it would actually make a difference.

They haven't specifically stated this, but the patent itself is specifically for boosting the power of the system by utilizing outside sources.

Plus, they already have a history of add-ons that boost the power of a system (N64 RAM expansion). Wouldn't at all be a surprise to see this.

 

[Darryl]

Did we consider this to be a home console, or a hybrid home console?

Well, I didn't.

If the dock does something substantial in terms of boosting the machine's power, then I'll accept it as a hybrid. If not I think it is just a slightly qualified retreat from the home space.

the issues I see with this are the controller issue (not included) and the cord issue (intrusive, not included). it's also probably not designed from a software perspective to be used like this (can a wireless controller boot the console?)

it's all stuff this console will probably fix. there wasn't anything crazy about them repackaging the vita into the vita tv and replacing the handheld with a box and controller. I wouldn't argue that thing wasn't a home console. it's a matter of convenience

 

[gofreak]

That doesn't come with any detachable parts, unless you're really forceful.

Rather irrelevant to its credentials as a home machine when a full, detached home controller can be paired. It's rather minor to me to NX's credentials as a home machine also, at least vs what the dock may offer.

2 in 1 laptops-tablets are often called hybrids and I am bewildered that anyone is objecting to the term for this proposed device.

We can call it a hybrid, but in this case, an iPad is a hybrid portable/tv machine, a PSP Go is, an iPhone... the label becomes a bit meaningless. If the dock actually turns it into something more than can be handled in those kinds of form factors though, into something more like a TV box with the advantages that form can confer, then I think it will be a new kind of hybrid of a different sort to those though. We'll see.

 

[Hakai]

They haven't specifically stated this, but the patent itself is specifically for boosting the power of the system by utilizing outside sources.

Plus, they already have a history of add-ons that boost the power of a system (N64 RAM expansion). Wouldn't at all be a surprise to see this.

It won't be a surprise but I wouldn't take it for granted as well.

 

[Neoleo2143]

Did we consider this to be a home console, or a hybrid home console?

Well, I didn't.

If the dock does something substantial in terms of boosting the machine's power, then I'll accept it as a hybrid. If not I think it is just a slightly qualified retreat from the home space.

The arguement is simple, the PSP cannot run games like that of the PS3. Console experiences can be provided by the NX as evidenced by Zelda:BoTW. Thus the experience provided by the NX is a hybrid one, as you can get both console type experiences and handheld type experiences.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Rather irrelevant to its credentials as a home machine when a full, detached home controller can be paired. It's rather minor to me to NX's credentials as a home machine also, at least vs what the dock may offer.



We can call it a hybrid, but in this case, an iPad is a hybrid portable/tv machine, a PSP Go is, an iPhone... the label becomes a bit meaningless. If the dock actually turns it into something more than can be handled in those kinds of form factors though, into something more like a TV box with the advantages that form can confer, then I think it will be a new kind of hybrid of a different sort to those though.

Functionally what is the difference

 

[bs135]

exactly.

this thing is their new handheld, and it happens to have tv out. they aren't making a console successor to the wii u.

and that's cool. i guess.

This is my thought on it as well. And ultimately I believe the games that will be made for the NX will be primarily handheld and mobile budget games because of it.

 

[ombz]

Wasn't the gameboy the first handheld that you already could connect to a tv with an extra cable? I remember playing some games for it on tv.

(edit : i'm not talking about the snes emulator card which i owned.)

I forgot about this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Boy_Player

I remember wanting one but never got it.

 

[Graphics Horse]

To put it another way the Vita is a handheld.
The Vita TV is a home console.
The Vita with TV out would be IMO a handheld with TV out.
The theoretical Vita which you could snap in half and turn into a Vita TV + handheld controller would be, unquestionably, a handheld-home console hybrid.

 

[EVH]

Of course this is a hybrid. A Zelda main game that is for home console is going to come out in it and with improved visuals, so I think that defines the concept.

 

[Kurt]

I forgot about this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Boy_Player

I remember wanting one but never got it.

Yep remember that one.

Found one

The sign says "Now you are playing with portable power"
Never knew that this was a 'thing'

 

[Alebrije]

Could the dock be just an add on?

I mean NX is portable at 200-250 US but still you can connect the NX to a tv an detach controls

Get dock separately by 50-100 US for improved graphics

Get Nintendo controller separately

Get external hard disk separately

etc

I mean you can custom NX as you wish

 

[Samemind]

I'm not the only one who's thinking it's a given that more than two controllers could be paired to a single NX, right?

 

[gutter_trash]

will the dock have an HDD for people who want to buy games digitally?

 

[March of the Crabs]

I'm not the only one who's thinking it's a given that more than two controllers could be paired to a single NX, right?

I would hope so! The end of 4 player Nintendo would bum me out.

 

[Mpl90]

To be honest, that extract from MCV's article seems to be (apparently) a bit in contrast with what Emily, OsirisBlack and Shocking Alberto reported about its power / its possibility of getting PS4/One ports, alongisde all the different analysis already layed out here on GAF. Also, it's based on someone else's impression, not a precise specs analysis, so I'm not completely convinced by it.

 

[Haunted]

They'll need to show some damn convincing stuff for the dock. Like, a huge upgrade to what you'll see on the handheld screen.

Even then, people are excited to have Nintendo's software lineup coming together, but I don't think that's a strength. Handheld games should have different design priorities compared to big-screen gaming.

Ouya taught us that people don't just want to play games designed for handhelds blown up on the TV.

The Vita taught us that people aren't looking for full-fledged, big budget games that look great... on their tiny handheld screens.


I'm curious to see how Nintendo plans to circumvent both of these pitfalls with their hybrid system. While others say it could be used to capture the best of both worlds, I can easily picture it managing neither.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I'm not the only one who's thinking it's a given that more than two controllers could be paired to a single NX, right?

Would be pretty tragic if not when Smash Bros is rumoured, IMO. I think at least 4p should be expected.

 

[bs135]

If the dock boosts the abilities of the NX in a meaningful way then I like it. If it doesn't, then we are going to get handheld quality gaming on a TV for the home console. In my mind this a great thing for Nintendo handheld fans, but a big loss for the console fans.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

Did we consider this to be a home console, or a hybrid home console?

Well, I didn't.

If the dock does something substantial in terms of boosting the machine's power, then I'll accept it as a hybrid. If not I think it is just a slightly qualified retreat from the home space.

Does the PSP/Vita accept multiple controllers on the same unit? I don't know if that would be enough to qualify, but one difference here is that you'll likely be able to play 4 player Smash over a single docked unit.

 

[Okami Haundo]

To put it another way the Vita is a handheld.
The Vita TV is a home console.
The Vita with TV out would be IMO a handheld with TV out.
The theoretical Vita which you could snap in half and turn into a Vita TV + handheld controller would be, unquestionably, a handheld-home console hybrid.

I think the problem stems from what form factor you approach as the main focus. Those who think the NX will be a handheld that connects to your TV are more likely to go with the "Vita with HDMI" argument. Those who think NX will be a console with the option of using it as a handheld (albeit with some sacrifices) are more likely to call it a hybrid. We won't know for sure until Nintendo unveils the system, but I know I fall into the latter camp.

 

[Hakai]

To be honest, that extract from MCV's article seems to be (apparently) a bit in contrast with what Emily, OsirisBlack and Shocking Alberto reported about its power / its possibility of getting PS4/One ports, alongisde all the different analysis already layed out here on GAF. Also, it's based on someone else's impression, not a precise specs analysis, so I'm not completely convinced by it.

The whole portable thing with Tegra X1 goes against that.

 

[Samemind]

I would hope so! The end of 4 player Nintendo would bum me out.

Would be pretty tragic if not when Smash Bros is rumoured, IMO. I think at least 4p should be expected.

Just because it confused me when people earlier were having a conversation about how controllers sold separately could lead to confusion for consumers if they're only there to replace damaged parts. It just seemed like a forgone conclusion that there will be controllers sold separately for more 3p+ action.

 

[gofreak]

Functionally what is the difference

The difference is, if the dock does nothing substantial, the machine is being defined by its portability in very fundamental ways. It is a portable machine that can be played on a TV, but its potential is fundamentally limited and defined by the portable form factor. Whether the dock comes as standard or no, seperate controllers as standard or no, it's still at its base a portable machine that just so happens can hook up to a TV - really no more or less than those other examples cited.

A home machine can go beyond that with a non-portable form factor.

Now we can argue that it's a long time since Nintendo's exploited what a home form factor can allow. They've been attracted to small, low power boxes that don't lean at all on what one could get away with in a TV box in terms of die sizes, heat etc. That is true. But if NX is what is described here and if the dock is nothing but a pass-through, then its really a fairly explicit abandonment of the home unit form factor.

If the dock does do something more in terms of boosting it up to 'modern' home console standards, then there is a difference - it can act as both a portable, with the advantages of portable, or as a home machine, with the advantages of a home machine form factor. That would be a true hybrid.

If it doesn't, it's not. Its a portable that can offer a compromised experience on your TV vs a home console. Lip service to the form.

We'll see.

 

[balohna]

will the dock have an HDD for people who want to buy games digitally?

It would be cool if they did this and had a relatively painless transfer solution for swapping in and out games stored on the portable storage.

 

[Hakai]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/nintendo-begins-distributing-software-kit-for-new-nx-platform-1444996588.

Original article but here is the thing. Most people backed them and said their "sources" were saying the same thing. I'm just going to wait and stay optimistic. September is not that far away.

Yeah, the weird part is that they point out that there is a console unit, not a dock! So weird.

 

[Easy_D]

I think a mix of the Vita and DS Lite would look cool.

Hopefully they won't build another fisher price tablet, but some really good looking hardware.

That's how i hope it will look like:

Yeah, I like the bottom half of a DS Lite look.

 

[kraspkibble]

what do we think the resolution of the screen is going to be? surely it needs to be at least 720p which i think most games ran at on Wii U. then when you output it to TV it could go to 900/1080p.

I just hope the screen isn't really bad but if the 3DS/wii u gamepad is anything to go by then it will.

 

[bs135]

Assuming the dock does nothing to boost the abilities of the NX, then the hardware is constrained by the requirements of a handheld. Which means the software will also be similarly constrained. Console games will be compromised because of these requirements. One need simply look at how Smash Brothers on the Wii U was gimped because of the 3DS version as the perfect example.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The difference is, if the dock does nothing substantial, the machine is being defined by its portability in very fundamental ways. It is a portable machine that can be played on a TV, but its potential is fundamentally limited and defined by the portable form factor. Whether the dock comes as standard or no, seperate controllers as standard or no, it's still at its base a portable machine that just so happens can hook up to a TV - really no more or less than those other examples cited.

A home machine can go beyond that with a non-portable form factor.

Now we can argue that it's a long time since Nintendo's exploited what a home form factor can allow. They've been attracted to small, low power boxes that don't lean at all on what one could get away with in a TV box in terms of die sizes, heat etc. That is true. But if NX is what is described here and if the dock is nothing but a pass-through, then its really a fairly explicit abandonment of the home unit form factor.

If the dock does do something more in terms of boosting it up to 'modern' home console standards, then there is a difference - it can act as both a portable, with the advantages of portable, or as a home machine, with the advantages of a home machine form factor. That would be a true hybrid.

If it doesn't, it's not. Its a portable that can offer a compromised experience on your TV vs a home console. Lip service to the form.

We'll see.

Okay. Why does any of that matter, though.

 

[Neoleo2143]

Assuming the dock does nothing to boost the abilities of the NX, then the hardware is constrained by the requirements of a handheld. Which means the software will also be similarly constrained. Console games will be compromised because of these requirements. One need simply look at how Smash Brothers on the Wii U was gimped because of the 3DS version as the perfect example.

So, not much at all? Negligible to the point of ignoring the point? Also you miss the point that the handheld portion of the device is more powerful than the Wii u presumably. Compromises in the vein you speak about don't make sense.

 

[Enduin]

I came up with an idea of how to implement shoulder buttons (L/R) for both configurations while mantaining symmetry and ergonomics by adding a protective rim around the unit wich would hide the buttons and obviously protect the system from falls. I would like to know your opinion about it. And man, what a ride! We are pretty much designing a system now and I am willing to bet NX it is going to end up being nothing like it.

Why not have proper triggers?

Instead of having LZ/RZ buttons on the screen portion in hard to reach and uncomfortable places, why not have them be like the B trigger button from the Wii-Mote on the underside of the controller. You could still retain the L/R positioning when the controllers are detached but you would gain proper triggers and more comfortable and ergonomic feeling when using the system as a handheld. You'd also gain a Z button when using the controllers on their own.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Assuming the dock does nothing to boost the abilities of the NX, then the hardware is constrained by the requirements of a handheld. Which means the software will also be similarly constrained. Console games will be compromised because of these requirements. One need simply look at how Smash Brothers on the Wii U was gimped because of the 3DS version as the perfect example.

Or like how PC games are gimped by consoles.

 

[Father_Brain]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/nintendo-begins-distributing-software-kit-for-new-nx-platform-1444996588.

Original article but here is the thing. Most people backed them and said their "sources" were saying the same thing. I'm just going to wait and stay optimistic. September is not that far away.

Yeah, the weird part is that they point out that there is a console unit, not a dock! So weird.

Apparently, you missed that the very same WSJ reporter behind that story reported yesterday that NX is a hybrid.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/nintendo-swings-to-loss-1469604309

 

[Neoxon]

So, not much at all?

They can't be overly ambitious with game concepts (Olimar has his Pikmin count cut in half, the Ice Climbers were cut entirely, etc.).

 

[bs135]

So, not much at all?

http://gamerant.com/super-smash-bros-wii-u-3ds-why-ice-climbers-cut/

"Sakurai confirmed that he was forced to cut the adorable pairing of Popo and Nana because of the technical limitations of the Nintendo 3DS hardware. Even more tragically for fans of the characters is that the team behind Super Smash Bros. had the fighters up and running on the Wii U version of the game, but seemingly dropped them with the intent of having the same roster across both platforms."

 

[gofreak]

Okay. Why does any of that matter, though.

I guess if you were hoping for a modern, powerful Nintendo console, it matters. It's a bit sad to me if the hope of that is gone for good. What can I say.

I mean I think given Nintendo's position, this move makes total sense. They've been struggling to support both pillars well. They've some time ago abandoned many of the advantages a home unit can confer. Why not consolidate behind the stronger denominator here?

But it's a pretty momentous, and I guess for some of us, pretty disappointing move. Insisting this is still a home-unit play as much as a portable one feels like a 'emperor's new console' glossing-over of what's really going on.

That is, IF the dock is nothing much...

 

[Father_Brain]

To be honest, that extract from MCV's article seems to be (apparently) a bit in contrast with what Emily, OsirisBlack and Shocking Alberto reported about its power / its possibility of getting PS4/One ports, alongisde all the different analysis already layed out here on GAF. Also, it's based on someone else's impression, not a precise specs analysis, so I'm not completely convinced by it.

I don't recall what exactly the other two said about PS4/XB1 ports being easy, but I'm going to guess that OsirisBlack's source was just misinformed. Even legit insiders can't get it right 100% of the time.

 

[Neoleo2143]

They can't be overly ambitious with game concepts (Olimar has his Pikmin count cut in half, the Ice Climbers were cut entirely, etc.).

But the device can run Zelda:BoTW presumably with no compromise and likely even a slight upgrade. It's presumably more powerful than the Wii U. The constraints at this point are hypothetical because we aren't talking about a device that is nearly as weak as the 3DS.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I guess if you were hoping for a modern, powerful Nintendo console, it matters. It's a bit sad to me if the hope of that is gone for good. What can I say.

I mean I think given Nintendo's position, this move makes total sense. They've been struggling to support both pillars well. They've some time ago abandoned many of the advantages a home unit can confer. Why not consolidate behind the stronger denominator here.

But it's a pretty momentous, and I guess for some of us, pretty disappointing move.

But by the same logic, didn't they get out of the console business with the Wii

 

[Subaru]

http://gamerant.com/super-smash-bros-wii-u-3ds-why-ice-climbers-cut/

"Sakurai confirmed that he was forced to cut the adorable pairing of Popo and Nana because of the technical limitations of the Nintendo 3DS hardware. Even more tragically for fans of the characters is that the team behind Super Smash Bros. had the fighters up and running on the Wii U version of the game, but seemingly dropped them with the intent of having the same roster across both platforms."

This was before the 8-brawl mode was announced. I don't know, maybe they could ruin 60fps on the 8-brawl? (16 characters on screen + items etc)

 

[mikeyvids]

It would be cool if they did this and had a relatively painless transfer solution for swapping in and out games stored on the portable storage.

I really hope they have a unified account system with game sharing. At least have the dock hold a master account you have anyone in household with NX handheld to sync with every X amount of days. This could allow families to purchase initial game and additional download copies of game for each NX handhelds in household at say $9.99/ea or part of some monthly account subscription.

 

[Sadist]

"But it can connect to a tv"

Doesn't count!

That's some weird stuff man.

 

[Fitts]

Straight up: I don't want to have to feel like I'm paying for a display/screen that I'll never use. That was a big reason why I felt the Wii U was a poor value and I ended up selling mine the moment I didn't see any games I was interested in on the horizon. I just want to play on my TV and have no interest in portability.

 

[TLZ]

A portable with graphics better than PS3 and a possible $149-$199 pricepoint is disappointing? Sorry--it's a beast of a handheld. A beast. I'll take that any day. Sorry--If you want a PS4-level handheld, be ready to pay $300 at least and deal with potential overheating issues.

As for the home portion of it, if the SCD patent stays true, they could easily upgrade the power of the home console with future iterations.

Dude. You keep thinking portable. We keep thinking home console. Not the same!

The portion about SCDs then would apply..

They haven't specifically stated this, but the patent itself is specifically for boosting the power of the system by utilizing outside sources.

Plus, they already have a history of add-ons that boost the power of a system (N64 RAM expansion). Wouldn't at all be a surprise to see this.

You can't just promise us something that wasn't mentioned anywhere. There are a million patents that never go through. C'mon. And you're telling us to look to the N64 for confirmation, really? :/

The arguement is simple, the PSP cannot run games like that of the PS3. Console experiences can be provided by the NX as evidenced by Zelda:BoTW. Thus the experience provided by the NX is a hybrid one, as you can get both console type experiences and handheld type experiences.

See what you did there? You're doing wrong comparisons. The PSP was released 4 years after the PS2, and it produced almost PS2 like gfx and not PS3 like gfx. The NX handheld is being released 4+ years after the Wii U, and will play Wii U like (Zelda BoTW) gfx and not Neo like (or NX Fantasy like KingSnake would call it) gfx. We, home console consumers, do not want portable like gfx on a home console. We do not want a Wii U again 4+ years after the Wii U and be stuck with it for another 4-5 years. That is our complaint that some portable consumers don't seem to be getting. You're doing the wrong comparisons.

Yes I would love to have the portable NX with Wii U like gfx. No I would not want to have a new Nintendo home console with Wii U like gfx. That is all.